Active Ability details for Sneak Attack  

Jobs/Level:Thief, lvl 15
MP cost:0
Reuse:1 Minute
Cast time:Instant
Target Type:Single
Description:A powerful blow to the enemy. This can be used before combat is initiated, or during battle, but only when you are directly behind the enemy.

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Gear swaps?
# Aug 29 2007 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
354 posts
I'm not expecting this to be answered amytime soon, given the last post was a year ago.. but, is it possible to equip Dex gear, use SA, and have the bonus remain exactly the same, allowing for acc, attack, etc? Or is it reduced if the Dex+ is removed? I'd assume the answer is right in front of my nose, but I can't seem to see it <_<; apologies, /em beats the dead horse.

[Rabbit] [Seafood Dishes] [Help me out!] [I don't feel well.]
Gear swaps?
# Mar 31 2009 at 4:13 AM Rating: Decent
Its a bit late but here goes >.>

No, you wont keep any damage bonus, I tested it with thf45/nin.

Also you lose any bonus to hit rate when you swap your equipment out (2dex = +1 acc)

Also having thf as a sub doesnt nerf Sneak Attack currently 43drg/21thf.

I use alot of +dex gear over +str, i get 42+10 str 50+12 dex, war sub only gives a few extra str, and mainly gives +vit, i get more HP from /thf (how) and my dex also has an extra boost from race (mithra) i usually hit double damage with Sneak attack and 1.5X damage on a 100%TP double thrust. I eagerly away pentra thrust because it has a +20% str +dex% dex mod, which is around 15 extra dex (by time i get it)

Also when you put into account you can jump/high/super to remove hate, it makes drg/thf effective for a good amount of lvs, untill 60, where you can SATA or go /sam for lots of damge.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 8:17am by xazurex
# May 23 2006 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
yes i agree that at low lvls thf SATA has good dmg and may be gimped when you sub thf at those lvls, but when drk gets to lvl66 thf becomes a nice subjob for drk doing anywere from 1k somtime 2k while ending or starting light skillchains.
# May 13 2005 at 8:44 PM Rating: Default
... the stupid thing is, why would they make Sneak attack affected by dex? should have ben switched SA-agi and Ta-dex, i mean agility has an affect on your personal sneakyness hahah jk, i was just woundering why a creator would not have switched the stat bonuses on your attacks.
# May 03 2005 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
Ok well im a 38 thf/mnk and I see alot of posts from lower level ths's or people with thf sub and I thought, as a profesional thf I should say somthing.. lol

I'm doning SATA and SATAWS in the garl..citadel (sp) on siege bats. I think there IT or T (we were going fast for chains) my STAT was doing 250+ and my SATAws (viperbite) was doing close to 375+

and i would just like to say, if you think your thf is getting ****** by trying to set up a certain formation to do there SATA. Dont there just trying to do the most damage they can and by the low 30's any tank should understant the formation. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is that at lv.36 you have to explain how to set up for SATA!!

umm im dont ranting now. That is all good day.

Sneak attack video
# Dec 27 2004 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good

It's a video of Sneak attack in action with
Dancing Edge doing around 2k dmg. You'll need
divx to view the video
Damage Comparison
# Oct 18 2004 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
46 posts
First off, Iceflint, Dex affects Sneak Attack while Agl affects Trick Attack.

Secondly, SA does get gimped when subbed. I know this because in a PT in Gustav Mines there was a Drk with Thf Subbed. They had quite a bit of + Dex items on and hit pretty hard normally on the gobs.
We were both of equal lvl. Now, I was doing about 150 to a Gob with SA by itself. The Drk was doing about the same with SA + Slice. I add in Viper Bite and my 150 goes up to 250, throw in TA and I'm doing about 400+.
So yeah, Sneak Attack's effectiveness drops to that of a critical hit when thf is subbed. Not saying it's not good, but it doesn't beat a real Thf.
RE: Damage Comparison
# Nov 07 2004 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
915 posts
I've heard that SATA really sucks on any 2-handed weapon, so it might not just be the fact that it was from the sub, but rather that the DRK was using a Scythe.
RE: Damage Comparison
# Nov 08 2004 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
46 posts
No, it does get gimped with just being subbed. I've seen a few people using one handed weapons with Thf sub using their WS with SA and still hitting weakly.

