1
Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Omnibus Politics Thread: Campaign 2016 EditionFollow

#477 Dec 09 2015 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
So Donald Trump's next solution to those scary Muslims is to get Bill Gates to turn off the internet.


Edited, Dec 9th 2015 10:32am by lolgaxe
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#478 Dec 09 2015 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,593 posts
I don't think you can be less liberal than Trump...
#479 Dec 09 2015 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
Which Trump? 2007 Trump or 2015 Trump?
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#480 Dec 09 2015 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
***
1,159 posts
2015 Trump for cooking, but you really want an older vintage for drinking. 2007 Trump has a nice depth of flavour by this point, you could certainly do worse.
____________________________
Timelordwho wrote:
I'm not quite sure that scheming is an emotion.
#481 Dec 09 2015 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Trump's ideas totally don't appeal to Republicans, no sir.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#482 Dec 09 2015 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
His support isn't from conservatives
Don't you think if that was the case that the RNC would loudly and publicly disown him?


No. Why should they? He's a registered Republican, and he's running for office. He's got as much right to do that as anyone. That has nothing at all to do with whether his support is from conservatives.

Quote:
Being a giant racist douche is the GOP thing now and has been for decades.


No, it's not. It is,, however, the strawman that liberals repeat over and over so as to feel better about themselves and their own failing policy ideas. The Left figured out decades ago that it can't actually win on ideas, so it has to demonize the Right in order to get fool people into acting on the exact association you just repeated. It's why I continually point out how often people on this forum frame their positions not based on what they support and why it's good, but what they oppose and why it's bad. That's usually a good indicator that you're not actually making a good assessment, but are acting based on some kind of associative reasoning.

Quote:
The Democrats wouldn't touch him Don't you get your news from anywhere?


Um... Yeah. They would. You're really naive if you believe that the Dems are actually the party opposed to bigotry. They thrive on bigotry. They've just convinced enough people that their form of it is ok.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#483 Dec 09 2015 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Plurality is not majority though, right?

Hence my use of the word "plurality".


But you need a majority of delegates to win the nomination. So we agree that this doesn't mean he can or will win the nomination? Great. We're done. You intentionally used a term that supports my position and not yours. Thanks!

Quote:
Right though, polling indicates that out of every four GOP voters, at least one is saying "You know what? I really like what the Trump guy is saying".


"GOP voters" defined as "anyone who says they might vote in the GOP primary this time around when cold called by a pollster". Just making sure you grasp that this doesn't have much relevance in terms of who will actually win a nomination for a given party. Hair on fire candidates tend to create interest, but that interest tends to be by those who aren't really very politically active, and are unlikely to actually vote come primary day, and historically cause incredibly inaccurate polling predictions.

I was reading some site yesterday that first pointed out that this years GOP primary has a very high percentage of people who poll as following the primary "very closely" (like 82% versus most non-incumbent primaries peaking at around 75%). It also made a point to show that the higher this number is, the less accurate polling numbers are at predicting the outcome of the primary. This is because those added people tend to be those who have the least political savvy, and are the least likely to actual vote. This is where Trump is getting most of his polling numbers from.

Quote:
So what? Obama turned out unprecedented numbers of first time voters to the polls during the primaries and general election. Those people were really Republicans in disguise or something?


Lol. Trump is not Obama. Oh. And polls showed Clinton wining by a large margin in late 2007. Hence my point above. It was actually one of the examples in the article I read.


Quote:
Edit: I do love, though, how Gbaji's response to anything about Republican racism is "NO! Democrats did it!!". Which comes to a head here with saying that the guy who will make Mexico pay for a giant wall to keep its rapists and murdering population out and we'll round up the Muslims and track them (when not keeping them out) is really a big liberal only pretending to be a conservative and Democrats would be voting for him if only he was running on their side. It's like there's no other mechanism in Gbaji's brain beyond "Blame Democrats".


Um... Which is why I keep pointing out that Trump does not actually reflect the views or opinions of the majority of conservatives. He's a very good example of the strawman version that liberals love to trot out though. Which is why you liberals love him (he matches your narrative), and why he has such high negatives among conservatives (he makes us look bad by association). It's why the media pays so much attention to him. Finally, they have a GOP candidate who actually lives up to what they think a conservative candidate should look like.

He's not a conservative. He's a liberal who's adopted the persona that liberals *think* conservatives are. I'm not sure how many times or in how many different ways I can say this. I just find it funny that you repeatedly make the whole "See! Conservatives really are bigoted like I've always believed" claim, while apparently failing to notice that Trump is not remotely like conservatives. He's like how you wish conservatives were, so as to make your own "side" look a bit better.

