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Pet PDT, EVA, or MDT axes???Follow

#1 Jan 28 2011 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
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sorry if this has been posted before but i need help ; ;

my questions are the following: is it better to use PET pdt axes or PET eva axes?
what about those NMs like Battlerigged Chariot that always casting Fire5 on my pet and also hits hard as hell?
i know that for single attakin mobs like Seps dipper yuly is the best, but it is impossible for me to solo a NM that casts magic, yeah you might say "make madic defense bonus axes" but its not just that, they B Chariot hits for like 280 something to my sheep o.o

anyways, please help me choose my pet axes and when to use them ; ;
#2 Jan 28 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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If you have 2 MDT axes and 2 PDT axes, you could macro swap in the MDT axes when the NM starts casting, and then swap the PDT axes back in afterwards (if you don't mind losing the TP).

As far as EVA vs PDT, that probably depends on how the NM's accuracy is. If the NM has extremely high accuracy, then you might not realize any benefit from pet evasion. On the other hand, if the NM has some dangerous TP moves that you want to minimize, pet evasion might be the way to go.
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#3 Jan 28 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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-PDT is probably best for general use if you only want to make one type for now. People like THFs, NINs, and DNCs go for evasion, because not only do they have decent evasion scores, they also have Utsusemi to support it.

DipperYuly has decent evasion, but still lacks Utsusemi. Because of this, it is not really as ideal for tanking all the sorts of things you might try to have a THF/NIN/DNC/etc tank. Yuly *will* still get hit because of no Utsusemi, so it's not like -PDT would hurt in this case, either.

MDB isn't as potent as -MDT, by the way. MDB weapons will probably not put as much of a dent in the amount of magic damage your pet takes as you would like.
#4 Jan 28 2011 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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In general use, you will find more options for -pdt than eva

However, there are several fights where the Eva is better.
Seps comes to mind. Having EVA axes for Yuly against Seps is much better than pdt axes. Alot of the damage comes from the additional poison affect from attacks. pdt won't do anything for that. Not getting hit will.

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#5 Jan 28 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Xilk wrote:
However, there are several fights where the Eva is better.
Seps comes to mind. Having EVA axes for Yuly against Seps is much better than pdt axes. Alot of the damage comes from the additional poison affect from attacks. pdt won't do anything for that. Not getting hit will.

I've also read about fights where the NM has en-drain on normal attacks, so an evasive pet with pet evasion gear is recommended (since taking damage not only hurts your pet, but heals the NM). I had forgotten about that.
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#6 Jan 28 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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ok tyvm for the answers guys. now the only armor that i got that reduces the madic dmg taken % on pet is Selemnus Belt, other than that idk what else to get for that, any help?

and as for axes, is it better to make pet magic eva axes or magic def bonus axes?? or whats the deal on that
thanks

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 9:51am by Kvana
#7 Jan 28 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Kvana wrote:
and as for axes, is it better to make pet magic eva axes or magic def bonus axes?? or whats the deal on that


The magic evasion axes cause your pet to inflict the "Magic Evasion Down" status effect on enemies they hit. They don't do anything to reduce magic used against your pet. So for damage reduction you'll be wanting "pet: magic defence bonus" axes.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 10:26am by Gii
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#8 Jan 28 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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I personally don't bother with MDB axes, there are only a couple situations where I've needed them, (like Ironclad Triturator during chainspell) 82% is almost always enough.

As far as which axe to get if you do want to go that route the MDB ones are a no brainer. MDB and PDT have increasing gains the more you stack. for example if you have 80 MDB and add 10%, you decrease damage taken by 50% if you have 80 MDB and add 15% MEVA, you decrease magic damage taken by 15%

As for other items that add to MDB/MDT there's shepherds chain and anwig salade which both have DT-, 12% between the 2, and AF3 legs+1/2 which adds to stout servant which makes it 7% DT-
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#9 Jan 28 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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joosie wrote:
As far as which axe to get if you do want to go that route the MDB ones are a no brainer. MDB and PDT have increasing gains the more you stack. for example if you have 80 MDB and add 10%, you decrease damage taken by 50% if you have 80 MDB and add 15% MEVA, you decrease magic damage taken by 15%


Although this is strictly true, it's important to note that MDB +X is not the same as (Magic) Damage Taken -X%. As far as I am aware Ducal Guard does not give MDB+50, it gives -50% DT (If I am wrong on this then please correct me).

