1
Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Stop EXP mythsFollow

#1 Dec 08 2003 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
138 posts
this was found at igni wanted to post it.. its Great information
all Props to the creator... whos name and site are below!
again i'll say that this is WONDERFUL Information
and i hopes that the creator wont be mad at me for posting it here!! (its long..but good)


Date Posted: 11/25 12:42pm Subject: How Solo and Party Exp Works - TAKE THREE! - Date Edited: 11/25 1:00pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Original_Red_Monika
Here's another significant update/revision. Other posters helped me to better understand how exp chains really work, so I have a much better explanation of exp chains now. Also, I failed to note that max BASE exp at any time is capped at 200 points per kill. Finally, I still had some errors in my logical formulas that decided whether to use exp formula # 1 or # 2 at certain levels. So the table of optimum level ranges should make more sense now:

--------------------------------------------


Many North American players, new to the game, have some terrible misconceptions about how the experience (exp) penalty works in parties, and also about the optimum level range within a party. All the time I see people on the boards saying that you should have no more than a 3-level range in a party, but the acceptable level ranges are actually much larger, once you get above level 20 or thereabouts. Heck, even the official strategy guide tells you that parties will not want beastmasters or summoners because the pets rob the party of exp. Again, this is just wrong information. It can also be disconcerting to have one character in your party ding to the next level, and everyone else suddenly sees their exp per kill dropping by a huge amount. Also, in other MMOGs, the higher level mobs tend to give larger and larger amounts of experience points, but in FFXI it seems like you're always getting the same low exp no matter what types of mobs you are fighting. This guide explains everything you ever wanted to know about how exp works in the game. Warning, this is a loooooonnnnng guide, because the subject matter is complex and there is a lot to cover. If you are reading-challenged, I apologize in advance, but remember that knowledge = power in MMOGs.


==== EXP BASICS

There are five different situations that each yeild different exp rates for players:

* You get one exp rate if you are solo

* You get a different exp rate if you are in a party (2 - 6 players)

* You get yet a different exp rate if you are in an alliance (7 players or more)

* Pet controllers get a special penalty to exp only for themselves

* Each player gets special bonuses pulling off an exp chain


==== SOLO EXP RATES

Whether you are level 1 or level 70, a mob that checks as EVEN to a solo player is worth exactly 100 points to that player. If the mob checks as tougher than EVEN, then a solo player gets more than 100 points for the kill. If the mobs checks as easier than EVEN, a solo player gets less than 100 points for the kill.

NOTE: The maximum BASE EXP (pre-penalty and pre-bonus) you can ever receive is 200 points.


==== PARTY EXP RATES

If you are in a party (2 to 6 players), things are different in two important ways:

-- EXP PER KILL IS BASED ON HOW THE MOB CHECKS TO THE HIGHEST LEVEL PLAYER IN THE PARTY:

If the mob checks as EVEN to the highest player, then the base experience will 100 for everyone in the group.

Next, the base experience is multiplied depending on how many players are in the group:

2 players = 1.2
3 players = 1.35
4 players = 1.6
5 players = 1.85
6 players = 2.1


Finally, the multiplied total is then divided by the number of players in the group.

For example, say a group of 4 players kills a mob that checks as VERY TOUGH to the highest player in the group, who happens to be level 29. The base experience is 350 points, which is then multiplied by 1.6 for a total of 560 points. This total is then divided by 4, yeilding 140 pre-penalty points for each player.

NOTE: The maximum BASE EXP (pre-penalty and pre-bonuse) that each player can ever receive is 200 points.


-- AN EXPERIENCE PENALTY IS ASSESSED FOR EACH PLAYER WHO HAS FEWER LEVELS THAN THE HIGHEST PLAYER:

This penalty is based on two different formulas:

* Formula 1: ExpPenalty = 1 - (Your Level / Highest Player's Level)

* Formula 2: ExpPenalty = 1 - (Your NEXTLevel / Highest Player's NEXTLevel)

Formula 1 takes priority over Formula 2. Formula 1 is used when either of the following conditions exist:

* The highest player in the group is level 51 or higher. This affects every player in the party regardless of their level.

*The difference between your level and the highest player's level is 8 or more.

