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The new health care proposal...Follow

#52 Sep 17 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
For those keeping score from home, a list of Democratic concessions made in the Baucus bill.


I haven't looked at the Baucus bill personally, but my understanding is that the proposed co-op system is basically the same public option they were trying to push before with a minor paint job. A section quoted on that link even refers to "The Exchange", which was a term Obama used to refer to his proposed Public Option plan about a month or so ago.

I'm going to also go out on a limb and guess that the claims that the whole thing will be deficit neutral is pretty much wishful thinking as well...
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#53 Sep 17 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

I haven't looked at the ___________ personally, but my understanding is that the <insert Republican Talking Point Here>.

I'm going to also go out on a limb and guess that <Insert whatever unjustified and unexamined piece of non-evidence I like here>.


There, I made ya a template! You're welcome!

Nexa
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#54 Sep 17 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Nexa wrote:
gbaji wrote:

I haven't looked at the ___________ personally, but my understanding is that the <insert Republican Talking Point Here>.

I'm going to also go out on a limb and guess that <Insert whatever unjustified and unexamined piece of non-evidence I like here>.


There, I made ya a template! You're welcome!

Nexa


Nice preamble. He'll still have to type the bulk himself, though.
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#55 Sep 17 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I haven't looked at the Baucus bill personally

That's apparent.
Quote:
my understanding is that the proposed co-op system is basically the same public option they were trying to push before with a minor paint job.

Your understanding is wrong. Foremost, the co-op system would be private insurers versus a government owned/run public plan. Isn't the fear of scary government run programs supposed to be the boogeyman in the public option debate?
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#56 Sep 17 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Edited, Sep 17th 2009 4:03pm by Timelordwho
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#57 Sep 17 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Nice preamble. He'll still have to type the bulk himself, though.


Nope, he just needs to copypasta the rest from the web.
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#58 Sep 17 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Bill O'Reilly accidentally (or maybe not) said he supports the public option on The O'Reilly Factor today.

Bill O'Reilly wrote:
O’REILLY: But you know, I want that, Ms. Owcharenko. I want that. I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don’t like their health insurance, if it’s too expensive, they can’t afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.


He's an ***, but at least he can tell the difference between "option" and "socialism."
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#59 Sep 17 2009 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Nexa wrote:
gbaji wrote:

I haven't looked at the ___________ personally, but my understanding is that the <insert Republican Talking Point Here>.

I'm going to also go out on a limb and guess that <Insert whatever unjustified and unexamined piece of non-evidence I like here>.


There, I made ya a template! You're welcome!

Nexa


OMG tears Smiley: laugh Co workers are looking at me funny well funnier
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#60 Sep 17 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of, I just got a form letter response from my Congresscritter regarding a letter I sent her on health care reform several weeks ago. I'll print it out for my scrapbook!
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#61 Sep 17 2009 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
my understanding is that the proposed co-op system is basically the same public option they were trying to push before with a minor paint job.

Your understanding is wrong. Foremost, the co-op system would be private insurers versus a government owned/run public plan. Isn't the fear of scary government run programs supposed to be the boogeyman in the public option debate?


If the private insurers end up being anything like Acorn or Planned Parenthood, then yeah, I think the same argument against a Public Option remains in place.


The boogieman is that the government will use unfair pricing to effectively force truly private insurers out of the business, leaving just the government run system left standing. If the co-ops are all licensed non-profit organizations which receive special deals and access to government subsidies and then compete against for-profit insurers in an environment with price controls in place to ensure that a for-profit company can't remain afloat, it's no different at all (and in some ways worse).

The specifics surrounding these proposed co-ops are still far too vague to make a specific call about them, but I don't think is unreasonable to oppose such things until the details are much more clear. As I've said in past thread, Conservatives have already been burned with the "wait until everything's written. Trust us. The final version will address your concerns..." scam a couple times already this year.

Obama and the Dems have pretty much burned up any trust capital they had with the Republicans, Conservatives, and a whole lot of Independents as well. At this point, no one's listening to what they're promising. We want to see what's actually written down on paper. That game has been played too many times.
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#62 Sep 17 2009 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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There is NOTHING wrong with Planned Parenthood or Acorn, you ************.
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#63 Sep 17 2009 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Bill O'Reilly accidentally (or maybe not) said he supports the public option on The O'Reilly Factor today.

