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Politicians say the darndest thingsFollow

#1 Aug 31 2015 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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We forgot about Christi for a while. Mostly because he was consistently outdone by Trump on that front, mostly. I chuckled. Then I recoiled in horror at the realization that he may actually be serious. Then I chuckled again, because he must be pandering. And then I realized that I should not worry too much about Christi.

It is the prospect of Hillary vs Trump that really makes me annoyed. And the idea of branding people with barcodes is just so..biblical. End of times, here we come.



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#2 Sep 01 2015 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
Then I chuckled again, because he must be pandering. And then I realized that I should not worry too much about Christi.
And yet you're annoyed at the prospect of Trump getting a nod. Smiley: dubious
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#3 Sep 01 2015 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Then I chuckled again, because he must be pandering. And then I realized that I should not worry too much about Christi.
And yet you're annoyed at the prospect of Trump getting a nod. Smiley: dubious


In my defense, I am always annoyed; I think it is my default state.
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#4 Sep 02 2015 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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I secretly want a Sanders vs Trump election. I think a Hilaru vs Trump election might actually be a real possibility.

There seems to be a narrative out there that Trump would not be pandering to corporate donors because he has his own billions - he would only be pandering to himself, we know he'd only be pandering to himself, and that is better than the usual.
#5 Sep 02 2015 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
There seems to be a narrative out there that Trump would not be pandering to corporate donors because he has his own billions - he would only be pandering to himself, we know he'd only be pandering to himself, and that is better than the usual.
This is something I don't understand. People who want to vote for him because he doesn't owe anyone anything and is willing to stand up to corporate America. I heard a caller yesterday on an NPR show refer to it as corporatocracy and Trump is just the guy to stand up to it.

Trump has been pressing for repeal of Sarbanes-Oxley for a long time, and is a businessman (whether a good or bad businessman is debatable) to the end. I would never turn a nine year-old loose in a supermarket with my credit card and a shopping cart, because I know what my fridge and kitchen cabinets would be filled with. He may "stand up" to his brothers and sisters who want frozen pizza and ice cream, but that doesn't mean the shopping cart is going to be filled with fruits and vegetables.

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#6 Sep 02 2015 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Oh you are so right. I didn't say it was a rational, or correct narrative. I just want to understand why a lot of thinking people are serious about Trump. I think it would be dangerous to dismiss all Trump supporters as bigots or idiots.
#7 Sep 02 2015 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Propose a better, more efficient and less 'horrifying" method of tracking people visiting on visas.


#8 Sep 02 2015 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is the phenomenon of people overstaying their visas a big problem, really? I thought the big noise was about the visa-less.
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#9 Sep 02 2015 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Trappin wrote:
Propose a better, more efficient and less 'horrifying" method of tracking people visiting on visas.




Umm.. how about we... do not track them? What is it with society today? Why does everything and *************** has to be tracked?
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#10 Sep 02 2015 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Trappin wrote:
Propose a better, more efficient and less 'horrifying" method of tracking people visiting on visas.


Well, the "horrifying" parts were speculation on the part of other people. He just said he'd hire the CEO of Fed Ex to come up with a system. Other people went down the whole "He's treating them like packages" and "He's proposing we put bar codes on them" paths. I'd assume he was just talking about having a coordinated system/database/whatever to consolidate information about where people with visas are at any given time using normal methods (cause they do things like rent homes, buy things, have jobs, pay taxes, etc). Right now, we don't make any effort to even pay attention to them at all, nor associate their activities with the fact that they are here temporarily (in theory). And when their visas expire, it's not like anyone checks up on them. They just expire, and then at some future point if someone happens to run into them, and happens to check their status, then maybe something might be done.

I happen to agree that this is the least problematic side of the issue to deal with though. The real problem isn't folks who overstay their visas. We know who they are, have some documentation on them (even if it's not shared well), and they presumably went through at least some process to check to see if they are like wanted criminals or terrorists or whatever prior to letting them in. The problem is with undocumented aliens. These are the folks who sneak through the border without ever going through any sort of checkpoint. We don't know who they are, where they came from originally, what they're doing here, or anything at all about them (including how many there are). They are a problem because while I'm sure most are just here looking for work, some are certainly engaged in criminal enterprises of various sorts, and some may be involved in even more nefarious things. And even those who are here just to work present a problem in that because they had to enter illegally, they had to have some kind of help from someone else to do so. Today's illegal border crossers are not brought across for a few hundred dollars by a mom and pop coyote operation who have a cousin on the other side with a van. They're brought across by organized criminal cartels who charge a stiff price for doing so, often resulting in the illegal being indentured to them as a result. The best result of that is a portion of the illegals earnings going to further fund the cartel (they're not doing this out of a desire to help people live better lives after all), with the potential for a "company store" type situation where the illegal can basically never earn his or her way out from under their thumbs. Worst results are some pretty horrific examples of effective human slavery, prostitution, trafficking, and forced criminality to "pay off" their debts.