Painting the other guy with warts doesn't make your look any better. Just a thought. And covering one of your own guys in warts and then having him stand in a crowd with the other guys doesn't really prove anything either. Trump is a liberal. He's always been a liberal. Just look at his nearly reflexive fall back to big government solutions to every problem. He believes that government is the solution to most/all problems. That should be your first clue that he's not conservative. He's savvy enough to parrot the conservative slogans, but when he's asked a policy question and isn't giving a bumper sticker answer, it's obvious that he's a liberal. Just putting an "R" after your name doesn't make you a conservative. And he's no conservative.

Edited, Dec 9th 2015 6:40pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#484 Dec 09 2015 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
No one was talking about Trump again and he was slipping in the polls, so he said something ridiculous and got everyone talking about him again. The problem the GOP now has is that 2/3rds of those polled (& 18% of Dems) seem to agree that banning all Muslims is a good thing. I don't think the GOP can win a general election this way, but who knows?

It's very possible that a Trump nomination or 3rd party ballot gives Bernie the election. I never thought Bernie had a shot until Trump started getting taken seriously!
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#485 Dec 09 2015 at 10:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Plurality is not majority though, right?
Hence my use of the word "plurality".
But you need a majority of delegates to win the nomination. So we agree that this doesn't mean he can or will win the nomination? Great. We're done. You intentionally used a term that supports my position and not yours. Thanks!

Actually, someone winning a plurality in all the states would easily win the contest. Only the first batch of states in the GOP system are proportionally delegated, then it switches to a winner-takes-all system. You would win 1,304 out of the 1,237 needed just by getting a plurality in every state on or after March 15, skipping all the proportional states. Especially since the GOP doesn't have a robust super-delegate system like the Democratic side to act as a hedge.

But, yeah, "we're done", "thanks", "My name is Gbaji and I have no clue how my party's nomination system works", etc.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying he WILL win, just that he COULD win with a plurality. And that you can win a majority of delegates with plurality support.

Edited, Dec 9th 2015 11:02pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#486 Dec 09 2015 at 11:22 PM Rating: Excellent
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
Avatar
****
9,957 posts
gbaji wrote:
He's not a conservative. He's a liberal who's adopted the persona that liberals *think* conservatives are.
And then get's embraced by a good chunk of the "conservative" party. Funny that.


gbaji wrote:
I'm not sure how many times or in how many different ways I can say this.
Lying gives one the opportunity to try and lie as many ways as one can think of. Lucky for you!


gbaji wrote:
I just find it funny that you repeatedly make the whole "See! Conservatives really are bigoted like I've always believed" claim, while apparently failing to notice that Trump is not remotely like conservatives. He's like how you wish conservatives were, so as to make your own "side" look a bit better.
No, really. What planet are you from?
____________________________
remorajunbao wrote:
One day I'm going to fly to Canada and open the curtains in your office.

#487 Dec 10 2015 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,543 posts
I can kind of see where gbaji is going with this. This is why I really hate to use labels like "conservative" and "liberal." Donald Trump is very much the strawman character people imagine when they think "conservative." But despite how many "conservative" supporters he has, there is likely an equal number of "conservatives" who hate him and think he's a clown. That doesn't qualify him as a liberal, but then again, the term "liberal" is used by many people to describe practically everything that doesn't match up perfectly with their ideology, so who knows.

It's like one side of the conservative base loves him for how "honest" he is, while the other side loathes him because even they're not fooled by how fake he is. He IS fake. I doubt he has some secret liberal agenda though-- unless it's to sabotage Republican's chances of winning next year's election and make them all look like fools, in which case it seems to be working quite well.

The trouble with all this is; Donald Trump is not a strawman. He's a real person who is really running president and even if every word that comes out of his mouth is a total lie, he still appeals to a very large number of conservatives and absolutely zero people who can realistically be considered "liberal."

I hate to imagine what this would be like if this were happening to Democrats. For starters, it would not be someone who's controversy derives from conservative virtues like greed and racism. If Democrats had a Donald Trump, he (or she) would be someone who represents all of the most negative "liberal" tropes. I can't even begin to imagine what that might look like. SJW and environmental terrorists come to mind.

Maybe it'd be some obnoxious teen girl right out of Tumblr. She'd demand we start a new religion honoring transexuals as gods and call for the systematic execution of all adult straight, white men. Yeah, I couldn't come up with anything more creative than that despite all the SWJ strawman memes I've been seeing on FB involving forcing children to wear gender neutral Halloween costumes or some such.



