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Good Vorpal Blades surprise people =/Follow

#1 May 27 2009 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Okay. if you check me when i am tping, i look like a typical turtle PLD aside from a few pieces. If you check me during a WS i am pimped like some warrior with a severe hard on for big numbers. I'm geared well, i eat good food, and tend to have some kind of attack buff from a brd or cor. even so, every time i WS and break 400 dmg, people are surprised. When i break 600 their jaws drop. Seriously. I had the Samurai asking to see my WS set after those started popping up. I have partied with several people, who have PLD to 75, that have told me they have never once seen vorpals like mine, or done vorpal for better than 250 in a party. This makes me sad. Why is it so many of us are content to put no effort into our potentially big number WS? It's a nice hate spike tool. Believe me, as a rng, i know all about hate spikes from a large numbered WS. c'est la vie.
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#2 May 27 2009 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I'm more surprised that people expect PLDs to do any lower than 100 damage each time.

I've just been in a party for 15 hours as a 70-72 PLD, cycling through a few members (only 3 original members stayed the entire time). My SAM friend and I skillchain Darkness, which means I've been using Swift Blade. Majority of the time, Swift Blade has been doing 300+ damage each time. Whenever I did Vorpals, they always ranged from 250-460, depending if I have berserk and the mob is Dia'd. As you can see, Swift Blade for me has been giving me better returns as it seems that Vorpal is too reliant on crits and berserk.

Either way, the majority of the members I cycle through were pretty psyched to see the mob dying so quick (by quick, I mean under 20 seconds) due to Darkness Skillchain, as it usually did over 300 damage granted that both the SAM and I weaponskilled for a high amount of damage. What surprised them most though was the fact that I never did under 150 damage.

This was never anything new to me, but it seems to be fairly new on my server. Oh well, at least I know that the people that been in my party will now sigh at PLDs doing 12 damage Vorpal Blades.
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#3 May 27 2009 at 10:54 PM Rating: Default
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http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8568/vorpalvsrampagehj0.jpg
@71

Your preaching to the choir here, except we don't look like a typical turtle in our TP sets :P


http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3338/ninjavorpal61xi1.jpg
did that on Nin @lvl 60-odd
#4 May 27 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
My SAM friend and I skillchain Darkness, which means I've been using Swift Blade


I counter your Darkness with:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2650/pldsavagebladexj2.jpg
#5 May 27 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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bimrog wrote:
Quote:
My SAM friend and I skillchain Darkness, which means I've been using Swift Blade


I counter your Darkness with:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2650/pldsavagebladexj2.jpg


Was that with 300 tp? >_>
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#6 May 27 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Pretty sad when i am keeping up with the actual DD's at one point. With no brd or cor, the drg landed a penta for 582 on a Puk, and i followed with a vorpal for 576.

And yeah, i know what you mean. Whenever i party with PLDs i am disgusted by their WS's. vorpal blades for 42 dmg, 150ish tops... since i ding 60 i've been turning heads and getting examined a LOT by my parties. Honestly, should see what i can do with my sidewinders on rng. this is nothing, but for now, on PLD, it will do.

Nice savage btw. 300 tp i take it?
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#7 May 27 2009 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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Was that with 300 tp?


I woulda Vorpal'd at anything less so probably. Gots to love amnesia.

How did you gain 100tp in 20 seconds? (would require ~69% haste ignoring shield/store tp)
How did you do 70-72 in 15 hours with a 20second fight time (~70k/15hr = ~4.7k/hr. Even if you were getting 150xp a mob, 20 second deaths would be 25k/hr+)
#8 May 28 2009 at 12:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aluus wrote:
Okay. if you check me when i am tping, i look like a typical turtle PLD aside from a few pieces. If you check me during a WS i am pimped like some warrior with a severe hard on for big numbers.


Not to sound like a dick, but why do you keep turtle gear on for TP but bust out the DD gear for WS?
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#9 May 28 2009 at 2:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Solrain wrote:
Aluus wrote:
Okay. if you check me when i am tping, i look like a typical turtle PLD aside from a few pieces. If you check me during a WS i am pimped like some warrior with a severe hard on for big numbers.


Not to sound like a dick, but why do you keep turtle gear on for TP but bust out the DD gear for WS?
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#10 May 28 2009 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
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well i do vorpal blade on campign mob, in average it is about 250 to 450 mark.

