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#1 Jun 06 2009 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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What stats should we focus on? VIT like everyone else? or is there some special tactic to being a pld taru?
#2 Jun 06 2009 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Play like most every other PLD. I strongly recommend DD style even from the lowly level of 10 (I've been doing it sync'd, even though I was traditional for a long time). Here's my DD PLD guide. If you want to play the traditional route, look in the sticky for the other guides. If you don't go DD from the beginning, make sure you at least try it out once you start hitting the 50's and move over to ToAU areas.

As a Taru, the biggest asset you have is a larger mp pool. Use it, and you'll do fine.
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#3 Jun 06 2009 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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#4 Jun 06 2009 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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cool ok thanks
#5 Jun 06 2009 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Peachgirl wrote:
What stats should we focus on? VIT like everyone else? or is there some special tactic to being a pld taru?


No one focuses on vit anymore......unless they plain don't know wtf they're doing.
#6 Jun 07 2009 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Asdrabael wrote:
Peachgirl wrote:
What stats should we focus on? VIT like everyone else? or is there some special tactic to being a pld taru?


No one focuses on vit anymore......unless they plain don't know wtf they're doing.


Quoted for Truth.
Defensively, focus on shield. Any time you're /war tanking, Shield Skill is your best friend. Avoid overcamping, and gear offensively to control hate more effectively.
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#7 Jun 07 2009 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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Asdrabael wrote:
Peachgirl wrote:
What stats should we focus on? VIT like everyone else? or is there some special tactic to being a pld taru?


No one focuses on vit anymore......unless they plain don't know wtf they're doing.


Looks like 90% of my server doesn't know what they're doing. >_>
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#8 Jun 07 2009 at 6:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like 90% of my server doesn't know what they're doing. >_>


Yeah, just because everyone does it doesn't make it right though.
Why do I sound like a drug commercial?
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#9 Jun 07 2009 at 7:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dynas wrote:
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Looks like 90% of my server doesn't know what they're doing. >_>


Yeah, just because everyone does it doesn't make it right though.
Why do I sound like a drug commercial?


Que the more you know picture, stat!
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#10 Jun 07 2009 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like 90% of my server doesn't know what they're doing. >_>


Real QFT.
#11 Jun 09 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Taru's best asset: MP
Taru's largest hindrance: HP

In exp 1-75, you should have no problems as a taru PLD, except maybe if you get an unlucky Sickle Slash, or Incinerate [no one ever wants to fight anything but colibri though.]

In endgame, HP will be your only issue, but not one that cannot be overcome. I have 1800 hp as Elvaan PLD/NIN. Byakko can get me low very quickly. That is the only thing that might be a problem. However, the main issue is ANY badass PLD will get killed if the backline/support jobs suck ass. A good timely stun, a quick WHM, having haste/marchx2, and a good co-tank makes ANY RACE of PLD much better than if the backline is afk looking at porn. You should be fine as taru PLD if you and your backline play adequately.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 11:35am by Palides
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#12 Jun 09 2009 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Palides wrote:
Taru's best asset: MP
Taru's largest hindrance: HP

In exp 1-75, you should have no problems as a taru PLD, except maybe if you get an unlucky Sickle Slash, or Incinerate [no one ever wants to fight anything but colibri though.]

In endgame, HP will be your only issue, but not one that cannot be overcome. I have 1800 hp as Elvaan PLD/NIN. Byakko can get me low very quickly. That is the only thing that might be a problem. However, the main issue is ANY badass PLD will get killed if the backline/support jobs suck ass. A good timely stun, a quick WHM, having haste/marchx2, and a good co-tank makes ANY RACE of PLD much better than if the backline is afk looking at porn. You should be fine as taru PLD if you and your backline play adequately.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 11:35am by Palides


Without focusing on HP, my taru paladin idles in 1390 hp now before food and its never been a problem on any mob in the game. We had this argument a couple months ago in detail about taru hp. Scroll back 2-3 pages.
#13 Jun 09 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Myself wrote:
In endgame, HP will be your only issue, but not one that cannot be overcome.