Edited, Dec 10th 2015 2:13pm by Kuwoobie
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#488 Dec 10 2015 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
*******
50,767 posts
Kuwoobie wrote:
I can kind of see where gbaji is going with this.
gbaji wrote:
ON A MONDAY THRU’ TAE FRIDAY
I GO AFF TAE MA WORK
I WEAR MA BOOTS AND TROUSERS
WAE A FANCY TIE AND SHIRT
THEN BEFORE YE KNOW IT
THE WEEKENDS COME AROON
A GO HAME A PUT MA KILT ON
AND GANG AFF TAE THE TOON

COS AM A TRUE SCOTSMAN
AND A WANT YE ALL TAE KNOW
AND I PROUDLY WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW
AND THE LASSIES ALWAYS ASK
IF AM WEARING ANY BREEKS
AND EV’RY TIME I SHOW THEM
YOU CAN ALWAYS HEAR THEM SHRIEK

WE GO AND WATCH THE FITBA
AND CHEER OUR FAVOURITE TEAM
AND SOME MAY SHOW THEIR COLOURS
BELIEVING IN A DREAM
BUT THEY ALWAYS KNOW WE’RE SCOTTISH
AND I’LL TELL HOW THEY KNOW
COS WE ALWAYS WEAR OOR KILTS
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW

COS AM A TRUE SCOTSMAN
AND A WANT YE ALL TAE KNOW
AND I PROUDLY WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW
AND THE LASSIES ALWAYS ASK
IF AM WEARING ANY BREEKS
AND EV’RY TIME I SHOW THEM
YOU CAN ALWAYS HEAR THEM SHRIEK

AT EVERY GLASGAE FARE
A GO TAE TENERIFFE
THERE’S EVERY NATIONALITY
TOO MANY TO BELIEVE
THEY ASK ME IF AM ENGLISH
BUT NOW I THINK THEY KNOW
COS I ALWAYS WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW

COS AM A TRUE SCOTSMAN
AND A WANT YE ALL TAE KNOW
AND I PROUDLY WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW
AND THE LASSIES ALWAYS ASK
IF AM WEARING ANY BREEKS
AND EV’RY TIME I SHOW THEM
YOU CAN ALWAYS HEAR THEM SHRIEK

COS AM A TRUE SCOTSMAN
AND A WANT YE ALL TAE KNOW
AND I PROUDLY WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW

THEY ALWAYS WANT TAE ASK ME
I’M NO’ TOO SHY TO SHOW
THAT I ALWAYS WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW

THAT I ALWAYS WEAR MA KILT
WAE NOTHING ELSE BELOW


In actual politics, Marco Rubio wants evidence of Islamophobia.

Edited, Dec 10th 2015 9:24am by lolgaxe
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#489 Dec 10 2015 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Kuwoobie wrote:
I can kind of see where gbaji is going with this. This is why I really hate to use labels like "conservative" and "liberal."

So don't use them. Trump is running for the Republican Party nomination for US president. Thus, he is a Republican and would be the de facto leader of the Republican Party if he were to win. There's no magic "conservative" test to be applied here where you get to say he doesn't count because he doesn't meet some nebulous metric you're making up on the fly to exclude him. Trump is a Republican and is currently leading in the polls to become the next Republican nominee.
Quote:
If Democrats had a Donald Trump, he (or she) would be someone who represents all of the most negative "liberal" tropes. I can't even begin to imagine what that might look like. SJW and environmental terrorists come to mind.

Gosh, what if we had someone running who called himself a socialist? Smiley: eek

Edited, Dec 10th 2015 8:44am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#490 Dec 10 2015 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
I imagine every State of the Union program would have a Pre-SotU show. An hour long Trigger Warning consisting of an apology to all the groups of people that might be offended by any of the words used during the State of the Union and then apologizing to all the groups who might be offended because the announcement doesn't offer anything to be offended by and might make those people feel left out.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#491 Dec 10 2015 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
I can kind of see where gbaji is going with this. This is why I really hate to use labels like "conservative" and "liberal."

So don't use them. Trump is running for the Republican Party nomination for US president. Thus, he is a Republican and would be the de facto leader of the Republican Party if he were to win. There's no magic "conservative" test to be applied here where you get to say he doesn't count because he doesn't meet some nebulous metric you're making up on the fly to exclude him. Trump is a Republican and is currently leading in the polls to become the next Republican nominee.
Quote:
If Democrats had a Donald Trump, he (or she) would be someone who represents all of the most negative "liberal" tropes. I can't even begin to imagine what that might look like. SJW and environmental terrorists come to mind.

Gosh, what if we had someone running who called himself a socialist? Smiley: eek

Free everything for everybody! Come on in and suck on the teat of socialism! You won't have to pay for a thing!