But there is this 1 times, i fighting the same orc mob in campign and i did this vorpal blade as /nin, and atm i was still puzzle how i did that, either i am very luck that all hit landed and critcal.

I just can't believe my eyes for a sec during that time. lol, it just suddently done a vorpal blade of 1076 damage on the orc. :P (btw the weapon is joy/justice, wear full haste + Acc gear)

After that, i never see that number again on vorpal blade.
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#11 May 28 2009 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
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seeing those vorpals is really nice :)
Good to see a paladin that not only tanks but also chips in with the DDing he can do. Yes its indeed rare to meet plds like that.
#12 May 28 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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bimrog wrote:
Quote:
Was that with 300 tp?

How did you gain 100tp in 20 seconds? (would require ~69% haste ignoring shield/store tp)
How did you do 70-72 in 15 hours with a 20second fight time (~70k/15hr = ~4.7k/hr. Even if you were getting 150xp a mob, 20 second deaths would be 25k/hr+)

As far as haste/store TP goes, I have a Euphoria Ring that gives me +1 Store TP (working on Chivarous). I usually ask the healer for Haste to speed up my attacks since I'm using Joyeuse. If I double-attack every swing, which happened alot, then I do get 100 TP in under 20 seconds, in which the SAM friend and I do Darkness SC as fast as possible to avoid Amniesa from the Imps. Of course, it happened sometimes, so not every fight was under 20 seconds.

I would've expected alot more exp from my party, but not everything was perfect. There were some problems, such as competition which didn't allow us to pull as quickly, and when I hit 71, we moved to Puks and Mamools, which turned out to be a bad idea since Imps gave more EXP and Mamools are asses, which caused me to die twice there. Also, at a point we had a JP bard, who wasn't a very good puller, and often worried about our WHM's MP. It wasn't until we eventually repped our brd (had to leave) with RDM, then repped our WHM (disconnected) with a SCH, then moved to Nyzul Isle's Caedevra Mire for Imps, that we were really getting quick and fast EXP, and that was when we were at the 13 hour mark. So basically our pulls were too slow, and we just never had the chance to get into a groove.
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#13 May 28 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's been expressed before, but since you've got the gear for DD, why are you turtling? If you're impressed with yourself now and turning the heads of your party members, you ought to try more DD in your tp set. That will blow you away, too, and provides better hate than the spikes that come with WS's.
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#15 May 28 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Drac said:
Quote:
It's been expressed before, but since you've got the gear for DD, why are you turtling? If you're impressed with yourself now and turning the heads of your party members, you ought to try more DD in your tp set. That will blow you away, too, and provides better hate than the spikes that come with WS's.


Only thing I can think of is he's overcamping a bit or his healer's putting up a sh*tstorm. If you're overcamping and have to wear turtle gear, swapping out for WS is at least better than nothing. If neither of these, then yar, leave it on! Macro the turtle (i'm assuming it's a lot of af) for JA's and go back to kickin ass!

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#16 May 28 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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I did exactly the opposite yesterday...

Lv synching down to 60 on SAM, helping a friend that needed a DD on the pt.

We had our first PLD, and i was tanking full time. I mean, full time. With a THF TAing on him. The PLD leaves, second one comes, and he open up with a 390 vorpal. I say in pt: Now thats someone who knows what hes doing on PLD.

Whole pt start asking why. Well, our pld was parsing a tiny bit lower than our DRK, and i was finally having to fight someone for hate on the pt...
#17 May 28 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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To everyone asking me why i am turtling, the simple reason is that i think my parties as of late have been overcamping a little. Even with defender up, IN TURTLE GEAR I've been getting smacked for 120-160 a hit when shield doesn't proc, and some TP moves have been shaving 25-40% my HP off in a single hit. Furthermore, my healers have been kinda lax (I've hit my Invincible a few times just cause i was not getting cured,) and my pullers lately have it in their heads that we're in a merit party, pulling the next mob before the last one dies, meaning me and the healer don't get to recover MP. The only enfeeble that's been used on the mob is my own flash. I won't even go into how many times i've had to party without any refresh. =/ Maybe it's just me, but i don't even remember getting my ass kicked this much on my ninja. If this is the norm from here on out on PLD let me know now and I'll just suck it up and deal with it. No one in my parties has been complaining. Hell, my DRK last night was overjoyed at being able to fire off souleater guillotines for 1kish without taking a beating for it, and i'm not talking about covering him either

Edited, May 28th 2009 12:43pm by Aluus
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#18 May 28 2009 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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As long as the tank is living and the party members aren't getting overly stressed (mainly healers), they'll let you tank naked.

