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genie vs royal redFollow

#1 Apr 11 2009 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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so, anyone done any tests or have any thoughts on the genie weskit vs the royal red, aug with mab +4 and magic acc +4?
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#2 Apr 11 2009 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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There was a lot of math run here:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=3;mid=1237871104134569035;num=23;page=1

General consensus seems to be that it's a little better than Igqira Weskit and a little worse than Genie Weskit.
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#3 Apr 12 2009 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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thx for the link, interesting read. im now staring at the coffer trying to figure out what augments to put on it. kinda want to put mab and mag acc on it anyway and test it, but ill probably put mag acc and fast cast for stun/aspir/drain. only reason im still hesitant is when i get nashira manteel for my dark spells then this piece gets reduced to a stun piece only...seems kind of a waste....idk wtf to do here...guess i'll keep staring at this **** coffer
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#4 Apr 12 2009 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
royal redingote: O

i'll do some testing tomorrow sometime
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#5 Apr 12 2009 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
thx for the link, interesting read. Im now staring at the coffer trying to figure out what augments to put on it. kinda want to put mab and mag acc on it anyway and test it, but ill probably put mag acc and fast cast for stun/aspir/drain. only reason im still hesitant is when i get nashira manteel for my dark spells then this piece gets reduced to a stun piece only...seems kind of a waste....idk wtf to do here...guess I'll keep staring at this **** coffer

Do yourself a favor and make your life easier on you. Just ask yourself this, do you have a Genie weskit? If no, then get the mab and mag acc. If money is no issue then probably get the weskit, but honestly the difference is rather small.

Btw, if ppl are asking if its worth getting this in hopes of beating a Genie, generally the answer is going to be no. In order to be dealing damage in this body to be able to out perform a Genie requires you to have all your best pieces already. If you have all the best pieces already, majority of the time youll already have a Genie/morrigan body. If you have all the best pieces (minus the body pieces, and full morri set aside) a blm can achieve, than these 2 pieces will be performing about identical with about a 1% difference in parsing at the most going to either body. If this isnt the case and your gear is a bit nq , then its just going to be in between NQ and HQ weskits.

And as far as stun pieces, if you are getting a nash body piece, Id stick with the nash body over this probably. Thats just my opinion. The fast cast is probably about the same as the haste on it if not a bit slower. The nash has more accuracy both from dark skill and macc so it wins there. The only reason to want this body for stun over nash would be if you need your stun to go off much faster than normal. Stun is pretty instant imo, Ive never missed a stun on khim/tia/cerb and I dont really go all out on the fast cast for blm. If anything my beef for stun is just getting the recast timer down as much as possible and both bodies do that, imo the nash should get it down to about the same if not more, with more acc, and also be handy for drain/aspir.
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#6 Apr 13 2009 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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nice bit of advice in there, appreciate it, thx.
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#7 Apr 13 2009 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
tried redingote (4/4 mab macc) vs nq weskit.......

5-10 dmg increase per spell when using obi/ugg/sorc pants vs puddings

used jupiter bugard +1 phatom tath af+1 hat moldy/novio sorc tamas zenith goliard boots mahatma slops ixion cape

trying to finally grab yigit feet, but as you can see, the comparison is minimal at best and i'm hoping it's usefullness on sch and rdm fares better

i'll use it for blm for the time being

(will be testing w/a friend's genie weskit soon)
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#8 Apr 13 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
tested nukes with redingote genie and mahatma bodies

other gear

hq staves
bugard +1
phantom tath
moldy/novio
enlightened/ugg
AF+1
zenith mitts
tamas/sorc
ixion cape
obi matching day
relic legs
goliard clogs

on puddings, it's too close to call

on AM 2 genie won by 10 dmg

on tier IVs redingote beat genie by 3 dmg mahatma barely beat redingote
(need to verify this a lil more)

on tier 1-3 mahatma beat both by 1-15dmg

testing of ice/thunder vs other elements will yield different results based on base dmg of each, and merits


bottom line; if you've got genie weskit or mahatma body, and somewhere else to updgrade (another job) upgrade something else first, not blm.

i'll prolly run some testing on rdm and sch nukes b4 i finally decide what to do with this armor
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Obi:8/8 Novio\a:O Nashira:4/5 H.Gaiters: O
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#9 Apr 13 2009 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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Zacheus wrote:
hq staves
bugard +1
phantom tath
moldy/novio
enlightened/ugg
AF+1
zenith mitts
tamas/sorc
ixion cape
obi matching day
relic legs
goliard clogs

Under these conditions, from the numbers I did, redingote will beat out genie on tierIVs, because as I stated on the other thread, once you can push over 40+ MAB(not including traits) this body will over take Genie.