- Said nobody, ever.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#492 Dec 11 2015 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Conservative nominee supports abortions when it benefits him.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#493 Dec 15 2015 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:
No one was talking about Trump again and he was slipping in the polls, so he said something ridiculous and got everyone talking about him again.


Surely you can see the pattern here.

Quote:
The problem the GOP now has is that 2/3rds of those polled (& 18% of Dems) seem to agree that banning all Muslims is a good thing. I don't think the GOP can win a general election this way, but who knows?


Sure. Where did you get that number though? 2/3rds agreed that banning all Muslims is a good thing? Either you're misquoting some poll result, or there's a math error, or some combination of things that makes what you just said not anywhere remotely like reality. That's an absurd number. First instinct should be to question the source, not repeat it on the internet.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#494 Dec 15 2015 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
He's not a conservative. He's a liberal who's adopted the persona that liberals *think* conservatives are.
And then get's embraced by a good chunk of the "conservative" party. Funny that.


No. He's embraced by small percentage (about 25%) of those who answer a pollsters call and say they plan to vote in the GOP primary. That's not necessarily representative of conservatives, much less the "conservative party" (by which I assume you mean the GOP). It would be interesting to see if the ratio of people answering poll calls that identify as intending to vote in the GOP primary is relatively higher in this cycle than in past ones. Which would suggest that a good portion of Trumps polling numbers are coming from some combination of people who don't normally vote GOP because their candidates aren't sufficiently racist/bigoted/combovered for them, people who don't normally pay attention to primaries anyway, but this Trump fellow seems to be in the news all the time and they've heard of him from his TV show, and people who normally vote DEM, but see that there's no real competition there and think it's really really funny to push Trump up in the polls and try to mess with the GOP (and help their own parties chances).

My point is that Trump does not represent what the GOP and its candidates normally represent. Trying to back fill some kind of profile of what makes someone a conservative by pointing at Trump is silly. I know it fits the liberal narrative, but it's just not true. He's only viewed as a conservative by people who watch Colbert and think that he's actually a conservative instead of a comedian playing a strawman version of conservatives. That's the joke, right? And that's what Trump is. A joke.


Kuwoobie wrote:
I can kind of see where gbaji is going with this. This is why I really hate to use labels like "conservative" and "liberal." Donald Trump is very much the strawman character people imagine when they think "conservative." But despite how many "conservative" supporters he has, there is likely an equal number of "conservatives" who hate him and think he's a clown. That doesn't qualify him as a liberal, but then again, the term "liberal" is used by many people to describe practically everything that doesn't match up perfectly with their ideology, so who knows.


/shrug

He's been a Democrat most of his life. Whatever we want to call him, he's the kind of guy more liberals will identify as being conservative than conservatives would.

Quote:
I hate to imagine what this would be like if this were happening to Democrats. For starters, it would not be someone who's controversy derives from conservative virtues like greed and racism. If Democrats had a Donald Trump, he (or she) would be someone who represents all of the most negative "liberal" tropes. I can't even begin to imagine what that might look like. SJW and environmental terrorists come to mind.


Um... Obama. That's what it would look like. With the key difference that the Left actually embraced the nutty guy with terrible positions and a disastrously simplistic and doomed to fail agenda. This is why I've said several times that Trump is just Obama all over again. Forget labels, we're talking about voting for an outsider with little or no experience, and frankly terrible ideas, and doing so *because* he's not part of the political class. That's the real mistake here. Trump's more or less an idiot when it comes to policy. But that's the same thing with Obama.

The letter after their names is different is all. We don't need four more years of that. *shudder*
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#495 Dec 15 2015 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,543 posts
Yes. Yes. Trump is like Obama Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#496 Dec 15 2015 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
*******
50,767 posts
gbaji wrote:
Surely you can see the pattern here.
Why do you think no one takes you serious?
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#497 Dec 15 2015 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
Avatar
****
9,957 posts
gbaji wrote:
First instinct should be to question the source, not repeat it on the internet.
That's pretty rich coming from you, Mr. Heritage Foundation.Smiley: laugh
____________________________
remorajunbao wrote:
One day I'm going to fly to Canada and open the curtains in your office.

#498 Dec 16 2015 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
No argument that Obama embodied all the conservative boogeymen. Why else would they spend six years telling themselves that they can make the scary black man go away by finding his secret Muslim birth certificate?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#499 Dec 16 2015 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Jophiel wrote:
No argument that Obama embodied all the conservative boogeymen.
So by that logic Obama was a conservative.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#500 Dec 16 2015 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Speaker Ryan has the most atrocious "beard" I've seen since high school.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#501 Dec 16 2015 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Speaker Ryan has the most atrocious "beard" I've seen since high school.


My feeble beard-growing attempts make Ryan's look like Hagrid.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 365 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (365)