Each point of MDB reduces the magical damage taken in the base calculation formular by 1%. Damage Taken -X% reduces all damage you take from magic sources by a flat X%, which as a seperate calculation does not directly stack with MDB. The two are applied to magic damage as seperate factors.

Adding 10 MDB to 80 MDB does indeed reduce remaining damage taken by 50% for a grand total of 90%, but damage reduction atmas are not the same as MDB atmas. So a more practical example is that you are adding MDB+10 to -80% MDT. What actually should therefore happen is this:

1) MDB+10 alters the damage calculation formular by 0.9 (1-(0.01*MDB)) - Damage reduced to 90% base.
2) -80% MDT reduces remaining damage to 20%, so that's 90%*0.2 = 18% of base.

So adding a MDB+10 axe to a high MDT build will have only a minimal impact.

This is not to say that MDB axes are useless, but they do not factor into a damage reduction build as well as the -PDT axes do into a PDT build, and more specifically 80% MDT plus MDB +20 wont give you 100% MDT, it'll give you 84% MDT.

In a pure MDB build they are great addition though; if you have no DT to factor in then every 1 point of MDB is a flat 1% of total magic damage reduced. As such, to maximise the effectiveness of your axes you want to pop on some MDB Atmas instead of damage reduction atmas (unless you can reach a higher total MDT than MBD, in which case you should do that and maybe consider switching the axes for something more useful). Atma of the Future Fabulous is the only high MDB Atma I'm aware of though, so overall you're almost always going to be better stacking MDT on top of Ducal Guard, as you'll get 50% PDT from that too.
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#10 Jan 28 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Have to admit Gii is totally right on that one. I overlooked that Ducal and zenith are MDT not MDB, So it seems if you're worried about spikes, MDB axes would help, and if chaincast is the worry, MEVA would be the way to go.

Either way though, the value of making 2 10 PDT axes is so much higher than the value of making 4 axes for MAB and MEVA. The PDT axes will make a huge difference on most harder NMs you'll fight, the others will make a tiny difference on a couple mobs only.
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#11 Jan 28 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Default
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Seps comes to mind. Having EVA axes for Yuly against Seps is much better than pdt axes. Alot of the damage comes from the additional poison affect from attacks. pdt won't do anything for that. Not getting hit will.


Again, without Utsusemi, there is no real way to prevent Yuly from eventually being hit anyway.
#12 Jan 28 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Seps comes to mind. Having EVA axes for Yuly against Seps is much better than pdt axes. Alot of the damage comes from the additional poison affect from attacks. pdt won't do anything for that. Not getting hit will.


Again, without Utsusemi, there is no real way to prevent Yuly from eventually being hit anyway.



I fought this fight using ducal guard, and I've done it using cloak and dagger. the Eva approach is much better for this fight.

Something is different w/ stout servant by the way. Tested it again today. 6.7% reduction without Quijotes. 8% with. Also seems beast bazubands were reducing 1000 needles by 1.7% kinda funny that.. didn't expect it.

/w quijotes, anwig salade, shepherds chain, you have 20% damage reduction. Magical or physical.
Ducual guard is 50% of both.
Winged Gloom is 30% of both
I've got to test tremors. I expect 10% but friend seemed to think it may be lower.
I don't have atma of the earth worm yet. I would expect 10% on that one too.