You didn't read the post at all, eh? lol

Does having the lowest HP hurt taru's in taking endgame? No.

Does it help to have higher HP for ENM loss, and annoying TP moves/Citadel Buster/-agaIV etc, etc? Yes. [and this can be accomplished via gear swaps.

Can Taru PLD tank anything a Galka/Elvaan can tank? Yes.

Never said it would be tough, just a little harder for a brand new Taru PLD, not a taru PLD as well geared and experienced as yourself.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 2:33pm by Palides
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#14 Jun 10 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Palides wrote:
Taru's best asset: MP
Taru's largest hindrance: HP

In exp 1-75, you should have no problems as a taru PLD, except maybe if you get an unlucky Sickle Slash, or Incinerate [no one ever wants to fight anything but colibri though.]

In endgame, HP will be your only issue, but not one that cannot be overcome. I have 1800 hp as Elvaan PLD/NIN. Byakko can get me low very quickly. That is the only thing that might be a problem. However, the main issue is ANY badass PLD will get killed if the backline/support jobs suck ass. A good timely stun, a quick WHM, having haste/marchx2, and a good co-tank makes ANY RACE of PLD much better than if the backline is afk looking at porn. You should be fine as taru PLD if you and your backline play adequately.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 11:35am by Palides


Thank you for giving me an explicit answer instead of telling me how dumb i am for asking like everyone else has.
#15 Jun 10 2009 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
Dracoth wrote:
Dynas wrote:
Quote:
Looks like 90% of my server doesn't know what they're doing. >_>


Yeah, just because everyone does it doesn't make it right though.
Why do I sound like a drug commercial?


Que the more you know picture, stat!


Done.
Screenshot


I find the taru "advantage" of more max mp to be overrated. Outside of the first initial 5 mins, max mp is meaningless. It's all about the mp recovery rate and no race has an advantage there. AS more max HP, now that pld/nin has been perfected, a lot of the "deadly TP moves" can be negated by shadows, so HP really isn't much of a factor. But, there are some moves, like Citadel Buster that are must easier to survive with more HP. Then again, no matter what you do or how much HP you got, sh*t hits the fan sometimes and you die. There ain't much you can do to survive a 2.4k attack

But outside endgame, taru plds should focus on what other plds do: acc, haste and shield skill. By the time you reach endgame, hopefully you'll have a feel as to what you need to focus on.
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#16 Jul 05 2009 at 2:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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HP isn't an issue for me. However, I eat Carbonara to make up for my disadvantage.

With my usual tank setup with Carbonara, I idle at about 1420 HP and 670 MP.
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#17 Jul 05 2009 at 2:40 AM Rating: Default
Whats this about no one focuses on VIT anymore? Is that not why people wear Koenig gear?
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#18 Jul 05 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whats this about no one focuses on VIT anymore? Is that not why people wear Koenig gear?


/facepalm
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#19 Jul 05 2009 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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You should focus on haste and Atonement TP like everyone else.

As far as HP goes I vary a bit depending on what I'm doing. In Sky I usually have 1530hp idle as a hume vs anything that can kill me if something goes wrong (Kirin, Byakko, Suzy). A DRK/NIN in +dmg taken gear tould tank Genbu or Seiryu as well as I could.

Overall just be a little more careful than your Elvaan buddies when swapping gear that will lower your hp. Find some numbers you feel comfortable with vs any actual dangerous NM and don't swap below that.
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#20 Jul 05 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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steveosr wrote:
Whats this about no one focuses on VIT anymore? Is that not why people wear Koenig gear?
no, it's not why people wear Koenig gear, people wear Koenig gear because they're morons
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#21 Jul 05 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lucinus wrote:
steveosr wrote:
Whats this about no one focuses on VIT anymore? Is that not why people wear Koenig gear?
no, it's not why people wear Koenig gear, people wear Koenig gear because they're morons
Slight derail. It seems some VIT PLDs on my server were Moogle Bonanza winners. Saw a couple PLDs equipped with Hauteclaires along with Knightly Mantles, Unyielding Rings, Ritter Shields, Drone Earrings and etc...

