AymurFollow

that was the main thing to test. might test it in increments when doing magian trials to take it up to 90, to see if it improves at all. Looks like manoplas + aymur will give 100 tp bonus. so when you get manoplas, that will be pretty sweet. the attack value is known. only other thing is checking th oa2 rate on you and pet for 300% tp aftermath. most other mythics are 45%

I've not seen testing showing the +1 hands only being 25 tp bonus.

I don't know who did the "first" testing... many players have. but I think you'll find the best testing so far in this thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=8&mid=1298635397162868956&page=1

Bookmarku was more methodical and thorough than anyone else for the tp bonus.

I don't know what attack value you are talking about, asking how it is known.

if you mean the "Pet: Attack Bonus" on Aymur, well, thats the job trait, which Drk has at higher tiers than tier 4.
attack +48 at tier 4.

if you think it is not standardized... why? SE is actually very good at standardizing job traits.

Can you please clarify you're questions?

Good point about the attack bonus trait, it won't be exactly the same. However, its the most likely guess we have at present. Until I or someone else finishes testing attack values on pets, I won't be able to nail down the exact attack bonus from aymur for pets.

I've been the only one posting testing on bst pet attack values that I know of. My testing is a bit stuck at the moment. I have base + Fstr values for all the fixed level pets I can. Mainly broncha, shasra, Nazuna, and carrie. Its easy to have accurate measure of their levels. The other values are not as precise because I can only guess at the pet levels. I'm pretty sure fargann at level 90 has same base + fSTR as shasra or broncha. Nazuna actually has higher at level 90. It also grows w/ level. I'm also pretty sure shasra and broncha have higher attack values than nazuna, but its been tricky nailing it down. I need to find the boundaries where the min does not cap and the max does, and vice versa. I've tested on known def mobs like colibri and I confirmed def for all 3 levels of djinn in batallia S, but the min/max pDif just are not within the expected ranges. Nor does it appear a straight increase of 1.0 for crit hits. sometimes its .8 or .9. (I have been considering crit attack bonus trait in this). I have not been able to settle an attack range more precisely for broncha that between 740 and 860.. which is quite a big range. Also, it is clear than attack+ gear is quite effective for our pets, but exactly how good is challenging to pin down. My unexpected results indicate there is probably a fSTR comparison for our pets. that might explain why the pdif values will not turn out. I don't know the vit for my djinn test, and the colibri test doesn't have as much data.

I did not post all the detail for the spur testing. but I did it. actually, I have posted some of my results on the spur talk page on wiki. I tested tp/hit on all the new pets as posted at the beginning of the other thread. Its not hard to show this. I don't have the +1 feet to compare, but w/ the +2 feet it was not hard to confirm store tp 30 total. I posted tests w/ merle and louise. These are the highest tp gain pets. I also did another test w/ clyvonne after the last update to see if there were any changes to it, but it remains the same. only animation changed.

Edited, May 28th 2011 4:18am by Xilk

Edited, May 28th 2011 4:23am by Xilk

I and other players have done a few tests w/ the af3+2 head. I have not detected any effects so far. However, I don't think it affects us like killer instinct.. thats kinda what it sounds like you are saying. I think it acts similiar to monster correlation effects that blu gets.. but it effects our pets. I think it is supposed to improve how our pets perform vs mobs that they are strong against... I've not detected an improvement however, I saw no improvement to 1000 needles (not conclusive at all however) or wild oats vs low level rabbits. I've also seen no damage reduction from it when 1000 needles was done to my pet beetle. I've not tested it extensively though. Not sure what aspects to test. I don't remember if I tried charged whisker vs lizards w/ it... but that might be an option.

The highest level mobs that pet pdif is going to cap on are going to be between level 50.
That was one reason I was testing against Djinn. I've seen it come close on weapons in ro'maeve, and I've seen it cap on level 40ish mobs, but I haven't determined the boundary where it caps.

In my test on Greater Colibri, I saw Shasra had exactly a 0.9 improvement for max hit between melee and crits and
Shasra lvl 90
c.pdif.max - m.pdif.max = .9 (exactly)
c.pdif.min - m.pdif.min = 1.4
Nazuna lvl 86
c.pdif.max - m.pdif.max = .8 (exactly)
c.pdif.min - m.pdif.min = .98


Pdif is not capped in this situation. Capped would be 4.2 and 4.0 for max/min respectively.
You can see the parse here and my other notes here for that test. my notes are rather rough. there's some random thoughts on them as well, but the data is there.

