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Conclusive jug testingFollow

#352 Dec 29 2012 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
I'm planning on it if you don't.. but I'm doing some other tests on the test server atm...

a while ago, I tried to see if run wild or familiar had an attack bonus to it. However, in light of your recent testing, it seems my targets were too weak.
if you want to feel free. otherwise. I'll include it at the end of my current run. Update time seems a fine time to be on test server imo.


Have you made any progress on this? :) I'm in the process of working on it...

Lvl 93 PrestoJulio vs Lvl 93 Hispid Rarab (160 exp):
                  Melee Dmg     Crit Dmg      Accuracy 
Without Familiar    93~154       191~282       93.84% 
With Familiar       93~154       191~279       93.37% 
With Run Wild      104~182       219~297       94.52% 
With Pet:Atk+50    104~170       203~299       92.92% 

Lvl 93 PrestoJulio vs Lvl 94 Hispid Rarab (166 exp):
                  Melee Dmg     Crit Dmg      Accuracy 
Without Familiar    85~144       179~271       94.03% 
With Familiar       86~143       178~272       93.80% 
With Run Wild       98~172       204~290       94.08% 
With Pet:Atk+50     96~160       196~283       91.67% 

The Run Wild parse is still in progress (takes quite a while because of the recast ; ; ), but there is an attack boost associated with it. Will edit in the details when I have more info.

Edit: Got enough samples to include the Lvl 93 Hispid Rarab Run Wild data. It's a decent chunk of attack (probably Pet: Attack +50ish, I'll try to get a parse to see how close the Melee range gets). Crit Rate is still hovering around 12.6% which is pretty normal, so I doubt there's a boost there. I can do an accuracy check afterwards on Flameskimmer. :)

Edit2: So after all that, I'm seeing Familiar giving no bonus to attack, but Run Wild giving some amount around +60ish. I did a brief parse with Pet: Attack +72 and the melee range was higher (had a non-crit for 201 damage on Lvl 93 Hispid Rarab) so the Run Wild bonus is somewhere in the middle. Similar to the Cabasset +1/+2, I'm not entirely convinced it's a flat bonus to attack - perhaps I could demonstrate this in the same fashion as before. But after parsing for 6 hours, it's time for a break...

Edited, Dec 29th 2012 1:07pm by Bookmarku
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#353 Dec 29 2012 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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We can probably conclude from that parse that level correction does apply to pets. The question is what would happen with a level 93 Presto Julio vs. a level 92 monster.
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#354 Jan 03 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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I tested w/ the charmed mnk. The damage range is very close.
low/hi
143/203


my def was higher in abyssea due to the vit+. However I believe there is no change in pet mechanics in brenner. I think we can use it just fine for further testing.



I'm thinking mnk for the low def sample... get ~600 hits

then we'll want higher def samples as well. but I'm not sure what def levels would be useful.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2013 7:11pm by Xilk
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#355 Jan 04 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Matching your VIT to the monster's (or getting it closer somehow) would probably be useful. The problem with your monk sample is that we don't know the pet's base damage, so we don't know its pDIF. Should do this:
* Find a monster and determine its VIT and the base damage of your pet against it (probably due to capping pDIF)
* Set your VIT to be the same as the monster's (or, if that is not possible, some multiple of 4 more than the monster's. So, like, +24 VIT more than the monster and we assume -6 base damage for the pet).
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#356 Jan 05 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some testing has been done which has some implications for BST gearing. :o

From a while ago, there was news of partial set bonuses on the new Salvage +1 gear (so the possibility of Critical Hit Rate+3%ish from 2 pieces of Skadi?) and now the Skadi body +1 is looking like 7% Dual Wield enhancement.

Ocelomeh +1/Toci's Harness is losing to Skadi's Visor +1/Skadi's Cuirie +1 from what I can tell.
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#357 Jan 10 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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I went out yesterday and confirmed that pets/avatars/monsters use either exactly the same fSTR equations as players, or very similar equations. I chose to use avatars for this testing because their base damage is lower (so the monster lasts longer). Basically I went in to Abyssea and used celestial avatars with varying amounts of +STR from Atma (0,10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100). I targeted EM Bluffalo because we know their VIT (/DEF). There is a very obvious frequency spike at 1.0 pDIF, so that lets me know the avatar's base damage (lowest number in this frequency spike).

My results match the fSTR equations for either D48/104STR or D47/108STR. They do not match for any other combination. I could tell the difference between these two cases if I was capable of adding 1~4 or 9 STR to my Avatar (or reducing the monster's VIT by 1~4 or 9). I should be able to use Choke with my 85 INT mule to lower the Bluffalo's VIT by 9 and figure out exactly what the D/STR combination is.
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#358 Jan 11 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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wild oats from merle is exactly -9 vit.

otherwise I need to review the fstr formula's a bit more to understand how to use this and aid in testing.
As I understand level 99 bluffalo have 118 vit and 516 def.

I"m not sure how to identify this change when you add str. The low damage changes by a large amount?

Also, are there level 99 bluffalo randomly or do you need to work them up to the level? I imagine it to be quite tedious to find them and you would need to manually separate a parse, because xp values in aby are not static for level.



also back in page 6, figster applied this formula to the base damages for level 99 pets:

Damage rating=weapon dmg + weapon rank+8

to determine a damage ranking for all the bst pets based off the level 1 mob kill tests I did.

Would you have reason to think this may not be accurate? It estimates the damage from gorefang hobs to be 109.

Also, can you turn the same formula around to determine the str of the level 99 pets?
If it works, It seems to put the str at 131... not sure if that is right.

Figster estimated gorefangs dex as 105~108 from my G. colibri parse.


Edited, Jan 11th 2013 10:14am by Xilk
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#359 Jan 13 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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Confirmed that Avatars are D47, 108 STR. It matches all my data points and nothing else does.

You can estimate base damage that way, but you make several assumptions about how monster fSTR works, you assume monster weapon rank is calculated the same way as player fSTR, etc. This was just a test to show that monsters probably actually do use the same fSTR equations as players.


Reading over what he did, the DEX value might be correct (or it might not be. That amount of data leaves a huge range of possibilities). I really don't follow his base damage calculations, but 109 is a viable option (again, not enough data from the parse to really know. Also, there have been some indications that monsters do not ever "cap" fSTR and will continue to increase indefinitely, which would totally throw off his analysis. When Kegsay was fighting level 0 monsters with his avatars at 75, he used Ecliptic Growl and noticed an increase in avatar base damage. Now, you'd expect an Avatar would be fSTR capped on level 1 monsters even at level 75, but not so. This indicates that avatar/monster/pet fSTR caps either don't exist or are different from players, so you can't necessarily back-calculate the base damage of a pet using its base damage against level 0 monsters.

