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Toreador's Cape
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DEF:7 Evasion+9
Enmity+4
Lv.72 All Jobs
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hmmm
# Dec 25 2006 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
hmmm...is this worth the gil? Cause i have a Boxers Mantle for my Nin.


http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?164482 >Nin< http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?164485 >Rng<
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?164486 >Rdm< http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?163926 >Thf<

Edited, Dec 25th 2006 9:05pm by evildarkangel
hmmm
# Jan 02 2007 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
Yes it is, but boxers is better so u dont need it i guess ^^
PLD
# Dec 18 2006 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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1,416 posts
I bought these without knowing about the hidden effect. I was window shopping after dinging 73PLD and was shocked I hadn't noticed these before (it's been awhile since I leveled PLD btw). They are currently going for 400K on my server.

I get out to the Mire and immediately I notice I am taking alot more damage than usual. Seriously.. when flys in the mire start to crit you for damn near 100+, and more often at that, you take notice fast. It was the first time I had partied in this section of the Mire as PLD, so I figured the mobs at this location (near zone to the reef) were one or two levels higher. Having only one mage (WHM), I immediately adjusted by equipping my Parade Gorget and keeping defender up.

With gorget, auto refresh and sanction, I was at 3MP/tick. I had a COR/NIN in my PT and was getting an occasional 4/5 MP a tick. I must say that between the enmity on this piece and the constant curing I had to do, keeping hate was pretty much the same. If there were adds though, I was quickly in the orange or red and became more of an MP sink than just a partial drain.

PLD evades like a brick wall tied to another brick wall and +9 is not enough to make a noticable change. This might not be a bad macro piece for PLD/NIN (since you have shadows to negate the crits at times), but as PLD/WAR I would say to stay away from this piece. I think +4 Enmity =/= to the hate lost from 2-3 crits in a row you may take during that time.

is not that bad
# Dec 17 2006 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
K i completly agree the hidden effect suxs i got 3/4 criticals when its equiped BUT (i have to say this)>>> i found that i dont need to equip full attack gear to tank succesfully with cape equiped... modified macros and it unequips everytime im casting utsusemi and re-equip 10 secs later so avoid criticals if im interrrupted, plus i equiped another eva stuff like scouters rope, ohat, SH, and i found that this is a very very easy way to tank. you can keep the hate better and since u have eva gear u dont take too many hits so u save some ninja-tools. u not doing too much dammage but u dont have to stop to cast ni or ichi every 20 seconds so u hit consistently and u still keep the hate... its a very nice cape in my opinion, of course boxers mantle is better but if u cant afford that, this one is nice, another point>> at 75 u dont need eva gear hmmm....that depends on situation u need to keep balance when tanking if u full equip attack gear u will lost shadows often, even if ur eva skill is 304 the point is to equip the necesary eva gear to tank "decently" and att gear to make kills faster and keeping hate, and u can macro full dex-str gear for jins...however if u killing toughs u can equip more attack gear it depends on situation.... this is my point of view, i know some ppl could disagree but is only my way to play and it works for me. (of course this applies to pty situations i never use the cape for fighting gods or high nms lol)
conclusion:
the cape hidden effect suxs BUT it can be used for a nin if u are carefull and know how to play

