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#1 Dec 20 2004 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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How to Keep Your Paladin Happy!

By Adam H., aka Ivan of Pandemonium, WingGundamZero on the Allakazham FFXI forums.

Spirits Within guide by thesuperbeef.

Okay, us Paladins know how hard it is to be us sometimes. People don't listen, people tell you how to do your job, etc. This is why I'm making this post. Even though I am still a lowbie Paladin, I still face many of the same problems higher ups do. Here is a list of ways to keep your beloved tank happy!

Note: Most of this info is Pre 30's. Once we get flash and more abilities and spells, the topics below start to become less and less of a problem. Most of these things are more like guidelines. At the start of a party, before any kind of combat starts, the party should plan out their plan B, C, and D incase A fails. And as we all know, Plan A almost always fails. So read and enjoy!

Paladins NEED mp to tank! - A Paladin with no mp = useless. Plain and simple. Pullers, keep an eye on your tank's mp. If it's less than about a quarter full, give him a break.

In order to keep hate, Paladins NEED to get hurt! - Healers, be sure to not top off your Paladin's hp during a fight. If our Cure spells are to have any hate grabbing effect they need to recover hp. Just throw us a Cure II now and then if we dip into the yellow.

Damage dealers, don't unload at the start of the fight! - Ever hear the phrase "Damage dealers don't start fights, they end them"? well it's true. Hold off on heavy damage spells or weaponskills (this includes SA) until the Paladin's 2nd voke. Of course, if you have a thief who can SATA onto the main tank, just wait for the Paladin to Provoke and begin his normal hate grabbing pattern.

In emergancy situations, the Paladin will take over. LISTEN TO HIM! - Let's say you are deep in the Yhoator Jungle. Your party just finished off a EXP Chain #4, healers are low on mp, the pt is beat up and so are you. Unfortunatly a Gobln spawns in you camp and aggroes! Stay calm. If the Paladin is worth his salts he will attack the two mobs and use his 2 hour, giving you a good minute to get to the zone. Do not try to play the hero by staying and healing the Paladin or fight the other mobs, that's HIS job. Just get to the zone and he will follow shortly. If he is really good he will simply take the death instead of taking the train to the zone. Of course, this is only for areas where a train can put other parties in danger, such as the Jungles, and from what I've heard, the Crawlers Nest as well as Garlaige Citadel. Otherwise, there is almost always another way to take care of a link besides sacrificing yourself. One of the best is the good ol' "Call for Help!" Of course, as the tank it is often your job to gauge the situation and judge whether or not the fight can be won, so it often depends on your own judgement.

Brief Guide to Spirits Within, by thesuperbeef - "At 300% TP Spirits within deals ~45%-50% of the Paladin's CURRENT HP to the mob. This number ignores all other stats including the DEF of the mob. What this means is when your Paladin has 300% TP you MUST cure him to full ASAP!

Some White Mages are timid to cure the tank to full. I've had a few say things like "I don't want to cast Cure IV, the mob will aggro me!". Trust me, when your Paladin asks to be cured to full, oblige him. Spirits Within is a MAJOR hate grabber, and chances are the mob isn't going to be pulled off. And if it is its going to get right back to him after spirits goes off.

For a reference at lvl 60 I have 1200+ HP. Spirits within hit for just shy of 600 when i use it at full. Now 600 damage is ALOT. Your average SATA'd viperbite at 55-59 was probably doing close to the same if not a little less. Also, the more AF your Paladin has the better, as that spirits will only grab more hate. When was the last time you saw the mob peeled off the tank after an SATA'd viperbite? Probably not very often.

The more people that understand Spirits Within the better. Keep your tank happy, maximize your damage, your hate managment, your downtime. Spirirts Within is a great weapon skill, and your Paladin is getting them of at full HP everytime, all will be happy."

That's pretty much all of the problems I have run into. As I level I will probably add onto this. If I have missed anything, post here and I will add to the list!

Edited, Fri Jan 21 20:37:42 2005 by WingGundamZero

Edited, Mon Jan 31 08:01:42 2005 by WingGundamZero
#2 Dec 21 2004 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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The more people see this here the less hopefully i will have to drill it into thier heads in the middle of a fight.
#3 Dec 21 2004 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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I am my static's puller mate, this post is incredibly helpful and I will be posting it at our LS forums.