I've heard Sturmwind and Guillotine work well with it, but until I run an experiment on damage comparisons to normal as opposed to with SA or someone who's done the experiment themselves tells me so. I'll find that hard to believe.
RE: Damage Comparison
# Oct 04 2005 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
SA is gimped if thf is used as a sub because when a lvl war30/thf15 uses SA it is treating the SA as a lvl 15 thfs SA. DEX will still help in increaceing damage just not as much.
RE: Damage Comparison
# Feb 09 2005 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
It does seem that it is gimped for the most part, but my lv36 war can do near 400 damage with SA+Sturmwind to IT mobs. Raging Axe works well too (320-ish).
RE: Damage Comparison
# Nov 08 2004 at 3:26 PM Rating: Default
499 posts
I have a WAR/THF, Sashalani, and I can attest to your assumption. When I use Sneak Attack with Sturmwind the damage is considerable. I can succesfully steal hate from any tank with it at any amount of TP, so, no, sneak attack is not gimped when subbed.
RE: Damage Comparison
# Nov 15 2004 at 8:10 AM Rating: Default
It IS gimped, I noticed this with my RDM, used {Sneak Attack} > {Fast Blade} with both of them, now my thf is lv18 and my RDM is lv38 and my THF was causing more damage than my RDM was. I tested it with my THF on a DC mob, and EP mob with my RDM.
RE: Damage Comparison
# Nov 14 2004 at 9:43 PM Rating: Default
Here's my input from my test.
THF/WAR-16/8: SA hits for around 110pts.
WAR/THF-30/15: SA hits for around 85pts.
Same location. My view is that it is gimped when subbed. --Svt--

Edited, Sun Nov 14 21:55:26 2004
RE: Damage Comparison
# Aug 27 2005 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
They arent gimped persay, they just arent modded. For a thf main Dex adds to SA and Agi to TA as mods. However as a /thf there is no mod to the abilitys based on stats.
What is the ability modifier?
# Oct 07 2004 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
I have heard 2 different things about SA. One person told me that AGI helps SA and that DEX help out TA. Then today, while in Kazam, a hi-lvl thf told me it was the other way around. Is there anything FACTUAL about which ability boosts the SA damage?
# Aug 01 2004 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
Sorry about that post, haha but i was wondering How much dmg trick attack + Sneak attack does at lvl 30 with 30 thf/nin adverage dmg on a mob in the jungle,
#REDACTED, Posted: Aug 01 2004 at 5:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) asdasd
# Jun 28 2004 at 11:30 PM Rating: Decent
50 posts
After the May-June 2004 update, Sneak Attack has been improved.

When used in conjuction with the level 45 ability "Hide", Sneak Attack deals critical damage to the enemy no matter where you are facing.
Newly aquired
# Jun 23 2004 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
173 posts
Just hit level 15, i have a Dagger +1 ( 8 dmg ) and two Balance Rings.... Tarutaru. Using a Meat Mithkabob, my average was about 50 damage on an IT crab and about 75 damage on an IT Damselfly. Also about 105 damage on an Easy Prey w/o food.
sneak + slice
# May 20 2004 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
i'm a level 44drk/22thf and sneak does work with slice, but the damage it does isn't anything like a sneak attack + dagger weapon skill. the most i ever did to an IT was a little over 200, and that was with last resort and souleater active. a sneak regular attack is a little bit less than a normal critical, but it's still 50-60 points more. im anxious to get to 60 so i can do a sneak + trick guillotine.
# Apr 10 2004 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
I wonder, do SA work for range as well? cause I haven't try yet but for ex. what if I have a lvl30 rng/thf and I use SA with Continuous Shot, will that work? what about the ws on the range weapon?
RE: range
# Jun 01 2004 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
SA does not work with ranged. This has been discussed in many threads.
Skill Chains
# Mar 23 2004 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
can anybody post a macro that works with sneak attack and skillchains. How many seconds should the macro wait before using sneak and then again for the weapon skill?
RE: Skill Chains
# May 20 2004 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
I use:
/ja "sneak attack"
/wait 1
/ja "trick attack"
/wait 2
/ws "viper bite"

you can get away with the second /wait being /wait 1 but i have found that if there is a bit of lag it will end up going in the wrong order somehow... so i put the extra second in there and have never had the problem.

