Sage

2,448 posts

Hi all. New ranger here. I just hit 46 last night, and I have some questions on the timing of the above mentioned items in the topic.^^ Sharpshot, Barrage, and WS.

I ate meat last night in my party out on goblins by the Ifrit cauldron's zone. My accuracy was 91%, barrage was less consistant than I wanted it to be though. Anyways. Acc was comfortable, but up untill this point I've always used sharpshot+ barrage every time they're up. If I happen to have TP before sharpshot and barrage, Ill sharpshot -> ws -> barrage then let hate cool down for 15~30 seconds.

I kept missing a few WS' in a row last night though. And I was opening fusion for the MNK. After a few misses the BLM asked me to use sharpshot as much as possible for those WS. But I always save it for barrage. If I WS and barrage all the time Im going to end up dying one of those times from too much hate..or ruining the SC as the mnk chases down the gob. So I started using sharpshot and Barrage seperately, using sharpshot for WS and then barrage somewhere halfway between sharpshot's recast.

Now, DoT wise, seperating them seems most sensable. Atleast, post-sidwinder that is. Once I have a WS that can match barrage, alternating them so I can do one per fight or atleast, never do both in the same fight, to help with hate control but still push my DoT to a steady output to help chains. I'd like to say I have a fairly good grasp on DoT dmg from playing MNK. Focus and zerk would always net me tons of TP and two WS per fight, but I'd also eat MP like a sponge and then my dmg would be sub-par for the next 1-3 fights while waiting for the JA's to come back up again. Inconsistant dmg= inconsistant chains IMO.

So the question for now is, Should I keep doing sharpshot -> ws -> barrage then just using a lone WS without sharpshot (while waiting for the SS timer to cool down)

Or seperate barrage from sharpshot to keep hate under control, and my elvaan **** alive? The other benefit to seperating them would be, if i miss a WS that wasnt in sharpshot, its possible I could barrage to re-gain that TP fast in time to still perform the SC.

I ate meat last night in my party out on goblins by the Ifrit cauldron's zone. My accuracy was 91%, barrage was less consistant than I wanted it to be though. Anyways. Acc was comfortable, but up untill this point I've always used sharpshot+ barrage every time they're up. If I happen to have TP before sharpshot and barrage, Ill sharpshot -> ws -> barrage then let hate cool down for 15~30 seconds.

I kept missing a few WS' in a row last night though. And I was opening fusion for the MNK. After a few misses the BLM asked me to use sharpshot as much as possible for those WS. But I always save it for barrage. If I WS and barrage all the time Im going to end up dying one of those times from too much hate..or ruining the SC as the mnk chases down the gob. So I started using sharpshot and Barrage seperately, using sharpshot for WS and then barrage somewhere halfway between sharpshot's recast.

Now, DoT wise, seperating them seems most sensable. Atleast, post-sidwinder that is. Once I have a WS that can match barrage, alternating them so I can do one per fight or atleast, never do both in the same fight, to help with hate control but still push my DoT to a steady output to help chains. I'd like to say I have a fairly good grasp on DoT dmg from playing MNK. Focus and zerk would always net me tons of TP and two WS per fight, but I'd also eat MP like a sponge and then my dmg would be sub-par for the next 1-3 fights while waiting for the JA's to come back up again. Inconsistant dmg= inconsistant chains IMO.

So the question for now is, Should I keep doing sharpshot -> ws -> barrage then just using a lone WS without sharpshot (while waiting for the SS timer to cool down)

Or seperate barrage from sharpshot to keep hate under control, and my elvaan **** alive? The other benefit to seperating them would be, if i miss a WS that wasnt in sharpshot, its possible I could barrage to re-gain that TP fast in time to still perform the SC.

Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR

Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar

Free Company:Cactuar Corp*<CCorp>*

Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar

Free Company:Cactuar Corp

catwho wrote:

If you *need* a bard to get "good exp" in a merit party, **you're the weakest link.**

Scholar

4,126 posts

Even at 75 I find myself using SS 99% of the time with barrage. Unless there is a Ws I absolutely must take no chances missing. I would definitely advise against breaking them up atleast until you have slugwinder.

Misses happen to all RNG don't get discouraged because of them, just be glad they "fixed" rng from what it was.

hehe

RNG is not a DOT job. It is a spike damage / mass hate job. Yes we do good DoT but that's not what we're known for.

Just be confident in your Utsu: Ichi/Tanking ability and you should be fine. Maybe even take NIN to atleast 37 prior to leveling RNG higher so that you get a feel for tanking. You will be tanking no matter how good a tank is, it's just choosing when those occasions are best. **** some tanks will love you when they have no shadows and you blow off a big Slugwinder/Barrage and rip hate away and tank a few hits.

Rng can be played many ways, just find a niche that your happy with and roll with it.

Misses happen to all RNG don't get discouraged because of them, just be glad they "fixed" rng from what it was.

Quote:

I'd like to say I have a fairly good grasp on DoT dmg from playing MNK.

hehe

RNG is not a DOT job. It is a spike damage / mass hate job. Yes we do good DoT but that's not what we're known for.

Just be confident in your Utsu: Ichi/Tanking ability and you should be fine. Maybe even take NIN to atleast 37 prior to leveling RNG higher so that you get a feel for tanking. You will be tanking no matter how good a tank is, it's just choosing when those occasions are best. **** some tanks will love you when they have no shadows and you blow off a big Slugwinder/Barrage and rip hate away and tank a few hits.

Rng can be played many ways, just find a niche that your happy with and roll with it.

[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft

[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

Scholar

421 posts

That's what I do pretty much. Elvaan have really bad eyes so, if you miss, you still have a barrage to fall back on and get some of that TP you lost.

Oh yeah, Flaming arrow has to be the worst ws when it comes to acc. I only fire that shot when I have 110+ TP.

When I got my AF, I started using two macros for sharpshot and barrage. I always seem to pull hate when i do sharpshot, so that way I'm not pulling as much.

Oh yeah, Flaming arrow has to be the worst ws when it comes to acc. I only fire that shot when I have 110+ TP.

When I got my AF, I started using two macros for sharpshot and barrage. I always seem to pull hate when i do sharpshot, so that way I'm not pulling as much.

75 RDM 75 RNG 58 PUP

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Scholar

4,681 posts

Quote:

My accuracy was 91%, barrage was less consistant than I wanted it to be though.

91 ^4 = 68%

So you can only hope to achieve a full Barrage (4 shots at level 46) 68% of the time, and full misses 9% of the time. I know it's possible to calculate the amount of 1 hit, 2 hit and 3 hit barrages, I'm just not feeling up to it at this time. Wouldn't be prudent, not at this juncture...

Quote:

After a few misses the BLM asked me to use sharpshot as much as possible for those WS.

Quote:

or ruining the SC as the mnk chases down the gob.

Quote:

I'd like to say I have a fairly good grasp on DoT dmg from playing MNK.

ALWAYS pair Sharpshot and Barrage when possible. What's the point of a 4-7 hit shot, where each blow must land for the consecutive to occur, when your R Acc isn't at it's best. Allow me a simple analogy to illustrate.

Say Asuran Fists was a 0-8 hit Job Ability on a 5 minute timer, where the only way to throw an eighth punch is if all 7 landed. Would you want focus up for this or not?

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Scholar

9,209 posts

Cyth wrote:

Quote:

My accuracy was 91%, barrage was less consistant than I wanted it to be though.

91 ^4 = 68%

So you can only hope to achieve a full Barrage (4 shots at level 46) 68% of the time, and full misses 9% of the time. I know it's possible to calculate the amount of 1 hit, 2 hit and 3 hit barrages, I'm just not feeling up to it at this time. Wouldn't be prudent, not at this juncture...

