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Tentacle or SoleFollow

#1 Jul 05 2006 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Im a level 75 warrior and my parties in Bhafthickets tend to pull some mamool and ive got a lil trouble (unerstatement) hitten them. I was wondering should i use solesushi like i used to or tentacle sushi (for the + double attack)
#2 Jul 05 2006 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Think Tungi sushi is a +1% double attack, and I know the +acc caps alot lower than sole.

In addition the stats on tungi are +3Dex, +3 Agi iirc.


Sole wins hands down if you need acc food.
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#3 Jul 05 2006 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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yeah, tentacle sushi caps at +18 acc... Sole Sushi caps at +15% which, although no one knows the exact numbers for acc values, is almost assuredly much higher than +19. Tentacle is a good choice for pre-30 if you have acc issues, although I'd still suggest going meat instead.
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#4 Jul 05 2006 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Sole or Bream or squid. Whichever is cheaper.
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#5 Jul 05 2006 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Sole or Bream or squid. Whichever is cheaper



I have to disagree with this. Sole sushi give +6 Dex and +5 Str and 15% acc, while squid gives +6 Dex +5 Agi and 15%, last Bream gives +6 Dex +5 Vit and 16% acc. While Bream gives the most acc, sole gives you 5 Str which I personally feel out wieghts the 1% acc.


Taken From ffxi.cannotlinkto


Sole Sushi
Strength +5
Dexterity +6
Accuracy +15%
Ranged Accuracy +15%
Resist Sleep
HP +20


Squid Sushi
HP +30
Dexterity +6
Agility +5
Mind -1
Resist Sleep
Ranged Accuracy +15%
Accuracy +15%

Bream Sushi
Dexterity +6
Vitality +5
Resist Sleep
Accuracy +16%
Ranged Accuracy +16%


Sole wins in my eyes.


Edited for typos

Edited, Jul 5th 2006 at 3:36pm EDT by Sabain
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#6 Jul 05 2006 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the question is if the differences in the Acc cap between Sole Sushi and Tent. Sushi are more important than the double attack up from the Tent. Sushi.

I don't know what the real accuracy bonus caps are, therefore I can't answer the question.
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#7 Jul 05 2006 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Sole sushi.


This is the only sushi acceptable to be eaten by anyone.--Ever.

Yea, that means RNG.

Yea, that means THF.

Yea, that means NIN.
#8 Jul 05 2006 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I have to disagree with this. Sole sushi give +6 Dex and +5 Str and 15% acc, while squid gives +6 Dex +5 Agi and 15%, last Bream gives +6 Dex +5 Vit and 16% acc. While Bream gives the most acc, sole gives you 5 Str which I personally feel out wieghts the 1% acc.


The 5 str from sole sushi does almost nothing. Even with capped PDIF (which will never happen in an exp situation), 5 str is two WSC at best. So in an unrealistic situation the 5 str adds around 3-4 damage a hit. In reality, it'll probably add at most an extra 1-2 damage. Even on a ws 5 str adds around 25-35 damage at best. So while sole sushi may be slightly better (I really can't tell a difference), in no way does it suddenly boost your performance over some one using bream or squid.
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#9 Jul 05 2006 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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If you are really poor (and under lv48) I'd recommend squid sushi, especially if you feel a need to use ranged attack (make sure its not your egg or bomb core!!). But if you got the gils to splash out, sole sushi is the way to go. Even if +5 str means jack all as above poster says, it does more for you than +agi or +vit in 90% of EXP parties as DD war.

After lv48, with /nin you should have +30 acc (life belt, 2x viking axe) so you would do fine eating meat for all but IT+++++++ mobs (which you shouldn't be fighting).

As for tentacle sushi, I don't think it's worth the price, sole sushi is cheaper (at least recently it is on Midgard) and generally does more.

Edited, Jul 5th 2006 at 10:27pm EDT by chaosgod
#10 Jul 06 2006 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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If you're under 48 eat rice dumplings dammit.



Quote:


I have to disagree with this. Sole sushi give +6 Dex and +5 Str and 15% acc, while squid gives +6 Dex +5 Agi and 15%, last Bream gives +6 Dex +5 Vit and 16% acc. While Bream gives the most acc, sole gives you 5 Str which I personally feel out wieghts the 1% acc.