before you get viper bite just replace that with gust slash and just take out trick attack and the second wait if you don't have it yet.
RE: Skill Chains
# May 28 2004 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
137 posts
Gust Slash doesn't work with sneak attack. Non-Elemental WSs will work with sneak and Gust Slash is considered Wind Element.
Skill Chains
# Mar 23 2004 at 10:40 PM Rating: Default

Edited, Tue Mar 23 22:39:48 2004
how much damage
# Feb 27 2004 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
yeah....i am lv 15thf/7mnk...use sneak..i deal about 110~150damage to an orc in ghelsba..did about 60~80 damage against a EM grunt..
# Feb 20 2004 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
As far as I know, this ability can be done with any melee weapon. Dagger and sword I am certain of.
Other Stuff to say
# Feb 20 2004 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
37 posts
Every time you gain a point of WS you gain a point of atk which drives up your damage, so the caps for each weapon will effect sneak damage but on to my actual point...

Regarding the coment about the sub gimping being not the case: From what I've seen this is not the case. For starters, the vast majority of damage dealers that sub thf(or anything else for that matter) hoard dex as much as a thf due to not wanting to miss a lot. Esp. Samurai which gets to my example....

I was in a party hunting mandragoras and smithys in jungle w/a sam/thf using a great katana. We were of equal lvls and, judging by his equipment, he had a bigger dex bonus then me(it was before I could afford leaping boots or hairpins). When it came to sneak attacks, I far outdamaged him by enough not to even be funny. The only way he could even get close was stacking it with Tachi: Enpi(and even then he was falling a bit behind.). All of his sneaks were practically indistinguishable from normal crits with a great katana(not that thats a bad thing.) Also, a lvl 30 monk friend of mine does about double damage from his normal swing with his sneak atk(a signifigantly lesser amount of damage than the sam.)

Furthermore, you are not factoring atk into the equation as much as it deserves, and are paying way to much attention to damage. As a lvl 30 thf I subbed war for a bit in altepa, and vs IT beetles I would cause 20+ more damage a sneak attack with berserk on(on the same beetle might I add, they were long fights...). Crits did NOT go up by 10 points under berserk(at best damage went up maybe a point or two a normal swing).

The point being, for a thf, your normal damage with a swing is a non factor so much as your atk and dex when it comes to sneak attack, and your damage as a non-thf with sneak atack is somewhat weaker than you'd think, and a lot more weapon dependent.

Finally, to address a few random other posts:
Jump is considered somewhat like a ranged atk and does not stack with, and probably does not get rid of, sneak attack.
The macro I tend to use for sneak attack is:
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 15
/wait 15
/wait 15
/wait 15
/echo Your Sneak Attack is Ready!
wait only works 15 sec at a time and echo only displays it on your screen, cutting down ohter people's spam. Through use of this macro I can tell you that sneak attack's duration is 60 seconds, as it fades at the same time I get the reminder echo.
RE: Other Stuff to say
# Jun 02 2004 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
89 posts
They've since upped the /wait time to 60 seconds. That means you can just
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 60
/echo Sneak attack is ready
RE: Other Stuff to say
# Apr 23 2004 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
Heehee thats pretty clever I think...
RE: Other Stuff to say
# Feb 27 2004 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
82 posts
/wait works for 20 seconds at a time.
RE: Other Stuff to say
# Apr 11 2004 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
i would imagine between the waits you could do /t <me> 45 (30, 15) then the cho as a countdown that doesnt spam them, and notes them and you of ability readiness, like the TP calls warriors chaining use
Some clarifications.
# Feb 18 2004 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
806 posts
I think I'll post to try and debunk the "nerfed when sub" myth and just try to explain how the damage is calculated.

Usually, the damage inflicted on an enemy is dependant on strength, base damage and enemy vitality, plus a random roll factor. So someone with 30 strength, a 20 DMG weapon against a 30 vitality enemy with defense equal to attacker's offense would do around 20 dmg.

What sneak does is two things :
1- Add your dexterity to the base damage.
2- Give you a 100% chance critical hit, ~2X damage.

Let's take a lvl 30 thief (me), in a group fight against a lvl 35 Yoahtor mandragora, who has a monk job.

My stats : 39 STR, 42 DEX, 145 ATK (on mithkabobs)
Opponent stats : roughly 36 VIT, 120 Def (guestimates based on lvl 36 MNK/hume VIT)
Using my old windurstian dagger, dmg 12

Damage calculation is (12 + 39 + 42 - 36) * 145/120 * 2 = 137 DMG which would be in the ballpark of what I was doing.

