PLD advice on gearFollow

Im a lv 64 mithra pld on asura...

Im using:

Full PLD AF
Gluttony sword
Iron ram shield
bibiki seashell
insomnia/ant-venom earrings
unyielding/phalanx ring
knightly mantle
warriors belt +1

cant keep hate in for some reason when partying on colibris (of course im partying with either 2 sams, 2 drgs, or a drk that spams ws like mad)...vorpal blade is usually a hit or miss.... sometimes its under 100dmg sometimes its 350dmg...i dont think i dont do enough dmg to keep hate in? im not entirely sure...

should i consider about switching over to DD gear or switch certain pieces to dd pieces? i do have hauby, amemet mantle +1, chiv chain in my mh...

To be brief, you are wearing the wrong gear. Instead of idling in enmity gear, macro it into spells and job abilities, and ideal in TP gear that will enable you to do more damage and thus hold hate over time without *at all* diminishing your capacity to take hits and tank. This becomes even more the case once you're 75 with shadows. Dracoth's guide is a good place to start: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=5;mid=1233346583105541943;num=62;page=1. There are other reasons to wear DD gear that it covers, but it sounds like right now you're just leveling so that's the logic I focused on.

Here's the short version:

Full PLD AF -- everything is trash to idle in except for the boots. You can use them as macro pieces. Wear your Haubergeon, RK Breeches, something like Fourth Gauntlets (until Dusk or Askar), and at least something like Walkure Mask for head.

Gluttony sword -- garbahje. Company Fleuret is a cheap option that will take you til Company Sword at 70 (and after all, 66-70 takes little time these days).

Iron ram shield -- now you've got the right idea.

bibiki seashell -- go quest for a smart grenade, will take you 30 minutes.

insomnia/ant-venom earrings -- doing very little for you. get coral earrings at least (assuming you're not made of money).

unyielding/phalanx ring -- trash in any TOAU exp party that's not horrendous overcamping (though 3 DEX could have some useful macro situations). Get the best ACC rings you can afford.

knightly mantle -- please... go to your mog house and put on the Amemet +1 gathering dust there.

warriors belt +1 -- life belt. PLD has acc issues, especially on birds. This is also a wonderful belt for Vorpal Blade.

Also, eat good food. On colibris you'll probably just have to spam cheap meat (remember, eating meat jerky means you're doing more than most people do on colibris). On imps, you can eat Marinara Pizzas, which are actually very cost-effective (if you don't die ;)).

People might give you sh*t for wearing things they don't think a paladin "should" wear... just prove them wrong, or direct them to this forum where there is more than enough objective mathematical and logical proof that idling in circa 2004 turtle gear is doing very little for today's Paladin.

Definitely true about sushi; while meriting, I actually tend to eat about 1 crab sushi for every 3 mithkabobs/jerkies I eat and go through a couple stacks. If you have the money definitely stick with sushi on TOAU mobs (unless you'll be there long enough to use pizza, or it's a Dorado situation).

Maca +1 has far more limited usage than most PLDs want to recognize. In the "Tarutaru PLD" post on the first page currently, there's some debate on it. It depends what you're doing with your PLD. I can at least say that for leveling, merits, Nyzul, Campaign, Assault, and most tanking you won't use it.



Probably not. Anything Adaman's does, Iron Ram does better, and more importantly, it has Magic Defense, so it's useful beyond just macroing in. If you don't have IR, you could get some Adaman's for macro pieces, or if, before you get IR, you need to do some kind of bloodtanking or kiting. But even then, its use is limited. Just do some campaign and get IR.

By the time you can equip Adaman body, a typical PLD is going to be past the diminishing returns point in both Vit and Defense on any mob that a party should be XP'ing on. Sure, it's still possible to over camp (going to the mire a level or two early, for instance) and the defensive piece will barely reduce more damage.

The problem is that the game just doesn't reward Defense or Vitality as much as it rewards Attack and Strength, primarily because of a) mobs minimum pDif being set at 1 - at a certain point, you gain NOTHING by adding more defense, not even 1 point of damage reduced for 100 more defense. This happens far more often than people realize. And b) the high damage rating most mobs have. I remember seeing somewhere (I think it was Gobio Studios, but I can't be bothered to look it up again, so someone else who keeps better track of these things can find it) that a CRAB has about the same damage rating as a appropriately leveled GA which is why they do a lot of damage when they hit. Mobs have ridiculously low attack values to begin with - they go off race and job only in their calculations while we get access to TONS of gear to boost ours.

When I actually cared about comparing the two, I was in a Gustav tunnel crab killing party. The difference between Haubergeon and my trusty Banana Plate mail (level 50 JSE) accounted for approximately 1 Cure III every fight. Something that should easily be lived with. AND we were overcamping with that party.

I'll always recommend DD for XP at all levels. I've tried it and its worked remarkably well. I won't hold it against someone who brings both, but realize the potential that's in the DD set and experiment just a bit more with it and you'll see amazing results. ToAU especially requires a DD set up - the DDs just have WAY too much ability to pull hate.

{Um...} really? You have Paladins in a *merit* party using a shield? For what? Are you meriting in Lufaise Meadows, or trolls in Halvung? If so, YMMV. If you're meriting at Mamool Ja/Nyzul staging point and you're having issues with people taking hits... are you meriting at a level 71 sync or something? As a PLD in a merit party, I've never gotten out a shield except maybe once when the healer DC'd, I was out of mp, Ni was down, and so I macro'd it in to get Ichi up. Company/Joyeuse, half-decent DD gear, and support, and you can parse pretty alright... I mean, if some people want to use shields on birds just because that's how they like to play, fine, but "to help the healer" is a pretty weak rationale.

