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The new health care proposal...Follow

#27 Sep 17 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Says the man who doesn't mind taxing middle class americans out of existence. Tell me what's the unemployeement rate again? Obviously Obama doesn't care about americans because he thinks taxing them to support state funded healthcare is more important than creating an economic environment friendly to small businesses, who employee more people than any other segment of society.

You must enjoy starving children. When their daddy can't get a job because small businesses are no longer hiring because of new govn healthcare regulations that's what you get; starving children who the tax payers have to pay to feed.

Get er done Dems.


Want to know how many children will starve to death because of the Healthcare plan? Zero billion. Also Zero.
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#28 Sep 17 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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You have no idea what you're talking about. A true direct democracy is nothing more than mob rule.


Not if you build the system correctly.
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#29 Sep 17 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Baucus is crafting solutions with people who have a political disincentive to find them. Thus, this result is not at all surprising.

538.com wrote:
If the Democrats only had 58 senators, or 59, then there would be more downside to Republicans: the Dems' 2010 platform would instantly become -- Let's elect a few more Democrats to stop these Republican obstructionists! That's not a bad message. But since the Democrats do have 60, it will be hard for them to creditably blame Republicans for health care's failure.

Nate's an exceptionally gifted analyst in some spheres but he really needs to buy a newspaper with an obituary section.
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#30 Sep 17 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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He spent his money on the Necronomicon.
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#31 Sep 17 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Varrus, you've got it all wrong. All the liberals and all the Dems also think that the Baucus plan is a total piece of ****. We also dislike the "fine" on people that "won't" get health insurance.

The plan, as it is presented by the Senate Finance Committee, does not achieve universal coverage and does nothing but put more money into the insurance company's pockets.

Even the other Dems on the committee think its terrible and are pretty ****** at Baucus right now.
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#32 Sep 17 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,

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Until the Republicans give a sh*t about Americans, it doesn't really matter.


Says the man who doesn't mind taxing middle class americans out of existence. Tell me what's the unemployeement rate again? Obviously Obama doesn't care about americans because he thinks taxing them to support state funded healthcare is more important than creating an economic environment friendly to small businesses, who employee more people than any other segment of society.

You must enjoy starving children. When their daddy can't get a job because small businesses are no longer hiring because of new govn healthcare regulations that's what you get; starving children who the tax payers have to pay to feed.

Get er done Dems.


I have no idea what any of this means.
#33 Sep 17 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:


I have no idea what any of this means.


Well there's no hope for us then...I mean, you're neighbors down in hick-ville...

Nexa
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#34 Sep 17 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Until the Republicans give a sh*t about Americans, it doesn't really matter.


Says the man who doesn't mind taxing middle class americans out of existence. Tell me what's the unemployeement rate again? Obviously Obama doesn't care about americans because he thinks taxing them to support state funded healthcare is more important than creating an economic environment friendly to small businesses, who employee more people than any other segment of society.

You must enjoy starving children. When their daddy can't get a job because small businesses are no longer hiring because of new govn healthcare regulations that's what you get; starving children who the tax payers have to pay to feed.

Get er done Dems.


I have no idea what any of this means.

You probably went to public school. Nobody can ever learn anythings in those socialist indoctrination prisons.
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#35 Sep 17 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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I have no problem making health insurance mandatory, really. It would help keep the costs down in the long run. But we need to have a stellar system in place that helps people unable to get insurance to get it, not punish them because it's too difficult to put a public option in place.
#36 Sep 17 2009 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Wint wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my head around how it would be beneficial to fine people who can't get insurance.

Without supporting it or whatever, the thought is to make insurance mandatory in the same manner auto insurance is mandatory.


A conservative relative of mine posted on facebook the other day "I've paid $14,000 in car insurance in the past decade and never had to use it. Now the government wants to force me to pay for medical insurance? SAY NO TO SOCIALISM!"

I was so shocked by the idiocy in the comments I couldn't even respond...
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#37 Sep 17 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
A conservative relative of mine posted on facebook the other day "I've paid $14,000 in car insurance in the past decade and never had to use it. Now the government wants to force me to pay for medical insurance? SAY NO TO SOCIALISM!"

He should take control of his own life and wrap his car around an oak tree so he gets his money's worth.
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#38 Sep 17 2009 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
A conservative relative of mine posted on facebook the other day "I've paid $14,000 in car insurance in the past decade and never had to use it. Now the government wants to force me to pay for medical insurance? SAY NO TO SOCIALISM!"

He should take control of his own life and wrap his car around an oak tree so he gets his money's worth.