91% hit rate is enough to make full 6-hit occurs about 56% of the time, while 4-hit barrage occurs only about 6.17% of the time (0.91)^4*(1-0.91)

Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:

int stands for int.

Scholar

4,681 posts

Whoa, hold on there VZX.

To the best of my knowledge, the probability of the event is calculated by

Probability of total events = X^y

Where X is the probability of the single event, and y is the number of events.

Ex: Flipping a coin. 50% chance of flipping Heads.

Flip just once.

Prob = 0.5^1 = 50%

Flip twice.

Prob = 0.5^2 = 25%

Flip three times

Prob = 0.5^3 = 12.5%

Bleh, instead of erasing all this VZX, I'll just point out the OP is level 46. So the most shots he can have is 4 on Barrage.

To the best of my knowledge, the probability of the event is calculated by

Probability of total events = X^y

Where X is the probability of the single event, and y is the number of events.

Ex: Flipping a coin. 50% chance of flipping Heads.

Flip just once.

Prob = 0.5^1 = 50%

Flip twice.

Prob = 0.5^2 = 25%

Flip three times

Prob = 0.5^3 = 12.5%

Bleh, instead of erasing all this VZX, I'll just point out the OP is level 46. So the most shots he can have is 4 on Barrage.

DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22

Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33

16 posts

remember that using SS takes the nerf off... so it's another reason why rng use ss with barrage...

Scholar

9,209 posts

Cyth wrote:

Whoa, hold on there VZX.

To the best of my knowledge, the probability of the event is calculated by

Probability of total events = X^y

Where X is the probability of the single event, and y is the number of events.

Ex: Flipping a coin. 50% chance of flipping Heads.

Flip just once.

Prob = 0.5^1 = 50%

Flip twice.

Prob = 0.5^2 = 25%

Flip three times

Prob = 0.5^3 = 12.5%

Bleh, instead of erasing all this VZX, I'll just point out the OP is level 46. So the most shots he can have is 4 on Barrage.

To the best of my knowledge, the probability of the event is calculated by

Probability of total events = X^y

Where X is the probability of the single event, and y is the number of events.

Ex: Flipping a coin. 50% chance of flipping Heads.

Flip just once.

Prob = 0.5^1 = 50%

Flip twice.

Prob = 0.5^2 = 25%

Flip three times

Prob = 0.5^3 = 12.5%

Bleh, instead of erasing all this VZX, I'll just point out the OP is level 46. So the most shots he can have is 4 on Barrage.

Well, I take your last sentence lol. I didn't realize OP's is lv46.

If it's lv 46, yeah... .91^4 is fine

otherwise, the logic why hitting 4/6 is just as simple as this:

"After 4th shot lands, you are given chance to land the 5th shot which either hit with 91% probability, 9% miss. It doesn't stop at 4th shot"

That's where the last (1-0.91) comes from

Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:

int stands for int.

Scholar

566 posts

Missed WS's are a fact of life as a RNG. I remember using Flaming Arrow at the low levels, and believe me, no matter what you do, you're going to wiff more than you'd like. The problem is, most people who have never played RNG are often used to people stacking SA(TA) for a one hitter and thus guaranteeing a hit. Or they're used to jobs with multi-hit WS's (just one extra hit @ 90% accuracy reduces the of completely missing to 1%.)

Unfortunately, SA won't work with ranged attacks and all our WS's are one hit so people need to accept that you're going to miss the occasional WS here and there (particularly after you get Slugwinder) At any rate, save Sharpshot for Barrage. Besides you'll likely get at best 2 SC's off with it up, if you're lucky that is.

Unfortunately, SA won't work with ranged attacks and all our WS's are one hit so people need to accept that you're going to miss the occasional WS here and there (particularly after you get Slugwinder) At any rate, save Sharpshot for Barrage. Besides you'll likely get at best 2 SC's off with it up, if you're lucky that is.