So continuing with our example of the 4-person party, where the highest player in the party is level 29, we are starting with 140 base points for the other three players. If the other three players are all level 29 too, then they would each get 140 points. But let's assume that one is level 28, one is level 26, and one is level 21. Here's what their penalties would be:

* Level 28 = 1 - (5800 / 5900) = 2% penalty. So .98 x 140 = 137 points

* Level 26 = 1 - (5600 / 5900) = 5% penalty. So .95 x 140 = 133 points

* Level 21 = 1 - (21 / 29) = 28% penalty. So .72 x 140 = 100 points


==== ALLIANCE EXP RATES

If you are in alliance, (more than 7 players), then exp works similar to how it works for parties, with one important exception: the multiplier for everyone is always 1.85. This may lead you to think that you could exploit a higher exp rate by joining two small parties together in an alliance to get a higher multiplier (for example two parties of 4 each to jump from a 1.6 multiplier to a 1.85 multiplier), but remember that you still divide the post-multiplier exp by the total number of players in the alliance, so you end up with a lower exp rate in an alliance no matter how you slice it:

* 4 players in a party, all the same level, kill a 100 point monster: (1.6 x 100) / 4 = 40 pre-penalty points each.

* 8 players in an alliance, all the same level, kill a 100 point monster: (1.85 x 100) / 8 = 23 pre-penalty points each.


NOTE: The maximum BASE EXP (pre-penalty and pre-bonuse) that each player can ever receive is 200 points.


==== EXP PENALTIES FOR PETS

Unfortunately many people believe that pets hurt a party's exp rate. This is caused in part by the fact that the official strategy guide says so. However, the pet penalty really applies only to the player that controls the pet; it does not affect your other party members.

What is still unclear is whether the pet penalty is applied before or after your party-level exp penalty and exp chain bonuses. So I can't give you a concrete example. The bottom line is that somewhere in your personal exp calculation for a given kill, an additional 30% is shaved off because of your pet. Again, this affects only you--not anyone else.

So party leaders, give those beastmasters, summoners, and dragoons a break and let them in if they can help your party. Their pets will NOT steal exp from the party; only from their controller.


==== EXP CHAINS

Now for the fun stuff. If you kill a mob that checks as EVEN or tougher to you, you have the opportunity to start earning EXP CHAIN bonuses. The basics are as follows:

* Unlike all the other exp-related formulas, exp chains are based on how a mob checks to YOU. You could get an exp chain, for example, while nobody else in your group gets an exp chain. For example, you might be a level 18 character tagging along with a couple friends who are level 22. They are choosing targets that are mostly DECENT CHALLENGE to them, but to you these mobs usually check as EVEN or TOUGH. Your friends won't be getting any exp chains, but you might very well get a lot of them.

* You have to consecutively kill mobs that are EVEN or tougher to YOU. If you kill even one mob that is DECENT or lower, you will break the chain.

* You have a set amount of time to kill the NEXT mob in the chain. With each mob in the chain, the chain bonus goes up, but the amount of time you have gets smaller and smaller. For example, say you are level 15 and your party kills a mob that is EVEN to you. You now have 100 seconds to kill another mob that is EVEN or tougher to you. If your party kills this other EVEN or tougher mob within 100 seconds, you get a EXP #1 CHAIN message and you just got a little bonus. If your party then manages to kill another >EVEN mob within 80 seconds, you'll get an EXP #2 CHAIN message and get a slightly higher bonus. Now you have 60 seconds to kill the next mob in the chain, then 40 seconds, then 20 seconds for every chain increment after that.

* Depending on your level, the allotted time for each mob in the chain is different. At levels 1-9, for example, you have 50 seconds to pull off the first mob in the chain, and it decrements down to 10 seconds. At levels 10-19 it goes from 100 seconds to 20 seconds. At levels 20-29 it goes from 150 seconds to 30 seconds, and so on. Here's the full breakdown:

YOUR Level Range .... #1 Chain .... #2 Chain .... #3 Chain .... #4 Chain .... #5 and Higher Chains