Bill O'Reilly wrote:
O’REILLY: But you know, I want that, Ms. Owcharenko. I want that. I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don’t like their health insurance, if it’s too expensive, they can’t afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.


He's an ***, but at least he can tell the difference between "option" and "socialism."


First off, O'Reilly is more of a populist than a Conservative, but I suppose he just gets lumped in with the whole set of "people who don't support the liberal agenda right down the line", so whatever.

I can't find a full transcript or video of the interview, but O'Reilly tends to play devil's advocate on his show, taking the opposition side to whatever the person he's interviewing is saying. I wouldn't read much into that at all. Not without seeing what the whole video looked like.
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#64 Sep 17 2009 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
There is NOTHING wrong with Planned Parenthood or Acorn, you mother@#%^er.


Nothing at all? So those 5 videos showing Acorn employees willing to help someone defraud the government in order to set up a child prostitution ring is "nothing"? Planned Parenthood advising minors to lie to a judge to claim that they're older than they are so they can get an abortion without parental permission in violation of the law is "nothing"?

Really? I'm curious about this new definition of nothing you have invented for yourself.
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#65 Sep 17 2009 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If the private insurers end up being anything like Acorn or Planned Parenthood, then yeah, I think the same argument against a Public Option remains in place.

Or... OMG... What if they begin breeding dinosaurs on some island off the South American coast!?!

Because that's about as likely to happen.

Quote:
The specifics surrounding these proposed co-ops are still far too vague to make a specific call about them

Look, you've already shown you don't know what you're talking about in this thread. you don't really need to start covering for it now.
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#66 Sep 17 2009 at 5:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Really? I'm curious about this new definition of nothing you have invented for yourself.


You know they've caught George Ortloff, Howard Scott Heldreth, Edison Misla Aldarondo and Philip Giordano, among many others in the same organization, commit thing sexual crimes against children.

That organization?

The GOP. Clearly it is promoting child rape and everyone affiliated should be considered suspicious.

Smiley: oyvey
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#67 Sep 17 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Quote:

Really? I'm curious about this new definition of nothing you have invented for yourself.


You know they've caught George Ortloff, Howard Scott Heldreth, Edison Misla Aldarondo and Philip Giordano, among many others in the same organization, commit thing sexual crimes against children.


Who? Did you really just include a transient who participated in some rallies as a member of the GOP?


Is the sole purpose of the GOP to protect the sexual security of children? Does the GOP receive federal funds to do this? I somehow missed that in the definition of "political party". There's a difference between members of an organization committing crimes unrelated to their position within said organization, and members committing crimes directly connected to what they do. A politician is no more or less expected to not violate our *** laws than any other citizen.


The members of Acorn are supposed to be helping needy people obtain financial aid for which they qualify. Helping people to lie about their conditions in order to qualify for aid they aren't supposed to receive is in direct violation of what they're supposed to be doing. They are entrusted to do a job and have failed in that trust. The degree of violation is indicative of a larger problem with the whole of the institution. An organization given this trust should be taking steps to make sure that trust isn't abused. It's pretty clear that they have failed to do so. Miserably.
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#68 Sep 17 2009 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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So a few incidents out of thousands negatively and the entire organization is a miserable failure? Apparently, you don't judge the GOP on the same moral high ground that you do Acorn.

Oh speaking of the GOP, that organization promoting fraud and illicit and illegal ***, often with minors and usually ***:

http://www.badmouth.net/top-five-republican-***-***-scandals/
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Turin wrote:
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#69 Sep 17 2009 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, what we're speculating is that O'Reilly realized that Beck is getting too crazy for mainstream GOPers, and he's trying to move toward the center a little more so he can capitalize on the people who have stopped watching Beck for that reason.

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#70 Sep 17 2009 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like how quickly O'Reilly gets thrown into the RINO bin Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
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#71 Sep 17 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Varrus wrote:
The Democrats know they are primed to loose big in the next congressional elections if the economy doesn't improve.


Read the news: recessions "over", stocks are up, & consumer spending just made the biggest jump in years. I'd like to thank massive government spending, in the form of Stimulus Packages, for this. This of course, requires I thank W & Obama, respectively, & I don't even feel dirty for doing so.