Whatever incredibly minor difference granted by the 5 str or the 1% acc, is totally outweighed by the difference of 30K+ a stack. ***** paying 50k for sole when bream is 10k/stack. I promise you your parser won't give a good God ****. Your wallet will thank you, and the sniper's ring, or the haubergeon, or the maneater, you end up being able to buy with the savings WILL thank you.
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Luminaire wrote:

Luminaire's Law states that if you played only SMN or BLM to 75, you suck. No exceptions.

the only good mages are people who played melee first/also. just a mage = ****** player. always. the only good mages that didn't play melee are using bots to cure. true story.


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If god was a woman every full moon there would be floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes. The week after that there would be chocolate.
#11 Jul 07 2006 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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If you're under 48 eat rice dumplings dammit.


Arch you are always a wealth of information, but I have question this one. The attack increase from dumplings is nice, but you are looking at +15 to +20acc if you use sushi in the lvl 40-48 range.

That is using the bases that 1 weapon skill level = 1 accurracy that has been mentioned before. Unless this has changed, at level 40 your A weapons are skill 123 which means 123 * 15% = +18acc.

It has been ages since I had a job in the 40-48 range so I can't remember anymore how badly the whiff factor is in that level range.

By saying to use rice dumplings I am under the impression that pre lvl48, Att > Acc.

Edited, Jul 7th 2006 at 3:29pm EDT by IronhideBismarck
#12 Jul 07 2006 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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The correct answer is:

You should be eating Dumplings til level 48. You should be eating Chiefkabobs or Sis Kebabs til 56. After that, it's situational.
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#13 Jul 07 2006 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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More to the point, you really should not need the +acc from any sushi prior to 55-56.
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#14 Jul 07 2006 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Arch you are always a wealth of information, but I have question this one. The attack increase from dumplings is nice, but you are looking at +15 to +20acc if you use sushi in the lvl 40-48 range.

That is using the bases that 1 weapon skill level = 1 accurracy that has been mentioned before. Unless this has changed, at level 40 your A weapons are skill 123 which means 123 * 15% = +18acc.

It has been ages since I had a job in the 40-48 range so I can't remember anymore how badly the whiff factor is in that level range.

By saying to use rice dumplings I am under the impression that pre lvl48, Att > Acc.



Its just so very very easy to get an acceptable hit rate in that level range while using dumplings that the extra acc from sushi is wasted. Whereas higher up its either have a horrible hit rate without sushi or have an incredible hit rate with sushi, at least until you get that more pimp acc gear.


Whiff rate in the 40s isn't really that bad. At 45 it becomes a nonissue for warrior. AT 48 with lifebelt you shouldn't have ANY problems.
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Luminaire wrote:

Luminaire's Law states that if you played only SMN or BLM to 75, you suck. No exceptions.

the only good mages are people who played melee first/also. just a mage = ****** player. always. the only good mages that didn't play melee are using bots to cure. true story.


GrumpyWookie wrote:
If god was a woman every full moon there would be floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes. The week after that there would be chocolate.
#15 Jul 07 2006 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Arch you are always a wealth of information, but I have question this one. The attack increase from dumplings is nice, but you are looking at +15 to +20acc if you use sushi in the lvl 40-48 range.

That is using the bases that 1 weapon skill level = 1 accurracy that has been mentioned before. Unless this has changed, at level 40 your A weapons are skill 123 which means 123 * 15% = +18acc.


Acutally it's quite a bit more.

Just some acu formulas i'm gonna use:

Weapon Skill =< 200
X = "Weapon Skill" + int (DEX / 2)

Weapon Skill > 200
X = 200 + [("Weapon Skill" - 200) * 0.9] + int (DEX / 2)

For Example:

LVL 48
Axe Skill: 147

Base Elv Dex w/ no subjob and naked: 39

Assuming your not naked and you got a subjob and your not elvaan (maybe mithra) your dex is gonna be just a little bit higher than that :P ... so let's just use 40 for a low num. This is just for a general idea anyway, you can calculate your own chars acu yourself.

147 + int(40/2) =
147 + 20 = 167 acu.

Now let's say you have a life belt and dual viking axes (+30 acu).

167 + 30 = 197 acu.

ok now down some sushi (ignoring the dex bonus for simplicity).

197 * .15 = ~30acu

Now that's with a low ball dex.
/24 nin = +7dex (vs no subjob)
LL boots = +3dex
Sushi dex = +5dex

That brings you up to 54 dex, and that's still a bit low prolly because of other gear you will be wearing.

Now let's add dual Woodsman or Snipers and a Peacock Amulet.

147 + int(54/2) + 50(from gear) = 224Acu
224 * .15 = +~34Acu.

The point i'm trying to get at is that Sushi gives you a **** of a lot more accu then people give it credit for. Furthermore, as far as I've seen no one has shown sushi to have a cap (cept for tentacle).