Rate up!
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#4 Dec 21 2004 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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I wish there was a way to let everyone Haste does effect recast timers ><

I like to think I hole hate fairly well, but when every melee job has haste and doing 2 skillchains a fight it gets very frustrating.

But seriously everyone needs to let the WHM's and RDM's know...
#5 Dec 21 2004 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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errr.. all your melees have haste and a PLD doesn't?

It is good to do more skillchains in battles to kill faster... so don't complain about that :P

But... being a tank when all others have haste is kind of unfair
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#6 Dec 21 2004 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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Well I have something for you : if blm or brd sleeps the link, provoke it and dont attack it right after you killed the first one.
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#7 Dec 23 2004 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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here's something i would love to add for those 55+. Spirits Within is prolly the least understood WS by all jobs except for paladins. I've had people gawk at my spirits in Cape Terrigan. Whm in particular need to understand spirits so let me give it a basic run down.

At 300% TP Spirits within deals ~45%-50% of the plds CURRENT HP to the mob. This number ignores all other stats including the DEF of the mob. What this means is when your pld has 300% TP : you MUST cure him to full ASAP!

Some whms are timid to cure the tank to full. Iv'e had a few say things like "i don't want to cast cure4, the mob will aggro me". Trust me, when your paladin asks to be cured to full, oblige him. Spirits Within is a MAJOR hate grabber, and chances are the mob isn't going to be pulled off. And if it is its going to get right back to him after spirits goes off.

For a reference at lvl 60 I have 1200+ HP. Spirits within hit for just shy of 600 when i use it at full. Now 600 damage is ALOT. Your average SATA'd viperbite at 55-59 was probably doing close to the same if not a little less. Also, the more AF your pld has the better, as that spirits will only grab more hate. When was the last time you saw the mob peeled off the tank after an SATA'd viperbite? Probably not very often.

The more people that understand Spirits Within the better. Keep your tank happy, maximize your damage, your hate managment, your downtime. Spirirts Within is a great weapon skill, and your pld is getting them of at full HP everytime, all will be happy.
#8 Dec 23 2004 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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Can you add...

WHM/BLM: Let me heal myself once or twice before you cast
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#9 Dec 23 2004 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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#10 Dec 23 2004 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I like it...A LOT! =)

I'm putting it on my linskshell message board!
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#11 Dec 23 2004 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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That is an excellent post. Being that I just got level 41 with my Paladin, I am running into the Red Mages with Refresh now. I love that. I hope that many jobs read this thread and learn something from it. Thanks for posting this.

/salute
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#12 Dec 27 2004 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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now whats sad is when my last party in garlairge had me tanking as a mnk/war instead of a pld/war who was in the same party! we were doing fine expt I was taking INSANE damage... pld got hit for like 40 dmg, I get hit for like 70 to 100! and he kept complaining everytime he took 1 or 2 hits! he was a Galka pld/war too!

Edited, Mon Dec 27 01:13:35 2004 by XaviarCraig
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#13 Dec 27 2004 at 1:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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As a non-PLD lurking in your forums, just want to add a couple things... From a bard's perspective, of course. ^^ :P

Quote:
Paladins NEED mp to tank! - A Paladin with no mp = useless. Plain and simple. Pullers, keep an eye on your tank's mp. If it's less than about a quarter full, give him a break.
Very true. However, also remember that a bard's not a miracle worker, if you're partying in one. Positioning is part of our job...

And Paladins often take a leading role in a party. If the melee are clustering on you and forcing you to not get ballad, please try and help us out. We can only scream "IF YOU IDIOTS DON'T STOP MOVING, YOU'RE ALL GETTING FOWL AUBADE AND SCOP'S OPERETTA." so many times. I can work around it on occasion, but many times I'll have to sacrifice Ballad because some DRK decides some puny minstrel isn't worth listening to. ~_~ So please, lend us a helping hand if someone's not paying attention.

