icon Cross-Counters  

Auction House: Weapons - Hand-to-Hand

(Hand-to-Hand) All Races
DMG+19 DLY+96
Lv.50 MNK

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# Feb 12 2005 at 4:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Oops. {Please forgive me.}

Edited, Sat Feb 12 05:11:08 2005
Counterattack vs Counter
# Feb 03 2005 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
some one please settle this once and for all what is the difference, i see that Cross-counters are counterattack +5 and the avenger earrings are counter +1 so what is the difference or is there a difference? SE is confusing the hell out of me and i plan to buy these real soon so i would like to know for sure what both do? please help me out.

Edited, Thu Feb 3 04:26:14 2005
RE: Counterattack vs Counter
# Feb 11 2005 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
126 posts
The site has outdated information and an outdated screenshot of the weapon. Cross-counters now say "Counter +5" like all other +counter items.
RE: Counterattack vs Counter
# Feb 15 2005 at 4:48 AM Rating: Default
thank you i have been waiting for an answer and i guess this page dosnt get a lot of traffic

P.S. i finaly got my "Cross-Counters" woo hoo yay me im soo excited these will look real nice with my avenger earrings and counter+2 pants in 2 lvls
Spartan > CC at 58
# Feb 02 2005 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
397 posts
These are better than Spartans taking all things into consideration. They are almost identical, but these are 8 lvls below. And are level 50, so you get to do 50 capped quests/etc with it. You do not get that luxury with Spartans. However, at level 58, Spartans are better taking into consideration WS damage and the acc bonus and delay are almost the same.
RE: Spartan > CC at 58
# Feb 16 2005 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
Spartan Cesti are a good weapon... but I can safely say they are not better than Cross-counters. The Counter +5 is fantastic when you're soloing stuff, people seem to ignore that when they compare the two.
ever consider this...
# Feb 01 2005 at 5:19 PM Rating: Default
Welll i have spartan's these should NOT be used if you have spartan in a PT!!!! but in ballista these things aare GOD!!! i fuc**** own everyone Have Cc's avenger's ect ect then at half hp kick in Counterstance and watch the drk's go bye bye
# Jan 27 2005 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
Alot of people are talking about these, and i dont think anyone hit on the reason that it minuses evasion so that the mob gets a better chance to hit you, and if the mob has a better chance to hit you, you have a better chance to counter. Oh, and to the guy who said the mob can miss and you still counter... i dont think that is true because its NEVER happened to me, my drk subjobs mnk when he solos and having a 250+ damage counter sure helps. I hope this helped someone somewhere :P
RE: Whew...
# Jan 31 2005 at 1:50 PM Rating: Default
264 posts
Afraid you are wrong, counters can occur anytime you are being attacked, hit or miss. May want to go fight some MNK type beastmen for some better insight.
RE: Whew...
# Aug 29 2006 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
actually, you can't counter if you're missed, it just appears that way because you don't take dmg when you counter
# Jan 17 2005 at 3:13 AM Rating: Decent
495 posts
+19 damage available at lvl 50 is just incredible. Today, when I hit lvl 48, I equipped Patas+1 over my mythril knuckles+1, brinign my damge from +10, to +15. There was a VERY noticable increase in damage being done, i'd say at least 25% more than before (even with my str lowered from replacing my purple belt with life belt at the same time).

All I can say is that if in just 2 more levels another +4 (!) damage is added, you'll be giving your tank a very rough time. The price of about 2 million is justified to me, in that you can be just lvl 50 and wear them, most likely allowing you to outdamage a well equiped ranger of equal level. Man, I want these... but in months of farming my TOTAL gil spent on my monk is around 2 million... so doing this all over again seems like a bit too much.

I'll just pick up spartans when I get to that point, they seem almost identical in usefulness ... /sigh, I just won't get to experience those levels of "over powered" where the cross counters are only available.
# Jan 15 2005 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
72 posts
yes, this weapon decreases your Evasion...but the purpose is to increase the probability that your character will counter.
# Jan 06 2005 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
57 posts
Last I checked, they only go for 500k-700k in my server.
RE: Asura
# May 27 2005 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
RE: Asura
# Apr 05 2005 at 2:16 AM Rating: Default
good lord, how times have changed. cross counters are up to 9,000,000G on asura.

