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#602 Oct 21 2014 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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How do you decide and/or define publications that are practicing unethical gaming journalism?
All of them right? What do I win?
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#603 Oct 21 2014 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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So why are reporting, article writing, awards, and game reviews not important? This is a multi billion dollar industry. Just because you think it's a fun hobby for some people means it doesn't matter what people do and say about the games?

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 11:17am by TirithRR
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#604 Oct 21 2014 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Quote:
How do you decide and/or define publications that are practicing unethical gaming journalism?
All of them right? What do I win?

I know.

I should write a game review. I need to write something. I have a journalism workshop I'm attending on Saturday and I need to have something written and ready for critique.

What game?

Or maybe I'll write a piece about #Gamersgate. Or maybe an essay about how dwarfs are stereotyped and objectified in fantasy role-playing games. I can find lots of example.
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#605 Oct 21 2014 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
What game?

Ms. Pac-Man.
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#606 Oct 21 2014 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
What game?

Ms. Pac-Man.

I have that on my Nook. I could review the tablet version and discuss trying to make controls originally designed for a console into a finger-touch pad. (fail!)
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#607 Oct 21 2014 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Quote:
How do you decide and/or define publications that are practicing unethical gaming journalism?
All of them right? What do I win?
You get to rate yourself up.

Also have a cookie: Smiley: cookie

Elinda wrote:
Or maybe an essay about how dwarfs are stereotyped and objectified in fantasy role-playing games. I can find lots of example.
Gnomes are worse, poor little things not my fault they're shaped like a football...
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#608 Oct 21 2014 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Also have a cookie: Smiley: cookie
Cookies are discriminatory against people with allergies and deficiencies. Misogynist.
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#609 Oct 21 2014 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
So why are reporting, article writing, awards, and game reviews not important? This is a multi billion dollar industry. Just because you think it's a fun hobby for some people means it doesn't matter what people do and say about the games?

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 11:17am by TirithRR


In terms of what gaming news sites are going to post? No, it isn't. Gaming news sites aren't posting the kind of info where integrity actually matters; those articles are posted on business news sites, where the multi-billion dollar industry part actually has an impact. The actual people investing huge sums of money in video games aren't reading Kotaku.

First things first, reviews aren't journalism. They never were journalism. They'll never be journalism. They're opinion pieces. They'll NEVER be anything but opinion pieces.

And that's NOT semantics, because all this ******** started because idiots were pissed about opinion pieces not being more objective. Because that's not absurd at all.

And reviews are fundamentally the most important aspect of gaming news sites, because they have the largest impact on sales and salaries (and even then, it's primarily through metacritic results, not their posted reviews).

Everything else? Doesn't matter. It just doesn't. Every so often there's a journalistic report that actually approaches something like journalism, like articles on what led to 38 Studios breaking up. Or "Talks at game developer conference include feminism in gaming" or whatever. Do I think they're particularly important in the "let's all freak out and start a movement" way? Hell no. But at least that's journalism.

But that was never the issue. What has these pissbabies upset are op-eds. Op-eds are not journalism, they'll never be journalism, and they never were journalism.

And gaming news sites would never survive if they focused solely on journalistic pieces, because no one wants to ******* read that. Gamers want inside tours of developer studios and ocarinas shaped like Majora's Mask, not stock and sales reports and expectations for the coming fiscal year.
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#610 Oct 21 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Or maybe an essay about how dwarfs are stereotyped and objectified in fantasy role-playing games. I can find lots of example.
Gnomes are worse, poor little things not my fault they're shaped like a football...

Write a piece ranking the tits on different types of elves across the MMORPG spectrum.
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#611 Oct 21 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Also have a cookie: Smiley: cookie
Cookies are discriminatory against people with allergies and deficiencies. Misogynist.
All part of my master plan to control the universe. Wait till everyone is allergic, then conquer the world with a single Pillsbury oven roll.

Also after 3 days of being derided as a feminist on Steam being called a misogynist feels pretty good. Smiley: lol

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#612 Oct 21 2014 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Or maybe an essay about how dwarfs are stereotyped and objectified in fantasy role-playing games. I can find lots of example.
Gnomes are worse, poor little things not my fault they're shaped like a football...