Quote:
In emergancy situations, the Paladin will take over. LISTEN TO HIM! - Let's say you are deep in the Yhoator Jungle. Your party just finished off a EXP Chain #4, healers are low on mp, the pt is beat up and so are you. Unfortunatly the AOE attack that finished the last fight somehow caused a pair of Goblins to aggro! Stay calm. If the Paladin is worth his salts he will attack the two mobs and use his 2 hour, giving you a good minute to get to the zone. Do not try to play the hero by staying and healing the Paladin or fight the other mobs, that's HIS job. Just get to the zone and he will follow shortly. If he is really good he will simply take the death instead of taking the train to the zone.
I would like to take issue with this... Early on, it's a great idea. However, PLD is not the end-all be-all link taker-care-of. BRD has useful abilities like Horde LUllaby... And while you can invincible and hold hate off, I can sleep a good number of links BCNM40-style while you all rest to full, pull one off of me, and take care of it. :P Particularly as an Elvaan, I'm not so feeble that I can't deal with it... BLMs have Escape, too. And if all else fails, a WHM can even teleport...

So instead of saying "The PLD saves the day, period," how about advocating the group deciding what happens beforehand? As a creepy exp-maximizing efficiency freak (IE, a bard), it's in my best interests that noone die -- And quite often, there are great alternatives to it. :/
#14 Dec 27 2004 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
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this job seems interesting to myself (soon about to do the quest for it) However I have a few questions with regard's to it. Firstly at LV55 a paladin can learn the spell "holy". I've always had a thing for holy since FF5 (I know it's only a spell but I love it either way ^^). Anyway my question is for a paladin is it of any use? Does it deal supstancial damage can create major hate? Or is it a waste of MP and more then likely to end with another getting aggro. Also my race is a mithra, This will make it easier to avoid attacks and also should make me attack more often (helping me keep hate if I'm right), however my Vit will be as low as a taru's. Does this hamper my chances of being a paladin? Finally MP. Is there a way to raise it without sacrificing too much HP or VIT? Thanks for any help :).
#15 Dec 27 2004 at 5:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Good information. PLDs are great to have around.

/salute
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#16 Dec 27 2004 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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The fact that i need to take hits to keep on tanking them has given me the most grief over the levels. This fact made the jungles a living hell for me. Now with flash though im down to neeeding only 2 cureII's maybe. So on the odd occasion where i do run into a cure happy whm, i can still have the mob on me like stink on a monkey ^^.
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#17 Dec 27 2004 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Paladins NEED mp to tank!


Very true, you might want to point out to the WHMs or /WHMs that if the PLD is Poisoned, he cannot rest. If he cannot rest, and it is pre-Refresh, then no MP. Too many WHMs need to learn to use Poisona on the PLD, even if it's only at the end of battle.

On that note, you might also want to point out Paralyna and Silena, and not just at the end of battle.

Quote:
In order to keep hate, Paladins NEED to get hurt!


This all depends on the PLD level. I do not need to get hurt, the more damage I take the more hate I lose anyway. Before Sentinel and Flash, then yes. After Flash, I like to take as little damage as possible, and it's not uncommon for me to not take any damage at all till after my second Provoke, due to Shield blocks, parries, dodges, etc. Throw a SMN into the mix and I hardly get touched. Also, I NEED to be healed, even though I'm healing myself, there are mobs out there that hit very hard, and a "Cure II now and then" will not cut it.

Quote:
Damage dealers, don't unload at the start of the fight!


There's nothing wrong with this, especially when going for your XP chains. Sure the DD is going to get hate, but that won't last very long. The only time I couldn't get hate back right away was when a DRK/THF was standing next to me during an opening SATA Distortion, because he wanted to get a SA off at the beginning. But, that's what Cover is for. ^^

Quote:
In emergancy situations, the Paladin will take over. LISTEN TO HIM!


You may be good at emergency situations, but that doesn't mean all PLDs are. Every emergency and zone is different. In fact I would seldom use Invincible in a zoning situation, Escape is much better, but it all depends on your zone.



From a certain point of view, you offer very good information, but it's all pre-30 information (not counting the Spirits Within, which isn't your info.) With the tools a PLD gets later, as well as the other jobs, everything changes. You might want to point out at what levels your information applies, because I would bitch-slap any WHM that came into my PT and said "well I read that I'm only supposed to cure you only occasionally."


