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Creed Cuirass +1Follow

#1 Feb 02 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Can anyone confirm how great or not so great the "Migates damage based on enmity" effect is?
I've had the body for about two weeks and i've noticed myself taking a lot less damage than normal, was using a Versa Hauberk before Creed+1.

Would a test on 1000 Needles be a viable test for this?
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Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
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I am the master of my fate:
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#2 Feb 02 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Haven't gotten it yet (haven't done much with PLD at all lately), but yes, a controlled test where you are only taking damage from 1000 needles would be ideal for this since you know how much damage you'd take.

Was thinking you might want to control either tp feed or damage taken, but since you're trying to take the full 1000 damage, you don't need to worry about making sure you have an untouched stoneskin, making this really easy. Grab a cactaur that can't kill you outside of this (probably one in Kuftal tunnel) and melee the sucker to death using a weapon that will do damage, but not much of it. Parse the results if you could, and it would be possible to generate an enmity vs. damage taken vs. time graph to allow us to see the results.

As a side note, I totally misread the "mitigates damage based on enmity" as a "mitigates enmity loss from damage" note.... Not sure how I did that, but I'm much more intrigued by the piece now then I was.

Edit: You'll need more than 1 1000 needles, though, and preferably from the same mob where you're NOT trying to spike your enmity from the get go. I.e., we'll need to see several at a low enmity value (primarily from TP spam on him while not doing much else) and some at high. Ideally, if you could sleep it reliably, you could let all your VE disintegrate after a brief period, allowing you to test the results of CE vs. VE, as well. It's not completely straight forward, but we need to decide if its TE, VE, or CE that affects it and to what degree do they affect it.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 2:36pm by Dracoth
#3 Feb 02 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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Did a quick test in Kuftal Tunnel as Lv90 PLD/WAR
Creed Cuirass +1 as only potential Damage Taken-% gear. This is not a thorough test, will do one of those tomorrow when i have more time to but here is what i found.

Target: Sabotender Sediendo (Kuftal Tunnel)

Flash x4
Provoke x4
Divine Emblem used on the final Flash.
Sentinel used.
Rampart used, dropped the Magic Shield effect manually.
Shield Bash also used.
Used a Dagger (Nguul) to feed TP

1000 needles for 850 damage.

Second fight i did the exact same. Waited on cooldown of Emblem.

1000 needles for 850 damage again.

Third fight it used 1000 needles at 60% as well as at 20%.
First time it was used: 850 damage.
Second time it was used: 850 damage.
Atonement was used at 40%, landed for 750.

These results are not concrete, as i said i will do a more 'scientific' test soon. Sorry if this is no use.
From speculation and some minor testing, it appears to be -15% Damage Taken.

Will go to Kuftal Tunnel again tomorrow and bring a partner this time. If i end up taking 1000 Needles for 425 this would mean 15% got shaved off it and would this confirm that Creed Cuirass +1 is indeed -15% DMG Taken at max VE/CE?


Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:44pm by Tatham
____________________________
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Invictus -- William Ernest Henley
#4 Feb 02 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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15% PDT- sounds nice if those numbers hold up at high enmity. 9 seals to go in my case. I need to look into some NM /shouts for that if the Cuirass is that good in both phases.
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#5Tatham, Posted: Feb 02 2011 at 5:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
#6 Feb 02 2011 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a weaponskill and as far as I am aware behaves as physical damage for Cactuars, as Sentinel reduces the amount taken. Blue Magic often behaves in different ways for BLU than it does for the monster. This doesn't negate the claim that it may be magic damage as well, but 1000 needles is not proof either.
#7 Feb 02 2011 at 11:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Suggest duo with a partner, probably rdm.

Partner pulls and melees. You cure them once for 0 HP (make sure they're full HP before cure), then cure yourself for controlled amounts (have a few macros that each drop you a specific amount of HP) and work your way through how much total enmity is needed before you reach the 15% DT cap.

Also try getting it to just over 25% HP with built up TP, use Flash (first/only action on mob), and then let it drop below 25% HP and use 1000 Needles. See how far up the scale Flash by itself (typical starter enmity on a mob) gives you, so you can see what your typical -DT will start out at for a given mob.

Oh, and another thought: see if it's additive or compounds with PDT, since it uses a different descriptor. Earth Staff and max hate should be 35% if it adds to PDT, so 650 damage. If it compounds it would only reduce it to 680. If you could cap PDT, compounding would be better, but you're unlikely to be able to do that so hopefully it adds.

And of course, be interesting to see if the +2 doubles it like so many other +1 to +2 upgrades, possibly pushing you to -30% DT? Seems a bit much, but who knows.
#8 Mar 01 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I just upgraded to +1 this past Saturday (having de-winged many a wyvern for the last 2 Creed Seals) and I am quite impressed with the damage reduction so far. I've been doing GS Magian trials and the target monsters were hitting for 0 damage more often than not with Phalanx up. EP--, yes, but I like the fact that I can run through monsters without having to cure myself so often.