RE: Asura
# Mar 02 2006 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
I WISH they were still 500kish. Hell, I wish they were at least 9 mil.
RE: Asura
# Jan 14 2005 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
387 posts
umm... that's crazy O.o

if I saw them at that price in my server, i'd go sell my kotes and get xcounters, even though i'm only at 35 >.<
# Dec 06 2004 at 4:30 AM Rating: Decent
94 posts
I have these, whenever I use counterstance I equip aikido ******* and avengere earrings.. they work very well but the mob has to be atacking you for you to counter, that's why it's called counter. You counter a direct meele atack from a mob. These are badass for tanking vt crabs and **** like that
# Nov 22 2004 at 3:33 AM Rating: Decent
500 posts
sadly they are going for 3-4mil now on seraph...luckily i already had mine ^^
the monk i wish i had they playtime to be:
0.0001% chance i'm ever getting them
# Nov 04 2004 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
1,146 posts
Not that I don't want them, it's just......../sigh
2million gil on Shiva. I've already pumped, let's see, over a million gil into my monk. All things considered, with what I've got and will get, I won't count myself too gimped without these. Probably just get Tact. Mag Hooks and hold out till Spartans, and keep those till I can get the Relic knuckles and upgrade those bad boys to Sphar-whatevers. Maybe Indra Katars too...
RE: 0.0001% chance i'm ever getting them
# Nov 10 2004 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
1,222 posts
Okay, went back to again test whether a mob has to hit you for a counter. Turned off all the filters and watched the log. And, the mob missed and I countered. Now, maybe getting hit increases a counter but from what I have seen in the log, a miss will trigger it also. So, the negative evasion is not necessarily a plus. As far as my Hand Armor, I had the Kote but went with my AF. As had been said in other forums, attack opens the top end of possible damage while strength raises the bottom of the curve. So, I am going to stick with the more consistent lower damage instead of the great spread with highs and lows.

Also, Monk is Damage Over Time, so you really want to try to keep the mob's focus on the Tank. At the level that you can use these, it is much better to keep the hate focused on the Tank who has loads of EQ to take a beating. At level 60, I am going to try a THF sub and see if I can really stick the hate on the tank with SATA.
RE: 0.0001% chance i'm ever getting them
# Oct 23 2005 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
Of course you didn't take any damage because you countered the attack. You can only counter an attack that was going to hit you, it is not something that happens whenthe mob misses you, if it misses you then, it misses... Go fight mandys in the jungle for hours and hours until you figure it out. Check it out, go as a lv 75 MNK to fight too-weak mobs, see how many times he counters, you'll notice its not very mane, because the mob dosnt hit him all that often. Now, if he were to be fighting IT's he would counter quite a bit more often becuase IT will hit on a regular basis, thus improving the chance to counter...
# Nov 02 2004 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
Considering my next job is gonna be Monk, i'll definately be getting some of these. i've heard people compare these to Spartan's, but these are hands down... better by a LONG shot. For starters, you lose 1 damage... big deal... the added accuracy helps a lot more. Whats the point in hitting a little harder if you can't even hit the mob? The - to evasion isn't a big deal because you're not a tank and Dodge pretty much cancels it out... or if you wear Optical Hat (or Emperor Hairpin) it would be cancelled again. The added counter +5 along with Counterstance is very nice for when you potentially yank hate away from a mob.
RE: mmmm
# Jan 12 2005 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
Why do most MNK's want these over Spartan's? Well, the counter+5, right? Or maybe the accuracy up? And Mattelot, the evasion doesn't matter because MNK's don't tank, right? Well if MNK's don't tank, then why does the counter+ help? Since MNK's don't tank, what are they? DD. And since you seem to be a MNK, tell me, what's behind that 1000+ HP? Cloth armor. So that rules out MNK's tanking, so tell me, why does the +counter mattter? It doesn't unless you're soloing. And as for accuracy, all (I think) cesti have accuracy+, and that doesn't exclude Spartan's. So if we're DD's, why would we want counter+? We wouldn't want it. What we MNK's do need is DMG+, which Spartan's beat CC's in.