It does sound like you're overcamping. Kudos on knowing how to maximize your potential.

I'll make one suggestion that will help you get to 75 faster - find a Healer that's on the ball and knows his job well and likes a _little_ stress in his life. Pair up with him. Grab another support job (backup healing + buffs, imo) and three DDs and find camps that you aren't over camping in and watch the XP flow in. When I made the change to DD PLD, I went from making 5-6k/hr to 15k/hr in the levels between 58 and 60. But, I'll admit that I had a mini static. PLD + RDM (both played by me) and THF + WHM (both played by my brother). We'd pick up two DDs (usually friends, but we didn't limit ourselves to that) and go to town. My original testing (the link in my sig) showed 500 xp/hr increase by mostly changing food and a few lower end equipment pieces. It just got better the more dedicated I got.
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#19 May 29 2009 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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Dropped a few DD jaws with this one XD


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7313/pol2009052820442050.jpg

This was at level 60. It's really fun having people in party who HAVE 75 PLD asking me to give em gear swap pointers

Edited, May 29th 2009 1:55am by Aluus
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#20 May 29 2009 at 4:28 AM Rating: Good
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Aluus wrote:
Dropped a few DD jaws with this one XD


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7313/pol2009052820442050.jpg

This was at level 60. It's really fun having people in party who HAVE 75 PLD asking me to give em gear swap pointers

Edited, May 29th 2009 1:55am by Aluus



Nicest part of that vorpal is the 280 penta on a flying mob just above it....


Seriously, PLD has the potential do do some pretty decent WS on pts. A+ skill, high D weapons, Berserk, Double Attack and a decent WS. Vorpal is only 0.5 D away from Rampage really, what skewer things is dual wield and that WARs almost always gear for DD while PLDs dont.
#21 May 29 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Aluus wrote:
Dropped a few DD jaws with this one XD


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7313/pol2009052820442050.jpg

This was at level 60. It's really fun having people in party who HAVE 75 PLD asking me to give em gear swap pointers

Edited, May 29th 2009 1:55am by Aluus



Nicest part of that vorpal is the 280 penta on a flying mob just above it....


Lol part of that is his "YO SLAPNUTS" provoke macro
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#22 May 29 2009 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I DD when pting and I can never pull numbers like that. Even with all my ACC gear on I miss like a mofo while tping, and I usually only vorpal for 100-200 damage. Sometimes less than 100 when I'm unlucky. If I'm fighting birds the situation is even worse.

But maybe that's what I get for having to use AH gear. I dont have any of the gear from beating CoP, ToAU, or RoZ. No Limbus or Salvage pieces, no Nyuzle.. so no atonement. Dont have any friends to do Assaults either, so no gear from those.

I have to depend on sh*t tons of +enmity to keep up with DD, but usually any decent sam or drk can rip it off me permanently.

Smart Grenade
Haubergeon
Fourth Division gauntlets
Royal Knight's breeches
Chivalrous Chain
Warwolf belt
Merman's earring
Suppanomimi
Woodsman Ring
Sniper's Ring
Company Sword
Iron Ram Shield
Walahra Turban
AF feet / Iron Ram feet
Amemet mantle+1

That's what I WS in, and tend to tp in as well. Though if the mob im fighting is too high I'll swap out alot of those pieces for IR gear.

Edited, May 29th 2009 9:25am by Stubwub
#23 May 29 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, here's what i was sporting for that vorpal, tp set/ws set. Keep in mind the tp set is turtlish gear

Main: T.M. Espadon+2 (AH has been out of bastard swords)
Sub: Sentinel Shield
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell
Head: AF/Sipahi Turban
Neck: Parade Gorget/Chivy Chain
Body: AF/Hauby
Hands: AF/Fourth Gauntlets
Legs: AF/Royal Knight's Breeches
Feet: AF/Sipahi Boots
Waist: Swift Belt/Potent Belt
Back: Royal Army Mantle (Swapped to Amemet+1 at 61)
L.Ring: Rajas
R.Ring: Ecphoria
R.Ear: Hospitaler Earring/Spike Earring
L.Ear: Buckler Earring/Spike Earring