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#18 Dec 27 2004 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I am a whm, and i saw this thread and looked at it. However, i had a friend that took pld to 54 then quit ffxi all-together. So i was fortunate enough to know the ins and outs of spirits. (he did his homework on pld and wouldn't shut up about it) He gave me a different perspective on PLDs and i respect them greatly, it takes a great lookin party to keep me in without a PLD. Recently i have run into about 3 PLDs that have about as much knowledge about spirits as your standard valk n00b. They use it as soon as they can. Another thing i've run into recently is PLDs unwilling to sacrifice themselves for the good of, well, yours truly. In boyahda tree some rdm was being a dumb*ss and used AoE. In case you've never been to the tree, all the camps have 2-3 mobs hangin around at all times so AoE=death. First battle, blm escapes us. Next battle RDM does it AGAIN and i was running in circles not able to heal (i admit it, i panicked) but the PLD barely took hate off and the entire party was near death because i couldnt heal. I used DS+Curaga III and guess what? I got back hate! What a surprise. Now the real slap in the face, the mandie took me from 600-24 health in about 30 sec, all the PLD did was try to voke and attack. I die, THEN (as in, after i died) the PLD used invincible. I admit i've made my mistakes but not many resulting in death, when i do, i usually only have 5 seconds to think, not a whole half minute. I'm wondering, do PLDs lose their desire to play post 55? Cause i did @ 53 and quit for a month. I know a few good plds but post 55 you should know tank before whm, especially post 56 when whm can raise II. If the PLD had 2 hrd i'd have been kissing his feet and forever in his debt, instead i just wanted to not heal him for the next battle then start healing the back up tank. Oh well, i'm still playin and i didnt let anyone die. Sorry for the rant, i'm just wondering...thanks.

P.S. I WILL NOT party without a PLD unless its like NIN/war, blm, rdm, rng, rng and with a one lvl gap. I (heart) PLDs
#19 Dec 28 2004 at 4:51 AM Rating: Good
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well derski its not our job to die for the pt, now before you bash or rate down or whatever let me explain

it IS our job to ensure the saftey of the part, it is in situations of desperations that we take charge or it and die if nessecary, and to be the last one standing toe to toe with the mob if the other do need to zone
but let me be clear it is NOT our job to die for the party because of COMPLETE NOOBISM lets review shall we


Quote:
In boyahda tree some rdm was being a dumb*ss and used AoE. In case you've never been to the tree, all the camps have 2-3 mobs hangin around at all times so AoE=death. First battle, blm escapes us. Next battle RDM does it AGAIN


this is one of those cases where it is not our job to die beacuse someone didnt learn there lesson the first f**kin time they used AOE in boyhada tree( which is suicide, plain and simple) granted

Quote:
but the PLD barely took hate off and the entire party was near death because i couldnt heal. I used DS+Curaga III and guess what? I got back hate! What a surprise. Now the real slap in the face, the mandie took me from 600-24 health in about 30 sec, all the PLD did was try to voke and attack. I die


he should have used Invincible beacuse divine seal + cureIII is as bad as Benediction, now not saying Benediction cant be held off without invincible, ive done it a few times me self but yeash, if he could barely keep hate in the first place then he shoulda 2hr'd and most likey died

but see what other classes really dont consider is PLDS NEED EXP TOO, also PLDS LOSE EXP WHEN THEY DIE and furthermore PLDS CAN DE-LEVEL, OMFG YEAH ITS TURE WE DO DE-LEVEL*SHOCK* AND NOBODY OF ANY RACE, OR CLASS LIKE DE-LEVELING, AND NO PLD NEEDS TO DE-LEVEL BECAUSE SOME PERSON IS BEING A RETARDO :),but if situation requires we are supposed to die first of anyone at all, but plz all you other jobs realize that we need xp too :) one death=thas fine 2 deaths=ok 3deaths+= theres something eaither wrong with your pld or his pt( withe the exception of one-hitter quitters such as Sickle Slash and Screwdriver)
#20 Dec 28 2004 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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My pally Credos and I have been together so long we almost share a brain. When the crap hits the fan (usually on key hunts lol) neither of us has to say anything as I run behind him to be covered so I can bene if his Invincible has been used up. A simple "fill me up" has me do just that so he can Spirits. As for hasting, he's the first person on my cycle, then our dark, then our monk gets it as soon as he comes back from pulling.

White mage/pally relationship is very important. Once you understand each other it all just ends up being instinctive.

