DD or VIT?Follow

Currently PLD30 and wondering if I should level with DD or VIT and HP gear? Maybe a mix? Or is there a specific level I should shift?

There's always a lot of debate over this.

Some people argue that the added DEF and VIT wont do enough to cut damage down. Other people argue that with the DD gear, you take too much damage and drain MP.

If you want to make it worse, both sides are right.

It's up to personal preference these days, as well as which monsters you're fighting and how your party setup is. I personally wouldn't recommend doing anything like a DD setup on the middle-lands monsters. They have too much HP dragging the battle out, and hit like a truck. No matter how much DD gear you'd switch in, you wouldnt be able to contribute to the damage enough to make it worthwhile. Mostly because you hunt IT+.

If you're fighting VT's or lower (mostly starting Colibri's), or are simply in a merit party, then by all means, go all out DD.

If you feel comfortable with switching in DD gear without completely exhausting your mage line or giving your party extra down time, go for it. If it means having to rest up after every battle and not hitting Chain 2, then just stay a tank for a little while longer.

DD isnt the all-out answer, nor is full DEF and VIT. Some battles need you to lean just a little more to one side or another. Find the pace that works best for you. No one can tell you how much you can do with your party, really. Mix it up a little if you like, but know how far you can go. If you become a liability, you're not making anyone happy.

ScarShiva is generally recognized as the biggest proponent of DD PLD from its earliest inception. I provided the first physical parse (and I wasn't even fully DD - just a food change and some minor equipment changes, at that) and Illusitaru provided the theoretical math behind it. (By theory, I mean it's on paper.)

The correct answer is "Bring gear for both and learn how to use each." My mantra was "If I can't DD it, we're overcamping," but I had the benefit of knowing I had a RDM, WHM, and SAM or THF in my party at all times and it was a matter of picking up two more DD's. Having that kind of solidarity and being the one who picks camps makes it a lot easier to stick with one style over the other.

DD > Def/Vit so long as there is no significant increase in downtime. I.e., as long as the extra curing that takes place because you're in DD gear doesn't result in more resting time for the healers than you gain in the increased kill speed, you should be using DD gear. Without parsing, you'll have to get a good feel for it, but it's easy to choose camps where DD wins from 14 til 75. I know, I've done it.

For ease of reference for the gear I recommend, I'll link the EQ section of my DD PLD guide (of which, I REALLY am trying to finish... really).

Some day, I may move it to the wiki. Chances are, though, I'm only finishing it for this site - someone else can modify it when major information comes along.



Good compromise, but you really want to start getting more good gear. RDM does great on the front lines as long as they can make the rest of their duties work: Refresh mp users, haste tank/dds, cure when necessary. Glad to see you're working together. At least your RDM isn't subbing /SMN so she can melee more often. Mine did, til I took over the account.



Have you considered either using Pizza (+Accuracy AND +Attack) or Dorado Sushi (+Accuracy and enmity)? You're about the right level. I view 40 with 2 of the +5 accuracy rings as the best place to start using it (rule of thumb - more factors involved, but I don't want to get into them), and 48 with Life Belt is the key changing point. Also, consider saving up for 1-2 Woodsman rings (I greatly prefer them) as you can. Get a Rajas if you're anywhere near the end of CoP (Saatva really is crap as anything but an enmity macro piece).



Flat blade is fine for now. I still rocked Fast Blade, myself. Shield Bash was my "emergency stun" move, and I rarely had to use it for that. Stunning is great. SC's are practically a thing of the past, sadly, but are fun when you can do them. And 10 seconds to wait for WS's can be a HUGE factor...



Want to know why your other DD's make you rely on your cures for hate? They're getting haste when you aren't. Haste does 2 things for you past 37 and both help a PLD increase hatelevel. 1) DoT increase. The more haste you have, the better. And the 15% from the Haste Spell is a great place to start. 2) Decrease in recast times. The fastermore often you can get Flash off, the longer you'll hold hate. Curing for hate is a great way to get hate, but when you aren't the target because DDs are pulling hate more often than you are, it's hard to cure yourself. And, yes, you can and should be curing them, too, but that's beside the point. Haste priority should always be: Tank, other DD's. Your sister will want to get used to that before you get close to end game material.

Major note, though: you've got the right idea.



DD has greater hate potential than curing. Curing is awesome, too, but DD just has more modifiers in its favor. The main reason PLD's can hold hate so well is the combination of hate potential from DD and Cures.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 2:29pm by Dracoth

If I get some time and get motivated again, I've always wanted to give my bigass theory post some fixes and to put it a little more in reality. As in, highlight a camp that isn't T-VT and give the turtle Pld a little more street smarts. Once I've got it where I want it, I'd be confident to put it in my sig. Or let it appear in the Pld stickies (I dont actually know if anyone has referenced to it, I sorta hope not, lol) Anyway, that'll take me a super long time though, so we'll see.


Oh, on topic, I strongly endorse DD 14-75. Well, starting at 10 with royal footman gloves, but really getting started at 14 with mighty rings. Focus exclusively (super simplified) on attack till 40, and then start mixing attack and accuracy, with a general prioritizing of accuracy.
Don't ever bother with turtle gear, unless there isnt a DD piece for a particular slot

Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 3:27pm by Illusitaru

Thanks for all the great tips. Gear is work in progress, as I mentioned sis has the best stuff (including my woodmans rings), but she's working on getting her own. Getting cor to 75 lately bankrupted me, so I can't afford duplicates right now. ^_^;; I got ecphoria ring waiting at 49 though from pup (-eva = bad for pup solo). Peti > SH+1 > haubergeon progression waiting in 50s too. Well I'll probably go peti > haubergeon and let sis use SH.

Maybe I'll try pizza next party. As long as it doesn't prevent me from taking care of myself. ^^;; Sis just started the game 2 months ago, and rdm is her first job. I want to give her the same experience I had as rdm (also my first job, some 3 years ago) instead of the pink mage standard that's prevalent these days. I had static nin tank instead of paladin, but personally I despise playing nin, so I gotta work more to make myself self-sufficient. I know, I know, it's not 2006 anymore, but I can always dream. ^_^ So far haven't gotten any complaints about that exp was particularly slow either.



Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 5:01pm by Sharain

Just because its a dead horse topic doesn't mean we need to withhold being helpful.
Gtfo if you're gonna bring nothing but sh*t to a thread.

I'm bored; sue me.

If you're fighting IT++ mobs in almost any area/level range, you're doing it wrong. Unless getting 5k an hour is your goal or something.