For food i had marinara pizza+1 since the stuff's nearly as cheap as the NQ. I have no sword merits whatsoever (capped archery/marksmanship and 4 katana,) STR merits are only 1/5 atm, and crits are 3/4. I don't think i've merited since last year. I was zerked, and sporting a 7 Hunter's Roll and 6 Chaos Roll I believe. TP was less than 150. Now, my best vorpal so far without buffs/zerk has been 643, also at level 60 for comparison. Regarding the turtle gear i am wearing, i've been finding myself very dependant on curing myself, hence the hospitaler, and like i said in a previous post, my parties tend to over camp a little, and i don't get refresh too often, making the AF and parade gorget necessary. last night we were having to stop and let the whm get her mp back every 4-5 fights, even with evoker's roll on her due to the mobs playing rough and being hookers with that aoe knockback move. she couldn't even haste us she was hurting for mp so bad =/

Oh and regarding my voke macro? I've been using that line for 5 years now. I still can't think of a better way to pick a fight. XD

EDIT: Stub, this is gonna sound blasphemous here in the PLD forums and all, but here's my advice as a 75 Ninja. If your DD's wanna tank? Let em. Merit situations there's not a single tank on all the servers that will keep hate fulltime unless his DD's are really sh*tty. Case in point? I can break 3k with Sidewinder on the sea puks at mamool ja staging point with a brd backing me. At that point if it ain't dead yet, all you can do is cover me and wait for me to finish killing it.

Edited, May 29th 2009 10:16am by Aluus
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#24 May 29 2009 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Stubwub wrote:
I have to depend on sh*t tons of +enmity to keep up with DD, but usually any decent sam or drk can rip it off me permanently.

A good DD will prepare themselves when they take hate. A bad DD will just WS and full-time hasso like an idiot.

It is rather unlikely for a PLD to keep hate full-time throughout an entire battle, but what really matters is that the party keeps going full speed with minimum rest.
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#25 May 29 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Aluus wrote:
Well, here's what i was sporting for that vorpal, tp set/ws set. Keep in mind the tp set is turtlish gear

Main: T.M. Espadon+2 (AH has been out of bastard swords)
Sub: Sentinel Shield
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell Get a Smart Grenade (it's free)
Head: AF/Sipahi Turban
Neck: Parade Gorget/Chivalrous Chain Parade Gorget for between pulls
Body: AF/Hauby This has just as much defense practically as your AF.
Hands: AF/Fourth Gauntlets
Legs: AF/Royal Knight's Breeches
Feet: AF/Sipahi Boots This is fine
Waist: Swift Belt/Potent Belt
Back: Royal Army Mantle (Swapped to Amemet+1 at 61)
L.Ring: Rajas
R.Ring: Ecphoria
R.Ear: Hospitaler Earring/Spike Earring Macro Hospitaler into Cures
L.Ear: Buckler Earring/Spike Earring


ftfy
Full time that and macro in your enmity pieces into your job abilities.
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#26 May 29 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Dynas wrote:
Aluus wrote:
Well, here's what i was sporting for that vorpal, tp set/ws set. Keep in mind the tp set is turtlish gear

Main: T.M. Espadon+2 (AH has been out of bastard swords)
Sub: Sentinel Shield
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell Get a Smart Grenade (it's free)
Head: AF/Sipahi Turban
Neck: Parade Gorget/Chivalrous Chain Parade Gorget for between pulls
Body: AF/Hauby This has just as much defense practically as your AF.
Hands: AF/Fourth Gauntlets
Legs: AF/Royal Knight's Breeches
Feet: AF/Sipahi Boots This is fine
Waist: Swift Belt/Potent Belt
Back: Royal Army Mantle (Swapped to Amemet+1 at 61)
L.Ring: Rajas
R.Ring: Ecphoria
R.Ear: Hospitaler Earring/Spike Earring Macro Hospitaler into Cures
L.Ear: Buckler Earring/Spike Earring


ftfy
Full time that and macro in your enmity pieces into your job abilities.