Oh yes as for MP, when playing my red mage I refresh myself first, then the pally of course.
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#21 Dec 28 2004 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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This is a very nice post it would be nice to have a small thread like this in every job forum.
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#22 Dec 28 2004 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
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@Laute: How wasn't the DRK listening? I often go to the PLD/Mage side of the mob to get ballad, because I need MP too, and I've had countless BRDs scream at me for that. Annoying, but I'll keep doing it.

I'm planning on leveling up RDM/WHM/BLM soon, so I'm hoping to have a few questions answered. Mainly, how many provokes/cures do you usually want to cast on yourself before the mages start healing you/doing damage.
#23 Dec 28 2004 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Here is something I would like to add, for all the healers in the parties:

I do not know if others have noticed but I cannot start to rest while spell effects are going off on me. Example: At the end of the fight while I am standing, someone cast Cure III. This delays my time to "get down and rest". I cannot start resting while the spell you just cast takes effect.

If it is a Cure or a remove status that would not prevent me from resting (paralize, slow), please let me kneel first then cast. I know we all need to heal MP. I usually have the smallest MP pool and I do not benifit from any "Clear Mind" attributes. You will likely gain more MP/tick while we are resting anyway. Aslo, I will usually be the first to stand to make sure I am ready to target and voke the next mob, while you can get an extra tick or two.

To help you with this, I usually give a status report just before the mob goes down. (Poisoned, Paralized, Slow) Please start removing these status then, we will both be able to "get to healing MP" that much faster. Even with Refresh I will kneel, I want all the MP I can grab at the start of each fight.

Thanks for reading my post.
(Sry no access to spell/grammar checker)
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#24 Dec 28 2004 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Derski, sorry if I'm a bit confused here.. but what I get from your post is that you had more than one mob on you at the time you used DS + Curaga. If the pld didn't have hate on the other mobs, invincible would not have taken hate away from you, a pld needs the mobs attention (ie. a previous voke, flash, anything). If your pld had not voked, flashed or done something to that mob before you got hate, invincible wouldn't have helped.

Also on the topic of lettin a pld heal themselves: I love healin myself.. every bit of hate helps. I realize that a healer needs to keep their tank alive but at the same time I don't want to see my hp always above 1k and me stuck with full/near full mp. I have refresh/ballad/both, let me take advantage of it XD

And whoever mentioned drks, plds and brds. When playin brd I will give a drk ballad AFTER a fight, and (assumin his mp is low) keep it on him until he has sufficient mp. Durin battle I want a drk to have madrigal/minuet so they can dish out some damage :P This is why I don't like drks standin near plds durin a fight.

Oh and whms are good, especially taru.. mmm taru pie <3
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#25 Dec 28 2004 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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"In emergancy situations, the Paladin will take over. LISTEN TO HIM! - Let's say you are deep in the Yhoator Jungle. Your party just finished off a EXP Chain #4, healers are low on mp, the pt is beat up and so are you. Unfortunatly the AOE attack that finished the last fight somehow caused a pair of Goblins to aggro! Stay calm. If the Paladin is worth his salts he will attack the two mobs and use his 2 hour, giving you a good minute to get to the zone. Do not try to play the hero by staying and healing the Paladin or fight the other mobs, that's HIS job. Just get to the zone and he will follow shortly. If he is really good he will simply take the death instead of taking the train to the zone. "


man if more people did this there would be a whole hell of a reduction to raises.
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#26 Dec 29 2004 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Every melee needs to see these, so *Bump*
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#27 Dec 29 2004 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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i like this a lot^^
It does point out a few things that ppl should know about us, nice job^^

One of the things i disagreed with is the Spirits Within though.
I guess its in teh way you use it though, totally opinion based^^

I only see Spirits Within as a hate graber, just like Provoke, Flash, etc etc. Waiting for 300 TP is nice and all, i mean, i would being doing like...600 dmg at lvl 68 maybe a little more, but waiting 2 battles for 300 TP? i dont really think its worth it. i know you PLDs could kept hate well pre-Spirits Within, and at 100 TP, it should do 100 dmg, maybe a little more, so i treat it like provoke. i use it when its ready to go^^
Its not that i dont know how to use it >_>
i just use it differently^^

I think WHMs should start curing when the HP is Yellow, but thats just me. i dont know how many times i have tried to Cure III myself, and end up cure 0 hp, not good =< It does help to have macros saying ur curing urself though PLDs^^

Someone asked about Holy, i cant remeber the name, sry ><
It is a waste, it cost too much MP, and the dmg isnt worth it, you could create a lot more hate using the MP for Flash and Cure <blank>. To be honest, i have started using it in xp pts recently, in Light SCs, but only because my staff is lvled, and i can make up the MP with Spirit Taker.

