Scroll Supply {Too Weak}Follow

This is nothing new, and yet every time an update comes and things are hard to obtain for a couple weeks, people flip out like it's the end of the world! It's only been two days since the update and you're mad you don't have the new spells?

Nope :

When theres 346 people on (on 95 BLM) & 1 scroll has been sold I would say supply & demand is kinda skewed. Plus, in the past, you could always farm the hard scrolls on another, higher lvl job.

This isnt a macro/specialized rare gear item used occasionally... on one of many jobs. Its a major component & natural progression of an original job. Kinda like Raise III (which can be easily solo'd)

Not really mad, just kinda venting & seeing if others feel supply is a little weak. As I'm currently doing Ice Staff trial, was really hoping it wouldnt be like this.

Its not even about how much it sells for, when theres none for sale lol. At the least they could be questable like early important scrolls (warp/teles/aspir etc) Maybe have quest pre-req. be having BLM leveled (like Black Belt requiring Brown Belt quest)

Kinda funny, in the olde days, you'd be considered gimp for not having spells as you ding into them.

I guess in the age of Aby burn, having hundreds of people not up to date on spells is ok.

QFT

Actually, it kinda is. I don't remember newly released magic ever being this widely unavailable.

It's not just one or two new spells either; it's pretty much EVERY new spell they released this patch.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 11:26pm by Fynlar

Yeah, even back in the day when Raise III was a coveted rare drop from Kirin, you could still always pay a million bucks on the AH to get it from one of the HNMs that used Kirin drops to fund relics and whatnot.

Maybe in a few weeks the profiteers will start sharing the goods, but with so many people after them, they're going to be snatched up quickly even at outrageous prices.

I know it is frustrating, but at the same time it would be a bit of an anti-climax if some of the most powerful spells that are ever going to be put into the game are sold from some random NPC like Darts. Thunder V, Holy II, Utsusemi: Ni, Sleepga II, Comet, Raise III... they are supposed to be relic-like spells because they are so powerful and job-defining.

I don't think this is that different from other FFs either, in practically every one you need to put in a considerable amount of effort to get the top tier spells/summons, rather than just learning them through the normal line of progression.

I'm sure that in a month's time the prices will be much more reasonable though and this will all be forgotten. I'm sure as the level cap rises yet again this new content will even further become more commonplace and the spells will be infinitely easier to obtain.

Wonder how melee would feel if to learn a new JA or WS they had to pray to the Random Number Generator gods in events they couldn't solo.

I could've seen Comet being like this, maybe even Temper and Holy II, but not every single spell that came with this update. People will eventually run out of crests, get frustrated with WoE and its randomness (Done 15+ clears now and all I got was Valor Minuet V, yay old scrolls?), and basically be left unable to play jobs to their fullest in VW if lacking the new procs.

I would've been okay with Blizzaja coming from the new mini-turtles, or the RDM stuff on some new mob in Sky. SE could've done a better job in spreading the love without just plopping things on NPCs, but even then, it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Doubly since this isn't 99, where we'll be staying for a long time, if not forever.

Yup, can totally relate & I'm sorry for your luck.

After attaining many things that take a lonnngggg time & some luck (but pretty much guaranteed if you keep doing event) like Full Homam, Askar,Goliard,Shadow gear....Relic +1 etc, kinda dont like new system.

Says who?

Tell me, what is it you're not able to do until you get Comet and Blizzaja? Why is it so important for you to have those spells immediately after they're available?

People in this game have gotten used to having everything, and now they are butt-hurt any time something new comes out and they don't have it immediately. Get over yourself. The beauty of this game is that not every player is the same. Items are rare enough that it forces you to focus on what you really want, and to cooperate with other players to get things faster.

If you want a game where every player has everything and is exactly identical, there are plenty of MMOs out there like that. I for one am glad that FFXI is not like that.

I would have preferred straight up time consuming quests with multiple JP midnight delays to having them drop from events. Since I'm not able to play but a few hours a week these days, I'm just not going to get them for a long long time.

At least with a quest, like Sleepga II has, I'd get a cute storyline to go with it. Adventure! Especially something as epic as Comet should have come from a quest. Maybe involving Shantotto torturing you a bit. Maybe involving a difficult six man BC. But at least with a quest, you have a guaranteed outcome.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 4:28pm by catwho

Getting something that no one had, or almost impossible to get made ffxi great back in the day. How many blm's did you know that had full af2 back when the level cap was 75? I know plenty of people that spent 2 years on their gear. Getting these spells are way easier than most things were back then. When my af2 body dropped, it was the first i had ever seen, and there were 5 other blm's lotting against me(this was after a many months). If you absolutly need this spell, earn it.