Hope that helps. I just don't want fellow MNK's spending millions of gil, when Spartan's are better.

Edited, Wed Jan 12 15:10:06 2005
RE: mmmm
# May 28 2005 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
My MNK is lvl 56, why did it become 56? After seeing a MNK out tank a PLD and a NIN i decided to lvl it. Now fighting crabs in the "Cape" I am main tank, and VERY well known on my server... I can be lvling my 18 SAM in the dunes and have ppl that ive never heard of in my life start begging me to EXP my MNK with them. CC + lvl 50 JSE pants + Avengers Earring X2, coupled with O-Kote, Brown Belt and Kung Fu shoes makes me an INSANE tank... I believe that makes a total of Counter+9 I know theres a lot of people "O ya i counter 9/10 times." eh... just not true, but i do counter about 6.5-7/10 times. Yes the counter attacks dont hit for much (only one punch) thats damage the tank (me) is not taking... As far as hate control goes... well... are you kidding me? true, MNK's dont do well on crabs, however what Melee job really does? With the gear that I have i do more than enough damage to hold hate w/o even needing to voke every 30 seconds. A well equiped MNK can and does outdamage almost everyone with the exception of a well equiped RNG. As far as a mob needing to hit you to counter goes, this is also true... When fighting IT's like i said average counter rate is 6.5-7/10 but when fighting EP or DC mobs solo wearing the same gear, my counter rate drops to 3/10 or so... After some long thought and a few mins with a calculator i realized wow i counter the same per hits taken. So if you change it around a bit and dont count total attacks, but count landed attacks from an enemy this is the end ratio 6.66/10 that goes for EP all the way to IT mobs... Check it out for urselves... The mob DOES have to hit you for you to be able to make a counter attack. Nevertheless when hit, and countered you take 0 damage... Therefore the Evasion - on not only the CC but the Evasion down from the O-Kote which is HORRIBLY damaging to ninja is actually a + to us counter tanks... Just a little bit of my input any questions feel free to send me a message, if you like what you see rate up, if not rate down lol i dont care about ratings.... out
RE: mmmm
# Jan 30 2005 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
The + to Counter helps because hard hitting DDs sometimes pull hate off mobs. As a Monk, if you happen to yank hate off the mob by ending a SC for massive damage, your odds of countering any potential blows is increased. As a Ranger, high damage WSs do tend to yank hate off the tank... I know my Sidewinder and Slug Shots have :) If you're a well equipped Monk, a hard hitting Raging Fists or Asuran Fists might give you the hate and when it does, you're gonna be glad you have that extra + to counter.

I'm not saying Spartan Cesti are not good because they're a great alternative, but as for DOT, CC will give you a more useful effect. You can use CC 8 lvls sooner... some might thing "oh big freaking deal... 8 lvls..." but the stronger the weapon and sooner you can use it... statistically increases your speed at exp. I've spoken to many high lvl Mnks and they all tell me that CC ARE better than Spartan, but if you cannot afford them, Spartan are your 2nd best choice.

Edited, Sun Jan 30 05:08:20 2005
RE: mmmm
# Jan 21 2005 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
Well not to step on your monologue but at and around level 60 mnks become every job but healer. We are used to tank skeletons in King Ronpaurres tomb. Because we can counter we get hit less so we don't need as much healing. Also at this level Monks begin to sub Whm for the mnd boost for their Chi Blasts. I have heard of parties that consist of, Mnk/War Mnk/Whm Mnk/Whm Mnk/War(Sam-for tp) Rdm and Brd. So tell me again how we don't tank. Make sure you know what you are talking about before you freak out.
RE: mmmm
# Feb 16 2005 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
From experience, nobody is gonna sub Whm on their Mnk in an exp party. What for?... for a stronger Chi Blast?.. thats once every few minutes. Being in an HNMLS, this is a good thing to do when fighting Gods, but in exp parties, you'll want the Warrior sub because of fact that you're gonna be punching more than Chi Blasting.