I know that this issue often comes off as being "anti-immigrant", but for many of these people, they'd be far far better off if our nation had a well enforced and consistent policy on this rather than the jumble of rules, only haphazardly enforced, that we have now. Thinking you're helping people just trying to find a better life for themselves by looking the other way on this isn't really helping at all. It's rarely a case of sunshine in the land of the free for the people who sneak across the border illegally. It's more often a case of long term suffering that they'd never have entered into if they'd know what was going to happen. Spend some time talking to some of the law enforcement guys dealing with human trafficking and you'll never look at the immigration issue the same way again. This is not about "us vs them". It's about "them being taken advantage of by the other them, and us sitting on the side lines because we don't want to look like we're anti-immigrant". It's a terribly simplistic view of the issue IMO.
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#11 Sep 02 2015 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
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We could just push their sinking rafts off the shore and back into the sea like they're doing in Europe.
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#12 Sep 02 2015 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
We could just push their sinking rafts off the shore and back into the sea like they're doing in Europe.


And here I thought Europe was the model of social enlightenment.
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#13 Sep 02 2015 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, we can't do the raft thing now because someone in Europe did it first and American Exceptionalism!

Europe is far too different for their solutions to work here!
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#14 Sep 02 2015 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Well crap. That tosses out the whole "string a bell around their necks" idea too. Back to the drawing board!
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#15 Sep 03 2015 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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Drone strike the rafts?
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#16 Sep 03 2015 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suggest a large RFID chip, visibly installed in the right palm of all people, and once an agreed upon time has passed it starts to brightly glow and indicate it's their last day and the person is to be removed, by whatever means is appropriate.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2015 10:01am by lolgaxe
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#17 Sep 03 2015 at 8:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Spend some time talking to some of the law enforcement guys dealing with human trafficking and you'll never look at the immigration issue the same way again.

I'm sure that Gbaji now knows twenty human trafficking law enforcement people.

There's this woman I know, and sometimes make children with, who spent years directly involved in immigration enforcement and can no doubt write a book of direct experiences versus whatever 3x5 note card Gbaji could half fill but, you know, direct experience will never trump 3rd hand accounts you read off a blog somewhere.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2015 9:10am by Jophiel
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#18 Sep 03 2015 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I suggest a large RFID chip, visibly installed in the right palm of all people, and once an agreed upon time has passed it starts to brightly glow and indicate it's their last day and the person is to be removed, by whatever means is appropriate.


And if they are still here 24 hours after time is up, it explodes.

That way, we find the one-handed person, writhing in pain and bleeding to death, and have them removed from this country, with little to no resistance.
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#19 Sep 03 2015 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I suggest a large RFID chip, visibly installed in the right palm of all people, and once an agreed upon time has passed it starts to brightly glow and indicate it's their last day and the person is to be removed, by whatever means is appropriate.


And if they are still here 24 hours after time is up, it explodes.

That way, we find the one-handed person, writhing in pain and bleeding to death, and have them removed from this country, with little to no resistance.


Not sure if you get the reference...
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#20 Sep 03 2015 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Apparently not... Smiley: tongue
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#21 Sep 03 2015 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Drone strike the rafts?
Why is that a question? it's the most American thing suggested on this form. It should be a declaration!
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#22 Sep 03 2015 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
Umm.. how about we... do not track them? What is it with society today? Why does everything and *************** has to be tracked?


You posted the topic, so state your position and maybe we can have a discussion. Is that too much to ask? Are you a libertarian and believe in open borders? Should governmental agencies like the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services be shuttered? Stuff like that would help move the discussion forward.



#23 Sep 03 2015 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Trappin wrote:
You posted the topic, so state your position and maybe we can have a discussion.

You must be lost.
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#24 Sep 03 2015 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Vague, ill researched declarations are about the only thing that cause anything resembling "discussion."
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#25 Sep 03 2015 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Apparently not... Smiley: tongue
Logan's Run.

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#26 Sep 03 2015 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Trappin wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Umm.. how about we... do not track them? What is it with society today? Why does everything and *************** has to be tracked?


You posted the topic, so state your position and maybe we can have a discussion. Is that too much to ask? Are you a libertarian and believe in open borders? Should governmental agencies like the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services be shuttered? Stuff like that would help move the discussion forward.



Heh. My position is that a person that relies on mental shortcuts and labels like 'libertarian' is probably a little too far gone for a discussion.

Probably. Prove me wrong.


Edited, Sep 3rd 2015 3:52pm by angrymnk
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