This stuff should really be in the testing thread. I'm not sure what you mean by comparing rage on nazuna and normal sheep. Rage is probably 50%... but I'm not sure where that number came from. Its on the wiki.

You should read Kegsay's Avatar testing. Its better than mine, and more thorough. I mention it because he suggests there may be no practical difference for pets for fstr and base... They could likely be part of the same term because we do not change weapons on pets and the main thing that modifies this is level. However it is clear that base +fSTR and attack vary from pet to pet even though for same job and same level they are rather close on bst pets. I think my testing rather indicates there is some fSTR comparison for our pets. Its not conclusive, but it would help describe why pdif is all over the place on non-capped pets. At least, it was not modifiable before abyssea.

I've not quite been able to cap pdif in abyssea... but I've gotten close. If there is enough of a boost from Aymur, it might be enough w/ all the other attack+ atma to cap it on some visions mobs. Otherwise might need to wait til 99.

Its quite challenging finding the precise level or def for a mob in abyssea as well. In visions zones they cap at level 90, so that may be the best bet for testing to kill many and only record your level 90 mob stats. its still very tedious and I haven't done much of it. One could determine the def of a level 90 visions mob though, then stack the attack atma on, record min/max, then do the same on the same level 90 mobs w/out any pet attack+.

Maybe I'll try a test like that in la theine while working on my double attack axe trials.... I figure if you could cap pdif in abyssea on Nazuna at level 90, you could crit for a max of 846 damage using Nazuna, RR + SS.

I did get up around 650 w/ broncha in konschtat once.. which was only using RR and all the attack+ I could get at the time. I figure max crit is only 683 when using Razed Ruins and not SS for broncha at level 90 (but other attack+ atma). but I dont' know how much of this was from just attack + or from the STR+ on Stout arm as well...


Edited, May 28th 2011 8:54am by Xilk

Answers:
1) I don't think the fSTR is the same at all between avatars and bst. I was just putting that info out there, because it is a good reference point to compare against. As I said, the avatar model he has doesn't match the bst pet model. Even thought the pdif caps match.
2)I wasn't really thinking pet STR and attack will have a direct ratio to each other on pets. Kegsay didn't directly approach it as the only way he had to modify it significantly was thru level. WE also have more variation because our pets are War, mnk and thf, guess we have a pld and drk also, which I wouldn't mind level 99 versions of also. Avatars are blm.
3)Actually, yes, as I just went back and got harvester and siren's shadow.. skipped those before.


Thank you for the ideas on testing pet attack. I think I'll try it out. I"ll probably remove ba merits so nazuna is level 86 though. I'm glad someone else is interested in the attack values as well.


EDIT: Naw, went out and tried again. its not coming anywhere close to capping pdif in abyssea. I would need 2x magian axes at least, and probably alpha and omega atma.

Edited, May 28th 2011 6:36pm by Xilk

Only if Dharshi hooks up a parser and takes something like shasra to known vit/def mobs and records some parses of pet with and without Aymur equipped.
It sounds like Aymur gives a straight 50 tp bonus to pets just like ferine manoplas +2. So for most our war pets that 145 tp bonus (fencer) and for others its 100 tp bonus total. You only need 155% tp to max the potential for ready moves that way.

Even w/ the parses of the effect on attack we need more testing base work to figure out the exact bonus. it might also work to simply compare it to known bonuses like atma. That would mean parsing 1000 hits or so in abyssea using different intervals of attack+ on pet that are known, then compare the min and max damage hit w/ that vs just aymur.

http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/57277

Ok, got my hands into a pair of Ferine +1 and had a chance to test them in Brenner today.

Here's my recorded exact numbers with a lvl 89 Lucky Lulush using Wild Carrot

With Aymur85 only:
100TP = 434
120TP = 468

With Gloves only:
120TP = 351
170TP = 434

With Both:
120TP = 518

Not a lot of numbers I know. But it paints a picture different than my original thoughts as to what Aymur does exactly.
First, we can see that using Aymur makes you fall into the 200TP Group from Books testing. Ok, now, that brings up more questions than answers which I will get to in a moment.

