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Another Look at Conserve MPFollow

#1 Aug 04 2005 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Introduction

After reading through the threads in the tome about Conserve MP, my general impression was that we still did not have enough information about this trait to understand how it really works. So I have decided to do some testing and compile the results here.

My goals are to determine a baseline profile for Conserve MP activation (how often, how much) and to determine how the "Conserve MP +X" stat on various equipment alters this profile. I am only interested in drawing statistically sound conclusions.

Like some of the previous studies on this trait, I cast the same spell many times. I chose to use Cure III for the first batch. The intent was to provide sufficient resolution (costs enough MP) to verify that activation is in n/16 amounts (previously asserted by others who have studied this) and be able to recast quickly (I don't have all day to sit around casting on myself). I did the casting on various days (excluding light and dark days) and various moon phases. I faced north for all casts (I may repeat facing Northeast). I did 500 casts while wearing no body armor. I did 500 additional casts while wearing my Igqira Weskit (Conserve MP +2). Other equipment was kept the same. I was level 73-74 BLM/WHM while doing this.

Update: Added another data set as 75BLM wearing Igqira Weskit and Water Ring (conserve MP +15 on Watersday) for a total of Conserve MP +17. All casts were performed on Watersday, of course. Also added adjusted percent saved calculation (see below).


Summary of the Results:

No Body Armor
Casts: 
Cost	#	% 
46	375	75.0 
43	19	3.8 
40	13	2.6 
37	25	5.0	 
34	17	3.4 
31	13	2.6 
28	17	3.4	 
25	8	1.6 
23	13	2.6

Totals: 
Casts           500 
Nominal MP      23000 
Actual MP       21468 
Pct. saved      6.66 
Adj. pct. saved 6.44

Igqira Weskit
Casts: 
Cost	#	% 
46	394	78.8	 
43	12	2.4 
40	11	2.2 
37	13	2.6		 
34	11	2.2 
31	10	2.0 
28	14	2.8 
25	20	4.0 
23	15	3.0

Totals: 
Casts           500 
Nominal MP      23000 
Actual MP       21482 
Pct. saved      6.60 
Adj. pct. saved 6.39

Igqira Weskit + Water Ring
Casts: 
Cost	#	% 
46	288	57.6 
43	29	5.8 
40	29	5.8 
37	38	7.6		 
34	23	4.6 
31	31	6.2 
28	22	4.4 
25	22	4.4 
23	18	3.6

Totals: 
Casts           500 
Nominal MP      23000 
Actual MP       20384 
Pct. saved      11.37 
Adj. pct. saved 10.98


Observations
A statistical analysis of the numbers has not yet been done, but there is one thing that sticks out: The difference in actual MP saved between the weskit and nothing is very, very small. In fact, I spent 14 MP more wearing the weskit than I did without it. Yay.

Although I disagree with some of his analysis, if you look at SirJac's Post, these results are comparable with his.

Update: With the addition of the Water Ring, there is a definate increase in both the number of times that Conserve activates and the total MP saved. By casual inspection, it doesn't appear that there is a huge difference in the relative distribution among the various amounts of MP saved per cast.

It has also been noted that rounding down occurs when the spell cost is not a multiple of 16. This results in slightly inflated conserve percentages, the amount of which will vary in practice depending on the actual spell used. I have added an "adjusted" percentage which corrects for this rounding.

Conclusions
As expected, actual MP costs are represented as the integer part of n/16 * nominal cost, where 8 <= n <= 16.

Lv 73-74 BLM/WHM can expect around 6.6% baseline reduction in MP actually used over the long term.

If the bottom line difference is not statistically significant over the course of 500 casts, then it is fair to say that the Conserve MP +2 bonus on the weskit has no practical impact upon gameplay.

Update: It appears that the primary mechanism of the +Conserve MP stat is an increase to the frequency with which casting cost is reduced, rather than a change to the amount that is reduced with each cast.


Caveats
It is entirely possible that there are variables that I have not sufficiently accounted for.


Future Plans
Repeat facing different directions.
Repeat using other spells.
Repeat using baseline equipment on one day only.

I will post updates here as I get them (more data, more detailed analysis, etc.).

Edited, Wed Feb 15 14:23:20 2006 by VxSote
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Another Look at Conserve MP
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#2 Aug 04 2005 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Excellent, but if I could suggest, most of our "endgame" spells cost at least close to 200 mp to cast, which is a significant amount more than the cost of cure III. Perhaps a test using higher cost spells would be a better way to determine it's usefulness, despite being quite a bit harder to test.
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#3 Aug 04 2005 at 5:31 PM Rating: Default
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Cliffnote: Conserve MP+ is a placebo.

Rostrum Pumps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorcerer's Sabots.
#4 Aug 04 2005 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Nice study, I'm glad someone has the patience to conduct things like this.