/facepalm
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#22 Jul 05 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Doesn't mean they were Bonanza winners, but it certainly doesn't help our case much...
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#23 Jul 05 2009 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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I won Rank 3, but I chose the BCD voucher for my SCH.

You wouldn't believe how many people berated me for not getting a Hauteclaire. To put it simply... it's a situational /WAR piece and I wasn't going to benefit by having one.
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#24 Jul 05 2009 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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Its more than a situational /war piece. Its pretty much a situational "anytime you're not spamming tp" piece, which can be quite a few situations depending on the support you have available and the mob in question.

Joy and beavertail aren't the only 2 useful pld swords in the game anymore, and atonement doesn't rule every single fight in every single situation. I'd be berating you too.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 10:15pm by Asdrabael
#25 Jul 05 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know about you, but considering how I'm PLD/NIN most of the time, -7% Physical Damage Taken is next to useless because of shadows. The Enmity+4 from the Chainsaw +1 is much more effective for my play style.
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#26 Jul 06 2009 at 4:26 AM Rating: Good
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Tyjet wrote:
I don't know about you, but considering how I'm PLD/NIN most of the time, -7% Physical Damage Taken is next to useless because of shadows. The Enmity+4 from the Chainsaw +1 is much more effective for my play style.


I don't know about you, but I'm /nin most of the time too and if you can notice +4 enmity that much then you're doing something wrong.

Saying haute is useless when it has -7 damage and +7 accuracy (still good for building tp on fights you can't spam tp on for chivalry) when compared to beavertail with +4 enmity and -4 accuracy is like saying shadow mantle is useless when you already have High Breath Mantle. Enmity isn't always useful, even while /nin.

Considering the glut of enmity you can get in literally every single other slot, it makes haute the better sword for any mob you're not using joyeuse on. sh*ts situational, but unless you're kiting then beavertail is mostly a piece of sh*t if you have a haute. You can get tons of enmity, its harder to get -physical damage.
#27 Jul 06 2009 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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Asdrabael wrote:
Tyjet wrote:
I don't know about you, but considering how I'm PLD/NIN most of the time, -7% Physical Damage Taken is next to useless because of shadows. The Enmity+4 from the Chainsaw +1 is much more effective for my play style.


I don't know about you, but I'm /nin most of the time too and if you can notice +4 enmity that much then you're doing something wrong.

Saying haute is useless when it has -7 damage and +7 accuracy (still good for building tp on fights you can't spam tp on for chivalry) when compared to beavertail with +4 enmity and -4 accuracy is like saying shadow mantle is useless when you already have High Breath Mantle. Enmity isn't always useful, even while /nin.

Considering the glut of enmity you can get in literally every single other slot, it makes haute the better sword for any mob you're not using joyeuse on. sh*ts situational, but unless you're kiting then beavertail is mostly a piece of sh*t if you have a haute. You can get tons of enmity, its harder to get -physical damage.
that, and increased DoT tends to make up for the enmity loss in its own way at any rate
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#28 Jul 06 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't know about you, but I'm /nin most of the time too and if you can notice +4 enmity that much then you're doing something wrong.

Saying haute is useless when it has -7 damage and +7 accuracy (still good for building tp on fights you can't spam tp on for chivalry) when compared to beavertail with +4 enmity and -4 accuracy is like saying shadow mantle is useless when you already have High Breath Mantle. Enmity isn't always useful, even while /nin.

+7 Accuracy is pretty useless to me because, in most cases, I'm wearing Homam hands, legs, and feet for haste (and in the case of the legs, Fast Cast). Because the legs and feet do not have any Enmity on them, I need to compensate for it by using the Chainsaw +1. On top of this, I don't have a swift belt, so I'm stuck in Walmart Turban most of the time. Unless I'm tanking something with friends, such as tier 4 ZNMs, I usually do not have double marches because the LS I'm in is experiencing a bard shortage. As such, I have make up for the haste myself.
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#29 Jul 06 2009 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Thats what gear-swaps are for.