Anyway you could do your tests again w/o the latents. No ugg/relic pants/obi. Then see the difference. I believe its either 1-2points under Genie or about the same(considering Novio would make them about even maybe).

Its nice to know about the AM2s, I didnt calculate those as most of the spells well be casting would be TierIVs. For TierIII and lower, Id figure maha body would win as tierIII and under favor int more.

Did you make sure the puddings that you did the tests on were of same lv?
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#10 Apr 14 2009 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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For a non taru, is this a good piece for the 320/120 set?

I'm a hume with 8/8MP, 8/8 Elemental, 2/5 INT merits (so far). I need to get home and try it but it seems like a good piece for that set, especially if like me you have af+1 hands and sorc hat?

I don't have a problem getting the skill, it's the INT. But errant body seems overkill. Is my thinking wrong?

I'm not overwhelmed with this piece to be honest, seems like a minor upgrade. Wondering if I should just give in and go for a COR body when my COR hits 75.

Edited, Apr 14th 2009 10:05am by eldelphia
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#11 Apr 14 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Eldelphia wrote:
For a non taru, is this a good piece for the 320/120 set?

I'm a hume with 8/8MP, 8/8 Elemental, 2/5 INT merits (so far). I need to get home and try it but it seems like a good piece for that set, especially if like me you have af+1 hands and sorc hat?

I don't have a problem getting the skill, it's the INT. But errant body seems overkill. Is my thinking wrong?

I'm not overwhelmed with this piece to be honest, seems like a minor upgrade. Wondering if I should just give in and go for a COR body when my COR hits 75.

What does your current setup look like now? Are you using this only for HNM/sky mobs?(hence 320/120) or exp aswell?
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#12 Apr 14 2009 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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eldelphia wrote:
For a non taru, is this a good piece for the 320/120 set?

I don't have a problem getting the skill, it's the INT. But errant body seems overkill. Is my thinking wrong?

It's wrong, but probably not for the reasons you expect. 320/120 is a myth. Resists don't magically become less when you hit 320 skill. 120 INT is only meaningful if you're fighting a mob with 110 INT. 320/120 is like a bad edition of "BLM for dummies", and it's time people stop citing it.

When fighting a resistant mob, you need to maximize your equivalent magic accuracy. 1 skill gives magic acc. 1 INT gives 1 magic acc, but only until your int = mob int +10; after that, 1 INT gives 0.5 magic acc. Do not remove skill for an amount of INT that gives less accuracy, unless we're talking about something significant. 8 INT from mahat. pants, for example, is preferred over the 5 skill from druid's slops. In the worst case, you'll lose 1% magic hit rate, but you should gain ~2-3% in raw damage from the INT (plus -enmity is good).

The details of Genie vs. ACP were pretty thoroughly covered in the previous thread, and it's basically a toss-up.

Edited, Apr 14th 2009 12:14pm by VxSote
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#13 Apr 15 2009 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's wrong, but probably not for the reasons you expect. 320/120 is a myth. Resists don't magically become less when you hit 320 skill. 120 INT is only meaningful if you're fighting a mob with 110 INT. 320/120 is like a bad edition of "BLM for dummies", and it's time people stop citing it.

When fighting a resistant mob, you need to maximize your equivalent magic accuracy. 1 skill gives magic acc. 1 INT gives 1 magic acc, but only until your int = mob int +10; after that, 1 INT gives 0.5 magic acc. Do not remove skill for an amount of INT that gives less accuracy, unless we're talking about something significant. 8 INT from mahat. pants, for example, is preferred over the 5 skill from druid's slops. In the worst case, you'll lose 1% magic hit rate, but you should gain ~2-3% in raw damage from the INT (plus -enmity is good).

The details of Genie vs. ACP were pretty thoroughly covered in the previous thread, and it's basically a toss-up.


320/120 is not a myth, its a baseline build. People came up with that build with specific monsters in mind (Kings and sky gods, etc) all of which have around 110 int. For monsters with higher int, the amount of int in your resist build becomes even more important.

You're right in that it isn't a "Magic number". People shouldn't get 320/120 and then stop there, but its a good target to shoot for when first starting your resist build. From what I've read of Kanican's blog, it seems like he was getting very few resists on any HNM with a 338/130 build.

In light of the conclusions about magic accuracy and int outlined in Kanican's blog, here are my thoughts about Redingote:

If you don't have Morrigan's robe, this piece is very good for a resist build for mobs that don't require a max int build (aka, kirin, where you would be using errant / mahatma anyway).

