... WTF??Follow

If I can't count on this forum to keep me up on Marvel news of this import, what good is it?

I understand Thor will be given the ultimate weapon?

Lol, Marvel writes the story.

Maybe if Helmsworth hadn't been so unworthy by always getting his *** kicked by the much more believable Loki, the female Thor wouldn't have needed to pick up the hammer.

And Wonder Woman.

Edited, Jul 28th 2014 9:37am by Shaowstrike

I think they're arguing that it's both. Thor is the name of the guy, but according to the inscription on Mjolnir, it's also the name of the person bearing its power. After all, "The power of Thor" doesn't directly refer to Thor's power, per se, since the power comes from the hammer.

Before now, to the best of my knowledge, the hammer has only been held by someone else for short periods. With the exception of Eric Masterson, who was "transformed" into Thor... while Thor still existed. Which is sort of the same scenario here - he WAS Eric Masterson, but he was also Thor, and Thor was still Thor, but without being Thor.

I think Marvel is essentially saying that anyone who is a chosen by the hammer to be its new wielder becomes Thor. So the hammer is going to abandon Thor and choose a woman who will become the new Thor as a result.

Thor won't lose his name, he'll just be Thor without the power of Thor.

Comics!

I was just going with the main universe examples.

So far the going theories are it'll Spoilereither be Jane Foster again, since she's currently in Asgard as a Midgardian Diplomat to the Council of Worlds or a future timeline great-granddaughter of Thor's, and Valkyrie who drops in and out of storylines and books. There's not much to go on yet, but what we do know is that Thor has his own powers without Mjolnir so it's not really likely he'll lose his powers. He apparently will lose his arm and get a robot Destroyer Armor arm to replace it, because the 90s are cool, and be using Jarnbjorn, a giant axe with the power to cut down Celestials (think gods of gods).

SpoilerHave a Labrathor.

Edited, Jul 28th 2014 10:28am by lolgaxe

I see your Labrathor and raise you a Thorgi!

Worthy of Mewlnir

You knew what I meant. Go to the well, make something new. Come up with a new set of powers, a new set of duties. Just because a Legacy Character isn't Generation Xerox(actual genetics aside) doesn't make them a truly new character.

They ARE adding new female characters. And new male characters. And they are reaching the level of importance to be on teams like the Avengers.

But next to players like Thor, who have 50 years behind them, the idea of new characters realistically competing to be as valuable is a really big hurdle.

The solution? Merge your mission to diversify your character lineup with the existing lineup of big-name characters. It's not laziness, it's an attempt to get representation into your series.

Because here's the thing - as long as you maintain the boys club, all other characters are fundamentally second-string for a really, really long time. It'll take a really, really long time for the fanbase to care about what New-and-interesting Chica is doing when she's fighting on the same team as Thor. And if you don't have any big name characters on the team, it becomes an even harder sell. Sam Wilson is a really great character. When Captain America is in the same story, you care a lot less about him. Solution? Give him that importance by merging the Captain America brand with his own.

It's the same deal here.

Even if you completely removed all the sexism issues, which I haven't even touched, a new character (even if male) is not going to compete against the big names. They just won't. And the problem gets worse, by far, when they're female.

So one option is to create the new character, with her unique back story and character traits, and then you merge her with an existing brand from the boys club. So you get female Thor.

I suspect that at least a big part of that is that they try to make her gender the focus instead of making interesting characters who happen to also be femaile. And there's a part of me that feels like that's what they're doing with Thor. They're making him female to push an agenda instead of to tell a great story. I could be wrong. Maybe they have an idea for a storyline that only works if Thor is a woman and it'll be great. If not...if it flops...they're only going to do more harm than good to the push to bring more equal representation into comics. Everyone will remember how they changed Thor to satisfy a push for social justice and remember how much it sucked and it'll come up every time someone tries to push a female superhero. Better, in my opinion, for new IPs to instead work their way up the ranks slowly(or hell, there are some fairly good IPs that already exist that I would love to see take the spotlight if given the opportunity and marketing). Some will fail and it'll take longer to get some good ones into the public eye, but it'll be better in the long run. More lasting, too. You rush a miracle maker, you get lousy miracles, y'know?

Honestly, I think it might be that it's Thor that's bugging me more than anything. The Captain America change doesn't bother me at all and I don't think it would have bothered me if you'd said that there was going to be a female Cap. Okay, so maybe a Cap hailing from one of the major Anti-US "powers" might not be something I'm ready for, but aside from that, it's a title. If s/he's American and represents the values of America, I'm good. But I've been reading about Thor and Odin since long before I even knew they were also comic book figures. Thor is THOR. You change his identity, you make it just a title...and it loses something(and if I had known that they had done it already as more than a temporary borrowing of the powers, I would have ******* back then too). I suspect that a female Hercules or Zeus would be just as much of an issue for the same reason.

Jesus H. Christo, you aren't even listening to me.

It bothers me that other men became "Thor". It's not the gender. It's not the race. It's the identity of what it means to be Thor. Thor is one individual. To me, it's not a title. It's a ******* name that he was given by his parents. You don't assume his name by getting his powers. You can replace him as god of thunder, wielder of Mjolnir and defender of Asgard, but you can't just be Thor. The fact that Marvel feels differently bugs the **** out of me. It's not sexist to be pissed about something that I would be(and am) pissed about if the change were just a different guy being Thor. That having happened is just as ****** up, but I missed hearing about it.

My gender argument is completely separate to the argument about Thor. It doesn't bother me that Thor is now a woman. It bothers me that Thor is no longer Thor because, again, Thor isn't a ******* title. It's a name. He's an individual person, not a job description. I don't know how to make my feelings on that any clearer. I think you're the one who needs to separate yourself from this.

I may address the gender part of your post later, but I don't have time to do so right now. I really ought to be getting ready for work.

Did I miss something? Because Thor is not what you'd call "Christian".

You wrote two paragraphs.

One is your issues with the idea of the gender, the second goes on to say that you are probably sensitive to the fact because it's Thor, and Thor for you a specific person and any change of identity there is what bothers you.

You WROTE the first paragraph, so you're still committed to it. You said it. Maybe you actually only care about the content of the second paragraph. Maybe nothing from the first paragraph actually matches how you feel, because the only problem you have here is with the Thor not being Thor. Maybe your post was just word ramble until you finally figured out what was actually bothering you.

But since you wrote it, I'm going to assume that the first paragraph actually matches some things you believe, because I'm not a mind reader. And I take serious issue with them.

I am listening to you. But maybe you should actually go back and look at what you said.

[EDIT]


No, that was just my critique of the "IT'S SOCIAL JUSTICE!!!!!" critique that rages in geek culture every time a character is introduced who doesn't match the status quo. There are much. much harsher standards placed on any character when they don't fall into the majority representation. If a Muslim character's religion isn't a big factor in the story, they say they made him/her Muslim just to be PC. If it is a big part, they critique the entire story line as them trying to be PC. Racism, sexism, and pretty much all other forms of social discrimination all tend to face the exact same response.

It's the idea that they have to justify not being a part of that same majority, and it's a really big problem in media representation all over right now. Marvel's comics are actually one of the better places for representation than in most places, but it doesn't stop geek culture from unleashing the same set of micro-aggressions every time.

It gets really tiring, really fast.

Edited, Jul 29th 2014 8:52am by idiggory