Some un-published PUP research also (weirdly) showed that Auto base damage for the Sharpshot frame depends on both auto STR and DEX, and that is cappable (barely against level 0 monsters) using Animator +1 and AF1 hands.

So yeah, pet base damage is far from a closed book, but at least we know that they likely use fSTR equations that are similar to players.

Edited, Jan 13th 2013 6:07pm by Byrthnoth
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#360 Jan 13 2013 at 6:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes I do remember reading that from kegsey. I would not be surprised if mob fstr doesn't cap.

Would BST pet parses vs level 99 buffalo be useful?

What would one look for?
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#361 Jan 13 2013 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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You're looking for a frequency spike that represents 1.0 pDIF in the "Offense Details" tab. For instance, this is from my Choke (-9 VIT) parse:
Garuda 
Melee 
39:    2 
         40:    1 
         43:    4 
         44:    2 
         45:    4 
         46:    4 
         47:    1 
         48:   13 
 ^       49:   12 
+        50:   15 
         51:    3 
         52:    2 
         54:    2 
         56:    3 
         57:    2 
         58:    2 
         59:    5 
         60:    1 
         61:    1 
         63:    3 
         64:    1 
         65:    1 
Melee Crits 
84:    1 
         85:    1 
         92:    1 
         94:    1 
         95:    1 
+        97:    2 
        107:    1 
 ^      108:    1 
+       109:    2 
+       110:    2 
        111:    1 
        112:    1 
        116:    1 
 
 


See the huge frequency spike from 48 to 50? That represents Base damage * 1.0 pDIF * (1~1.05 random multiplier), so my base damage for this parse is 48. 48*1.05 = 50.4, which floors to 50. As far as getting level 99 Bluffalo to fight, it's not actually that hard. You can level them up (really easy for SMN with the spammable SP2 on the test server), and once you've leveled them up enough they'll always respawn as EM or T.

It's worth noting that a single parse will not tell you the pet's base damage. In order to figure this out for summoner, I parsed something like 12 different STR values for my avatar (using Atma) and then fit the fSTR curve to it. If I had done it in a more controlled/planned way I probably could have gotten away with fewer points, but I had two summoners on the test server and just wanted to grind it out.

Edited, Jan 13th 2013 7:59pm by Byrthnoth
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#362 Jan 18 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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It looks like SE may have indirectly confirmed that monster ratio caps at 2.0:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=5564270&viewfull=1#post5564270

Quote:
Depending on the opponent's attack value, if the player's defense value is 50% or higher, the damage reduction will increase. If the player's defense value is less than 50%, the damage reduction will be the same as if it was 50%.


This is saying, I think, that if the monster has twice as much Attack as you have Defense then there are no further increases in damage above that. They also discuss level correction for monsters. This would confirm what we saw earlier in this thread, where Pet Attack had no effect against low level monsters.

It is likely that whatever changes SE makes to monsters will apply to BST pets, so these changes are very important for pet damage. Raising the Ratio cap and decreasing/eliminating level correction would hurt BST damage a lot against low level targets, but would improve the maximum damage against EM+ monsters with sufficient pet attack. The lack of pet attack buffs in the game (and considering that the ones that do exist aren't used) probably means that this will be a net nerf, unless pets have far more attack than we realize.
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#363 Jan 18 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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I find this incredibly ironic that they announce this information only shortly after we seemd to discover it for pets. (when/how did you learn that level correction factor of 0.05/level for mobs vs players, anyway?)

blah, if I had time right now, I would search the 6~7 new jp dev posts to double check the translation looking for more insight,... however the community rep team will start posting their translations before I could do that now... oh well, I read a good book this morning instead.

My first concern reading this is that the changes proposed may make it harder for some of our pets to tank lower level mobs as well as they currently do. Our pets can tank huge masses of lower level stuff because of this level correction as well. BST might not be able to take hugely reduced physical/magical damage from nukes from lower level NMs. I"m thinking of tanking a bunch of quest nms which now the magic still hits players like a truck but pets it rolls off of.

You can't say w/out hard numbers though. It would make the actual stats from pet to pet matter more. You would actually have more of a difference I think w/ raphie tanking in some cases. Things like Harden shell and Water wall would mean somthing. BST would also see a difference in damage of our pets vs lower level mobs. If they make this change it would make it much easier to determine pet attack values.

At the same time, This seems it would make the damage mechanics for bst to be much closer to other players. If the level correction does nerf our pets vs high level targets completely, then bst might be useful in something like legion (OUCH they ripped our pets apart).

If they are gonna do this and it DOES balance bst out more w/ other players, then I REALLY want charming back.


Edited, Jan 18th 2013 2:33pm by Xilk

Edited, Jan 18th 2013 4:32pm by Xilk
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#364 Jan 18 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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It was a number thrown out by Motenten to account for the high damage done to players by monsters that were many levels above them. I think he then verified it. I'm not sure it's precise, but it seems to be about right as far as I can tell. It's probably possible to look through this thread and figure it out a little more accurately if I get the time <_<;;
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#365 Jan 19 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a number known from back in the early pDif re-calculations a few years ago, and even then it was old news.

Because of the fuzziness of how cRatio is calculated, and that we don't have a truly precise value for even un-corrected values right now, and that to tell the difference between 0.05 and 50/1024 and 51/1024 or anything like that would take tens of thousands of samples, I'm fine with just assuming a flat 0.05 per level.
#366 Jan 21 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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Byrthnoth wrote:
The lack of pet attack buffs in the game (and considering that the ones that do exist aren't used) probably means that this will be a net nerf, unless pets have far more attack than we realize.


This is what I am concerned about, and god knows, the last thing BST needs is a(nother) nerf.
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#367 Feb 01 2013 at 2:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bit of analysis


Crit range for lvl 61-64 targets: 509 - 534
509 * 1.05 = 534.45

Taking out Crit Attack Bonus II, +8%
472 * 1.08 = 509.76

Assuming that is at the 4.0 cap, base damage is 472 / 4 = 118

Non-crit high is 495

495 / 118 = 4.195

4.2 would be 4.0 * 1.05 spread
118 * 4 * 1.05 = 495.6

Minimum damage for lvl 61 mobs: 472
472 = 118 * 4, exactly at cap

Lvl 56-58 had 476 max (and 476 * 1.05 = 499.8, same as observed 499 max), for a 119 base damage. Lvl 59 had 472 max, for 118 base damage. So fStr went up on the lvl 58 and lower mobs.