However, if your sporting the gear I just showed in ex 2 and you're having troubles missing you are fighting mobs that are too tough. At the lvl 48 marker you have enough + acu gear that is acceptable wear that you should be downing meat. As for lvls lower than this, the atk bonus from food is not only going to outweigh the benefit of sushi it's going to cost a lot less.

IMO prior to the life belt and dual vikings the sushi bonus is not going to yet warrant the use of it. Once you get to 48 and get that gear, you're not really going to need it. Once the viking axes go back to the ah and you start to fight tougher mobs, this bonus will outweigh that of the atk bonus.

Therefore, it is more wise to eat atk food at lower lvls and deal with the miss factor, while hitting for a decent amount.

Do not, however, underestimate the power of sushi.

My Sushi Bonus with tp gaining gear at 73 is about:
200 + 59(.9) + int(76/2) + 49 =~340
340*.15 = +51Acu.

And yes between gear and food having +100acu I do still notice a diff between when aggressor is up and when it is down.

I don't parse, but given any situation you can get a feel for your accu by fighting a few mobs before you eat your food. Just don't eat a 3hr atk bonus food unless you have an antacid on you or you're sure you won't be switching to sushi.
#16 Jul 07 2006 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
More to the point, you really should not need the +acc from any sushi prior to 55-56.


Quote:
Its just so very very easy to get an acceptable hit rate in that level range while using dumplings that the extra acc from sushi is wasted. Whereas higher up its either have a horrible hit rate without sushi or have an incredible hit rate with sushi, at least until you get that more pimp acc gear.


Whiff rate in the 40s isn't really that bad. At 45 it becomes a nonissue for warrior. AT 48 with lifebelt you shouldn't have ANY problems.


Thanks guys that was the info I was looking for.

Quote:
Acutally it's quite a bit more.

Yeah, Dex and gear do come to play was just giving a rough estimate with just weapon skill to show that sushi will give you as a minimum about +13Acc at lvl 40.

Quote:
The point i'm trying to get at is that Sushi gives you a **** of a lot more accu then people give it credit for.

More or less what I was trying to get at. I have seen numerous posts where people have indicated they have accurracy issues at lower levels and peopls saying sushi is not worth it and to use food that gives maybe 5-10acc where when calculated sushi provides even more. But as noted above, if you are having bad accurracy issues at the lower levels it is an overhunting issue more than what accurracy food should I be eating.
#17 Jul 07 2006 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah thats basically it. Things aren't very evasive in the low level range, and what acc gear there is, is more than enough.



Part of it is that things don't have to be as many levels above you to qualify as IT or VT etc. If a VT mob at 40 was as high above you as a VT mob at 75, you'd need that sushi to hit it.



Thats generally why I see 61 as the final jump off for sushi till endgame where you can get merits to make the difference up.
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Luminaire wrote:

Luminaire's Law states that if you played only SMN or BLM to 75, you suck. No exceptions.

the only good mages are people who played melee first/also. just a mage = ****** player. always. the only good mages that didn't play melee are using bots to cure. true story.


GrumpyWookie wrote:
If god was a woman every full moon there would be floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes. The week after that there would be chocolate.
#18 Jul 07 2006 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Sole sushi.


This is the only sushi acceptable to be eaten by anyone.--Ever.

Yea, that means RNG.

Yea, that means THF.

Yea, that means NIN.


Huh!? I completely disagree with this. 1-56 war should eat meat. 57+, sole is great, bream is completely acceptable. What a lot of people don't realize is that unless you can get above +30 STR, you really aren't going to notice a huge jump in WS damage. Until you can get your STR over the value of the mobs VIT, and get a positive fSTR value, STR gear is not seeing nearly its full potential. Sure STR is a modifier in rampage, and that helps the debate in favor of Sole, but +5 STR is not going to make or break your damage.

Not to mention, in an acc build, it is preferrable to eat meat for the STR AND attack.

As for rng, I'll take ranged attack food thank you very much. If you are using sole sushi as a rng, you clearly aren't maximizing your potential. With over +80 racc gear available, sushi is BEYOND overkill.

As for thf, again I bring up the pDif example. Only with thf, its more like +35 STR (since we have a few less than war). Although Sole is great, squid or squid+1 is completely acceptable. The only times sole is really superior is at 75 if you have a couple pieces of heca and can really pump your STR up. Even then, its marginal at best since 5 STR again will not make or break you. Also, a thf in an acc build will want to use att food in most situations.

Edited, Jul 8th 2006 at 10:39am EDT by BartelX
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