Im not too sure about the "Cure when ur trying to rest" thing, but i think you are healing, its just lag, and it doesnt look like it. I switch weapons a lot during battle, usually sword to staff when things re hitting too hard, and it will show me with my sword and shield, but i will be getting hit like i have the earth staff, sometimes the elemental effect kicks in too, so it just might be lag. It does however effect you if you have to move. I know ppl have shouted at me to voke, and im like...i cant move >_>, cause i have a cure, Regen, and refresh hold'n me back. Geez...now it sounds like it does stop you from resting...maybe i should stop talking before i contradict myself anymore O.o

Oh yeah, when a person is aggroed by multiple things, instead of trying to get a voke or flash on the mobs, toss a cure to the person under attack, then Invinsible. if its only 2 mobs, its ok to voke and flash, but if hes got half of Yhoat on him....well....yeah. and Paralayze. We Hates Paralyze. Most ppl dont realize that if we use our Job Abilities, and we are interupted cause of Para, we have to wait for our timers to get to 0 to use them again. Onzozo is very bad for this, against Toramas, which spam Paralyze and Silence like its 1999. So if a PLD is always screaming for Paralyna (i think thats how its spelled ><) its not cause he/she is picky, hes trying to stay in the game^^ I got yelled at quite a few times, not cool ><

um....sry bout the long post >< go PLDs lol



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#28 Dec 29 2004 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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Not to descredit this or anything but Rushian made the a post of this on the exact same topic and exact same title many months ago.
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#29 Oct 20 2005 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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In emergancy situations, the Paladin will take over. LISTEN TO HIM! - Let's say you are deep in the Yhoator Jungle. Your party just finished off a EXP Chain #4, healers are low on mp, the pt is beat up and so are you. Unfortunatly a Gobln spawns in you camp and aggroes! Stay calm. If the Paladin is worth his salts he will attack the two mobs and use his 2 hour, giving you a good minute to get to the zone. Do not try to play the hero by staying and healing the Paladin or fight the other mobs, that's HIS job. Just get to the zone and he will follow shortly. If he is really good he will simply take the death instead of taking the train to the zone. Of course, this is only for areas where a train can put other parties in danger, such as the Jungles, and from what I've heard, the Crawlers Nest as well as Garlaige Citadel. Otherwise, there is almost always another way to take care of a link besides sacrificing yourself. One of the best is the good ol' "Call for Help!" Of course, as the tank it is often your job to gauge the situation and judge whether or not the fight can be won, so it often depends on your own judgement.


I'm not a PLD, but I did go my first 30 lvls with WAR as a tank (as so many before me), so I know a bit about this, especially seeing as all but one in my party once died after a gobbie link even after I screamed at 'em several times to zone while I still had hate.

Thankfully I've moved to the greener melee pastures of DRK, and your insightful post will be at the fore of my mind when PTing with PLDs in the future. Thanks. A lot. :D
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#30 Oct 20 2005 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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To Mr PLD Hater:

Depending on your level even if the pld used invincible you may still have died, seeing as pre rampart we have no abilty for dealing with excessive links. Holy circle creates 0 hate in my experiance so only the mobs he had affected would have been affected by invincible. after saying that using the highest cure you have on the person with hate + invincible would work but then everyone makes mistakes even pld freeze up and panic at times
#31 Oct 20 2005 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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In emergancy situations, the Paladin will take over. LISTEN TO HIM! - Let's say you are deep in the Yhoator Jungle. Your party just finished off a EXP Chain #4, healers are low on mp, the pt is beat up and so are you. Unfortunatly a Gobln spawns in you camp and aggroes! Stay calm. If the Paladin is worth his salts he will attack the two mobs and use his 2 hour, giving you a good minute to get to the zone. Do not try to play the hero by staying and healing the Paladin or fight the other mobs, that's HIS job. Just get to the zone and he will follow shortly. If he is really good he will simply take the death instead of taking the train to the zone. Of course, this is only for areas where a train can put other parties in danger, such as the Jungles, and from what I've heard, the Crawlers Nest as well as Garlaige Citadel. Otherwise, there is almost always another way to take care of a link besides sacrificing yourself. One of the best is the good ol' "Call for Help!" Of course, as the tank it is often your job to gauge the situation and judge whether or not the fight can be won, so it often depends on your own judgement.