Min damage for Lvl 61-64:

 
Lvl   Dmg   pDif 
61:   472   4.000 
62:   466   3.949 - 3.958 
63:   458   3.881 - 3.890 
64:   451   3.822 - 3.830 


Max damage remained constant at 495. That means pDif is dropping below max.

NOTE: For player pDif, the cap is applied -after- the pDif randomization, but before the 1.05 randomization. To illustrate:

1-handed weapon. Max Ratio: 2.0. Crit = 2.0 + 1 = 3.0. pDif is applied to the 3.0 value, giving a range between 2.625 and 3.375. Anything between 3.0 and 3.375 is capped at 3.0, leaving about half of all observed values below 3.0.

2-handed weapon. Max Ratio: 2.25. Crit = 2.25 + 1 = 3.25. pDif is applied to the 3.25 value, giving a range between 2.875 and 3.625. Anything between 3.0 and 3.625 is capped at 3.0, leaving only a small fraction of values falling below 3.0.

-IF- this sort of behavior applies to mobs/pets as well then the post-crit total has to be high enough that its min value does not fall below 4.0, for the lvl 61 target. If you still have the parses then the frequency of the hit values would be important to know, as that would show if it's only generating a small trickle of lower values as the potential min pDif falls below 4.0.

Going back to the numbers above, and using the pDif required to get those values, it's apparent that they are dropping by more than the 0.05 per level that might be expected. In fact, it seems closer to 0.06 per level. At 0.06 per level, the values would decrease as:

4.0
3.94
3.88
3.82

Which are almost perfect matches for the observed minimums (given their sample size).

If that is the case, then the level correction for a level 99 pet vs level 61 mob would be 38 * 0.06 = +2.28. That would put final ratio adjustment at 4.28, and means min pDif offset would be no more than about -0.28 (player's is -0.375, but it reaches that cap at 3.0; it could very well go lower as ratio progresses to 4.0, as the offset also decreases on the way from 2.0 to 3.0). If the min pDif offset were, say, -0.25, the level correction could be -61/1024 per level.

In order to determine if this is sound, you need to find the exact attack value for the pet. This can be experimentally estimated by finding a point where the pet's min damage drops below 1.0 pDif, as that occurs as you drop below 1.25 cRatio, vs a target with no level correction (eg: Bluffalo). You can then compare that with what you might expect from calculating level/stats/skills to see if it matches up.

Once you've done that, find another target (probably with a much lower defense) with a level about 4-5 below EM (may take some work to find someone with an appropriately levelled job who can verify it, if you're in Abyssea) where you can be sure you can hit a 2.0 Ratio with whatever buffs/gear/etc you have. Ideally get about 1000 hits on that level target (though 500 can probably suffice) and look at the value offsets to determine whether the level correction holds for 0.05, or requires 0.06.


Edit: Oh,also need to find the proper base damage against the new target mob, obviously. Or get str/vit values.

Edited, Feb 1st 2013 2:40am by Kinematics
#368 Feb 01 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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I have all my parses.

Offense Details:
Level 64 lizards:

Melee
451: 1
452: 1
453: 1
455: 2
458: 2
459: 2
460: 1
461: 3
462: 4
463: 3
464: 4
465: 1
466: 3
468: 1
469: 4
470: 1
471: 3
472: 10
473: 10
474: 9
475: 8
476: 10
477: 9
478: 9
479: 7
480: 6
^ 481: 8
482: 11
+ 483: 14
484: 10
485: 6
486: 10
487: 9
488: 6
489: 11
490: 8
491: 7
492: 7
493: 3
494: 4
495: 6
Melee Crits
509: 2
511: 1
513: 3
514: 1
+ 515: 4
517: 1
518: 1
521: 3
522: 1
^ 523: 2
524: 1
527: 2
528: 2
529: 1
530: 2
+ 531: 4
532: 1
533: 2
534: 1

Level 63

Melee
458: 2
465: 2
466: 1
467: 1
468: 1
469: 2
471: 4
472: 12
473: 16
474: 10
475: 3
+ 476: 20
477: 11
478: 6
479: 7
480: 8
481: 11
482: 13
^ 483: 18
484: 13
485: 4
486: 12
487: 14
488: 7
489: 12
490: 10
491: 11
492: 9
493: 6
494: 14
495: 17
Melee Crits
509: 1
510: 1
511: 1
513: 4
514: 1
515: 4
516: 2
517: 4
518: 5
519: 2
520: 3
521: 1
522: 2
^ 523: 2
524: 3
525: 1
527: 1
528: 2
529: 2
530: 3
531: 6
532: 1
+ 533: 7
534: 6

Level 62
Melee
469: 1
472: 12
473: 14
474: 8
475: 7
476: 8
477: 13
478: 7
479: 14
480: 12
481: 12
482: 14
^ 483: 13
484: 10
485: 12
+ 486: 19
487: 9
488: 15
489: 9
490: 12
491: 9
492: 10
493: 8
494: 5
495: 7
Melee Crits
509: 3
510: 5
513: 3
514: 2
515: 1
516: 3
517: 2
518: 2
519: 4
520: 4
^ 521: 4
522: 2
523: 3
525: 1
527: 2
528: 2
529: 5
530: 1
531: 1
532: 3
533: 2
+ 534: 7

Level 61

Melee
472: 9
473: 14
474: 6
475: 8
476: 5
477: 10
478: 10
479: 9
480: 9
481: 8
482: 11
+ 483: 15
^ 484: 6
485: 13
486: 11
487: 5
488: 9
489: 7
490: 6
491: 11
492: 11
493: 11
494: 12
495: 9
498: 1
503: 1
507: 1
509: 1
511: 1
Melee Crits
+ 509: 3
510: 2
511: 1
513: 1
514: 1
515: 2
516: 1
517: 1
518: 2
520: 1
522: 1
^ 523: 2
+ 524: 3
525: 2
+ 527: 3
528: 1
531: 1
532: 2
533: 1
+ 534: 3



This data is from the parse w/ no pet attack+ btw.

Edited, Feb 1st 2013 11:37am by Xilk
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#369 Feb 01 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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Since attack doesn't seem to affect the damage on these; I combined 3 of my parses to have a larger sample size of the spreads. This combines the attack +60, max attack+ (aymur + ferine cabasset, exact values unknown, but probaly around attack + 200 total), and the no attack+ parse.)
I am not sure if/how the attack+ affects the spread.