Appreciate it, but i didn't ask. i know how to gear for DD. I swap into the DD gear, including a smart grenade once the sync gets high enough that we're not overcamping. once i hit 61 noticed a sharp drop in how hard the puks were smacking me and put on my DD set, with enmity gear swaps. i just find the AF to be better for keeping hate when i'm overcamping and getting the sh*t knocked outa me. also, whms scream at me if i blink too much =/

Edited, May 29th 2009 12:34pm by Aluus
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#27 May 29 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Default
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Aluus if the whm scream about blinking, scream back at them to learn to use macros/or how to macro.

blinking doesnt effect those that have their macros setup properly.
#28 May 29 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Default
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Aluus wrote:
last night we were having to stop and let the whm get her mp back every 4-5 fights, even with evoker's roll on her due to the mobs playing rough and being hookers with that aoe knockback move. she couldn't even haste us she was hurting for mp so bad =/


Just thought I'd pop in again and see if anything's changed (it hasn't) and I noticed this.

Your WHM should have been hasting everybody including you and herself, got a double Flash rotation going, used Regen II, and your party would've been taking virtually no damage, regardless if you were overcamping or not, especially if your DDs got Sanction Regen. I used to get the food bonus, eat a 3 hour attack food while still in Whitegate for anything but lolibri, and then grab the regen, because why not?

Not hasting your party resulted in slower fights. She used her MP to cure instead of increase XP, always a bad choice. Quit overhunting if you can't coordinate a flash cycle with a WHM and you'll be happy you did.

Oh and since you said puks, make sure not to cast Dia on Lightsday if you really can't keep up, and that will stop those TP moves from happening so much.

Both of you could have also drank juice since it looks like there was a COR and no RDM. My advice as a retired 75 NIN is to spend that gil for better XP/hr, regardless of what job you walk out from your mog house as. If you're going to spend your time playing this game, might as well do it right and throw gil at those mobs. If the party's that bad, don't use the juice. Not like it should break the bank. LOL




Edited, May 29th 2009 6:31pm by ScarShiva
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#29 May 29 2009 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Highest vorpal blade these days is somewhere around 1600, that really got peoples attention. I do have full ares from my Dark Knight though, which is out of most peoples reach. Pre-Ares, I think my highest was an 870 vorpal vs crawlers on Mount Zhayolm at level 66.
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#30 May 30 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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Appreciate it, but i didn't ask.


Maybe not specifically, but the setup I outlined should help you with the problems you've been going on about. The setup I outlined while not the absolute best setup ever, but perfectly acceptable in a VT-low IT situation.

Basically from 60 on you should avoid turtling up at all costs unless you enjoy having slower xp and lackluster performance at mitigating damage. At this point in the game VIT and DEF become lol. I'm sure you know the story if you've lurked on these boards enough. Besides you basically have the same defense with your DD gear on anyhow.

Dracoth wrote:
It's been expressed before, but since you've got the gear for DD, why are you turtling? If you're impressed with yourself now and turning the heads of your party members, you ought to try more DD in your tp set. That will blow you away, too, and provides better hate than the spikes that come with WS's.


Dracoth sums it up here, all I'm saying is you're doing well, here's how you make it even better because your DD's are only going to get stronger and by the time you hit 70 if you're turtling up with competent DD's it's going to end up embarrassing (I speak from experience, sadly).
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#31 May 30 2009 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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Dynas wrote:
Basically from 60 on you should avoid turtling up at all costs unless you enjoy having slower xp and lackluster performance at mitigating damage. At this point in the game VIT and DEF become lol. I'm sure you know the story if you've lurked on these boards enough. Besides you basically have the same defense with your DD gear on anyhow.

I slightly disagree with this statement only because in the majority of the parties I've been in there has been cases of overcamping, as well as "oh sh*t" situations.

As much as I advocate DD gear in my parties and surprised people with my hate holding through damage, there has been times where I had to pull up turtle gear to lessen my damage. Not because I was losing hate, but it was because I was bleeding all over the place and becoming an mp sink (case in point, Mamool Ja Staging Point... too many close calls with firespit).

Overcamping is a simple case of "GTFO", but there are times when going the old school route is better if just to keep the party on their feet.

Edited, May 31st 2009 2:19am by CarthRDM
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#32 May 31 2009 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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As much as I advocate DD gear in my parties and surprised people with my hate holding through damage, there has been times where I had to pull up turtle gear to lessen my damage. Not because I was losing hate, but it was because I was bleeding all over the place and becoming an mp sink


I slightly agree with you cause I did the same thing back when I was leveling but reflecting back upon those days I wish I hadn't and gone straight DD now.