Write a piece ranking the tits on different types of elves across the MMORPG spectrum.
Sounds like free TERA advertising to me. How much are they paying you huh?
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#613 Oct 21 2014 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Or maybe an essay about how dwarfs are stereotyped and objectified in fantasy role-playing games. I can find lots of example.
Gnomes are worse, poor little things not my fault they're shaped like a football...

Write a piece ranking the tits on different types of elves across the MMORPG spectrum.
Sounds like free TERA advertising to me. How much are they paying you huh?

I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
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#614 Oct 21 2014 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
From a strictly business stand point, I don't think there is enough of a market for an MMO with big breasted women with huge crotch bulges.
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#615 Oct 21 2014 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
From a strictly business stand point, I don't think there is enough of a market for an MMO with big breasted women with huge crotch bulges.

Watch out for enrage.
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#616 Oct 21 2014 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Kavekkk wrote:
I must have missed the part of the initiation ritual where all sense of perspective is surgically removed.

Did it hurt?


Seriously, this.

It's **** like this that has kept me from trying to get into the gaming industry for a long time.

I think I could be successful as a game writer. I'm positive I don't have a thick enough skin to deal with this sort of ********* We've seen what happens to women; god forbid the *** guy is associated with a game featuring any prominent *** or female characters. I'd be crucified.
Throughout all of this, it's come out that everybody gets hate mail, not just the women. I just woke up and am very groggy so forgive me for not looking up tweets I've seen from youtube personalities, male journalists and male devs, but if you were going to be prominent, you'd get hate mail regardless of gender or sexuality. So yeah, you probably don't have a thick enough skin if you're worried about it.

Elinda wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Getting advertisers to pull out from ethically dubious publications and doing what we can not to read them. At this point, I'm not sure what else we can do as consumers, really.
How do you decide and/or define publications that are practicing unethical gaming journalism?
Right now, I'm most concerned about the ones who are actively malicious towards their audience. The eleven people who simultaneously **** on gamers in that single day are a good start. Other things to look for are journalists who are supporting devs they're supposed to be covering via Patreon and anyone associated with Silverstring Media.
#617 Oct 21 2014 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
From a strictly business stand point, I don't think there is enough of a market for an MMO with big breasted women with huge crotch bulges.


Make it based in a world of Furries and there won't be a problem.

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 1:11pm by Shaowstrike
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#618 Oct 21 2014 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Throughout all of this, it's come out that everybody gets hate mail, not just the women. I just woke up and am very groggy so forgive me for not looking up tweets I've seen from youtube personalities, male journalists and male devs, but if you were going to be prominent, you'd get hate mail regardless of gender or sexuality. So yeah, you probably don't have a thick enough skin if you're worried about it.
As good of a point as your making, I'd still argue there needs to be a firm line somewhere. At some point the "what if" becomes too much for normal people. Death threats, for example. It's one of those things where, sure, you figure there's only a small chance it's real, but the consequences if it is real are dire enough normal people may act on it. You wear a seatbelt (or you should...) even though the chance of getting in an accident is extremely small.

A thick skin is a good idea if you're going to have an online presence, but at some point internet asshattery does trickle into real life.

Edit: It made it through the filter! Smiley: yippee


Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
From a strictly business stand point, I don't think there is enough of a market for an MMO with big breasted women with huge crotch bulges.


Make it based in a world of Furries and their won't be a problem.
Is it too late to add in something with tentacles?

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 10:12am by someproteinguy
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#619 Oct 21 2014 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
From a strictly business stand point, I don't think there is enough of a market for an MMO with big breasted women with huge crotch bulges.


Make it based in a world of Furries and their won't be a problem.
Is it too late to add in something with tentacles?

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 10:03am by someproteinguy



No, but it's too late for me to change "their" to "there". Smiley: frown
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#620 Oct 21 2014 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I could discuss the obvious yet completely overlooked total absence of heroic crotch bulges.
From a strictly business stand point, I don't think there is enough of a market for an MMO with big breasted women with huge crotch bulges.


Make it based in a world of Furries and their won't be a problem.
Is it too late to add in something with tentacles?

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 10:03am by someproteinguy



No, but it's too late for me to change "their" to "there". Smiley: frown
A you trying to make me a villain?
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#621 Oct 21 2014 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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I'm most concerned about the ones who are actively malicious towards their audience. The eleven people who simultaneously **** on gamers in that single day are a good start. Other things to look for are journalists who are supporting devs they're supposed to be covering via Patreon and anyone associated with Silverstring Media.