While I definitely agree with the point of the sudden change in scroll access is crap I feel this analogy could use a little work. You still have your weaker weapons.(Aka Blizzard V Fireja) That work until you get the best.

Comet is currently going for about ~ 2.75 mil on Bismarck. Thunder V is a million even, as is Blizzaja.

Thanks, SE.

Been contemplating similar. A mix of regression to older ways and lacking content hasn't left me particularly motivated. Sure, there are things I could still be doing, but since I don't dual-box, I tend to be more at the mercy of others online and my own schedule and general RL is random enough that planning things can be rough. One can only grind out so many weapon trials solo as something productive that can be done whenever before a line is drawn.

Oh, I'm sure it's going to come down in price over time. The sharpest drop comes early, and I think we've already seen that sharp drop. But after that, it's going to take a long, long time for these prices to come down. And I'll tell you why I'm convinced that's the case.

Cruor armor came down in price much faster because people could farm cruor while doing other activities. The market didn't rely on players going into Abyssea with the goal of farming cruor, and farming cruor alone. Players were accumulating cruor while leveling, fighting NMs, and doing quests.

Another example of this is Stone V through Blizz V and Stoneja through Firaja. Even if these scrolls were never sold by an NPC, the AH would have been supplied with these scrolls just from players doing various activities in Abyssea. Whether you are in Abyssea getting exp or farming NMs, you are likely to see gold chests with these scrolls in them. You don't have to go into Abyssea with the sole purpose of farming gold chests. You come across them while doing other activities.

I'm not convinced that the same thing will happen with these new scrolls since they come from HKCNMs, WoE and Voidwatch. No one does HKCNMs unless the express purpose is to get those drops. Once people get the scrolls that they want, the popularity of WoE and Voidwatch is going to die down once again. As the supply of these scrolls increases, and the prices come down, the motivation for players to go out and do these activities to farm scrolls will also decrease.

Utsusemi: Ni is a good example of this.

As long as these can't be reliably soloed, or even up to trioed, consistently and without grueling difficulty, the prices aren't likely to drop much more. Part of why people are running WoE now is for themselves. The scrolls that do hit the AH are either duplicates or from the few people who might never touch a given job and chance upon one of their scrolls. Maybe some of the early ones were people with dollar signs in their eyes, but 10m Comet scrolls aren't happening now and those looking for gil are probably realizing more consistent methods lie elsewhere.

WoE is going to dry up eventually, and the crappy coin rates from chests for people maybe working on weapons isn't helping there, either. MMOs just can't risk being grueling grinds these days, whether some favor that or not.

-- Thank You.

I appreciate the support, I have a hard time understanding contrary views on this one, as it is a main mage (BLM in my case) only concern. Unlike Utsusemi:Ni or even /Refresh which basically had their demand skyrocket because every melee needed Ni & all mages needed /refresh. (ironically all you had to do to get your own, or farm, was level BLM to 40 for U/O)( & go get Stonega II on higher job lol.)

There are other constraints on market just due to HKC supply, most levelling being much faster & with larger group, less seals are obtained by each individual. (& the 3 > 1 trade ratio on seals narrows it also)

LOL, yea to me some of the Magian Trials are "Annoying" due to mobs chosen for jobs (like un-drainable mobs for DRK etc......) but at least the result is guaranteed.

Hopefully SE will see the logic in this & loosen up supply a bit, I would be embarassed as a game designer if my update included something like this (central skill or natural progression of main job)
that could remain un-attainable by most for a LONG time.

I would almost go so far as to suggest two types of scrolls, one Rare that could be highly profitable, & another Rare/Ex that could only be used & NOT sold. (similar to what was done with KC-Octave PCC-PCA etc.)

Edited, Sep 29th 2011 4:50am by Terrifyingspeed

All scrolls need to be NPC purchasable or dropped from normal, found in the world mobs. Period.

I could live with Comet being HKCNM/WoE/Void Watch. Perhaps even Breakga. But the precedent was set for Tier Vs and -ja spells being sold by an NPC. So at the very least, Thunder V and Blizzaja (and in the future, Thundaja) should be sold from NPCs.

Perhaps he has Ni confused with Ichi?

No, Utsusemi:Ni is a direct comparison. It doesn't get any more direct, in fact it's an even more extreme example of what's happening right now.

Just like the new spells, it's a spell which you cannot buy from an NPC or obtain from any mob on the world map. The only way to get it is from BCNM and a really obscure add-on quest. New spells, only way to obtain is from HKCNM/WoE/VW. Both scrolls are easy to obtain, but either require seals of some kind to do battles, or repeats of certain events (add-on quests for Ni, WoE/VW for new spells).