Gbaji wrote:
The boogieman is that the government will use unfair pricing to effectively force truly private insurers out of the business, leaving just the government run system left standing.


Who the fuck cares about insurance companies? They, by their very definition, make money off of the people who aren't sick & try everything in their power to decline coverage for the sick. I have no problem if they're taken down a peg.
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#72 Sep 17 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Federal Employees health plan runs as a co-op. In the state of Illinois, these are some of the companies I would choose from:

Humana
Blue Cross
Ætna
Unicare
United Health Care

I know it's a shame that the truely private insurers would be pushed out of business by a bunch of scam artist Acorn wannabes like Blue Cross and Humana but that's just the liberal agenda workin' for ya.
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#73 Sep 18 2009 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
Looks like we got our 60 seat majority back!

Article wrote:
(Mass.)House lawmakers approved legislation last night that gives Governor Deval Patrick the power to appoint a temporary successor to the late Edward M. Kennedy in the US Senate, putting Massachusetts on track to have a new senator in place by next week.


Fuck the Repblicans, we'll pass healthcare reform without em'.

How's it feel to have Kennedy kick you in the balls from his grave?
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#74 Sep 18 2009 at 1:26 AM Rating: Decent
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No use gloating before something actually happens. Destroying the impotence of numbers doesn't destroy the impotence of choice.
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#75 Sep 18 2009 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Looks like we got our 60 seat majority back!

Article wrote:
(Mass.)House lawmakers approved legislation last night that gives Governor Deval Patrick the power to appoint a temporary successor to the late Edward M. Kennedy in the US Senate, putting Massachusetts on track to have a new senator in place by next week.


Fuck the Repblicans, we'll pass healthcare reform without em'.

How's it feel to have Kennedy kick you in the balls from his grave?


That assumes that they do something with their majority. Otherwise, it just turns into a "Kennedy as Charlie Brown" moment.
#76 Sep 18 2009 at 2:16 AM Rating: Good
Quote:

That assumes that they do something with their majority. Otherwise, it just turns into a "Kennedy as Charlie Brown" moment.


True, but I've always been a "glass is half full" kinda guy.
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#77 Sep 18 2009 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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60 Seats doesn't mean much since all 60 Democratic senators don't really vote as a bloc. But 60 means one less Democrat to potentially fuck up the reconciliation process.
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#78publiusvarus, Posted: Sep 18 2009 at 11:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Omega,
#79 Sep 18 2009 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
so when it completely f*cks the economy the GOP will be able to step right up and say "we told you so".


Well at the rate the GOP is going, that may be the only way you win the next election. You've being given a gift! Carpe diem and all that ****.
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#80 Sep 18 2009 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess it's more important for illegals to have healthcare than for US citizens to have jobs.


Not that I honestly think that the american economy will collapse because we decide to give our citizens the quality of live of being a first world country, but

Yes, it is more important.
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paulsol wrote:
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#81 Sep 18 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default
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Pensive,

Quote:
Yes, it is more important


That's funny I would think food and shelter would be above health insurance in terms of necessity.

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#82 Sep 18 2009 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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But the question was health care vs. jobs, not health insurance vs. food and shelter.

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#83 Sep 18 2009 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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That's funny I would think food and shelter would be above health insurance in terms of necessity.


They are all approximately equal. All are (more or less) necessary conditions of life.

Now they aren't strictly logically necessary of course. You could survive with gangrene for a while I'm sure, manually cutting off the dead flesh with a pocketknife, and you could survive without food for a while, scrimping around in the gutter for plague rats, but take either health or food away from a person and the one that you do not take away no longer matters.

Mandating healthcare though, is more important than a job at the moment (and not equally) because a job should not be the necessary criterion for getting food and shelter. Satisfy these three conditions (and I'm sure we could think of more, if we were pedantic about it) and then you try to better your economic wealth, which is a superfluous enhancement to life, instead of a necessity of it.

Edited, Sep 18th 2009 5:22pm by Pensive
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paulsol wrote:
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#84 Sep 18 2009 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Didn't the economy just collapse because of the failure of supply side economics?
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