Level 64 Lizards:

Melee
450: 1
451: 2
452: 3
453: 2
454: 4
455: 4
456: 2
457: 2
458: 5
459: 5
460: 4
461: 7
462: 10
463: 10
464: 14
465: 8
466: 7
467: 4
468: 6
469: 15
470: 7
471: 11
472: 52
+ 473: 56
474: 41
475: 46
476: 50
477: 38
478: 45
479: 35
480: 35
^ 481: 39
482: 47
483: 53
484: 51
485: 34
486: 47
487: 41
488: 30
489: 47
490: 32
491: 34
492: 44
493: 27
494: 23
495: 32
Melee Crits
509: 13
510: 7
511: 9
513: 14
514: 7
+ 515: 16
516: 6
517: 10
518: 6
519: 3
520: 8
+^ 521: 16
522: 6
523: 12
524: 11
525: 3
527: 10
528: 8
529: 7
530: 12
531: 9
532: 11
533: 10
534: 3

Level 63:
Melee
458: 4
460: 1
461: 1
462: 1
463: 1
464: 2
465: 4
466: 6
467: 4
468: 5
469: 5
470: 6
471: 13
472: 42
473: 49
474: 40
475: 28
476: 51
477: 37
478: 30
479: 33
480: 37
481: 40
482: 53
^ 483: 46
484: 41
485: 18
486: 43
487: 44
488: 26
489: 43
490: 35
491: 38
492: 37
493: 35
+ 494: 56
495: 51
Melee Crits
509: 6
510: 4
511: 10
513: 11
514: 4
515: 12
516: 3
517: 16
518: 16
519: 11
520: 8
521: 7
522: 8
^ 523: 10
524: 9
525: 6
527: 6
528: 12
529: 10
530: 12
531: 15
532: 7
+ 533: 23
534: 15

Level 62:
Melee
464: 1
466: 2
467: 1
469: 3
470: 3
472: 37
473: 43
474: 31
475: 31
476: 33
477: 43
478: 35
479: 51
480: 41
481: 40
482: 38
^ 483: 36
484: 31
485: 39
+ 486: 59
487: 37
488: 40
489: 28
490: 32
491: 29
492: 49
493: 27
494: 27
495: 32
Melee Crits
509: 9
510: 13
511: 11
513: 6
514: 7
515: 5
516: 10
517: 7
518: 5
519: 12
520: 9
521: 11
^ 522: 8
523: 10
524: 4
525: 7
527: 7
528: 11
529: 12
530: 6
531: 5
532: 13
533: 7
+ 534: 18

Level 61:
Melee
472: 42
473: 43
474: 33
475: 33
476: 25
477: 39
478: 35
479: 35
480: 33
481: 28
482: 35
^ 483: 44
484: 35
485: 42
486: 30
487: 28
488: 32
489: 25
490: 30
491: 31
492: 36
+ 493: 45
494: 38
495: 29
498: 2
503: 2
507: 2
509: 2
511: 2
Melee Crits
509: 6
510: 6
511: 7
513: 5
514: 6
515: 6
516: 3
517: 7
518: 6
519: 7
520: 7
521: 2
522: 4
^ 523: 9
524: 6
525: 10
527: 10
528: 4
529: 6
530: 1
531: 8
532: 10
533: 8
+ 534: 12



Edited, Feb 1st 2013 11:39am by Xilk

Edited, Feb 1st 2013 11:40am by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#370 Feb 01 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,236 posts
For level 61, distribution between 472 and 495 damage is pretty much even. There are 5 hits above 495 that don't make sense, where each occurred once. Some spurious effect?

For level 62, even distribution between 472 and 495, with a single hit that dropped below that. If there was no -pDif offset (ie: the base cRatio was exactly 4.0, and spread is entirely upwards), the frequency of the <4.0 hits should have been higher, and should have covered 470-471 as well.

For level 63, there's a low rate below 4.0, and a higher rate above 4.0. Each half of those appears to have fairly even distribution within its range.

For level 64: similar to level 63.


Combined totals:

Level 61: Same as the single parse. Also interesting to note that the exact same damage values over 495 got an extra spurious hit in there.

Levels 62-64: Same split, even distribution within each range (above and below 4.0).

Combined mins:
61: 472
62: 464
63: 458
64: 450

Given the spread, I'd anticipate 457 possibly being a true min for level 63 (8 points between 64 and 63, but 6 points between 63 and 62); however there were 4 instances of 458, so it might just be a flooring issue.

Min pDifs:
61: 4.0
62: 3.9322 - 3.9407 [3.94]
63: 3.8814 - 3.8898 [3.88?]
64: 3.8136 - 3.8220 [3.82]


Given that the only shift has to be constrained to level correction, the only way these numbers make sense is with +0.06 per level. Each of them contains the range of such an offset, except for level 63, and given that 63 appeared likely to have 457 as a 'true' minimum; that 457 would match a 3.88 cRatio; and that the pDif range for 458 damage doesn't contain either 3.88 or 3.89, it seems extremely likely that level 63 should be 3.88.


Now, what is likely the total pDif range (min to max)?

Lost to 1.05 spread (approximate):
62: 85% of hits below 4.0 (70% at min, 100% at max)
63: 69% of hits below 4.0 (38% at min, 100% at max)
64: 53% of hits below 4.0 (6% at min, 100% at max)

Combine that with the observed rate of hits below 4.0:

62: 10 hits below, 889 above. 1.1% of all hits below 4.0
63: 53 hits below, 953 above. 5.3% of all hits below 4.0
64: 133 hits below, 979 above. 12.0% of all hits below 4.0

And we can make a rough guess as to the size of the full pDif range:
62: 0.818
63: 0.702
64: 0.705

The small sample size of level 62 leaves us with a fairly wide margin of error. However it's fairly close to the other two values, and those two match each other. We can assume the full pDif range to have a width of approximately 0.7.

The full width of the pDif range at 3.0 cRatio is 0.75, with min and max offsets capped at 0.375 each. With the above numbers, it's not implausible that the full range is still that same 0.75.

However one must also note that the level 61 mobs' level correction + offset has to land at almost exactly 4.0, in order for the higher mobs to show -0.06 per level. This is likely to be deliberate. That also means that 0.375 is not quite viable as a pDif offset. 0.36 would be a better match, should the total pDif range be closer to 0.72.

TEST: You could determine the full width by sampling mobs of at least level 70 (preferably mobs with low defense, such as Colibri), as that should reduce cRatio enough that the max pDif should be below 4.0, while we can still use the crit damage to determine the base weapon damage without worrying about determining str and vit. You'll want max attack on this test just to be sure that Ratio is remaining capped.