Seriously, there is no reason why people taking damage should ever be an issue in any merit party unless they are wearing level 40 AH gear. This claim just makes no sense given that the typical merit party has *no one* wearing "defensive" gear. Hell, seems like even most people /NIN are too lazy to bother with shadows full time because things die so fast it barely matters.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:57pm by soopafeen

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 6:35pm by soopafeen

I leveled PLD back during the Middle Ages (Pre-ToAU), but I will throw in my two cents.

Full PLD AF - In my opinion, it's not bad, but by today's standards, you could do better by gearing for damage to hold hate better.

Gluttony sword - Eh, the DMG is the same as a Bastard Sword +1, but the delay is a bit high. I'm not sure about Asura, but the Gluttony is cheaper on Lakshmi, so I go with that purely for budget's sake. Upgrade to Espadon +1 at 66.

Iron ram shield - I'm actually a little sad that this wasn't around back when I was leveling. Looks good to me.

bibiki seashell - When you get the chance, quest the smart grenade. +4 attack would most likely be more beneficial do you. Just be careful that you can throw it.

insomnia/ant-venom earrings - Spike or Coral earrings would probably be of more use to you.

unyielding/phalanx ring - Hmm. Accuracy rings would be the best choice, but they're either expensive (Woodsmans/Sniper's) or hard to obtain (Jaeger). I would go with an Echphoria Ring and a Hercules' Ring.

knightly mantle - Amemet or Amemet +1 would be better for a DD piece. High Breath Mantle is a cheap (and effective) tank piece.
warriors belt +1 - Replace this with a Life Belt or Potent Belt.

is it possible to hybrid between dd and enimity gear? proberly be a bad idea just wondering if it would work tho.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 12:11am by silentex

It was... Greater Colibri, in the pre-Level Sync era! (To reiterate, it was a PLD/WAR, not PLD/NIN--I wasn't the leader, so don't complain to me about /WAR.)

It went from being able to Haste PLD plus two DDs and Dia II every bird (sword and shield) to not able to Haste more than two people and actually giving up Dia on many birds because I needed the hMP time (Great Sword). Became severely short on MP several times. Think the dude was skilling up on Great Sword or something.

The PLD was Lv.75. No BRD in party, IIRC.

I didn't think a shield would've made that much of a difference, but there I was, out of MP (again)... Anyway, party leader managed to make him put his shield back on, and the MP crunch went away.

* * *

My comment about the shield in exp/merit was strictly for PLD/WAR. Personally, I would only merit as PLD/NIN if on PLD. (And, did exactly that.) Justice Sword and Joyeuse, of course.

Oh, and I really did merit with PLD/WAR's (no Level Sync) recently, while I was on BRD. *shrug*

* * *


Oddly enough, I've had plenty of plenty of experience curing DDs taking Pecking Flurry > hit-hit-hit > Pecking Flurry, killing my MP pool. Then, the puller won't listen to me when I asked pulling to be stopped because I'm down to 50MP and Covert was NOT up.

That--and being the only person in party who has any form of cure--got old. Retired RDM from meriting; people who think taking damage isn't an issue can find another RDM healer instead.

* * *

For exp'ing to 75, I've tanked PLD, turtle style and DD style and hybrid style. I've play co-healer and main healer (and often solo healer) on RDM. I've played puller and backup healer on BRD. So I think I have some perspectives on the front line, the back line, and the mid line position when I say this:

Damage mitigation (including defense) counts, in my experience.

Not to say a PLD should turtle up in all parties--in fact, I do encourage new PLDs to try DD and hybrid when possible---but, "more damage output" isn't the answer to everything. How much damage the tank and the front line should take very much depends on the curing the party can sustain.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 2:08am by IfritnoItazura

Edit: Didn't feel my advice was useful. Deleted it.




Edited, Jul 9th 2009 10:00am by Niklz

The difference is probably not large at Lv.75, true enough. The OP isn't at Lv.75, though.

I went full DD on Imps at Lv.71; they hit too hard at Lv.69 for full DD style, so even 2-3 levels can make a pretty big difference. (Of course, it was also party dependent--as I said, the ability to sustain curing determines how much damage mitigation the front line should have.)

At Lv.73, Adaman Cuirass probably shouldn't be full-timed in most exp parties, but Adaman Cuisses isn't a bad piece for a hybrid build. Is it worth the trouble of getting them? Well, that's something each PLD has to decide for himself, but I would say those two pieces can be used for tanking outside of parties for PLDs w/out endgame (or ultra-expensive gear like Avalon Breastplate), so why not get them?

Personally, I'd still carry defensive gear to a merit party, even if it's just to macro in when both Ni and Ichi timers are down. Or, when I can't get Ichi up... There are days when Ichi casting under pressure just seems impossible.

lvl 64 pld/dnc is an insane tank. Shield block, flash, mini voke, tp cures, and occational cure IV. This is all easily possible with aspir samba and birds. You should not have any problems with keeping hate, and if you loose it. You can main cure with tp since its not getting snatched. The main thing to think about is that since you will have hate glued to you, use your tp to cure often since you will lose it often.

Gear for acc/atk/emn/def in that order. Max out acc since your food will be non existant if you maintain hate like your should.

Also, use the evasion down step.

I recommend a drg/whm if you can find one. They can throw out dia and cure you if your in a pickle. With a drg/whm, you can stick to one support job that can deliver haste to everyone.

Its a busy job combination, but after you get used to it, it is not too bad.

Luckily, at later levels in particular there are some "Hybrid" pieces, which basically means DD pieces that happen to have enmity on them, sometimes with a very tiny (thus acceptable) reduction in DD potential, and sometimes with a gain to both. (I refer to items such as Homam or Askar hands, Cerberus Mantle, etc...)