Even if your int value is over 10 higher than your target's int, this body has higher magic accuracy than a genie weskit... 5 int * 0.5 + = 2.5 maac + 4 maac = 6.5 maac which is greater than the 6 elemental skill (equivalent to 6 magic acc) on Genie weskit.

For more traditional HNM with the average int values of 110, Redingote comes out on top of Genie weskit with 9 magic acc.

In either situation, Redingote is better for resist build than Genie weskit, and if you have NQ weskit the Redingote shines more in the maac department and will even outdamage the NQ weskit.
#14 Apr 15 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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ShellmasterK wrote:
320/120 is not a myth, its a baseline build. People came up with that build with specific monsters in mind (Kings and sky gods, etc) all of which have around 110 int.
No, 320/120 has been around since well before the discovery of the significance of mob's INT+10. It didn't come from specific monsters at all; it came from 320 being an arbitrary round number of skill that is obtainable with some decent gear. The 120 INT was nothing more than another arbitrary round number of INT that wasn't too hard to obtain with some decent gear in the remaining slots.

ShellmasterK wrote:
If you don't have Morrigan's robe, this piece is very good for a resist build for mobs that don't require a max int build (aka, kirin, where you would be using errant / mahatma anyway).
Super INT has been debunked. People still gearing max INT to nuke Kirin need to stop smoking ****** dope and get with the program.

ShellmasterK wrote:
Even if your int value is over 10 higher than your target's int, this body has higher magic accuracy than a genie weskit...
Even if the difference isn't rounded down to nothing, it's only a half percent. With less damage, that makes it more or less a toss-up.

ShellmasterK wrote:
For more traditional HNM with the average int values of 110, Redingote comes out on top of Genie weskit with 9 magic acc.
If you have crappy gear, crappy merits, crappy race, or some combination thereof such that you can't reach 120 INT without a Redingote, then sure, it starts to make a bigger difference - but still only a slight one.
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#15 Apr 15 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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True, the difference between Redingote and our other non Salvage bodies is pretty slight :/ As someone who still has NQ weskit with no Morrigan's robe in sight, I'll be getting this body, but I wish BLM could get more use out of this piece.
#16 Apr 15 2009 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I picked one up to replace a gennie b/c I tend to forget my wizard's coat.

Since the updates to whm, it's looking like it might also get some use in a holy macro.
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#17 Apr 15 2009 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I got the Royal Redingote and tested it and got pretty much the same result as Zacheus. I decided to sell the genie and keep this since this lets me hit the 330/130 mark.
#18 Apr 16 2009 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
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tackitz wrote:
I got the Royal Redingote and tested it and got pretty much the same result as Zacheus

Ofcourse youre going to get the same results, the damage going to be done isnt a mystery. The damage predicted on the mob that everyone is nuking on, was predicted already before you even got the body piece. You dont even list the gear you nuked in, which only leaves us assuming at best, that you nuked in the same exact gear.

A+B= C, 2+2= 4, C will never mysteriously be 10 all of a sudden if you keep the variables for a+b the same in that equation(ie 2 and 2).

Test done on high resistant mobs might provide more help.
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#19 Apr 16 2009 at 5:46 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Test done on high resistant mobs might provide more help.


i dunno about you, but i'm not gonna be the one testing magic acc on gear that is this close to it's predecessors....
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TARU<(^.^)> 75::BLM SCH RDM SMN WHM:: DRG75 5/6
Relic: BLM:5/6 RDM:5/6 SCH:4/6 SMN:5/6 WHM:5/6
Obi:8/8 Novio\a:O Nashira:4/5 H.Gaiters: O
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#20 Apr 16 2009 at 5:48 AM Rating: Decent
i'm turning mine in for a smn piece; the returns are too minimal for my taste, and i pull enough hate without the extra ~10dmg
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Relic: BLM:5/6 RDM:5/6 SCH:4/6 SMN:5/6 WHM:5/6
Obi:8/8 Novio\a:O Nashira:4/5 H.Gaiters: O
LS:AirshipRaiders/ValyrieRiders/NoEnkiduForU
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#21 Apr 16 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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i dunno about you, but i'm not gonna be the one testing magic acc on gear that is this close to it's predecessors....

Meh, it was more of a, some ppl nuke in maha, others weskit, on HNM scenes. This was more of a thing for them, as it looks like this body is a hybrid of maha/weskit baby making.

I havent really read to see if we have any HNM int confirmed other than spectulation, but again, i havent done the research to look it up yet.
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