Now I wouldn't advocate being stupid and throwing on berserk when you're about to die just so you can WS that much harder or something akin to that and in your example you did the right thing, but my point I suppose was aimed in general to try and avoid the situations where you will be overcamping to aim for the VT-low IT climate of monsters.

Now I know sh*t happens and not ever situation is perfect and you should always adjust accordingly but even still know you'd be better off in a better environment with your DD equips not just for you but for you party as a whole.
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#33 Jun 02 2009 at 6:14 AM Rating: Default
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CarthRDM wrote:
Dynas wrote:
Basically from 60 on you should avoid turtling up at all costs unless you enjoy having slower xp and lackluster performance at mitigating damage. At this point in the game VIT and DEF become lol. I'm sure you know the story if you've lurked on these boards enough. Besides you basically have the same defense with your DD gear on anyhow.

I slightly disagree with this statement only because in the majority of the parties I've been in there has been cases of overcamping, as well as "oh sh*t" situations.

As much as I advocate DD gear in my parties and surprised people with my hate holding through damage, there has been times where I had to pull up turtle gear to lessen my damage. Not because I was losing hate, but it was because I was bleeding all over the place and becoming an mp sink (case in point, Mamool Ja Staging Point... too many close calls with firespit).

Overcamping is a simple case of "GTFO", but there are times when going the old school route is better if just to keep the party on their feet.


You want to go the old school route? Take off your shield so you get used to constant, consistent damage taken from each and every hit. Strap on every last bit of +VIT gear you can, swap out to Dark Staff and rest MP after using Spirits Within every 3rd fight. You might just be able to get enough ticks of MP to make it to that elusive chain 5! Oh wow, you hit a chain 6! Must be in a JP party. Eat Tavnazian Tacos (Steamed Crab if you're going back far enough) in every possible tanking situation.

The old school route is never a good way to go. Here's the rule for tanking in XP parties as far as I'm concerned- wear the most damaging gear you can and get everything else you need from food, whether it's ACC, ATK, or DEF. I prefer avoiding overcamping situations rather than eating DEF foods, and if DEF foods aren't enough, it's an extreme overcamping situation.

As far as Firespit goes, it's not always a physical attack. I think you'd do your party more favors by eating Carbonara for the HP boost and swapping in some Magic Defense/Magic Damage Reduction% on the mage Mamools if you're that worried about it(Leave Hauby on at all times though). High HP foods makes Regen II/III more efficient as well.

P.S. If you're bloodtanking Mamools, you're going to be an MP sink even at 75. If you've got a pro backline, you can be an MP sink, because you're the pro frontline using Utsusemi or Hasso/Seigan/Third Eye effectively or your party's got so much high end gear, you're obliterating the mobs faster than you can bleed HP. And in the best of these parties, people go down to Firespit from time to time, and the BRD keeps pulling.
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#34 Jun 02 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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You make it sound as if I don't know about old-school tanking at all, when in fact I have first-hand experience since I've been playing since 2004. >_>

I am not saying I went full-route turtle at it. When we fight puks I go full DD and don't give a damn about hate, but when it comes to Mamools I put on full tank gear, use my WS gear for Vorpal, and everyone's happy and dandy.

I am also not saying that a PLD should go turtle for those type of situations. Obviously if your party is not full of retards who think pld/nin is idiotic, then you can /nin and do all you can, but my nin job is 27 and I don't plan on leveling it anytime soon as plenty of RL situations are coming up, so I'm pressed to go /war and berserk it up.

I just analyze the situation and work with what is best for the abilities that I have. If I have to turtle to allow my party to pull constantly instead of resting, then I'll be damned if I don't. Just like when the large majority thought Turtle PLD was the only way, not every method is set in stone.
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#35 Jun 02 2009 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I "cheated" and made warburns a some of the way to 75 on PLD. I had conventional parties most of the time, but once I got to 60-61 and that next sword merit kicked in, plus haub and amemet +1, I started being able to put up some really solid DPS /nin. I'd usually invite a ninja to "tank" and a couple of war/nins. This was, of course, before the 2hand buff.