Some people think that Mnks can tank things, if you've got plenty in your party and you're fighting Bones, do as you wish, but you're not going to be fighting Bones your entire career as Mnk. Monks have high Vitality and HP which are great because a well equipped Monk can take hate from the tank. Adding on the Counter, they can counter any blows they might endure while they have the hate for said amount of time. Monk is just a very balanced and well designed job but they lack the variety of hate keeping skills that Paladin and Ninja (post lvl 40) have to be a dedicated tanking job.
RE: mmmm
# Mar 01 2005 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
Well i agree 100% about the Whm sub for Mnk in xp party. That just doesnt sound smart. But a Mnk that spams boost during down time starts the fight with chi blast and continues to use boost every 15 sec for the entire fight can hold hate just about as well as any one. And if you alternate focus and dodge every fight then throw in a chakra every 5 min you pull alot of hate. As a mnk the damage you do should pretty much compansate for the amount of healing a Pld can do at the same lvl. Im a lvl 42 Mnk atm on odin server but my last galka was a 64 Mnk and i can keep hate from a Whm, Blm or Smn, and a Rdm 90% of the time and i only say 90% because of extreme cases where all 3 mages might have to spam spells at once.
RE: mmmm
# Jan 04 2005 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
2,604 posts
ACTUALLY, these two where compaired... these pulled out in the end by the slimest of margins.

We Monks want these because oof Counter +5 (thus making countertanking even easier) NOT because they are the be all end all.... there are weapons even better than these. But you have to be a 75 to get those.
Someday ...
# Sep 30 2004 at 12:07 AM Rating: Excellent
30 posts
I swear I'll get these someday ... Give me 1 more year of playing FFXI ...lol
# Sep 27 2004 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
936 posts
It is -10 evasion, and with good reason if you've read. I have countered multiple stray hits, i don't know if that qualifies the mob facing me or not. Combine these with Ochiudo's Kote (eva-5, attack+20) and say hello to some good times
# Sep 10 2004 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
lv. 68 ninja solo. (if paying attention)
68 ninja w/mage
A question and (cheap monk?)
# Sep 03 2004 at 9:44 AM Rating: Default
Ok weve established that for counter to work you must be facing your opponent, these weapons rock if not just for the damage they put out, then for that plus counter rate and increased accuracy. Now something that is not addressed here that Im still interested in knowing how anyone (preferably a monk, would be nice to earn it with the job that would benefit most from it) is able to effectively hunt this monster (i.e. min xp level, in a alliance, party, solo? what jobs are reccomended for party tactics against this nm. what tactics do you use? etc.)

Its obvious some people have hunted this successfully, so there is a way to beat it, but it would be nice to know how and when to face it so you dont end up lying face down or up.