#371 Feb 01 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
I already have parses w/ what you are asking for. I made them when trying to find what point the pdif would cap at 4.0.
Here's my summary of parses vs a few levels of Seaboard Vultures and Peiste from the previous page. I'll add the offense details as well.

 
seaboard vulture 
              	Def	Hits	M.low	M.high	C.Hits	C.low	C.high 
Lvl 83        	355	254	287	401	35	461	515 
att + 62	355	272	301	403	28	455	515 
Lvl 84        	361	325	289	387	39	444	511 
att + 62	361	178	296	394	21	460	508 


 
Peiste 73~76	Def	Hits	M.low	M.high	C.Hits	C.low	C.high 
73 (44xp)	310	142	368	466	22	488	511 
74 (47 xp)	315	264	365	466	40	488	511 
75 (50 xp)	320	263	354	455	38	483	507 
76 (52 xp)	325	200	350	449	33	483	507 
							 
ATT +62							 
Peiste 73~76	Def	Hits	M.low	M.high	C.Hits	C.low	C.high 
73 (44xp)	310	247	371	474	26	489	511 
74 (47 xp)	315	255	360	465	38	489	511 
75 (50 xp)	320	196	355	455	32	483	507 
76 (52 xp)	325	252	349	445	40	483	507 


no pet att+
Level 76 Peiste:

Melee
350: 1
352: 1
354: 2
356: 1
358: 2
359: 4
360: 5
361: 1
363: 2
364: 4
365: 2
367: 2
368: 2
369: 2
370: 1
371: 2
373: 3
374: 1
375: 1
376: 2
377: 1
378: 1
379: 2
380: 4
381: 4
382: 1
383: 2
+ 384: 7
385: 3
386: 1
388: 2
389: 1
390: 2
392: 2
393: 3
394: 1
395: 2
396: 1
397: 1
^ 398: 2
399: 3
400: 6
401: 3
402: 3
403: 1
405: 2
406: 1
407: 5
408: 3
409: 1
410: 1
411: 1
413: 1
414: 3
415: 2
419: 3
420: 4
421: 2
422: 2
424: 1
425: 2
427: 2
428: 2
429: 2
430: 1
431: 2
432: 1
433: 3
434: 3
435: 1
436: 2
437: 2
440: 2
441: 3
443: 1
444: 2
445: 2
446: 1
449: 1
Melee Crits
483: 1
485: 2
486: 1
487: 2
+ 488: 3
490: 1
491: 1
492: 2
493: 2
+^ 496: 3
+ 497: 3
498: 1
499: 1
500: 2
501: 2
+ 502: 3
505: 2
507: 1

Level 75 Peiste

Melee
354: 2
357: 2
359: 1
362: 1
363: 2
364: 3
366: 1
367: 3
368: 1
369: 1
370: 1
371: 3
372: 3
373: 3
374: 4
375: 4
377: 2
378: 5
379: 2
380: 3
381: 1
382: 3
383: 3
386: 4
387: 4
388: 3
390: 2
392: 3
393: 3
394: 3
395: 1
396: 4
397: 1
398: 2
399: 3
+ 400: 6
401: 4
402: 5
403: 4
404: 3
405: 1
^ 406: 3
407: 4
408: 1
409: 3
410: 3
411: 3
412: 2
413: 3
414: 5
415: 1
416: 2
417: 2
418: 5
419: 1
420: 2
421: 2
423: 3
424: 1
425: 4
426: 2
427: 4
428: 2
429: 3
431: 2
432: 4
434: 5
435: 4
436: 2
437: 4
438: 3
439: 2
440: 3
441: 2
442: 4
443: 2
444: 2
445: 3
446: 1
447: 3
448: 3
451: 2
452: 1
453: 1
455: 1
Melee Crits
483: 3
484: 2
485: 1
486: 2
487: 3
491: 1
492: 2
493: 3
495: 1
496: 1
^ 497: 2
498: 2
+ 500: 4
501: 3
502: 1
503: 3
505: 1
506: 2
507: 1

Level 74 Peiste

Melee
365: 2
366: 3
367: 1
370: 2
371: 5
372: 3
373: 1
374: 2
375: 4
376: 2
377: 3
378: 6
379: 1
380: 4
381: 4
382: 2
383: 1
384: 2
385: 2
386: 3
387: 5
388: 2
389: 1
390: 1
391: 2
392: 3
393: 6
394: 4
395: 2
396: 2
397: 2
398: 4
399: 4
400: 4
402: 1
403: 4
404: 2
405: 3
406: 2
407: 3
408: 1
411: 1
^ 412: 1
413: 4
414: 4
415: 1
417: 2
418: 2
419: 3
420: 1
421: 3
422: 5
423: 1
424: 4
425: 1
426: 6
427: 2
428: 1
429: 2
430: 4
431: 4
432: 5
433: 4
434: 3
435: 3
436: 2
437: 1
438: 2
439: 4
440: 1
441: 1
442: 1
+ 444: 7
445: 1
446: 4
447: 3
449: 1
450: 2
451: 2
453: 1
454: 1
455: 1
456: 2
457: 2
458: 3
461: 1
462: 1
463: 1
466: 1
Melee Crits
488: 2
489: 1
490: 2
491: 2
492: 2
493: 2
495: 1
496: 3
497: 2
500: 3
+^ 501: 6
502: 2
503: 2
504: 2
505: 2
506: 2
509: 2
510: 1
511: 1

Level 73 Peiste
Melee
368: 1
377: 2
378: 1
379: 1
380: 2
381: 1
382: 2
383: 2
384: 2
386: 2
387: 1
392: 1
393: 1
394: 2
397: 1
398: 1
399: 2
400: 2
401: 4
402: 1
403: 3
404: 3
406: 1
407: 3
408: 2
409: 1
411: 4
412: 2
414: 1
419: 3
420: 3
421: 1
422: 3
423: 3
424: 1
425: 2
^ 426: 4
427: 2
+ 428: 6
429: 4
430: 2
433: 3
434: 3
435: 2
436: 2
437: 1
438: 2
440: 1
441: 1
442: 1
443: 1
444: 5
445: 2
446: 1
447: 1
448: 4
449: 1
450: 1
451: 2
452: 2
453: 2
454: 3
455: 3
456: 1
457: 1
458: 3
459: 1
460: 1
461: 1
462: 1
463: 1
466: 1
Melee Crits
488: 2
489: 1
493: 1
494: 2
496: 1
497: 1
+ 498: 3
^ 502: 2
503: 2
505: 2
507: 1
508: 1
510: 1
511: 2