I would of expected something more environmentally friendly from a bleeding heart socialist liberal
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#39 Sep 17 2009 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bardalicious wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
A conservative relative of mine posted on facebook the other day "I've paid $14,000 in car insurance in the past decade and never had to use it. Now the government wants to force me to pay for medical insurance? SAY NO TO SOCIALISM!"

He should take control of his own life and wrap his car around an oak tree so he gets his money's worth.

I would of expected something more environmentally friendly from a bleeding heart socialist liberal


What's more environmentally friendly than getting one more car off the road while also hugging a tree?

Nexa
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#40 Sep 17 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Two
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#41 Sep 17 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I do find it amusing that 63% of Americans have no idea what a "Public Option" is.
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#42 Sep 17 2009 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I have no problem making health insurance mandatory, really. It would help keep the costs down in the long run. But we need to have a stellar system in place that helps people unable to get insurance to get it, not punish them because it's too difficult to put a public option in place.
Unfortunately, those who can't get insurance are most likely to be gouged or only be eligible for insurance options that some medical providers won't accept.
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#43 Sep 17 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I have no problem making health insurance mandatory, really. It would help keep the costs down in the long run. But we need to have a stellar system in place that helps people unable to get insurance to get it, not punish them because it's too difficult to put a public option in place.
Unfortunately, those who can't get insurance are most likely to be gouged or only be eligible for insurance options that some medical providers won't accept.


Well, as I said before, I thought that's what the watered down "public option" in the current bill (the one Obama mentioned in his speech) was for.

I just don't get why anyone would be against everyone in the country being able to get affordable healthcare...
#44 Sep 17 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wanna solve all your healthcare issues? Move the US/Canadian border south and ship those who don't want it to Texas and Florida.
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#45 Sep 17 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Two


Well played sir, well played.

Nexa
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#46 Sep 17 2009 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Wanna solve all your healthcare issues? Move the US/Canadian border south and ship those who don't want it to Texas and Florida.
You're taking Alabama, but not Texas?
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#47 Sep 17 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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For those keeping score from home, a list of Democratic concessions made in the Baucus bill.
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#48 Sep 17 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Punishing someone for not doing good, of course, is completely counter-intuitive to the ideal of public aid in the first place. If not stricken (though I'm sure such provisions will be stricken or highly qualified) something like that would just be ignored by the really poor people anyway.


You're engaging in delusion. Can we please stop with the idea that we should just pass the legislation and trust that these things will all be fixed after the fact?

President Obama has repeatedly made this exact statement about health care. His entire concept of the reform requires that everyone must be included, which requires penalties for those who refuse to pay for insurance. Did you fail to read his speech on health care he gave just a week ago?

Obama wrote:
And that's why under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance -- just as most states require you to carry auto insurance. (Applause.)




What did you think "required to carry" would entail? I do find it humorous however, that requirements like "Illegal immigrants can't qualify" are left dangling with no details or enforcement methodology, but this requirement apparently must be defined with penalties assessed and whatnot.

It shows you pretty clearly which things are important to the Dems and which things aren't.

Edited, Sep 17th 2009 12:07pm by gbaji
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#49 Sep 17 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I do find it humorous however, that requirements like "Illegal immigrants can't qualify" are left dangling with no details or enforcement methodology, but this requirement apparently must be defined with penalties assessed and whatnot.

I find it humorous that you never looked at the Senate Finance bill. So now we're all happy.
Quote:
Eligibility Verification. In order to prevent illegal immigrants from accessing the state exchanges obtaining federal health care tax credits, the Chairman‘s Mark requires verification of the following personal data. Name, social security number, and date of birth will be verified with Social Security Administration (SSA) data. For individuals claiming to be U.S. citizens, if the claim of citizenship is consistent with SSA data then the claim will be considered substantiated.


Keep in mind that this isn't the final legalese version of the bill that would be produced which would detail it further but it's very clear about requiring a valid and verified SSN.
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#50 Sep 17 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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You're engaging in delusion.


I'm engaging in pessimism, actually. It's the polar opposite of delusion.

If I wanted to be delusional I'd say that I'm sure that provisions against illegal immigrants will be entirely removed from whatever bill might eventually come to a head, and that instead of a public option for insurance, there would be a public and government mandate for insurance, that is a mandate to the insurer to provide, rather than a mandate to the person to obtain, with no private option whatsoever in existence.
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#51 Sep 17 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Ensign Pensive, set course for delusion 215, warp 8...

Engage!
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