Trueflight: Agi, MAB, or FTPFollow

HQ elemental staff bonus is 15%, not 25%.

Actually since i fixed my apollo staff numbers, the formula is saying those bats in tahrongi needed to have 36 agi for my damage to add up right (748+). So wtf is wrong with this? Want to make sure im doing this right so that im not acquiring the wrong gear.

O_O That would be wierd. I was kinda banking on this being normal magic (holy bolts+light WS=Rng OK on bones/phy def mobs etc). That sounds really wierd. Ill go check on some level0 rabbits and bees to see if it works that way or not.

Has there really been so little info/interest in this WS? Or is the rng forum just this dead. I kinda figured Sea gorget Vs Uggy pendant would have been a dead horse topic by now and calcs for new Arctier's Torque (8 agi) would have already been done xD

While true, it doesnt change the question. None of my jobs have any way to do elemental/non-physical damage besides lolPld and atonement onry. Holy bolt/Trueflight IS for a niche use. So i want to make sure I use it best as I am able. Im not being retarded and throwing away my Obow/Vbow and normal gear. Just trying to figure out how trueflight actually works for when i do need it.

I dont know much about magic damage formula, but it does make sense from a melee perspective. The (0.83*(.3*agi)) is the 30% agi WS modifier. For every melee WS it is technically Floor(0.83*Floor(30%*agi))

The 0.83 is the 'alpha' based on your level (Wiki link). At lv 1 (or 3 technically as thats when you get a WS :P) a 50% mod WS is literally 2str=1 base damage. Perfect 50%. But at lv 75 all your stats are reduced to 0.83 effectiveness for some reason for the purposes of WS mod calculations. SE is wierd.

Anyway, so you take the 30% agi mod * your Agi. Floor that down to the nearest whole number. Then take that and multiply by your Alpha value (lv75=0.83) and floor that yet again and thats your WS mod bonus.

the 75+2 seems to be the WS "base damage" since it isnt based on a weapon. So it still looks like FTP*((base damage)+(WS mods)) It just has wierd Base damage. I dont know wtf is up with 75+2. cant imagine why its not just 77+WS mods.

Long story short, that part seems normal but doesnt have the standard flooring written in for no reason. Its the 2x(Agi-MobAgi) thats a little more like a magic formula replacing int with agi i guess (kinda a wierd version of Fstr). Not as familiar with magic stuffs.

Anyway, anyone with info prz halp! I just kinda assumed the rng board would have had all this and reamed me for another dead horse topic xD Guess its not so simple to find the answer for this one ><


Edited, Aug 6th 2010 6:52pm by Banalaty

bwahahhaaha, damn I tried to skate that one by... YOU just had to call me on it huh...

But I did say we TRY, we just dont always succeed...

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 1:15am by Aryden

Couldn't you test it by lowering a mobs AGI/MND/etc? Casting Frost for example?

You can, and indeed I have. I've seen no damage change from lowering the mob's MND STR VIT AGI or DEX. For any of those to be factors, their effect would have to be very small or somehow capped.

And since it is the mob's INT that appears to be the dominant factor, I can easily test using my BLM to determine the exact value of most mob's INT. Only those that have unknown MDB or TMDA values are difficult to determine, and those aren't suitable targets for testing trueflight anyhow.

I've also found that raising my AGI by a given amount increases damage more than lowering the mob's INT by the same amount. This is consistent with the suggested equation in that player AGI is treated as an additional modifier beyond a simple AGI-INT comparison.

Additional things I've confirmed: lightsday gives a chance to proc a 10% bonus. Trueflight can be resisted to varying degrees. Trueflight works to give amber lights in abyssea. All of these were expected results.

Work continues...



Edited, Aug 23rd 2010 12:41pm by VxSote

The base "D" value for magic WS is usually your current level +2, that is where the (75 +2) part came from. At level 80 it wouldn't be 77 it would be 82 as base D. Generic magic WS formula is,

Damage = (( Lv+2+WSC ) * fTP + fINT ) * Resist * Elemental Staves * Weather * MDIF * Magic Damage Adjustment

With WSC being the WS mod * level alpha. At 80 the level alpha seems to be .85, its raised from .83.

fINT is usually delta-INT but recent WS's have been using different values. True Flight seems to use AGI instead of INT for fINT. Blue magic damage spells frequently use different stats for this value.

fTP we already know about

Resist / Elemental staves (trilling dagger fits here I think) / weather all are standard.