Pet attack +62
Level 76 peiste
Melee
349: 1
350: 3
353: 2
354: 2
355: 1
356: 1
357: 2
358: 1
359: 3
360: 1
361: 3
362: 2
364: 2
365: 3
366: 4
367: 4
368: 4
369: 2
370: 4
371: 3
372: 4
373: 2
374: 2
376: 3
377: 2
378: 1
379: 2
380: 5
381: 4
382: 3
383: 4
385: 1
386: 1
387: 2
389: 3
390: 2
391: 1
392: 6
393: 1
395: 4
396: 1
397: 4
^ 398: 1
+ 399: 8
401: 5
402: 3
403: 5
404: 1
405: 2
406: 5
407: 3
408: 2
409: 3
410: 2
411: 3
412: 3
413: 2
414: 2
415: 2
417: 3
418: 3
420: 1
421: 1
422: 4
424: 6
425: 6
426: 1
427: 2
428: 2
429: 2
430: 4
431: 2
432: 2
433: 2
434: 3
436: 2
437: 3
438: 1
439: 1
441: 2
445: 1
Melee Crits
483: 2
485: 1
486: 2
487: 3
488: 1
490: 1
491: 3
+ 492: 4
493: 3
^ 494: 1
495: 1
496: 2
497: 1
498: 1
499: 2
500: 2
501: 2
502: 3
505: 3
506: 1
507: 1

Level 75 Peiste
Melee
355: 1
356: 1
357: 1
359: 2
360: 1
361: 1
362: 2
364: 2
365: 1
366: 1
368: 1
369: 5
370: 3
371: 2
372: 4
373: 1
374: 2
375: 5
376: 3
378: 3
379: 1
380: 4
381: 2
383: 2
384: 4
385: 1
386: 1
387: 1
388: 5
389: 2
390: 1
392: 1
393: 2
394: 1
395: 1
396: 2
398: 2
399: 3
400: 3
^ 401: 3
402: 2
403: 3
404: 2
406: 4
407: 3
409: 3
410: 3
411: 2
412: 2
413: 4
414: 1
416: 1
417: 1
419: 1
421: 1
422: 2
423: 1
424: 3
426: 3
427: 3
428: 1
+ 429: 6
431: 2
432: 1
433: 1
434: 2
435: 3
436: 1
437: 2
438: 1
439: 3
440: 2
441: 1
442: 2
443: 1
449: 3
450: 1
452: 1
455: 1
Melee Crits
483: 1
485: 1
486: 2
487: 1
488: 1
490: 2
491: 3
492: 1
493: 2
+^ 494: 4
495: 1
496: 1
497: 1
498: 1
500: 1
501: 1
502: 2
503: 3
505: 1
507: 2

Level 74 Peiste
Melee
360: 2
361: 1
362: 2
366: 1
370: 1
371: 1
372: 1
373: 2
374: 1
375: 3
376: 2
377: 1
378: 1
379: 2
380: 1
381: 1
384: 2
385: 1
386: 3
387: 3
388: 3
389: 2
390: 4
391: 2
392: 1
393: 3
394: 5
395: 2
+ 396: 7
400: 4
401: 2
402: 3
403: 5
404: 1
405: 1
407: 3
408: 1
409: 5
410: 3
411: 3
412: 2
413: 4
414: 3
415: 2
416: 2
^ 417: 4
418: 2
419: 3
420: 2
421: 2
422: 1
423: 2
+ 424: 7
425: 3
427: 5
428: 2
429: 1
430: 4
432: 4
433: 5
434: 4
435: 1
436: 2
437: 5
438: 3
439: 1
440: 5
441: 2
442: 4
443: 6
444: 3
445: 4
446: 1
447: 2
448: 2
450: 3
451: 3
452: 1
454: 3
456: 3
461: 4
462: 1
463: 1
465: 1
Melee Crits
489: 1
490: 1
491: 2
492: 1
493: 1
+ 495: 5
496: 2
497: 1
498: 2
501: 2
^ 503: 2
504: 3
505: 2
506: 2
507: 3
508: 2
509: 4
510: 1
511: 1

Level 73 Peiste

Melee
371: 3
372: 2
374: 2
375: 1
376: 1
378: 1
380: 1
381: 1
382: 3
383: 2
386: 1
387: 4
388: 1
389: 2
390: 1
+ 391: 6
392: 1
393: 1
394: 2
395: 2
396: 2
397: 5
398: 2
399: 3
400: 2
401: 2
402: 2
403: 3
404: 3
406: 5
407: 3
408: 2
+ 410: 6
411: 3
412: 1
413: 2
414: 3
415: 2
416: 1
417: 3
418: 3
419: 4
^ 421: 3
422: 2
423: 2
424: 1
425: 3
426: 3
427: 2
428: 2
429: 2
430: 3
431: 3
433: 1
434: 4
435: 4
436: 2
438: 2
439: 3
440: 1
441: 2
442: 1
+ 443: 6
444: 1
445: 2
446: 3
447: 4
448: 2
449: 2
450: 3
451: 2
452: 3
453: 4
454: 5
455: 2
456: 4
457: 1
458: 2
459: 1
460: 1
461: 2
462: 2
463: 1
465: 2
468: 1
470: 1
474: 1
Melee Crits
489: 2
490: 1
491: 3
492: 2
+ 494: 5
495: 2
496: 2
497: 2
498: 2
^ 501: 2
502: 1
503: 3
+ 504: 5
505: 3
506: 1
507: 3
508: 2
510: 1
511: 1



Edited, Feb 1st 2013 7:06pm by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#372 Feb 01 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
No Pet Attack +
Seaboard Vulture
Level 83
Melee
287: 1
298: 1
300: 1
301: 1
302: 1
303: 1
305: 1
306: 3
307: 1
308: 3
309: 1
310: 2
311: 1
312: 2
313: 3
314: 5
315: 3
316: 3
317: 3
318: 1
319: 3
320: 1
321: 3
322: 2
323: 5
324: 3
325: 2
326: 2
327: 1
328: 3
329: 2
330: 3
331: 2
332: 5
333: 1
334: 5
335: 5
336: 4
338: 5
340: 3
341: 3
342: 2
344: 4
345: 3
346: 2
347: 2
^ 348: 4
349: 1
350: 4
351: 1
352: 3
353: 3
354: 2
355: 2
356: 2
357: 4
358: 4
359: 2
360: 2
361: 2
362: 3
363: 7
364: 4
366: 2
367: 4
+ 368: 8
369: 3
371: 3
373: 2
374: 1
375: 2
377: 1
378: 2
379: 2
380: 1
381: 1
382: 1
383: 5
384: 4
385: 3
386: 2
387: 1
389: 1
390: 2
391: 3
392: 2
393: 1
394: 1
395: 2
398: 1
400: 1
401: 2
Melee Crits
461: 1
464: 1
465: 1
469: 1
474: 1
475: 1
477: 1
481: 2
483: 2
484: 2
486: 1
489: 1
492: 1
493: 3
494: 1
^ 496: 3
497: 1
498: 1
500: 2
501: 1
502: 2
506: 1
508: 1
+ 509: 5
510: 3
513: 1
515: 1

