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Phalanx or Cocoon?Follow

#1 Aug 31 2009 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Hi Guys,

For tanking multiple mobs, which is more useful - Phalanx or Cocoon? I want to skill up Shield by tanking multiple mobs at once and am not sure to go /rdm or /blu.

Or if you know a better way to cap shield (I am like 50 under cap) I am all ears ^^
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#2 Aug 31 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Phalanx.

Defense will do little to reduce the damage you take. Phalanx + Stoneskin is the way to go.

The more you block, the faster it will go, so put a lot of Shield Skill + gear on, eva - if you can too. If you need, get a smaller shield as they block more often.

Also, find mandragoras or other kind of mnk or nin mobs to skillup from.

You could also wait until you get martial mastery as a kupoenhancement.
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#3 Aug 31 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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it really depends on how much you getting hit for. If you getting hit by a lot then Cocoon might help you more.

Phalanx is a fixed amount of damage mitigation based on your enhancing skills. If your enhancing skill is super low than I guess go with cocoon.

Without any enhancing skill gear but the native skill capped, you can mitigate 19 dmg.

I believe you can get those last skills on mobs that are EM-VT with no problem. The best I can think of are the steelshell but I don't remember exactly what their cap is. I know their highest level is 76.

I think you should just go with defense food so that they don't hit you super hard. You can sub red mage and put up stoneskin and phalanx and it will mitigate more damage than you would probably with just cocoon.

From what I have seen, subbing red mage is the best defensive solo you can use when you have to get hit.
#4 Aug 31 2009 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks!

I was actually skilling on mandies as pld/sch in the boyhada tree yesterday. It was OK, but not great. I will try /rdm tonight ^^
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Manifest, Valefor
BST/PLD/COR/BRD/WAR/THF/SMN/BLM/WHM 99
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Maniken, Valefor
WHM/DRG/BRD/MNK/RDM/WAR/BLM 99
SCH/NIN/SAM/BST 49
BLU 16

Linkshell: ChaoticUnion

Sozu Rogberry(pre Thf Knife patch): 0/49 ><
#5 Aug 31 2009 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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TheKhory wrote:
Phalanx.

Defense will do little to reduce the damage you take. Phalanx + Stoneskin is the way to go.


This really isn't true... classic example of taking a correct HNM mentality and trying to apply it to any situation.

The reason that the above argument exists is because HNMs have extremely high base damage (weapon damage). This negates the damage reduction from defense: no matter how low you get pDIF by stacking def, they will still do close to that extremely high amount of base damage.

Mandragoras and crabs that you'll use to skill your shield do not have extremely high base weapon damage. Meaning that adjustment of pDIF by your additional defense from cocoon (or def food, equip etc) could actually make a difference.

To answer the original question then, look at the damage you take without cocoon or phalanx. If this amount is at all close to 19, then phalanx will definitely be your better bet. If it is a lot higher then that (I'd say 50+) cocoon might prevent more damage. Worth trying at any rate.
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#6 Aug 31 2009 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
TheKhory wrote:
Phalanx.

Defense will do little to reduce the damage you take. Phalanx + Stoneskin is the way to go.


This really isn't true... classic example of taking a correct HNM mentality and trying to apply it to any situation.

The reason that the above argument exists is because HNMs have extremely high base damage (weapon damage). This negates the damage reduction from defense: no matter how low you get pDIF by stacking def, they will still do close to that extremely high amount of base damage.

Mandragoras and crabs that you'll use to skill your shield do not have extremely high base weapon damage. Meaning that adjustment of pDIF by your additional defense from cocoon (or def food, equip etc) could actually make a difference.

To answer the original question then, look at the damage you take without cocoon or phalanx. If this amount is at all close to 19, then phalanx will definitely be your better bet. If it is a lot higher then that (I'd say 50+) cocoon might prevent more damage. Worth trying at any rate.


Unfortunately, HNM is the case where having a higher defense actually DOES more for you than otherwise. Your examples are almost exactly opposite.

What happens is that a pDif is generated: mobs attack divided by your level corrected defense. Cocoon is a great way to diminish pDif, but, as you've suggested, much of the damage generated by mobs (whether HNM or not) comes from their base damage, you can only decrease it so much.

Anecdotal case in point: I leveled PLD/BLU at level 51sh. We only gained one level, but Cocoon knocked a maximum of 2 points of damage off my average from when it was on to when it wasn't. Our defense is just naturally that much higher than the mobs' attack. Since most end game mobs have higher attack, defense has a little bit more of an input on what we're able to do.

Phalanx, on the other hand, will ALWAYS deduct a raw number off your damage taken. Depending on your enhancing skill, this number will quickly outpace the 50% defense bonus.

For most cases, Phalanx >>>> Cocoon. From HNM to XP to low level mobs (who you're probably flooring pDif on, anyway, but will still hit for some damage).
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#7 Aug 31 2009 at 4:16 PM Rating: Default
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Bio II + Phalanx >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cocoon


(Assuming your enhancing is close to cap)

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#8 Aug 31 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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If you're going to /RDM for Phalanx, capping Enhancing helps a lot with the amount of damage it will mitigate.

It can be boring, but I was able to cap it just spamming barspells (I made a few macros and just hit them over and over while watching a movie).
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#9 Aug 31 2009 at 7:49 PM Rating: Default
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Like everything, sh*t's situational.

HNM/King/High Teir > Phalanx

Anything VT~ > Cocoon
#10 Aug 31 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Decent
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TBH phalanx >>>> Cocoon for any situation, cause RDM actually gives more than just a def boost. You get fast cast (which help placing spells and help recast of flash and retribution), you get a real stoneskin, you get enspells to help speed up kill, you get bio.

Meanwhile blu give plenny of abilities that won't have any real effect cause of SJ level blue magic skills.

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#11 Sep 01 2009 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
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PLD/BLU: Cocoon
RDM friend: Phalanx2

everyone's a winner!
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#12 Sep 01 2009 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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Xellith wrote:
PLD/BLU: Cocoon
RDM friend: Phalanx2

everyone's a winner!
Or SCH-or-SMN friend: Phalanxga (in the SMN's case, Diabolos + Noctoshield, though this is somewhat of a lame version).
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