The whole "death of gamers" articles was about how "gamers" have become diversified and the definition of a "gamer" is now more varied than the stereotypical South Park WOW guy.

Unfortunately, the stereotypical South Park WOW guys saw that as a threat to them, much how they view gamer girls, when it wasn't intended to be & here we are. I don't agree with the feminist chick that just had her speech cancelled, but I'm certainly not threatened by her. Super Macho COD type games are going to continue to come out and sell really, really well despite her. Feeling threatened because a feminist is pointing out the misogyny in gaming is silly unless you're super insecure, or have Asperger's.
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#622 Oct 21 2014 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Please don't pretend like men and women face harassment online that's anywhere close to equal in intent, severity, or amount. It does no credit to your intelligence, and it's a patently false misdirection. It also utterly ignores the reality that threats against women are consistently more likely to actualize in real violence in our society, where it's vastly less likely they will for men, and that the group in question is almost ENTIRELY made up of males, which deeply underlines the gender disparity in the issue.

"I received incredibly irate messages" is NOT the same thing as "I was harassed with violent, sexist remarks, they tracked down my address, and threatened to harm my family."

Here's a quick citation. It's not the one I was looking for, but it's definitely not too bad reading through it. I didn't check all of its citations, but it seems reliable.

Plus, it's so freaking pathetic to try and bring down organizations that have done no harm to you solely because you don't like the kind of games reporting they do.

You're not content with just not giving them ad revenue by not visiting the site (which, SHOCKER, would solve your entire freaking problem of not liking their content). Nope. Instead you have to do your best to try and leave people jobless and ruin their careers.

And you feel justify because some guy on twitter "bullied" you over being a crybaby? What a joke. You ARE being a crybaby. Suck it up, remove kotaku from your bookmarks, and just live your freaking life. If you're so incredibly averse to reading feminist opinions that deviate from yours, just go and hang out in the circlejerk subreddits that spawned this ********* Problem solved.
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#623 Oct 21 2014 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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I'll accept being a misogynist as soon as someone explains how having a vagina makes Depression Quest an enjoyable and/or enlightening product. Because according to Zoe and all those "irrelevant" op-eds, that was the reason given.

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 1:48pm by lolgaxe
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#624 Oct 21 2014 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Throughout all of this, it's come out that everybody gets hate mail, not just the women. I just woke up and am very groggy so forgive me for not looking up tweets I've seen from youtube personalities, male journalists and male devs, but if you were going to be prominent, you'd get hate mail regardless of gender or sexuality. So yeah, you probably don't have a thick enough skin if you're worried about it.
As good of a point as your making, I'd still argue there needs to be a firm line somewhere. At some point the "what if" becomes too much for normal people. Death threats, for example. It's one of those things where, sure, you figure there's only a small chance it's real, but the consequences if it is real are dire enough normal people may act on it. You wear a seatbelt (or you should...) even though the chance of getting in an accident is extremely small.

A thick skin is a good idea if you're going to have an online presence, but at some point internet asshattery does trickle into real life.
I don't disagree. I just disagree that it's a gendered issue, regardless of how many Time opinion articles someone wants to link, especially ones that include that 1 in 5 "statistic".


Edited, Oct 21st 2014 11:51am by Poldaran
#625 Oct 21 2014 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Plus, it's so freaking pathetic to try and bring down organizations that have done no harm to you solely because you don't like the kind of games reporting they do.
I agree, Zoe Quinn is scum.
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#626 Oct 21 2014 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
The whole "death of gamers" articles was about how "gamers" have become diversified and the definition of a "gamer" is now more varied than the stereotypical South Park WOW guy.

Unfortunately, the stereotypical South Park WOW guys saw that as a threat to them

When you have articles like A Guide to Ending "Gamers", Sexism, Misogyny, and online attacks: It's a horrible time to consider yourself a gamer, and It's Dangerous to Go Alone: Why Are Gamers So Angry?, it's not especially surprising that people who self-identify as gamers might feel attacked. Those aren't "Let's celebrate how diverse we are" but rather calls to root gamers out.

As mentioned way back upthread, the crescendo of stupid probably peaked with some idiot lecturing me on how I need to fight "gamers" by no longer considering a game's entertainment value as its primary worth but rather develop new criteria such as how socially relevant, edifying and healing the game was. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Oct 21st 2014 1:12pm by Jophiel
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