Level 84
Melee
289: 1
294: 1
295: 3
297: 4
298: 3
299: 3
300: 2
301: 1
302: 4
303: 2
304: 3
305: 4
306: 1
307: 6
308: 2
309: 1
+ 310: 7
311: 1
312: 6
314: 3
315: 3
316: 5
317: 5
318: 3
319: 2
320: 3
321: 4
322: 4
323: 4
324: 4
325: 2
326: 4
327: 3
328: 2
329: 4
330: 1
331: 2
332: 1
333: 5
334: 3
335: 4
336: 1
337: 2
338: 3
339: 1
340: 1
341: 2
342: 1
343: 3
344: 3
^ 345: 2
346: 3
347: 5
348: 6
349: 1
350: 4
351: 3
352: 3
353: 2
354: 6
355: 4
356: 5
357: 2
358: 3
359: 3
360: 2
361: 4
+ 362: 7
363: 2
364: 3
365: 4
366: 4
+ 367: 7
368: 4
369: 3
370: 5
371: 4
372: 2
373: 3
374: 5
+ 375: 7
376: 4
377: 4
378: 1
379: 1
380: 1
381: 2
383: 3
384: 1
385: 3
386: 3
387: 2
Melee Crits
444: 1
452: 1
456: 1
457: 1
460: 1
461: 1
465: 1
468: 1
473: 1
474: 2
475: 1
477: 1
480: 2
481: 1
482: 1
483: 1
487: 1
^ 488: 1
489: 1
492: 1
+ 493: 3
494: 1
495: 1
496: 1
497: 2
498: 1
500: 1
502: 1
504: 1
506: 2
507: 1
509: 1
511: 1

Pet Attack + 62
Level 83

Melee
301: 1
302: 1
303: 2
305: 1
306: 2
308: 2
309: 2
310: 4
311: 4
312: 1
313: 6
314: 4
315: 2
316: 2
317: 3
318: 1
319: 5
320: 3
321: 4
322: 3
323: 5
324: 2
325: 5
327: 3
328: 1
330: 1
331: 2
333: 3
334: 3
335: 4
336: 2
337: 2
338: 3
339: 2
341: 3
342: 5
343: 3
344: 1
346: 4
347: 4
348: 4
349: 2
350: 1
351: 2
+^ 352: 7
353: 1
354: 4
355: 1
356: 3
357: 5
358: 4
359: 1
360: 2
361: 6
362: 4
363: 2
364: 3
365: 3
366: 5
367: 2
368: 1
370: 4
371: 3
372: 3
374: 5
375: 3
376: 5
377: 3
378: 4
379: 2
380: 2
381: 4
383: 4
384: 2
385: 1
386: 3
388: 4
390: 2
391: 3
392: 5
395: 1
396: 1
397: 1
399: 1
401: 1
402: 1
403: 2
Melee Crits
455: 1
457: 1
463: 2
465: 2
467: 1
468: 1
476: 1
482: 1
489: 1
492: 1
494: 1
496: 1
^ 497: 1
500: 2
502: 1
506: 1
508: 1
509: 1
510: 1
+ 513: 3
514: 1
515: 2


Level 84

Melee
296: 1
299: 1
300: 1
301: 1
302: 1
303: 1
305: 2
306: 3
307: 3
308: 2
309: 1
310: 1
311: 3
312: 1
313: 2
314: 4
317: 2
321: 1
322: 1
323: 3
324: 5
325: 1
326: 2
327: 3
328: 2
329: 3
330: 2
331: 1
332: 2
333: 2
334: 2
335: 1
336: 3
337: 5
338: 2
339: 2
340: 4
341: 1
^ 342: 1
343: 3
344: 2
345: 3
346: 1
347: 1
+ 349: 6
350: 1
351: 3
352: 1
354: 4
356: 1
357: 1
359: 1
360: 4
361: 1
362: 2
363: 2
364: 2
365: 1
366: 3
368: 1
369: 2
370: 1
371: 2
374: 3
375: 2
376: 2
377: 1
378: 3
379: 2
381: 3
382: 3
383: 2
384: 1
385: 2
388: 1
390: 1
391: 1
392: 1
394: 1
Melee Crits
460: 1
466: 1
468: 1
+ 471: 2
475: 1
476: 1
+ 477: 2
479: 1
^ 489: 1
491: 1
493: 1
495: 1
497: 1
501: 1
502: 1
503: 1
504: 1
506: 1
508: 1

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#373 Feb 01 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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As far as those strange numbers go, they are all on 1 fight.
number 126 if I manually select them from the custom mob filter for that file...

GorefangHobs
Melee
+ 498: 1
+ 503: 1
+^ 507: 1
+ 509: 1
+ 511: 1
Melee Crits
+^ 534: 1
Seems this fight only has strange numbers. I'm not sure exactly what happened. Raw data appears to look correct.
It looks like it really happened, but that doesn't really make sense.
I rejoined the parses into 1 again from the originals and the same effect happened that it doubled... even though those values are not found in the other parse...
occasionally the summary also shows min melee damage as 0 for pet and I have to hunt down the actual lowest value....



Edited, Feb 1st 2013 7:37pm by Xilk
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#374 Feb 02 2013 at 12:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,236 posts
Ok.

Peistes

Consideration: Low number of crits, so no guarantee of hitting true limits, so allowing for that.

Lvl 73-74, max crit of 511; 4.0 should be 487. Minimum recorded was 488 and 489 in the two parses. If 488 is min, max should be 512.
Lvl 75-76, max crit is 507; 4.0 should be 483. Matches observed.

Extract 8% crit bonus
73-74: If 4.0 crit was 487, this would be 451, which is not divisible by 4. If 4.0 is 488, this is 452. Probable 452.
75-76: With 4.0 of 483, this is 448. Divisible by 4.

Base damage:
73-74: 452/4 = 113
75-76: 448/4 = 112

Lvl 73 with no +att had the same max damage as lvl 74, so 73 is probably not at true max pDif. With +att, its max went higher. Similarly with the others... I don't see anything to indicate that the observed damages were not at capped attack, just varying due to relatively low sample size. Will just use the lower of the two mins, and the higher of the two maxes.

First, factor out the 1.05 spread:
 
Lvl  Max    /1.05 
73:  474    452 (note: == 4.0) 
74:  466    444 
75:  455    434 
76:  449    428 

Note that those are the lowest that the max pDif can be; it's possible for it to be higher.