I agree with this almost totally. But I also agree with what has already beeen said on this, we dont ALWAYS have to die from these situatons. Now dont get me wrong, I consider myself a true PLD, through and through, and nothing makes me feel better than dying to protect a party, espicially a good one. But you know what makes me feel even better? Saving that party's ass and walking out alive, with like 50 HP, ivory armor shining in the sunlight and hearing "Holy hell, I thought you were gone!, lol!" Heh, nothing puffs out my chest more than that

Quote:
In order to keep hate, Paladins NEED to get hurt! - Healers, be sure to not top off your Paladin's hp during a fight. If our Cure spells are to have any hate grabbing effect they need to recover hp. Just throw us a Cure II now and then if we dip into the yellow


Once again, somebody beat me to it, this is fine for lower lvls, but after a while this wont cut it, at 64 I can bust out cure4 twice and a cure 2 before im drained, and thats at full MP, so, for example, night before last in Bibiki Bay, I got hit by a gob for 680+ with AM followed by a bomb toss for close too 400 after we had been fighting it for a minute, so, yes, I died, but thats not the point Im making. If it had only been the AM I still would have needed the WHM to do more than " Just toss out a cure2 here and there."
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#32 Oct 20 2005 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Recently i have run into about 3 PLDs that have about as much knowledge about spirits as your standard valk n00b. They use it as soon as they can.


There is nothing wrong with this. 150 damage everyfight, sometimes twice a fight does help. If you save 300tp and use every 2 or 3 fights, you may have situations that require you to rest or lose your tp. Plus you may be fighting that "special mob" that right as you use spirits, it nails you for 400 damage and now your damage is 1/3 what it could be. I'm not against saving and using full 300tp, but to much can happen that could cost you to waste your 300tp.

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I think WHMs should start curing when the HP is Yellow, but thats just me. i dont know how many times i have tried to Cure III myself, and end up cure 0 hp, not good =< It does help to have macros saying ur curing urself though PLDs^^


This is risky. Some mobs may find a way to one shot you or triple hit you to death. Overlapping cures are frustrating, but at least you are full hp. I use /tells or /p in my cure macros so the whm knows when I am curing. Also, after getting spirits, it makes it tough to maximize the damage when you are sitting in the yellow.

Good luck all
#33 Oct 20 2005 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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About Spirits... very situational when to save it up or when to use at 100% for hate. Example, you want to get chain 5 in a typical EXP PT. 300% Spirits is very helpful for that. You just have to be aware of what chain you are on and make sure you can get 300% by the 6th mob in the chain. A lot of the times just using 100% SW to finish off a mob that won't die (when your BLM and RDMs are resting) is very helpful in saving your HP/MP as well. So, just don't save 300% every time just for the sake of seeing high damage. ^^
#34 Oct 21 2005 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Laute wrote:
As a non-PLD lurking in your forums, just want to add a couple things... From a bard's perspective, of course. ^^ :P

I would like to take issue with this... Early on, it's a great idea. However, PLD is not the end-all be-all link taker-care-of. BRD has useful abilities like Horde LUllaby... And while you can invincible and hold hate off, I can sleep a good number of links BCNM40-style while you all rest to full, pull one off of me, and take care of it. :P Particularly as an Elvaan, I'm not so feeble that I can't deal with it... BLMs have Escape, too. And if all else fails, a WHM can even teleport...

So instead of saying "The PLD saves the day, period," how about advocating the group deciding what happens beforehand? As a creepy exp-maximizing efficiency freak (IE, a bard), it's in my best interests that noone die -- And quite often, there are great alternatives to it. :/


Double hands up on what Laute says here, pre lvl @# forgot what lvl it is........ well the levels where your RDM BLM gets sleep 2 and brds become good at sleeping mobs, it's the PLD's call after they get it. PLDs take a back seat in calling the shots.

The only thing we'll do is decide which of the 3-5 mobs sleeping there to start killing and curing the sleepers when the mob wakes up or voking/flashing/rampart/warcry.

Those are the things that a PLD should learn when they hit higher levels, it's more of a switch in metality
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