Secondly, both the gloves and Aymur stack in some away. All right :D

Third, It appears that the gloves move you up two Sic/Ready Tiers (for lack of a better word and to avoid saying +30TP). It's important to note that they do not add to your pets TP directly, at least, not in the same way that Aymur does. With Aymur, you can clearly see an additional 50TP when using your <pettp> command while the gloves simply do not reproduce this effect.

Now, as to why Aymur lists an extra +50TP when readying Sic/Ready, but pushes you into the Tier for 200TP when using Wild Carrot I'm not sure yet. But it almost provides us with enough information to start reversing the sic formula a bit.
[babbling maths(can ignore at will until I get back to this after work)]
Aymur?= +50TP change modifier to 1.3 from 1.0?

(CurrentTP+50)x=New TP
(100+50)x=200
150x=200
x=1.33 (Round Down? 1.3)

Testing that...
(100+50)1.2=180 (doesn't match)
(100+50)1.25=187.5 (doesn't match)
(100+50)1.3=195 (matches)
(120+50)1.3=221 (matches)
(150+50)1.3=260 (will go test...)

So would Gloves then be....
Gloves?= Change modifier to 1.15 from 1.0?
(CurrentTP)x=New TP
120x1.3=156 (Doesn't match
120x1.2=144 (Matches)
120x1.1=132 (doesn't match)
120x1.15=138 (Matches)
121x1.2=145.2 (Matches)
170x1.2=204 (Matches)
170x1.15=195.5 (Matches)

So.....
If Aymur and Gloves stacks (which they appear to)
Aymur+Gloves?= CurrentTP+50 & Change modifier to 1.45?
(CurrentTP+50)1.5=New TP
(120+50)1.5=255 (Doesn't match)
(120+50)1.45=246.5 (matches)

hmmm so the sic/ready enhancement at 90 is same as 85.... ok anyways back to grinding the alex stage.....

75xx/30000...... fark i can see why everyone gets frustrated about this stuff over awhile...

rawr!!!!

14444/30000 alex!!!! and the frustration of grind continues!!!!

Makes two of us I'm taru as well hehe

OA2-3 is about it. Specifically, it would be awesome to know whether it procs on WS still. Relics got a boost to their double/triple damage and Mythics got OA2-3 for AM3.

Wow. Congrats on the double excellence.

level 95 dual weilding screenshot please ^.^

edit:or level 99's when can do.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 12:45pm by Xilk

Level 99 Aymur is going to up Primal Rend damage by 30%

that sounds nice. ^.^

I wants it.... ;.;)
So much content to complete still

Edit: I just looked at your ffxiah profile
Farsha is much easier to make, but not nearly as worthwhile... up to you for shinies.

How do you like dual wielding Aymur and Guttler? Aside from looking cool.

Edited, Jan 13th 2012 4:46pm by Xilk

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4991227&viewfull=1#post4991227

It's not just DA/TA, unfortunately.

Yeah, the non-stacking is why I figured on making the OA2~4x axe to pair w/ aymur... (someday!d)

I might get more DOT from my double attack axe.. but I usually want more tp. Ruinator actually makes this more true. I want to hit more weaponskills.

I have level 90 double attack axe now. I find myself wanting more tp for /dnc (which has been my prefered sub since level 30).

Also, I really don't see myself doing the 95 and 99 trials for double attack axe.

I"ll have to double check on the 99 trial for aymur.. Not sure what 100 PW Items means??

that much is given. dunno what the item is or how much it drops/kill.

actually, I'm more interested in the other trial. the afterglow doesn't really interest me.

yeah, I don't think anyone will pay that. I haven't seen which trial gets it w/out the afterglow. 100 of them is rediculous. Maybe 10 wouldn't be, but 100 is completely ridiculous, unless all of a sudden zeni becomes alot cheaper.

I would not sink 2 years into upgrading that. I wonder what the other trial is. The afterglows are not that impressive. Empyreans seem the only useful ones. I'd much rather just have the +30% primal rend damage.

thats really interesting! so Aymur is actually granting a +50 tp bonus like the gloves, but it also is giving them +50 tp, like a 1 tic instant meditate, or a dusty wing.

It means you could get 100 tp on charmed pet while you are too weak and not engaged.. by hitting sic a few times.. so that when you do engage you can start w/ a sic move.... when you have no charges on zoo hat...

yeah limited practical application but peculiar mechanics. My guess is that they originally had the +50 tp given, then when upgrading it, they added the +50 tp bonus like other weapons have.