You can get 100% damage reduction on pet. I"ve held mobs that way. You can't do it and keep RR on though. YOu can get 100% reduction on physical and 80% reduction on magical and still have RR for damage. If you use Ducal Guard and Winged gloom together, I highly recommend using Mounted champion as well. Its really is a pain dealing w/ the 30/tick damage. 10/tick is much more manageable. Also make sure you don't take damage. If you have cruor buffs, your hp won't go down unless you get to your non-buffed hp level. Then unless you have someone else to cure you up, its really hard to cure yourself above that level where you don't drain right back down again. I"m galka, I go in w/ 3k hp. (6/6 merit abyssite) if I drop to 1.5k it drains me down to about 550. not a fun place to be at all.

I wonder about 10 mdb axe and 10 pdt axe together you can get 90% physical and 84% magical reduction and still keep rr. thats the most balanced/highest I think you can get so far w/out winged gloom. I guess maybe aobut 3% higher w/ selemnus belt for magic... 87%... if bazubands reduces it.. 88.7% magical and 91.7% physical.

as extreme as I think you can get it.
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#13 Jan 28 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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I fought this fight using ducal guard, and I've done it using cloak and dagger. the Eva approach is much better for this fight.


I'm not saying it isn't. Saying that an evasion build will help you "not be hit" is wrong though. Without Utsusemi, you *will* be hit. Evasion caps and all that jazz.
#14 Jan 29 2011 at 3:06 AM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
If you have 2 MDT axes and 2 PDT axes, you could macro swap in the MDT axes when the NM starts casting, and then swap the PDT axes back in afterwards (if you don't mind losing the TP).


Sorry nooby question, but how are you macroing them?

The MDT axes are next on my to do list, but as a friend recently pointed out to me I'm going to have a total of 6 Guichard's Axes. I'm now a bit stumped, when I hit my MDT macro will my axes even change seeing as I'm already using Guichard's Axes of a different variety? I dont see how it can differentiate between them and choose the ones I specifically want?

Its not to much of a problem at the moment as I tend to either use the PDT axes or the EVA axes, there is no need to macro between them mid fight, and so whenever I do switch I do it manually. But the whole point of having the MDT axes is so that I can macro them in quickly as nasty spells are being cast, doing this manually seems like it would be to slow. Now I'm not sure if I should work on the axes or not :(

Edited, Jan 29th 2011 9:09am by GenryuOfBahamut
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#15 Jan 29 2011 at 5:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's not possible at this time to make macroes for EVA, PDT and MDB axes. I also just use EVA or PDT at the moment and keep the other set in the mog sack.

But interesting thoughts about a mixed PDT/MDB axe set.
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#16 Jan 29 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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GenryuOfBahamut wrote:
svlyons wrote:
If you have 2 MDT axes and 2 PDT axes, you could macro swap in the MDT axes when the NM starts casting, and then swap the PDT axes back in afterwards (if you don't mind losing the TP).


Sorry nooby question, but how are you macroing them?

Hmmm, that's right, you couldn't macro them since they're all the same name. The only way to get macros to work would be keeping one set of axes as Guichard +1 and the other set as Guichard +2. If you wanted them all to be +2, you would have to manually swap them around. I suppose most players would be able to pull that off on longer casting spells. But it would be problematic.
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#17 Jan 29 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
GenryuOfBahamut wrote:
svlyons wrote:
If you have 2 MDT axes and 2 PDT axes, you could macro swap in the MDT axes when the NM starts casting, and then swap the PDT axes back in afterwards (if you don't mind losing the TP).


Sorry nooby question, but how are you macroing them?

Hmmm, that's right, you couldn't macro them since they're all the same name. The only way to get macros to work would be keeping one set of axes as Guichard +1 and the other set as Guichard +2. If you wanted them all to be +2, you would have to manually swap them around. I suppose most players would be able to pull that off on longer casting spells. But it would be problematic.


Ah thats a good idea, I didnt think of that. I think I might just keep a set of +1 MDT axes, for ease of macroing, and keep one of the other sets, either the PDT or the EVA set in my Mog Sack depending on what I'm doing.

There isnt a great deal of difference between the +1 & +2 at the moment for it to make much difference (Though whether thats still the case by the time the lv.99 versions are released is another matter ><).

Anyway thanks! You just stopped me from giving in on the MDT axes ^^
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