The way I see the program work, is that there's a formula applied to damage variation, and a another formula applied for to-hit, and if the to-hit is above a certain number you get your critical hit and the 2X modifier. That is why your critical hits vary in damage even on the same monster.

Ok now, why people using a thief sub say it's just a critical hit.

Take a hume WAR30/THF15, assuming he's not boosting his dex, and boosts his STR by 6. His STR is 41 after mods, and his dex is 34. He's using his brand new 38 DMG great axe.

A normal critical hit agains an even with 35 VIT and equal def to his atk would be around (41 + 38 - 35)*2 = 88 damage. Our thief's normal critical with a 12 dmg dagger and the same stipulations would be around 32 damage, which seems about right from what I see on-screen.

Now say that same warrior uses his sneak attack against that opponent. He'd get (41 + 34 + 38 - 35) * 2 = 156 damage, so less than twice a regular critical and 4X a normal hit. Our thief (me) on the other hand would get (12 + 39 + 42 - 35) * 2 = 116 damage, 3.6 times a normal critical, and 7.25 times a normal hit.

So then the player assumes that sneak is nerfed because it's a sub, but the same exact formula was used, just that the weight of the variables change.

Now I know that these are just ballpark estimates, so don't come out and say "I have same exact stats and I did 161" or so, because I haven't had the time or the will to try and reverse engineer the formulas. I might do it once pvp is in, because I will be able to go with a friend and make all of the variables vary greatly and see the difference it does in damage.

P.S: Weaponskill is not factored in the equations, and that will be one of the hardest variable to figure the effects of.

Edited, Wed Feb 18 13:52:27 2004
RE: Some clarifications.
# Sep 15 2004 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
294 posts
@_@;; Mommy has the room stoped spinning yet? @_@;;
Dragoon Sneak attack
# Feb 02 2004 at 6:38 AM Rating: Default
Does Sneak attack work with Dragoon skills? such as jump?
RE: Dragoon Sneak attack
# Sep 23 2004 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
Yes, you can Sneak Attack + Jump. Just make sure the enemy has its back to you.
# Jan 31 2004 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
Reason i came here and what i couldnt find is how to do macro, took me awhile but its

/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>

Must be capital on both Sneak and Attack. And like post below remember it's a buff, use it before pull, and you can use it again sortly after. I'd say it lasts 30 seconds, and recast is 60 seconds.
RE: macro
# Feb 18 2004 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
806 posts
Wrong. Sneak Attack lasts as long as the recast, 60 seconds, or until you do a melee attack. When I run around dungeons using SA for the sneak, I can recast immediately after running out.

Yes, it's a buff, but you need to understand the subtlety of it. I'm posting a root post to adress this.
Everything about Sneak Attack
# Jan 30 2004 at 6:34 AM Rating: Default
First off, Sneak Attack acts as a buff wears off either when you swing next, or one minute later. IF you happen to be directly behind a creature, and not moving, when you swing next you will score a critical hit(with no chance of missing) for obscene amounts of damage. This means you can use it while someone is comming with a mob, move behind it, start attacking and hit with sneak attack. That way, the recast time is partially used up, allowing you to get another sneak attack in sooner.

Next, the damage for sneak attack is based off of your dex AND your atk if you're a thief(If you are not a thief it's a glorified critical hit). This means, generally, that a large bonus to attack(Say +10 or so) is worth it more damage than a small bonus to Dex(Say +2 or 3). It also means that daggers in a thief's hands will usually hit for a bit more since a thf is A ranked with a dagger and D ranked with a sword(and E ranked with hand to hand). Do note, however, that boost adds large sums to your atk, making sneak attack do signifigantly larger damage.

And finally, Sneak Attack will stack with Trick Attack and all ws that "hit" an enemy(ie no elemental ones as has been stated before. If you're unsure just note next time whether or not it gave back TP when you hit with it. If it did then it stacks). HOWEVER, by stack i mean it will do the damage of sneak attack + (whatever) and NOT sneak attack X number of hits in skill. This is why pre level 30 stacking is for the most part POINTLESS since all you have acomplished is adding more hate that you dont need to yourself. The only actual use is in skill chains where the damage done by the after effect is based on the damage you did, HOWEVER, not all partys pre 30 will use skillchains and the setup might cost more damage from unused sneak attacks than it's worth. Note however, that post 30 stacking is important ONLY when Trick Attack is involved since any damage done is placed on your trick attack assistant, thus helping glue creatures to your tank.