Edited, Dec 17th 2006 3:30pm by macloud
lol
# Oct 06 2006 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
who cares.... toreadors cape sells for 2mil on hades
listen up.
# Sep 13 2006 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
Hello All. I am 75 Nin so please hear me out. I read the first few posts of you people saying its a good cape blah blah. I stopped reading after the second or third because its nonsense. I used this cape for three full levels NOT KNOWING about the hidden effect because i saw the eva and emnity and Im like WOW, definetly worth 1m. By the Time I was 75 I thought there was something drastically wrong with my chars enemy crit rate. Some people on here are saying its 30%? HELL NO my friends, its upwards of 60%, in some cases 4 crits in a row, and although I am galka, that is very dangerous. Think about it this way. Even the best nins will take a couple hits during an exp pt. If its a normal hit, you may be able to not get interupted. If its a crit, your hp goes down alot and you will be interupted, so you must attempt to recast AGAIN, and if the next hit is a crit? theres a good 35+% of your hp gone. This leads to your healer having to heal you, and that leads to what? Thats right, you not keeping hate as well. So there goes the whole point of the +4 emnity. And boys and girls Im not lying, its at LEAST +50% enemy crit rate. I asked my buddy whos also 75Nin why he uses a corse cape when toreaders is much better, and he says "no its not.. that **** gives the enemy TONS of crits on you.." Well i FLIPPED out lol. I has finally realized that my char wasnt messed up, it was the damn cape. So i sold at and have just been using amemet, A lvl 75 nin doesnt need that extra eva, Get a boxer's Mantle when you can because evasion SKILL actually makes a difference. In conclusion, seriously I hope people check this post before buying the cape, and take this into consideration, I didnt die much because of the cape, but i came close ALOT, and that doesnt lead to good tanking my friends, you arent supposed to taking alot of dmg. I aggree with the one person that said it would be good for thf.

Good hunting fellas.
Good for THF only.
# May 26 2006 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
This cape is for THF, bottom line. Swapping for provoke is kind of a waste since the cape doesn't come cheap, at least on my server. The 30% increase for an enemy critical hit makes this thing a nin and pld's worst enemy. Great for THF in exp pty's tho.
Good for THF only.
# Jul 30 2006 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
40 posts
thats BS when you say its not worth it for ninjas, i mean hell man, in a halfway decent exp party i dont get hit enough for the critical hit bonus to even be shown. If you see me wearing my amemet mantel it means the party im in sucks. If you find yourself getting pwned by critical hits, maybe you should switch jobs and stop making the rest of us ninjas look so bad.
Good for THF only.
# Aug 23 2008 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
The party has nothing to do with YOU being hit. So... yeah....... guess you're in a lot of bad parties eh?
beh
# Apr 30 2006 at 9:40 PM Rating: Default
beh
thf hax
# Apr 07 2006 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
yea i just bought this last night, i cant wait to try it out in an xp situation. Ill probably swap it in and out wiht amemet, but none the less, better for nin tanks tbh
My 2 cents
# Mar 22 2006 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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147 posts
Boxers' Mantle > Toredors' Cape imo.
RE: My 2 cents
# Apr 02 2006 at 3:54 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
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1,983 posts
Haha, duh...
____________________________
Shamaya, Asura
:D
# Mar 02 2006 at 7:54 AM Rating: Default
this has to one of the best capes nin could get for tanking, eva + and enmity +, but for god and hnm were ur not tanking the aminet mantel would be best
RE: :D
# Mar 05 2006 at 11:56 PM Rating: Decent
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1,252 posts
This also has a hidden effect that dramatically increases mobs chance to crit hit you... like A LOT lol :D
Tutelary
# Dec 22 2005 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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71 posts
Tutelary is the sword that counters the crit increase. You would have to be a fool to use this cloak without Tutelary.

But if you have that sword, this is a good cloak.
Tutelary
# Oct 29 2008 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
THERE IS NO HIDDEN EFFECT

The idea that this negates Toreador Cape's Hidden "Get Horribly Gored" effect is without basis & is misinformation. Dunno where it started. A friend of mine who has a Tutelary bought a Toreador's Cape and refuted it 100%.
'Evening, Ms. Information.
# Oct 29 2008 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
THERE IS NO HIDDEN EFFECT

The idea that this negates Toreador Cape's Hidden "Get Horribly Gored" effect is without basis & is misinformation. Dunno where it started. People who have both have refuted it.
RE: Tutelary
# Feb 25 2006 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
This is a Cape, Not a Cloak.
RE: Tutelary
# Feb 17 2006 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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449 posts
Quote:
Tutelary is the sword that counters the crit increase. You would have to be a fool to use this cloak without Tutelary.