Plenty of posts about how great this weapon is. can we maybe come up with a plan on how to get this from the nm itself? dont know about you but even the best price listed on this (1.4 million recently) is still outrageous considering until then everything else can easily be quested (aka free) to outfit a monk effectively. if it wasnt for this one weapon monk could go through almost all of its levels effectively for less then 600k gil and thats including leveling its subjob (which actually would be the more exspensive of the two to keep equipped). Now I know that sounds insane to say but its true, at least for elvaan monks (who even storyline wise are the most common type of monk out there). RSE is easily quested and gets jeuno fame and will serve faithfully as armor until the forties (right around the time you get counterstance). Some weapons that help counterrate start becoming available than too (avenger earrings (125-145 k at ah, OR dropped by a level 46 nm morbol named anemone that spawns in the part of eldieme necropolis that skull of sloth, puroburos, and gazers spawn in at too), kampfer ring (goes for 2k at ah, though this one is latent effect, so only use in emergency), Since actual armor defense is useless when in countermode you are just working off of stat boosts given from your equip, and rse is still nice here too. Not necessarily the best but still nice (some extra hp, some plus agility, +10 dex, and for anyone who uses a subjob that uses mp (i.e. rdm, pally, drk, or whm) this also adds roughly 60 mp, which you would likely be using these subs more often soloing then in party). You might also start looking at brown belt and life belt around this time which yes are a notable 300k each roughly at the ah. But there is a quest for brown belt (which you need to do anyway if you ever want to have black belt) that requires just doing the purple belt quest in bastok (going rate for purple belt is bout 7k on my server) and 10 k worth of zinc ore to unlock the quest. While going after the nms for this you will easily make back the gil you spent to unlock the quest in the first place. Now for those after life belt, there is a strategy given elsewhere on this website as to getting that for free also. Thus you are easily able to make it into the fifties for the amount of gil it took to get you to the low thirties. Once you get into the fifties your af gear starts becoming available in full, and the ONLY way to get that is to have it quested for in the first place. Once you get full af the possibility of taking a hit normally again reenters the realm of the possible, though by then, if you bothered using counterstance at all since you got it, you will probably be addicted to how it helps you put a target down faster while avoiding a notable amount of damage (even with only one earring you still get a nice counterrate, just be careful with it on iceday and darksday (still checking to see if the moon has any effects on this power)). Since the af also adds to counter and has incredible boosts and enhance effects, you can switch between countermode and non-countermode as the situation dictates, as this gear will help on that either way. Since af gear is quested only, most gil you will have spent by this point is more for your sub job then your main job (maybe 50 k tops on main for stealth items if using a sub that doesnt have it available, and those subs do cost more to maintain, are less durable, and usually dont hit as hard in the first place). Other than that crosscounters remains among or the best weapon a monk can have until they are in the seventies, and the only one that is outrageously priced out of all the equipment that is available thats even mentioned here if you arent willing to quest for the stuff. Until those are actually available most monks buy a set of tactical magician hooks (20 k gil there, or buyable from conquest points if you bother with missions for rank at all and your country is doing well), so still quite cheap but also still effective, just pales to what monks with crosscounters can do. Beyond that there is other gear that are possible upgrades. but they too are mostly quested if you are after them at all.

As is, at the time of this posting I am a level 55 monk and have hunted down the anemone twice (though its not a perfect drop rate, so if you can track it bring a thief friend along too), completed the brownbelt quest, all rse, and all af quests except the leg af armor one, which requires targeting a monster thats on par with the western shadow for strength. If possible I hope to convince those that help with that leg af nm battle to help face western shadow once I can track down the timing of its spawn in. Which brings us back to my original question.

Again, any helpful hints and tips on strategies for western shadow (which drops these crosscounters)? It would be great to know this info before facing it and not lying face up later.

(total price for equipping a monk if going by ah 789k gil if skipping crosscounters, 2,189k if not skipping but buying everything from ah, 1.4 million if you quest your gear except crosscounters, free if you get get the drops and quest done for it all)

Edited, Fri Sep 3 11:28:16 2004
RE: A question and (cheap monk?)
# May 29 2005 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
Dude, posts like this REALLY **** me off... YES you can get MNK to 75 on 600K, but why the f*ck would you want to? give me a break dude, a lot of people complain about not being able to get a PT as a mnk NO SH*T you retards if your equiping yourself like this dude wants you to you'll be lucky to get a weekly invite... Your the reason its hard for good MNK's to get a decent PT... MNK is an EXTREMELY equipment oriented job, WHM can skimp by and do just fine, BLM can do the same, i would know i have both over 50... MNK's however, if not well equiped are absolutly USELESS to a PT, but when well equiped with the exception of RNG's they are the best DD's in the game... Please if you have another case of sh*t flying out of your mouth take it to the toilet and keep it off Alla... Not only for my sake, but yours too... out
RE: A question and (cheap monk?)
# Jun 30 2005 at 3:57 AM Rating: Decent
10,815 posts
the general idea of this post is right on. i had trouble getting parties 50-60s (so i just made my own), but you know monks are going to have even more trouble if all people see is broke-*** punks shaming the job. still, if this argument is about cross-counters, they're hardly necessary to be a big dd force in 50-58 xp parties. after all, the reason we have trouble with invites isn't low dmg, it's lack of sc capability. i stole my share of hate with tm hooks+1 (still do at 60). once i get about 800k more gil, i'll steal some more hate with spartans. and yes, i've spent well over 600k already, as should have any monk at this level.