____________________________
Hayward: San d'Orian Elvaan Male. Cerberus Server.

*Current Project: Mog Garden*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hayward Timberwolf | Limsa Lominsa | Adamantoise | Elezen Male

Main class: ACN50
Other classes: THM50|ARC50|CNJ50|GLA50|MRD50|PGL50|LNC50|ROG50
DoH: CUL50|CRP50|ALC50|BSM50|ARM50|WVR50|LTW50|GSM50
DoL: Miner, Lv. 50|Botanist Lv. 50|Fisher Lv. 50
Jobs Unlocked: SMN|BLM|SCH|PLD|WHM|BRD|WAR|DRG|NIN
#9 Mar 01 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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1,019 posts
Tatham wrote:
1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
If it is indeed -15% Damage Taken and not just -15% Physical Damage Taken i'll be extremely impressed and amazed.

Creed Cuirass +1
DEF:74 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Enmity+7
Damage Taken-15% (Enmity MAX)
Lv89 PLD

Let you know the polished results tomorrow.


Is it hard to beleave rules change when blues get a spell?

are you going to start saying darksteel is magic damage taken? where do you think people found out about Umbra's hidden effect?

its magical damage when used as a blue spell, physical when used by the mob.
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BLM75/SMN50/BLU59/DRG44/PLD25/WAR32/THF34/NIN37/RNG48/SAM38/BST7/WHM37/RDM75/DRK1/COR-/PUP-

"He taught me the only way to be strong was Through utter lack of remorse.
To make sure I did not end up like one of those pansy white or barbarian red mages,
He taught me that death and destruction are what truly great black mages contribute to the history pages."
Shantotto, Vana'diel Tribune II Nov. 30, 2004
#10 Mar 03 2011 at 12:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Tatham wrote:
1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
If it is indeed -15% Damage Taken and not just -15% Physical Damage Taken i'll be extremely impressed and amazed.

Creed Cuirass +1
DEF:74 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Enmity+7
Damage Taken-15% (Enmity MAX)
Lv89 PLD

Let you know the polished results tomorrow.


While a Blu's 1000 Needles is indeed magic based, the 1000 Needles from Cactuars counts as physical damage. It's one of a number of Blu spells that were altered in comparison to their mob TP move counterpart (Cursed Sphere counts as Darkness magic when used by dragonflies, but it's Water based for Blu, Battery Charge is just an instant MP restoration for magic pots, while being a refresh spell for Blu, etc).
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#11 Mar 03 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Tatham wrote:
1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
If it is indeed -15% Damage Taken and not just -15% Physical Damage Taken i'll be extremely impressed and amazed.

Creed Cuirass +1
DEF:74 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Enmity+7
Damage Taken-15% (Enmity MAX)
Lv89 PLD

Let you know the polished results tomorrow.


While a Blu's 1000 Needles is indeed magic based, the 1000 Needles from Cactuars counts as physical damage. It's one of a number of Blu spells that were altered in comparison to their mob TP move counterpart (Cursed Sphere counts as Darkness magic when used by dragonflies, but it's Water based for Blu, Battery Charge is just an instant MP restoration for magic pots, while being a refresh spell for Blu, etc).


how was that proven anyway? that cursed sphere is dark to mobs? i herd about that before but never understood the proof.
____________________________
Seraph Rank 5 windurst/Rank 10 Bastok (current Allegiance) ALL spirits and all Avatars
BLM75/SMN50/BLU59/DRG44/PLD25/WAR32/THF34/NIN37/RNG48/SAM38/BST7/WHM37/RDM75/DRK1/COR-/PUP-

"He taught me the only way to be strong was Through utter lack of remorse.
To make sure I did not end up like one of those pansy white or barbarian red mages,
He taught me that death and destruction are what truly great black mages contribute to the history pages."
Shantotto, Vana'diel Tribune II Nov. 30, 2004
#12 Mar 03 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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RambustheRDMtaru wrote:
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Tatham wrote:
1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
If it is indeed -15% Damage Taken and not just -15% Physical Damage Taken i'll be extremely impressed and amazed.

Creed Cuirass +1
DEF:74 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Enmity+7
Damage Taken-15% (Enmity MAX)
Lv89 PLD

Let you know the polished results tomorrow.


While a Blu's 1000 Needles is indeed magic based, the 1000 Needles from Cactuars counts as physical damage. It's one of a number of Blu spells that were altered in comparison to their mob TP move counterpart (Cursed Sphere counts as Darkness magic when used by dragonflies, but it's Water based for Blu, Battery Charge is just an instant MP restoration for magic pots, while being a refresh spell for Blu, etc).
how was that proven anyway? that cursed sphere is dark to mobs? i herd about that before but never understood the proof.
Use an avatar.
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#13 Mar 04 2011 at 2:49 AM Rating: Excellent
xypin wrote:
RambustheRDMtaru wrote:
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Tatham wrote:
1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
If it is indeed -15% Damage Taken and not just -15% Physical Damage Taken i'll be extremely impressed and amazed.