Have you tested this? How do you know?
Found out the hard way.
# Dec 14 2005 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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133 posts
So i got this cape the other day seeing that im a 75 pld and currently lvlin nin, so figure it will be useful for both jobs....

Guess i know why most nins use that course cape (with no enm and like 2 less eva).

I'll tell you that this thing sucks for pld, maybe only good to macro in for voke or something if you want some more enm, othwise be ready to take the beating of your life.
Toreadors Cape
# Jun 09 2005 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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84 posts
I'm 73 NIN and use this cape all the time. I simply make a macro to switch it out with Amemet till I can get shadows back up. I wear this to tank everything even gods and NM's who specifically have moves that ignore shadows. I notice no difference in things like fang rush goblin rush etc. They all seem to do around the same damage regardless of wearing the cape or not. The only thing it does seem to affect is the critical hit rate on you concerning normal melee attacks. I tested the crit theory out on in valk dunes. On a mob that should get very very little criticals if any on you being level 73. A level 11-14 Hare can crit on me like 10 out of 20 hits sometimes more sometimes less.(Very freaking annoying as you basically have to pray the thing hits you.) There is no doubt this ups crit rate on you. It is still a nice cape none the less. Its the highest evasion cape you can get and has some nice Enmity to boot. If you plan on wearing this for anything major make a swap macro for a different cape or just no cape at all or you will most likely die when shadows fall.
RE: Toreadors Cape
# Aug 27 2005 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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63 posts
This is an observation to be, but it seems the more a mob misses you, the higher it's critical hit rate is on the next succesful hit. I think that when the hit rate is rolled, first it roll according to your accuracy, then by the opponents evasion. So, say for instance that the mob passes the accuracy roll, but fails the evasion roll and misses. When that happens, I believe it gives a boost to critical rateon the next hit. I've noticed this a lot when leveling THF. Usually, I would almost always critical hit after missing. So my theory is that this cape makes the mob miss more, but since it is missing the evasion roll and passing the accuracy roll, it gains repeated boosts to it's critical hit rate, and therefor, causing more critical hits.

Anyway, just another theory.
RE: Toreadors Cape
# Jun 22 2005 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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53 posts
This is only a theory but suppose that when a mob attacks, a random number between 1 and 100 is chosen. 1-90 are normal hits, and 91-100 are critical hits. Now, once a number is selected, a number representing your evasion total is subtracted from the number. If n < 0 the mob misses. If n > 0 the mob hits for the predetermined amount. So, assuming that your evasion number is 80, the only randomly selected numbers resulting in a hit would be in the range of 81-100, half of which would result in criticals. And now you ask, then why do high level mobs hit more often when the number would supposedly be random, meaning all mobs would have the same chance of hitting you. Well, the higher the level of mob the higher the lowest value would become. A level 1 creature would have a range of 1-100, where as a higher level mob might be a range of 50-100 meaning that any number below 50 would result in a reroll until it landed within the target range. Just a hardly thought out theory.
RE: Toreadors Cape
# Aug 08 2005 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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137 posts
Some games may use a formula like that. But, I doubt FFXI uses function that simple. It's not just evade, hit, or crit, the uses evasion, parrying, shielding, guarding, blink and checks all of these before you actually take dmg. Chances are is that they would have formulas to check each and everyone of these options, and people have tested and found out there is a pattern in which these are checked and that guarding is appearently last(which is why it's so hard for MNKs to lvl it). I don't know what they did to comfirm this, or who they are, sorry, just some info I learned from the MNK forums.

But, they might actually use a formula similar to what you suggested in the specific case to checking if the monster crits. But, I don't think the evasion is in the same formula.