And +7 acc is never useless just because you have homam......I'm at a loss to even respond to this without being insulting.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 3:34pm by Asdrabael
#30 Jul 06 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I try to limit my gear swapping as much as possible because it often results in my death due to my healers being unable to target me due to excessive blinking.
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#31 Jul 06 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Tyjet wrote:
I try to limit my gear swapping as much as possible because it often results in my death due to my healers being unable to target me due to excessive blinking.


Um... I can think of a way to remedy this that will take approximately 3 minutes of your healers' time, forever. Seriously, how can people complain about blinking?
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#32 Jul 06 2009 at 7:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just using Homam Hands/Legs/Feet is not nearly enough ACC to be CLOSE to capped ACC on anything you should be Atonement-spamming.

Even with 304 Sword, ~ +47ACC, minor DEX bonuses from gear, and Dorado Sushi, I'm not even capped on Proto-Ultima, I'm around 82%, so I would need a large chunk more to cap out. So the +7 ACC from Hauteclaire is far from useless.

I'll say that I don't intend to get one, I don't personally feel that I NEED one and I feel that a lot of PLDs only use it over a Joytoy when Joy would be more useful because it's a HNM drop and Joytoy isn't. That doesn't mean that it's not useful, but it's certainly overrated. (Good sword, useful, not the end-all that people make it out to be)

As for your healers not being able to cure you, they really need to take a few minutes and update their macros to <stal>, or make a dedicated set with your name. It's insanely simple to do and it allows you go buck-wild with your gear swaps, you can be as anal as you want, swapping out for the major and minor increases on every action to you take, without ever worrying about dying from blinking.

That's an old argument that only lazy healers can defend now, and I'd prefer not to have a lazy healer in the first place, they make me dead way more than blinking :P
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#33 Jul 06 2009 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with lazy healers for most of my end game events.

Also, I don't have Atonement yet because I'm still in the process of climbing Nyzul, so gearing for accuracy isn't a priority for me at this time. However, once I acquire it, I have intentions of gearing for accuracy, but I do not have the desire to add Hauteclaire in the kit because I think Joyeuse would ultimately, in my case, be more useful for gaining TP.
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#34 Jul 06 2009 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tyjet wrote:
Unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with lazy healers for most of my end game events.

Also, I don't have Atonement yet because I'm still in the process of climbing Nyzul, so gearing for accuracy isn't a priority for me at this time. However, once I acquire it, I have intentions of gearing for accuracy, but I do not have the desire to add Hauteclaire in the kit because I think Joyeuse would ultimately, in my case, be more useful for gaining TP.


I can't help with your healer problems, perhaps just mentioning to them would be enough?

As for your TP, even without Atonement, being able to dump all that TP into Chivalry or even Spirits Within works wonders.

I've parsed a solid 14% of a Proto-Ultima fight, with a full alliance there, while tanking, on PLD/NIN using Spirits Within, and I used Chivalry.
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#35 Jul 07 2009 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Tyjet wrote:
Unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with lazy healers for most of my end game events.

Also, I don't have Atonement yet because I'm still in the process of climbing Nyzul, so gearing for accuracy isn't a priority for me at this time. However, once I acquire it, I have intentions of gearing for accuracy, but I do not have the desire to add Hauteclaire in the kit because I think Joyeuse would ultimately, in my case, be more useful for gaining TP.


If you actually read what I wrote, Haute isn't part of an atonement set. Haute is the best non-atonement sword you can use unless you're kiting (and its debatable there). It has accuracy and higher damage meaning less chance of 0's for building tp for chivalry, with -7% damage for if shadows drop and you get smacked around.

This isn't a hard concept to wrap your head around (or it shouldn't be anyway). Enmity is mostly only useful until you cap hate. This should take you roughly 5 minutes to do with a basic mostly AH set. After that, you really don't need enmity to maintain it because unless you start taking lots of damage your only hate loss is shadows and between melee hits (even using haute over joyeuse) and flash you can stay capped. If you do take damage(which haute reduces unless its magic and makes you lose LESS hate than otherwise), you can get enough enmity from gear excluding sword completely to recap your hate in a couple cures. The 4 enmity with the added negative impact of -4 accuracy and sh*tty damage makes it really not a very good sword if you can get better alternatives like haute for non-atonement situations.