From 60 on my vorpals were probably averaging 400-450 /nin, and spiking 500-600. Sadly the harddive with the parses on it crashed... anyway, point is, once you hit 60, pld really does get quite a bit of DD potential.

At 75 in mire my vorpals probably average 500-600, and spike 800-1100 with a bard. Ironically my best vorpal was on WAR @71 on a sea puk at mamoolja staging point. (1100 even) I've done better on PLD, but it was against a jnun, and they take bonus slashing damage.
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<tarutaru> semi-retired
Main Jobs: 75RDM (sept? 05) - 75BLM (July? 06) - 75WAR (feb ~14 07) 75 PLD (may ~2 07) 75 BLU (jan 08) 75 DRK (~feb 08)
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I do not have pup unlocked.
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#36 Jun 05 2009 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Pardon my PLD newbishness, but wouldn't it make sense to use DD gear when overcamping, too? I mean, the higher level the mob is relative to you, the more level correction comes into play, and the less important your vit and def become. It seems to me that DD gear should always be superior - at T-VT levels because of the damage you can put out, and at IT+ levels because you can't mitigate damage worth a shit at that point anyway.

Is that a bad assumption?
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#37 Jun 05 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Drexis wrote:
Pardon my PLD newbishness, but wouldn't it make sense to use DD gear when overcamping, too? I mean, the higher level the mob is relative to you, the more level correction comes into play, and the less important your vit and def become. It seems to me that DD gear should always be superior - at T-VT levels because of the damage you can put out, and at IT+ levels because you can't mitigate damage worth a shit at that point anyway.

Is that a bad assumption?


Yes and no.

Technically yes more DD gear would allow you to deal better damage, especially once LCF is taken into account.

No, because the monster is higher level then you it gets a greater LCF ~against~ your defense. Yes LCF works both ways (at least for monsters). This means you need greater defense to at least floor pDiff (mobs cheat buy ignoring defense after their pDiff hits a lower limit). Usually this is just a few pieces of gear, and possibly involved ... defender /shudders.

Really shouldn't be overcamping....
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Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#38 Jun 07 2009 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Drexis wrote:
Pardon my PLD newbishness, but wouldn't it make sense to use DD gear when overcamping, too? I mean, the higher level the mob is relative to you, the more level correction comes into play, and the less important your vit and def become. It seems to me that DD gear should always be superior - at T-VT levels because of the damage you can put out, and at IT+ levels because you can't mitigate damage worth a sh*t at that point anyway.

Is that a bad assumption?


You're still taking increasing damage as the level gap between yourself and the mob increases. It's true that you can cap it, but in regular armor, especially once you factor in protect and the native defense bonuses of Paladins, this is unlikely to happen on anything you'd actually fight for exp.

Because you take increasing damage as the level gap widens, you run into a new problem. The hate balance begins to shift. Because physical damage taken reduces your hate, as you take more damage, you lose hate faster. If you take enough damage that the healers are having to do the vast majority of the curing, they're also earning the vast majority of the curing hate, often causing them to take hate.

As long as you can hold hate and don't stress the mage's MP, it's perfectly fine to use DD gear on overcamping mobs. Even if you do have to start being more conservative in your gear against higher level mobs, try to stay away from defender when possible, and look for def over vit, especially once you get past level 60 or so.
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<tarutaru> semi-retired
Main Jobs: 75RDM (sept? 05) - 75BLM (July? 06) - 75WAR (feb ~14 07) 75 PLD (may ~2 07) 75 BLU (jan 08) 75 DRK (~feb 08)
Full Subs: 62WHM/38THF/42NIN/51BRD/RNG37/SAM37/44COR/37BST/37SCH
In Progress subs: 16MNK/21SMN/21DRG/30DNC
I do not have pup unlocked.
Ragnarok

MargavineLiselle wrote:
Alright, I'm tired of being civil, and now I'm tired of being sarcastically condescending, too.

lolgaxe wrote:
Whining about having to farm is so 2004.
#39 Aug 05 2009 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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How did you gain 100tp in 20 seconds? (would require ~69% haste ignoring shield/store tp)
How did you do 70-72 in 15 hours with a 20second fight time (~70k/15hr = ~4.7k/hr. Even if you were getting 150xp a mob, 20 second deaths would be 25k/hr+)


He won't. This is called BS. 20s deaths also means no mobs to continue chains consistently, much less gain enough TP to do a WS each fight.
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