And finally finally, after you get sneak attack start learning the handy phrases,"Please Stop Moving!" and "Everyone to one side Please. Im missing sneak attacks!". As a matter of fact, you might want to macro them.(I wish I was kidding....)

Odessia of Siren
The Hand of Glass
Asahi Linkshell
Weapon Skills
# Jan 15 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
61 posts
I know for a fact that Sneak attack will not stack with any Elemental based weapon skills like Gust Slash or Burning Blade. It will however stack with the rest like Fast Blade or Viper Bite, which is why Viper bite is so good.
Sneak/Trick experience
# Jan 15 2004 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
Visit GameFAQ for a good Thief FAQ. I also know that there are people who are trying to put out a better FAQ, but the one in GameFAQ is already pretty well-done.

Weapon of choice for a thief pre-level 33 is really just about anything. I never picked up Monk as a subjob, so I can't comment on hand-2-hand, but sword generally produces a lot more damage than daggers, and fast blade is a good weapon skill to use. After level 33 (when you get Viper Bite for your dagger skill), "dagger is the way to go". Viper Bite can be used in many skill chains, stacks with Sneak/Trick, and the dagger is just much faster than swords. Also take in the consideration that with the lower skill cap on swords, you'll be more likely to miss using a sword. H2H Combo makes decent amount of damage, but as a thief I'd much rather have a dagger/shield that adds more stats to myself. Currently trying to do the Ninja subjob so I can use daggers/Katanas... I think that'll be a nice way to do it (and have been told that it's good).

For reference purposes, I generally deal 300+ damage on Incredibly Tough monsters with a dmg 12 dagger using Sneak + Trick + Viper Bite. If using that to end a skill chain, it adds about 100 more damage and possibly more depending on the chain and the monster type.

Sneak/Trick stacks with all weapon types (as long as you can use it), but it does not stack with all weapon skills. The ones I know that stacks with sneak/trick: Combo, Fast Blade, Double Thrust, Viper Bite, Dancing Blade. I've heard that all basic slash/hit/bonk weapon skills stacks with sneak/trick, but can't prove that yet... Hopefully someone who's got the time to investigate will tell us soon!

The above is just my opinion based on experience, I do not intend to suggest any "correct" way to do anything. Just try things out proves to be much more fun than trying to follow someone's footsteps :)

37 THF / 18 RDM
Melatonin / Asura
h2h with thief
# Jan 15 2004 at 12:17 AM Rating: Default
I am a Thief16/Monk8. I use hand to hand for my Thief, which I will explain shortly.

When fighting in Valkrum Dunes, I normally do around 5-20 damage per hit. Using Sneak Attack, I do about 50-80 damage. When I was Monk18/Thief9, I did around 20-50 damage per Sneak Attack. There is quite a significance.

I use Strike Baghanakahs, (+5DMG, +42DLY, +2 DEX) which are pretty nice hand 2 hand weapons. I use hand to hand as a Thief, because I 1) can use hand to hand, 2) have natural DLY decrease from Monk class, and 3) have spent 30k on my weapons.

Because of the Monk, I can use it and get a DLY decrease. Think of it this way. You normally do about 20 damage per hit, and do a 80 damage Sneak Attack. Since hand to hand does two hits in one round, my first hit would be the Sneak Attack, dealing 80 dammage. Then for the second part of the round, I would hit again (immidiatly afterwards) and do 20 damage. That's 100 damage right there.

Hand to hand rocks.

RE: h2h with thief
# Jan 21 2004 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
please tell me how you got sneak attack to work as a Monk 18/Thief 9????
RE: h2h with thief
# Jan 15 2004 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
How are you able to do Sneak Attack with your Monk/Thf 18/9 when sneak attack require the theif position to be at least 15?
RE: h2h with thief
# Apr 29 2004 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
hes a thf/mnk not a mnk/thf, mnk sub gives h2h delay decrease and a thf can equip h2h weapons, thats how
RE: h2h with thief
# Nov 15 2004 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
If you read it properly he said he used Sneak Attack as a MNK18/THF9 which is impossible.
RE: h2h with thief
# Sep 18 2005 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
630 posts
The peopel of alla can't even udnerstand typos anymiore...seriously, is that hard to guess he mixed thf and mnk up?
FU everyone!
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