Creed Cuirass +1
DEF:74 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Enmity+7
Damage Taken-15% (Enmity MAX)
Lv89 PLD

Let you know the polished results tomorrow.


While a Blu's 1000 Needles is indeed magic based, the 1000 Needles from Cactuars counts as physical damage. It's one of a number of Blu spells that were altered in comparison to their mob TP move counterpart (Cursed Sphere counts as Darkness magic when used by dragonflies, but it's Water based for Blu, Battery Charge is just an instant MP restoration for magic pots, while being a refresh spell for Blu, etc).
how was that proven anyway? that cursed sphere is dark to mobs? i herd about that before but never understood the proof.
Use an avatar.


Basically that. If Leviathan or Ramuh were to take considerably less damage from Cursed Sphere than, say, Shiva or something, then it'd be clear that it were Water based, whereas if it were Dark based the damage would be the same regardless of which Celestial Avatar was used. Alternately, if you have access to both an Aqua Sachet and a Shadow Sachet, simply equip one and get hit repeatedly by Cursed Sphere until you get a proc of the additional effect of the sachet and then there you have all the proof you'd need as to which element it is (since each sachet absorbs magic damage of the element that it corresponds to).
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#14 Mar 04 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
RambustheRDMtaru wrote:
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Tatham wrote:
1000 Needles is considered magic damage, it is listed a "Magical" as a Blue Magic spell.
If it is indeed -15% Damage Taken and not just -15% Physical Damage Taken i'll be extremely impressed and amazed.

Creed Cuirass +1
DEF:74 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+14 Attack+14 Enmity+7
Damage Taken-15% (Enmity MAX)
Lv89 PLD

Let you know the polished results tomorrow.


While a Blu's 1000 Needles is indeed magic based, the 1000 Needles from Cactuars counts as physical damage. It's one of a number of Blu spells that were altered in comparison to their mob TP move counterpart (Cursed Sphere counts as Darkness magic when used by dragonflies, but it's Water based for Blu, Battery Charge is just an instant MP restoration for magic pots, while being a refresh spell for Blu, etc).
how was that proven anyway? that cursed sphere is dark to mobs? i herd about that before but never understood the proof.
Use an avatar.


oh right like when i levled smn on imps, that aminsa tp move( dont know how to spell this) don't effect levi or ifirt so its likely to be based on fire.
____________________________
Seraph Rank 5 windurst/Rank 10 Bastok (current Allegiance) ALL spirits and all Avatars
BLM75/SMN50/BLU59/DRG44/PLD25/WAR32/THF34/NIN37/RNG48/SAM38/BST7/WHM37/RDM75/DRK1/COR-/PUP-

"He taught me the only way to be strong was Through utter lack of remorse.
To make sure I did not end up like one of those pansy white or barbarian red mages,
He taught me that death and destruction are what truly great black mages contribute to the history pages."
Shantotto, Vana'diel Tribune II Nov. 30, 2004
#15 Mar 16 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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hmm, does this add towards the 50% dmg taken cap players get or can it break that and go to 65%?
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#16 Apr 05 2011 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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Did a few quick tests with just melee/nukes and 1000 Needles did 898 all 5 times, ended up aggroing rapido so i left it at that. All I would do is melee + stone or bio spam and always took the same amount.

Odd thing I noticed was regardless of when it did 1000 Needles I always took the same damage which I know I didn't have capped CE/VE. This makes me wonder if it works more like Libra reports and not how we know hate works.

Edited, Apr 5th 2011 12:11am by Zagen
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#17 Apr 07 2011 at 4:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I noticed the same thing actually. My theory is a little rough but it appears to me that The body's effect is fully present just for being the current target. For example, When me and my low-man were out in Attowa, we were camping Tunga and I aggrow'd 5 Chigoes by accident just after we pulled Tunga. Tunga casted Breakga as it likes to do and the Chigoes were free to pound at me for afew seconds. But I noticed that the Chigoes all hit me for the same damage just about. Coincidence? Im not sure so I decided to go do a Campaign battle yesterday in Vunkerl Inlet to try something out. It was the PLD Orcs attacking, I pulled one off to the side and proceeded to beat on it. From the moment I pulled it to the moment I killed it, I took the same range of damage. I used a Sentinel+ Divine Emblem + Flash combo to spike CE when I got 100% TP and did 680/750(Atonement) and damage taken was still unchanged.

This is far from a full blown test on my part but I do believe the Effect is active just for being the current target which In My Humble Opinion is Awesome.
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