all that said, if you can get cross-counters at 50, of course do it! more dd the better. also, the best point i've read here regarding spartans vs cc is the one about level caps (and ballista, but stuff like that and soloing should be obvious). finally, you know cross-counters look cooler than a pair of punk cesti.
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
RE: A question and (cheap monk?)
# Apr 30 2007 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
10,815 posts
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
RE: A question and (cheap monk?)
# Oct 28 2004 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
609 posts
are you on crack? quest a purple belt at lvl 18. quest a brown belt at 40... no go ahead, it'll be easy ><
something annoyin
# Aug 21 2004 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
there is this guy on my LS on Phoenix that like hunts these all day >.<, i think he has sold at least 5 or more in a row on the price history
they only sell for around 1.5 mil on this server so its a lil easier to get em here ^^
# Aug 18 2004 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default

Edited, Wed Aug 18 13:30:39 2004
I wish with all my might
# Aug 15 2004 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
These have been a thorn in my side. 2mil in Midgardsormr, and a NM that I don't stand a chance at getting to til I'm level 75 (NM would still be a pain then given its undead). It seems the this would be a ways away for me unless I can farm enough tiger fangs for gil. But thus far, it seems to be the best H2H that I could use while soloing. ;_;
# Jul 23 2004 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
514 posts
I dunno, 1 less damage than the Spartan Cesti doesn't seem like something I'd miss.

But sheesh, I'd pair this with Counterstance, and anything else that can increase my Counter and lower my Evasion. If there was more equipment like this, Monks could go back to backup tanks! Just get some really high DEF armor (scarce for us), and you're set...
best h2h weapons
# Jul 21 2004 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
56 posts
I have those Knuckles since lvl 55 and i tried spartan cesti too. These do a lot more dmg in party and solo-play than cesti because you counter really often and i have a feeling that +19 seems not right, it seems a little bit more... but anyway, they are worth the 1.9 mio gil i payed for.

vs. Spartans
# Jun 16 2004 at 10:29 AM Rating: Default
I like the spartans more for PT's... these would rock solo though.
#1 knuckles
# Jun 09 2004 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
this is the strongest HTH weapon u can get in this whole god dam game cuz of the damage +19 and that evasion drops by 10 means that it makes u more vulnerable to an attack so that u can get hit more so the more often u get hit the more u counter and this is one of the most CRAZIEST HTH weapon i want these....

Bahamut server is #1 BABY!!! Watch out for the Purple hats
RE: #1 knuckles
# Sep 26 2004 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
104 posts
well, second best. the best is, without a doubt, the Spharai, which for all of you who don't know about the relic weapons is the final upgraded form of the relic knuckles. it does 23 damage for 86 delay, gives attack +20, enhances "counter" effect, and gives you the weapon skill "Final Heaven." but they're practically impossible to get, so until you've been lvl 75 for months and you've spent weeks at a time in dynamis, stick with these because there's a slim chance that that day will come, and besides these are good enough anyway! ^^

edit: i didn't grammar well, now me fix!

Edited, Sun Sep 26 23:44:12 2004
# May 17 2004 at 2:54 PM Rating: Default
Lets not forget its tons of damage, so who cares about the -10 evasion. The nest weapon you could get before this is patas +1, and thats 15 damage, i mean, this is great damage.
# Mar 24 2004 at 10:30 PM Rating: Default
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