Scholar

972 posts

In my experience with RNG, you are infinitely better off using your Sharpshot with Barrage every time. There are several reasons for this, in my opinion. The first one is simply that they are both on a 5 minute timer, and as Einstein said, 'make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.' For me, it's just nice to know that when Sharpshot is up, Barrage is up. Second, using Sharpshot with Barrage will maximize your TP return from Barrage. And more TP is always good. Also, Sharpshot will not add to your Weapon Skill damage, but it will help Barrage do more damage. So, while you may miss WS a bit more often, you will do more damage on Barrage at a more consistent pace.

Also, in my admittedly somewhat limited experience, Sharpshot doesn't seem to help WS accuracy all that much really. I know that sounds crazy, but I doesn't always seem to translate into great WS accuracy.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but really, I would continue to use Sharpshot with Barrage.

And because I am bored, here is some fun with math!

For 4 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

Hence, you have a 69% (0.91*4) chance of landing a full barrage, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 5 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

Hence, 62% chance (0.91*5) of landing a full barrage, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 6 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

6th arrow hits: 57%

Hence, 57% (0.91*6) chance of landing a full barrage, 5% chance for 5 hit, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

I believe my math is correct, though I did round quite a bit.

That being said, I always use Sharpshot with Barrage and I do not seem to land a full Barrage even close to half the time. So, personally, I think Barrage is less accurate than a regular single shot, but I might just be crazy. I don't have my parser numbers handy right now, but I think 90% is a close guess, and that should correspond to a full Barrage hit rate of about 59%. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Also, in my admittedly somewhat limited experience, Sharpshot doesn't seem to help WS accuracy all that much really. I know that sounds crazy, but I doesn't always seem to translate into great WS accuracy.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but really, I would continue to use Sharpshot with Barrage.

And because I am bored, here is some fun with math!

For 4 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

Hence, you have a 69% (0.91*4) chance of landing a full barrage, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 5 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

Hence, 62% chance (0.91*5) of landing a full barrage, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 6 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

6th arrow hits: 57%

Hence, 57% (0.91*6) chance of landing a full barrage, 5% chance for 5 hit, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

I believe my math is correct, though I did round quite a bit.

That being said, I always use Sharpshot with Barrage and I do not seem to land a full Barrage even close to half the time. So, personally, I think Barrage is less accurate than a regular single shot, but I might just be crazy. I don't have my parser numbers handy right now, but I think 90% is a close guess, and that should correspond to a full Barrage hit rate of about 59%. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Caitsith - San d'Oria - 75SAM - 75RNG - 65WAR - 45THF - 44PLD - 40NIN - 36BLU - 30DRG

Scholar

9,209 posts

Quote:

And because I am bored, here is some fun with math!

For 4 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

Hence, you have a 69% (0.91*4) chance of landing a full barrage, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 5 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

Hence, 62% chance (0.91*5) of landing a full barrage, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 6 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

6th arrow hits: 57%

Hence, 57% (0.91*6) chance of landing a full barrage, 5% chance for 5 hit, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

I believe my math is correct, though I did round quite a bit.

For 4 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

Hence, you have a 69% (0.91*4) chance of landing a full barrage, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 5 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

Hence, 62% chance (0.91*5) of landing a full barrage, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

For 6 arrow Barrage at 91% accuracy.

1st arrow hits: 91%

2nd arrow hits: 83%

3rd arrow hits: 75%

4th arrow hits: 69%

5th arrow hits: 62%

6th arrow hits: 57%

Hence, 57% (0.91*6) chance of landing a full barrage, 5% chance for 5 hit, 7% chance for 4 hit, 6% chance for 3 hit, 8% chance for 2 hit, 8% chance for 1 hit, and 9% chance for a complete miss.

I believe my math is correct, though I did round quite a bit.

when I want to make my barrage calculator, I did think that way. But it was incorrect. Why?

The sum of the event (P(no-hit)+ P(1-hit) + P(2-hit) + ... + P(n-hit)) must be 100%, no more no less.