What's worse, Ni is much more essential than any of the new spells. A NIN40 is considered gimp if he doesn't have Ni, and will probably have a hard time getting an invite. Comet and Blizzaja are not required spells, though. You can get on just fine without them. They're luxury spells, not essential like Ni. If Ni can be as hard to obtain as it is, then these scrolls should be hard as well.

What's wrong with having a few rare spells that not every single BLM under the sun has?

I would have agreed with this line of thinking back before Abyssea. However, since the addition of Abyssea and now with the buff to GoV exp, many players have multiple jobs to the level cap. It wasn't uncommon before for that to be the case. But it's even more common now. And due to the nature of yellow procs, BLM is one of the more popular choices to level.

There are probably still fewer people with BLM leveled than people with melee jobs who sub NIN. But the number of people who have BLM leveled are much higher now. Before Abyssea, the only real obstacle keeping people from leveling BLM was that they had to solo most of their exp. That's no longer an issue.

Also, Ni for /NIN has been an incredibly powerful tool for a very, very long time. This isn't anything new. Players have always "needed" scrolls of Utsusemi: Ni. And yet, here we are 7/8 years later, and it still goes for 1 million gil or more on the AH. I have a feeling that Thunder 5, Blizzaja and Comet will very likely follow this pattern as well.

Agreed, & I addressed that..... Demand raises price.





So, an essential to almost all players/jobs item, is the same as a non-subbable, one job item ?

Cant have it both ways, comparing an item you describe as "essential" to an item you describe as "luxury" is faulty logic at best.

I admit I'm arguing from self interest, & stated so... using Ni but not responding to the Alex/Odin comparison (& not mentioning Thunder V) is about what I'd expect from a non-BLM who just recently sold a ThunderV.

I have no problem with how the economy works in game, in that HQ or Hi-power items are desireable & will be worked for, & paid for by those who want them.. or they will go without.

I would prefer a less adversarial relationship when it comes to Exclusively one job items.

According to recent (& past) Vanadiel census, almost EVERYONE has at least /NIN, while substantially less have BLM/???



Nothing, from the perspective of a non-BLM... however a BLM who takes pride in their job,feels differently.

Getting excited about updates that add versatility/utility to one of my main jobs..... then seeing that an extra 7-10 million will have to be spent to achieve them is disheartening.

Another reason I wish it were different, is that I play on XBOX & we are experiencing Lag-out, Disconnection issues in some of the new events (similar to beseiged). This is a problem in any event where you are rewarded at the end, with either an individual treasure pool or cumulative/per-event rewards. Has been this way for years in Beseiged/Campaign/Dyna (but at least in Dynamis you may have gotten your drop)

I'm frustrated at this, not because I have to work for my scrolls, but because the drop rate is soooo very low, that I have to devote all of my time and/or seals to obtain them.

I blew threw all of my Beastman Seals, plus a few LS mates, to get my Utsusemi scroll. I don't have thousands of them lying around because I have only been playing for a little over a year.

I have now blown threw all of the Kindred Seals trying to get Raise 3. Next step is to start doing the ENMs since you don't need seals, but if I'm reading it correctly, I can only do these once every conquest update.

Next is blowing threw all of my High Kindred Crests trying to get my BLM scrolls. VW is not an option in my social LS and I have just started doing WoE. But I have already done as many as I can in my limited play time, scoring 9k+ xp, and walking out with only random ores. The 1k entry fee isn't so much, but if I have to go repeatedly for the next 6 months, I can see my gil supply running out too.

There comes a point where you have exhausted all of your will power to get something (not to mention the required items to go to said battles) and you just have to say enough. Working for something is not bad, but doing something repeatedly for nothing gets a little ridiculous. Yes, these scrolls are luxury items and not necessary, but I didn't put my efforts into building a Yama's Staff +2 (soon to be +3) for nothing. I pride myself in my completed spell book and would like to continue on that path.

(waits for all of the "I spent 4 years in HNM LS to never get XX item." posts)

I didn't say it was the same, I said it was a more extreme example of the same exact thing. And it is. It's a scroll only available as a rare drop from seal battles & a couple random side-quests.


The fact that it's essential while the new spells are luxury just makes the point all the more potent. You're complaining about spells you do not need even in the most remote sense to do your job.


And this is your argument that it should be easier to obtain BLM spells? You might want to think that through a little better.


You say that like I'm not in the same boat. Holy 2, Curaga V, Boost-STR, are all very very expensive. Not as much as all the new black magic added together, but it's easily 3 mil. I simply haven't bought them yet, even though I really want Boost-STR for STR+19 to my whole party. I'm waiting for prices to come down a bit. That's how you play the game. FFXI doesn't owe you anything "easy".