Can't even begin to come up with a title for this oneFollow

A few months ago, my wife and I came under the discussion of what we would do if our now 3 year old son grew up and turned out gay. We both determined that would be perfectly fine with us, and we would be nothing but supportive, with hardly any thought.

Then my wife brings up the idea of him being transsexual, and it's here I'm not so sure.

I've been reading a lot of rage on Tumblr lately about how some transsexual teenage furry artist killed himself after being bullied by their parents all their lives. Not just reading, but wading through post after post after post of the same people completely up in arms over what a great injustice it is, and going as far as comparing it the Michael Brown/Tamir Rice/etc,etc cases. This is really where I draw the line-- how can you compare a white male teenager committing suicide to what is basically open season on black men by police officers being forcibly murdered?

Then I begin to ask myself questions: What is a transsexual person exactly? Would this boy have turned out transsexual if not for his parents lifelong abuse? Would any of these people screaming about this person on Tumblr care at all if he wasn't transsexual?

So I end up telling my wife that it's not a path I would hope for our son to tread down, and she gets annoyed with me. "If it's what would make him happy, we must be supportive no matter what." OK. I get that. So if he's a boy and wants really badly to be a girl, I'm supposed to support that-- and maybe if there was some magical way to transform his gender completely there'd be no problem. The problem is there is no such magic in this world that can do that.

If he wants to wear a dress, or decides to do things that are considered feminine, that's his prerogative. Fine. I don't exactly believe in typical gender roles. The moment he goes around telling other people he's a girl, or telling himself that-- that is when I have a problem. If being happy means chasing after something that can never possibly be, there is a problem. Wearing different clothes will not make him a woman. He can take hormones and pay a doctor to destroy and mutilate his body, but he'd still be a man. He'd be a man desperately trying to lie to himself and others for something he wants that will never happen. I honestly cannot see any virtue or reason in that. The result is a really pissed and weepy wife who just can't believe what I'm saying.

Is there something I'm not seeing here? Am I really the Neocon racist typical cis-whatever white guy the kids on Tumblr think I am for thinking this? I'm really interested in seeing what a train wreck this thread could become.

edit: wow the things that get censored.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2015 1:38pm by Kuwoobie

Edited, Jan 3rd 2015 1:38pm by Kuwoobie

I honestly don't know how to begin to respond. I will say this much, though(severe oversharing incoming): If there were a magical method to change your sex with no more difficulty than cutting your hair, I'd probably change about as often as I currently cut my hair. And would likely leave myself as female more than 50% of the time. And if there were a method to fully change one time one way, I might strongly consider going female. I've always felt like I'd have been happier as a female, though I'm also not unhappy as a male. But that doesn't exist so I decided some time back that I'd rather be what I can be fully biologically and be happy with it. It doesn't fully represent me, but it's good enough for me. In my case and speaking only for myself, I feel the same as you. Better to be what I can fully attain than chase something that I can't be 100%.

No idea on how to feel about other people making a different decision for themselves after they're old enough to really comprehend it. Erring on the side of "they're old enough to decide and it's not hurting anyone else". I do get a little pissed when parents decide for their kid that they're really a different gender than what they were born, which makes me think of the David Reimer case. Thankfully, that's rare but I hear about it happening from time to time.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2015 6:26am by Poldaran

I lump this into the ever-growing category of things I don't have a strong opinion about since I've never had to experience them first hand.

That social justice warriors are idiots.

I have been told by several women that I'm their girliest friend, so I can understand the confusion.

I'd have posted a lot more cosplay photos if I wasn't.

...a thousand deaths an inconvenience?

No, that's just Black Friday.

Surprising absolutely no one, there's a petition.

Possessives don't work that way, Tumblr People.

Those are mostly my sentiments. I was actually thinking about this subject when the story broke about Angelina Jolie's child changing genders. I wouldn't necessarily like for my child to be outside reasonable gender roles, but that is completely different than calling yourself an entirely different sex.

Outside looking in, it expresses that the individual isn't happy with who they are. Furthermore, that creates a slippery slope to what we are. We are transitioning from something that is primarily objective to something that is primarily subjective. Granted, it wont go as crazy as "I'm a tree, so therefore I don't have to pay taxes", but once that line is breached, we will find ourselves, once again, battling a social war of hypocrisy.

Out of fear of being accused of playing with semantics, that depends on how you're defining gender as opposed to s.e.x. S.e.x in the traditional biological definition is about as binary as you can get in dealing with life. There are some few exceptions, but exceptions always exist. Gender in the currently described definition is socially created (i.e., not biological). If you're differentiating gender from s.e.x, then your gender is independent of your s.e.x. That means whatever you want to label your gender will have no effect on your s.e.x, so therefore, you can not claim to biologically be a woman when you were born a man. However, you can feel free to partake in stereotypical woman gender roles.

You can be 5'5" and say that you are not short for a 40 year old man, but you can't claim that you aren't 5'5". One is objectively measured and the other is socially created.

Edited, Jan 4th 2015 12:59am by Almalieque

There's no ambiguity. SeX is defined by your physiology. Gender is mental, emotional, social... complex.

Not even going to get into the height analogy.

That is not entirely correct. Some people are fine with maintaining a personality that is not in line with their assigned physiological seX (and for centuries it was their only recourse, other than living what felt entirely like a lie). There are all sorts of stories of women who "passed" as men throughout history, and allegedly one of them may have been a Pope (Pope Joan, if you're interested). I'm sure the opposite also happened, it must have, although of course those individuals were less likely to attain a place in history, being female and all.

At any rate, since about the 1960s people who felt their physiological seX assignment was wrong have had recourse to other means - surgery and hormone therapy. These are not mutilations. As far as the trans people undergoing them are concerned, they are corrections.