That is, assuming we do 6-hit barrage calculation :

9% no hit

8.19% 1-hit

7.45% 2-hits

6.78% 3-hits

6.17% 4-hits

5.62% 5-hits

56.79% 6-hits

if you sum them up, you got the number exactly 100%

Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:

int stands for int.

Scholar

6,580 posts

So how do you deal with just activating Sharpshot and Barrage seem to work as a mini provoke. I sware 70% of the time I hit my Barrage macro and my sharpshot macro I have hate befor I even shoot off my barrage, then recasting utsu gives mroe hate after the first 3 hits...

Do you just SS/Barrage, wait for cooldown, shoot off barrage?

Do you just SS/Barrage, wait for cooldown, shoot off barrage?

DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75

Dragoon Equipment Guide

ArsDraconis wrote:

Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC

521 posts

Try attaching Berserk to that JA spam list >.>;

I can't remember the last time I hit my Barrage macro(Bar./SS/Zerk) and didn't pull hate >.<

I can't remember the last time I hit my Barrage macro(Bar./SS/Zerk) and didn't pull hate >.<

Windurst: O, RotZ: O, CoP: O

Retired.

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Sage

2,448 posts

Thanks for the replies guys. I havent thought of RNG as a spike dmg job, but then again I dont have slugwinder yet either. So my DMG tends to come more from my DoT... anyways! You guys cleared up alot of basics for me.

I'll just keep sharpshot with barrage for now, then. And if I get lucky enough to have TP while sharpshot is up, ill take advantage of it. As far as the 'mini voke' you get from barrage+sharpshot, if it pulls THAT much hate where the tank can't get it off me I wait as long as possible to re-cast shadows and then shoot barrage off after shadows are up. If the tank doesnt get hate off me in time I shoot it anyways...no sense wasting a good barrage. :P

Im also fairly comfortable blinktanking, thats never been a scare. 75PLD and 41nin, 75mnk so I do it alot in merit PT's anyway. :D Hooray for another job to blink-tank in!

I'll just keep sharpshot with barrage for now, then. And if I get lucky enough to have TP while sharpshot is up, ill take advantage of it. As far as the 'mini voke' you get from barrage+sharpshot, if it pulls THAT much hate where the tank can't get it off me I wait as long as possible to re-cast shadows and then shoot barrage off after shadows are up. If the tank doesnt get hate off me in time I shoot it anyways...no sense wasting a good barrage. :P

Im also fairly comfortable blinktanking, thats never been a scare. 75PLD and 41nin, 75mnk so I do it alot in merit PT's anyway. :D Hooray for another job to blink-tank in!

Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR

Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar

Free Company:Cactuar Corp*<CCorp>*

Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar

Free Company:Cactuar Corp

catwho wrote:

If you *need* a bard to get "good exp" in a merit party, **you're the weakest link.**

521 posts

This may help you, as its always worked great for me. Save Barrage and Sharpshot until you have 100TP. I get TP pretty fast, so even if I'm at ~20 or so TP when SS and Barrage are up, I can just wait the extra 15 seconds to get to 100(estimate.. Not based on real TP-gaining timing :P). That way, I get to use SS on my WS AND on Barrage. This isn't to imply that you will only have TP every 5 minutes, but getting two uses out of SS is nice. I do the same thing with Berserk; I activate all three JAs, or I don't activate any.

Hope this helps :)

(I'm lvl 40 btw, so we're in more or less the same boat)

Hope this helps :)

(I'm lvl 40 btw, so we're in more or less the same boat)

Windurst: O, RotZ: O, CoP: O

Retired.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?163001

Scholar

42 posts

i do the same thing as taru, TP to 100 > sharpshot > slugwinder > barrage > slugwinder. does a huge amount of burst dmg. hopefully itll be dead, or theres a PLD with cover, cause u wont be getting that amount of hate off of you lol

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