Now look at the base pDif range
 
Lvl  Range        Diff      pDif Range 
73: 368 - 452      84       0.743 
74: 360 - 444      84       0.743 
75: 354 - 434      80       0.714 
76: 349 - 428      79       0.705 

Given that the max pDif value can potentially be higher than listed, we should tend towards the maximim pDif range values as being closest to correct. That points us towards 0.75 as the likeliest value for the full range.


That gives us the trivial look at things. Next, pulling up the details...

Lvl 73 -- The parse with +att pushed towards the top end of 4.0 * 1.05, which implies the max pDif possibly went slightly above 4.0 in order to get a fair numbers of samples in that range, but at the very least hit exactly 4.0. The min damage on that was 371, with other observed min damage values nearby that are sufficienctly close-packed that it seems unlikely for true min to be more than a point or two below it. 452 - 371 is an 81 point difference; much closer to the level 75-76 data.

The parse without +att also had a significant gap between its lowest value (368) and its second-lowest value (377), which disturbs me, as it feels out of place. However with the low number of samples, there's the risk of such gaps.

Lvl 74 -- The parse without any +att had a min-max difference of 79. Given that just about every single damage point was hit between the two extremes, the lack of any values between 360 (min observed in the +att parse) and 365 disturbs me. 79 puts it in the same range as the level 75-76 parses.

Lvl 75 -- Did not have any oddities at either extreme of either parse. Min/max on both parses was also almost the same.

Lvl 76 -- Parse with +att was a bit sparse on the upper end, where its top two values were 445 and 441. The parse without +att had several values between 443 and 449. Sparsity is somewhat acceptable due to the low number of samples.


If we put aside those values which seem problematic, we get:

Now look at the base pDif range
 
Lvl  Range        Diff      pDif Range 
73: 371 - 452      81       0.717 
74: 365 - 444      84       0.699 
75: 354 - 434      80       0.714 
76: 349 - 428      79       0.705 


Which puts it in line with a 0.72 max range.


Now the question is, are those problematic data points 'real'? If they are, then that implies a full pDif range of 0.75, though also giving us an uncomfortable gap between the 73-74 data and the 75-76 data (though it could be explained by low sample sizes). If they are not then we have a nice pDif range that is consistent across levels, but we need to find out how those anomolous values could come about.



Vultures

Lvl 83
Base damage: 114
Min outlier: 287. Otherwise, mins of 298 and 301.
Max 403 => 384
Diff: 86, or 97 with outlier
Range: 0.754, or 0.851 with outlier

Lvl 84
Base damage: 113
Min outlier: 289. Otherwise, mins of 294 and 296.
Max 394 => 376
Diff: 82, or 87 with outlier
Range: 0.726, or 0.770 with outlier

Both of these lend themselves towards a pDif range of 0.75, though they also have outlier issues.




Expected cRatio values, if we assume +0.06 per level:

Peiste
73: 3.56
74: 3.50
75: 3.44
76: 3.38
Vulture
83: 2.96
84: 2.90

Expected min pDif and min damage values for -0.36 and -0.375 offsets:
 
Peiste     Min -0.36   Min Dmg   Min -0.375   Min Dmg   Obs.Min  Outlier 
73:             3.20       361        3.185       359       371      368 
74:             3.14       354        3.125       353       365 
75:             3.08       344        3.065       343       354 
76:             3.02       338        3.005       336       349 
Vulture 
83:             2.60       296        2.585       294       298      287 
84:             2.54       287        2.525       285       294      289 


And these don't match up. Predicted for the peistes is significantly lower than observed (~10 points), though predicted for vultures is not too far off.

On the other hand, we can show that the 289 outlier on lvl 84 vultures is well within expected range. With the difference in level correction plus the difference in base damage, a 9 point difference in the min between the 83 and 84 vultures should be expected. The outlier 289 is 9 points lower than the non-outlier 298 from the lvl 83 vultures. The 287 outlier on level 83 vultures is still untenable, though.


We can use the observed mins, and an assumed pDif offset (either -0.36 or -0.375) to back-calculate an estimated level correction for each of these.

 
Peiste     Obs.Min  Outlier     pDif   Lvl Corr. Raw    Lvl Corr. 0.36   Lvl Corr. 0.375 
73:            371            3.2832           0.049            0.0632            0.0638 
73:                     368   3.2566           0.048            0.0623            0.0628 
74:            365            3.2301           0.049            0.0636            0.0642 
75:            354            3.1607           0.048            0.0634            0.0640 
76:            349            3.1161           0.049            0.0642            0.0648 
Vulture 
83:            298            2.6140           0.038            0.0609            0.0618 
83:                     287   2.5175           0.032            0.0548            0.0558 
84:            289            2.5575           0.037            0.0612            0.0622 


And here we come across something quite peculiar. When doing the calculations I forgot to add in the assumed pDif offset before dividing by the level correction on one of the numbers, and ended up with something very close to our normal 0.05, remaining stable across those levels. That's the Lvl Corr. Raw column. However that only worked for the Peistes.

I would be most curious to see if that change occurred at level 79 mobs (-20 levels of correction). That could have some interesting implications.

On the other hand, most of the other numbers have problems. Adding the assumed pDif offset yields a level correction value that's too high, for the peistes, and none of the numbers for vultures returned a decent level correction value -- the raw value is too low for anything, and the +pDif value is higher than it should be.

The vultures could get a 0.05 level correction if the pDif offset was -0.20 for the min, but that's heavily skewed towards the positive side, given the full pDif range.

I have a couple ideas about what could be going on, but I'm going to need more data. There's a couple strange possibilities, but I need another data axis to triangulate from.

TEST: More data sets on any/all of the same mobs, but level capped at level 90 instead of 99, while keeping capped attack. Take a rdm along for Dia III or something, if you need to.

TEST extra: More data on the peistes just to help fill out the edges.

#375 Feb 02 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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I did some more Avatar tests here: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/114636-Monster-Avatar-Pet-damage?p=5584624&viewfull=1#post5584624

Do you guys see the same uncapped pDIF with jug pet TP moves against low level mobs?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2013 10:21am by Byrthnoth
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#376 Feb 02 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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Byrthnoth wrote:
I did some more Avatar tests here: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/114636-Monster-Avatar-Pet-damage?p=5584624&viewfull=1#post5584624

Do you guys see the same uncapped pDIF with jug pet TP moves against low level mobs?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2013 10:21am by Byrthnoth


aside from fantod, which just makes 4x damage, I saw some of the ready moves do as much as ~1800 iirc.
It was more common to have them ~1200

Some don't do more damage than melee hits.
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