I have to say overall, Ive been pretty unimpressed with conserve mp+ gear. For the last 3-4 months, Ive had a pair of Igqira Huraches which have mp conserve +4. Over that 4 months Ive gotten about 40 merits duoing with a blm buddy of mine who was only using errant pigaches. Through all that time I never noticed a significant difference in mp useage between the two of us. Our mp after battles would always be about even. We are usually casting the exact same spells gravity, drain, thunder 4 and blizzard 4.

We now both use a pair of Rostrom pumps, and I havent noticed any differences in mp useage when xping with him. Strangely enough though, in level capped areas, like riverine site Bo1 if Im using duende cotaherie which has the same +4 mp conserve and hes not, the differnces are pretty obvious. The only thing I can think of to explain that is, if were in a capped area like that, we tend to use freeze alot. Maybe the trait kicks in more often on larger mp cost spells?

Your findings seem to back up what Ive noticed, that for the most part the extra +conserve doesnt do very much. I'm curious however due to my own experiences if the results might be different using larger mp cost spells?
#5 Aug 04 2005 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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MissIivil wrote:
Excellent, but if I could suggest, most of our "endgame" spells cost at least close to 200 mp to cast, which is a significant amount more than the cost of cure III. Perhaps a test using higher cost spells would be a better way to determine it's usefulness, despite being quite a bit harder to test.


Well, conserve (from all data collected so far) occurs in n/16 percentage increments, and I was working under the assumption that the activation profile is independant of the nominal spell cost or spell type, which would mean that these results are directly applicable to all spells a blm might use.

Comparison with SirJac's test (using warp) seems to support my assumptions here, but they could still be wrong. I'll keep my eye out for any evidence of this, but at the moment I don't anticipate directly testing for conserve versus spell cost, or testing with hugely expensive spells.
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VxSote: "He Who Stands in Smoking Crater"
BLM, WHM, RNG, RDM, SCH, NIN 99 -- Fenrir (Unicorn) -- Gold 100+, Synergy 80, all subs 60+.
Another Look at Conserve MP
Leader, Screwdriver Dynamis Linkshell
#6 Oct 14 2005 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Updated the original post with data from using a Water Ring. Looks like we finally have some evidence as to how the +Conserve MP stat affects the activation of the ability.

Edited, Fri Oct 14 11:33:45 2005 by VxSote
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VxSote: "He Who Stands in Smoking Crater"
BLM, WHM, RNG, RDM, SCH, NIN 99 -- Fenrir (Unicorn) -- Gold 100+, Synergy 80, all subs 60+.
Another Look at Conserve MP
Leader, Screwdriver Dynamis Linkshell
#7 Jan 21 2007 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
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People look at the Igqira feet and ohhh at the conserve mp... i've read enough about conserve mp to know that the int and mab from yigit feet save you more mp than the conserve mp from Huraches. But what most people look over is that dark+ skill on then; funny thing, thats were you save mp: if you fight mobs with mp the +dark will give you better aspirs. So stop talking smack about the feet with the most dark skill cause you can always swap em in your dark+ equip macro, and theyll save you mp. I wish i had a pair to add to my collection of dark+ equip :(
#8 Jan 22 2007 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Cliffnote: Conserve MP+ is a placebo.
Rostrum Pumps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorcerer's Sabots.

Yep, a completely insignificant amount of Fast Cast is enormously better than completely insignificant amount of Conserve MP. >.>
#9 Jan 22 2007 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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He's probably thinking of the +1 Int. Now rostrum pumps vs. sorc sabots+1 is a whole different story.

But yeah, the whole sorc sabot vs rostrum pump debate is an argument of inconsequentiality.


Edited, Jan 22nd 2007 2:49pm by Jammma
#10 Jan 23 2007 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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bah Yigits are better... he just got them today... im not doing lebros cavern for a looooooong time.
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#11 Jan 24 2007 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Yep, a completely insignificant amount of Fast Cast is enormously better than completely insignificant amount of Conserve MP. >.>


I find the fast cast & mp much more significant than the conserve mp. Especially when you stack the various types of fastcast gear + sub rdm. It might not be a significant difference if you have no other fastcast gear to put with it, but my cast time on my primary blm vs my 2boxed blm is nearly a 25% difference. at about 52% into the cast time, I can take off running and the nuke goes through in mid run, preventing me from getting slapped by a mob while soloing. The same is not true for the blm i control that doesn't have so much fastcast.

Not a big deal for xp soloing mobs, but a HUGE deal for limbus soloing mobs... especially the behemoths and KB in apollyon.

Edited, Jan 24th 2007 12:10pm by xXxNaobixXx
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#12 Jan 24 2007 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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This is, frankly, awesome. It's so awesome I didn't notice it's a necropost. ^.^ But I'm still glad I read it! Posthumous rateup.
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