But, even still, not a bad theory.
RE: Toreadors Cape
# Oct 10 2005 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
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71 posts
lol, to speculate what the formula might be... geez... I play this game a lot, and I don't bother myself with trivial matters such as these...

but anyways... I tested this out on exp mobs, quadavs in palborough mines, and pretty much everything that I can fight since it's the cape I primarily use except for WS.

The results: this thing adds to the amount of crit hits that you take by a large margin. Even with a ton of AGI boost, I still get crit hit like almost 1/3 to 1/2 the times I get hit. And that's with every monster, not just exp mobs, every mob out there. So, it isn't a matter of monsters getting a boost to crit hit chance (which is affected primarily by your dex vs the monster agi) just because you evaded an attack. Regardless of how much evasion you have, you aren't going to evade IT mobs THAT much and aura statues were crit hitting me just about every time I left the cape on while shadows were down.

In conclusion: crit hit rate is definitely there, and it's definitely really noticeable. However, this is an amazing cape that I'd recommend everyone to get. The +4 enmity is great and having the evasion boost is nice too. Like the previous poster said, just macro it out for amemit or foragers when shadows are down, get your shadows back up, and put your cape back on.... now beating the monster that drops it... well, that's a whole other story... check out some pics under the general forums @ www.xenowarriors.com/omnipresence Drace posted some really good after pics to give you an idea of what you are up against lol
RE: Toreadors Cape
# Sep 22 2005 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
By the way, if anyone is curious, I'm sure its for any job, but the lvling of such skills goes this way.
Evasion > Shield > Parrying > Guarding
Shadows go only if the mob wins the "roll" on the hit, there are however sometimes when you have a shadow up and it hits you anyways.
#REDACTED, Posted: Aug 02 2005 at 11:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wow...that acctually sounds like a formula that they might use. rate up ^_^
do tell...
# Jun 07 2005 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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449 posts
Quote:
There's also a sword that goes with this cape that counters the +crit stat.


You drop a bomb like that and don't tell us what sword and/or how you figured that out?
The Secret is...
# Jun 06 2005 at 8:47 AM Rating: Default
There's also a sword that goes with this cape that counters the +crit stat.
Bullfighters.
# May 19 2005 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, Toreadors are bullfighters. Bullfighting is a high-risk job, a single gore can potentially land you in the hospital. Judging from the color and apparent name of this item, it is the very made-famous red cape in cartoons where the bullfighter would shout, "Toro, toro!!!"

Obviously, since this invites something to charge at you (In the case of real life, a bull), it will increase your enmity, evasion (Since it's a good idea to dodge the bull when it comes charging at you), and critical hits taken, because a single gore from a bull can and will be fatal.
RE: Bullfighters.
# May 22 2005 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
This is a very good piece for thf/nin combinations.

Now you can swap it after a pull and before you do SATA onto your tank for even more hate control. Or if you have shadows up you can always wear this cape. If you have high marksmanship and hit the mob while wearing this cape you'll have a ton of enmity. Then transfer the hate to the tank with SATA. Hate does add up and when you transfer it via SATA you lose it like a DRG does doing super jump.

I suppose some people see this cape as being worthless for even solo play. I don't believe so because of the high evasion. If your evasion is already maxed, and you have items like optical hat and scorpion harness. You will have 29 plus evasion. Top that off with Thf's getting evasion bonuses, you will barely get hit. It protects you to keep casting Shadows at will when the timer is up.

The only time I wouldn't recommend this cape is if you are Thf/war or during Ballista because it is too hard to keep shadows up while multiple people are targeting you.

This item is perfect for anybody that has mastered thf/nin and shadow control.
RE: Bullfighters.
# Oct 10 2005 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
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586 posts
It would be very nice for a thief to have, but your trick attack example is incorrect. Trick attack doesn't shift hate from the thief to the trick partner. It just makes the attack count for the trick partner's hate instead of the thief's.

Example using 1 "enmity point" gained per 10 damage done (highly hypothetical and only for demonstration):

THF has done a total of 400 damage and has 40 enmity points so far in fight.