MDIF is a function of MAB vs MDB, I believe MAB / MDB but please correct me if I'm wrong.


And Magic Damage Adjustment is just Magic Damage Cut, things like shell or some monsters family reduction in magic damage (Ahrmen) or even bonus in magic damage (Puddings).

Unfortunately, high defense mobs also tend to resist magic WS.

The best case scenario I can present for TF is Temenos elemental run. Against those mobs, which take reduced physical damage (albeit less of a reduction than normal elementals), in a zone with double Light weather (with Korin Obi, of course), while wielding an Apollo's Staff, while eating sushi (so no RATK from food), and while using Machine Crossbow... TF and Slug were right about equal. That should tell you all you need to know about TF as a general-damage WS.

I use TF for exactly two purposes:

1) skillchains
2) physical-immune mobs

Well i finally got around to a few tests to figure this out. The formula is pretty much junk. Lv 0 mobs in ronfuare returned the same damage for my WS. I tried with/without apollos, gorget, moldy earring and some agi gear.

Is there any info around about what the new alpha is for lv 81+? Supposedly it went up from .83 to .85 at lv 80. Is there any change 81-85? (my rng currently lv 82 doing these tests).

Anyway, each was done exactly with 100 TP (perfect 6hit with obow/holy and/or meditate) on lv 0 mobs in Wron. I repeated each set at least twice to make sure i was getting identical numbers which i did.

No Apollo's:
723: 0MAB, no gorget, 138 agi
748: 5MAB, no gorget, 138 agi
762: 0MAB, no gorget, 152 agi
754: 0MAB, Yes gorget, 144 agi
779: 5MAB, no gorget, 144 agi
770: 5MAB, Yes gorget, 138 agi

Yes Apollo's:
839: 0MAB, no gorget, 140 agi
869: 5MAB, no gorget, 140 agi
880: 0MAB, no gorget, 154 agi
885: 0MAB, Yes gorget, 146 agi
899: 5MAB, no gorget, 146 agi
895: 5MAB, Yes gorget, 140 agi

Apollos agi are 2 higher because of apollos obviously.

The formula is WAAAY off if you include the "fint cap of 24" (like down in the 500s instead of 7-800s abserved above) described in the calculating magic WS section (also converting the fint into your agi instead). However, the numbers are in the same general ballpark if you just remove the 24 cap and let your agi vs mob stat go uncapped. Plugging in an estimated .85 or even tried .87 alpha and mob stats of ~6-7 (lv 0 mobs) brought them 'close' as in within 11(smallest) to 27(max) off of the observed numbers.

No where near accurate yet, but any help figuring this out will help. I was mostly testing the effect of gorgets and MAB in slightly different builds for this above as i was mildy impressed while leveling it doing 799s @100tp in my agi build with 154 agi (left moldy at home) against IT efts. I might do some more later with larger swings in agi just to make sure we have the modifier accurate at 30% agi or not and narrow down the base formula more.

I should probably get rng from 82 to 85 1st though and find out what the new alpha is 1st though. If anyone can help with any of that, much appreciated.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 7:52pm by Banalaty

What was your gear/atmas?



It's pretty repulsive that COR/BLM with a Bedlam or Amageddon can out RNG actual RNGs by a huge margin.

ftfy.


Jishnu's doesn't have any enmity reduction like Wildfire does. Being able to WS for OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND damage doesn't do you any good when it gets you instantly killed.



Edited, Jan 23rd 2011 9:46pm by Lobivopis

It does. On normal mobs and most normal NMs my Trueflight does around 2.8-3.1k.
I use Beyond, Ultimate and Baying Moon. Have Kirin and Holy Mountain too but haven't been out to parse which does most damage yet.

Gear:
Apollo's, Pax, Gun, Bullet
Denali, Ugga, Moldy, Volley
MaB/QD Mirke, Skote, Breeze x2
Forban, Aquiline, Denali, AF3+1

Thinking about swapping 3rd atma for scorpion queen for 4hit however anyway so which is better out of BM/Kirin/HM isn't so big a deal.

Edit: Korin Obi over Aquiline on lightsday/weather.

Edited, Jan 27th 2011 3:11pm by Noodles

I would think so, but idk for sure. Inside abyssea TF acc isn't a big deal with ultimate as it has superior macc alongside it's superior mab