Will a joyeuse beat a haute for a majority of fights? Yes. Will the minority of fights where you -don't- use joyeuse be better served using a haute over a beavertail +1? Yes. This is common sense talking if you have even a minor understanding of how hate works.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 12:27pm by Asdrabael
#36 Jul 07 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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You seem to dismiss the usefulness of Macaroni +1 though Asdrabael. Tyjet doesn't even have a Hauteclaire first off. So what should he use? A Company Sword is the highest base damage sword in the game in a full party. Would that serve him better?

Or would the +4 enmity help him? In this particular situation, since he idles in Homam due to his healers lack of skill/blink-me-not, Machete +1 will give him more enmity overall to play around with.

So what's the point here?

Asdrabael wrote:
The 4 enmity with the added negative impact of -4 accuracy and sh*tty damage makes it really not a very good sword if you can get better alternatives like haute for non-atonement situations.


That's the point, what's the alternative to someone who doesn't have a Hauteclaire? Most likely a Joyeuse, but Joyeuse isn't the be-all-end-all answer and Tyjet feels he needs more enmity in his set. Also, Macuahaitl +1 has 2 more base damage than a Joyeuse anywho.

So I see no reason why +4 enmity, or +4% enmity, is such a bad trade-off for 1-2% less acc on something you're never going to cap your acc on anyway.

Also, not everyone uses windower or even plays on PC, so you can't always count on people to use super windower macros to switch out every single piece of gear to maximize their performance. It'd be great if we could but that's not realistic.

So as such people like me who play on 360 I use somewhat of a hybrid set like Tyjet does so I can crank out a bit more enmity out of my TP set because I also don't have Atonement, and every bit of enmity I can get is more flexibility for my Alliance.

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#37 Jul 07 2009 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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What started this, was he -did- have the option to get haute and he gave it up for an easy to get northlands dynamic piece, which was the sch beauc piece. The new job af's drop pretty commonly, which means he gave up a very good paladin and rare paladin piece, for a relatively easy to obtain scholar piece.

And he was bragging on how everyone else was wrong for going "WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?".

As for the gear swaps, you can make ingame macrosets on ps2 and xbox360 that can switch all your gear by having macros call other macros, and each macro switching 5 pieces of gear. Its more work, but its the exact same and performs better than just making a halfass hybrid set. What would you say if a melee DD wore a hybrid str/attack set for tp AND ws? They'd be considered gimp for not making an appropriate tp set and ws set and macroing between them no matter what system they're on. The same holds true for tanking.

#38 Jul 07 2009 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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What started this, was he -did- have the option to get haute and he gave it up for an easy to get northlands dynamic piece, which was the sch beauc piece. The new job af's drop pretty commonly, which means he gave up a very good paladin and rare paladin piece, for a relatively easy to obtain scholar piece.

I am currently not in a dynamis linkshell. Argute Gown is an excellent piece of equipment because it, in theory, makes Sublimation more efficient than Refresh. My last dynamis linkshell rarely did Northlands or Dreamlands because of sponsors, and even then, they found some way to detour a northlands run into an attestation or fragment run.

Quote:
And he was bragging on how everyone else was wrong for going "WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?".

I wasn't bragging. Or at least, it wasn't my intention.

Quote:
As for the gear swaps, you can make ingame macrosets on ps2 and xbox360 that can switch all your gear by having macros call other macros, and each macro switching 5 pieces of gear. Its more work, but its the exact same and performs better than just making a halfass hybrid set. What would you say if a melee DD wore a hybrid str/attack set for tp AND ws? They'd be considered gimp for not making an appropriate tp set and ws set and macroing between them no matter what system they're on. The same holds true for tanking.

There's a difference between having equipment macros for switching between TP, WS, etc. gear and blinking like a Christmas tree for every single little action you do. As awesome as BlinkMeNot and <stal> are, many healers do not use either. You wouldn't believe how many times I've died because of healers not using either of them.
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