PLD has done 200 damage for 20 enmity points, plus provokes and spells for another 40 enmity points (60 total).

THF does TA+dancing edge on PLD for 400 damage (40 points). Now THF still has 40 enmity points, but PLD has 100 enmity points. It wouldn't give all the THF's enmity to the PLD, just the enmity from that one trick attack.
RE: Bullfighters.
# May 22 2005 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
I think one thing you are neglecting is AoE and Pierce-Through-Shadow moves. With this cape on, it will make those enemy WSs critical often- and if they are multi-hit, you are pretty much screwed.

It's nice for the Enmity is all, is what I personally think.
More like good THF gear
# May 18 2005 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
49 posts
I don't know. If it raises the Critical Hit rate from 50% to 75% (taking criticals), I'd think a THF would be better suited for this since. All that hate placed on the tank with a TA and little fear of getting smacked for a critical.

Edited, Wed May 18 20:54:39 2005
Hidden Effect
# May 18 2005 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,853 posts
Has Hidden Effect: Increases Amount Of Critical Hits Taken.
RE: Hidden Effect
# May 18 2005 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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945 posts
Any sources or tests done to back this up?
RE: Hidden Effect
# May 18 2005 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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1,853 posts
http://ffxi.cannotlinkto/itemdb/6819

It Was Discovered a Few Weeks Ago, A Japanese Found It Increased The Critical Hit Rate to 50% to 75%, Which is far too much for a tank to take ^^; Plus, Ive Done Tests In Game With Friends lol
RE: Hidden Effect
# May 18 2005 at 11:10 PM Rating: Default
First off, critical hits are not done at a set rate, but rather are calculated to happen randomly when your dex+attack-mob defense+ random number generated in regard to attack > critical target number. So how exactly do these tests work? There is not a way you could test this item thoroughly enough to call it anything other than random chance. You don't have the required numbers.
RE: Hidden Effect
# May 18 2005 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
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242 posts
A mob normally never criticals u 50-75% of the time. If u put this cape on and it, the mob starts getting crits every other hit, thats as much of a test as u need. Its not just random when everyone that puts this cape on gets crit'd every other hit.
good nin gear
# May 18 2005 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
wow, this must be great for nin.
RE: good nin gear
# May 19 2005 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
the fact that this cape boosts the mobs critical hit rate against you would actually make it terrible for something like a nin, cause, even the best nin WILL get hit. no matter how good his shadow stacking skills are. this is most likely made for thf, because a SATA with this on would give an incredible amount of hate to the tank, and since nin can have a really tough time keeping hate if the party doesnt know what its doing (i.e. nuking mob with spells from the begining of the fight etc) it would in turn be a great boon to tanking jobs.

Edited, Thu May 19 12:24:11 2005
RE: good nin gear
# Jul 25 2005 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
no matter how good his shadow stacking skills are.


wtf
no such thing.. lol
RE: good nin gear
# Dec 18 2005 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
"Shadow stacking" usually refers to casting another utsu just before you lose your last shadow, so in theory you won't get hit if you use both Utsusemi : Ichi and Ni. In practice, as the previous poster said, you're going to get hit sometimes. Given NIN's unimpressive VIT and HP, a multihit attack by a mob with multiple criticals can down a NIN fast.
RE: good nin gear
# May 18 2005 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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103 posts
I would have to say this would be strictly for the tanking jobs, nin being one of the most popular. As a whm I think I might want to avoid this one though. Looks cool.
RE: good nin gear
# May 18 2005 at 8:06 PM Rating: Excellent
**
722 posts
Actually this would be awesome for THF. Mostly for soloing, but Enmity+4 would also be good for SATA, since it would place more hate on the tank. It would also be good for a soloing RDM. After all, Enmity is kinda a moot point when you're soloing, unless you've got a pet.

Edited, Wed May 18 21:07:06 2005
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