1 - 9 .... 50 .... 40 .... 30 .... 20 .... 10
10 - 19 .... 100 .... 80 .... 60 .... 40 .... 20
20 - 29 .... 150 .... 120 .... 90 .... 60 .... 30
30 - 39 .... 200 .... 160 .... 120 .... 80 .... 40
40 - 49 .... 250 .... 200 .... 150 .... 100 .... 50
50 - 59 .... 300 .... 240 .... 180 .... 120 .... 60
60 - 70 .... 350 .... 280 .... 210 .... 140 .... 70

* The exp bonus itself is just an additional multiplier that is added to your BASE EXP, as calculated by solo, party, or alliance as described above. First, your solo/party/alliance BASE EXP is calculated, and then the exp chain multiplier is applied to that BASE amount. The result is the pre-penalty exp that you receive for that kill. If you make Chain #1, for example, you get a 1.2x multiplier for that kill. If you make it to Chain #2, you get a 1.25 multiplier for that kill, and so on. The progression goes like this:

Chain #1 = 1.2 x BASE
Chain #2 = 1.25 x BASE
Chain #3 - 1.3 x BASE
Chain #4 - 1.4 x BASE
Chain #5 - 1.5 x BASE
Chains # 6 and beyond - 1.5 x BASE



So here's an example: say you have a party of 6 people. You're consistently killing mobs that check as EVEN to you. (Remember, it doesn't matter what it checks to other people in the party.) You're all between levels 31 and 36:

* a first EVEN mob - normal BASE exp
* a second EVEN mob killed within 150 seconds of the first one - Chain #1 - you get BASE x 1.2
* a third EVEN mob killed within 120 seconds of the second - Chain #2 - you get BASE x 1.25
* a fourth EVEN mob killed within 90 seconds of the third - Chain #3 - you get BASE x 1.3
* You kill a mob that checks as only DECENT to you - you just broke the chain. Back to BASE exp.



==== THE TROUBLE WITH DINGS

We've all seen it. One player in the party dings to the next level, and suddenly, it's as if everyone else's exp per kill takes a huge nosedive. What's going on here?

The problem stems from the fact that, as described above, all exp calculations are based on how a mob checks to the highest-level player in the group. Say you're in a group of four level 10 players, for example, and one of you dings to 11. The mobs that might have previously checked as VERY TOUGH to all of you probably now check as only TOUGH to the player that just dinged to 11. So the base exp of 350 that you get for a VERY TOUGH mob has suddenly been reduced to at most a base value of 200 exp for a +4 TOUGH mob. That's a huge drop in exp per kill right there.

On top of that 150-point drop in base exp for the mob, you now have to factor in the exp penalty for the level 10 players in the party, which would be 1 - (2600 / 2800), which is an 8% penalty. So, when all four of you were level 10, killing VERY TOUGH mobs, you were each getting (350 x 1.6 ) / 4 = 140 points each. After one of you dings to level 11, here's what the exp for each of you looks like:

* Level 11 (mob now checks as +4 TOUGH): (200 x 1.6) / 4 = 80 points

* Level 10: 80 x .92 = 73 points

The party is not really all that much stronger, because only one of you have dinged to the next level. Yet your exp per mob has literally dropped to almost HALF of what it was before. This is unfortunate, but it's how it works. Until more of you ding to 11 and have the strength to take on mobs that now check as VERY TOUGH to the level 11s in the party, you're just going to have to deal with sucky exp flow.


==== OPTIMUM PARTY LEVEL RANGES

So what are the optimum level ranges you can fit into a party? I see grouping guides by well known experts that claim emphatically that you should never have a spread greater than 3 levels in a group. I see this same myth propagated on the forums too. Wrong. The real story is laid out in the following table.

CAUTION: Remember that these tables are based on the two exp formulas used in the game. You should still use common sense when building a party. While you could theoretically add a couple players into your group who might be 6 levels beneath your highest level character (or more), it's not always a good idea. You might be able to get away with this for back-line support characters, but it would be a horrible idea for a group with four level 30 mages to have two level 23 WAR tanks, for example. The tanks simply wouldn't do a good job of holding aggro against the kinds of mobs such a group would be hunting. THE GENERAL RULE OF THUMB IS THIS: IT'S OKAY TO ADD ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS THAT ARE *LOWER* THAN THE BULK OF YOUR PARTY, BUT IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA TO ADD EVEN ONE PLAYER WHO IS *HIGHER* THAN THE BULK OF YOUR PARTY.

The table is based on a spreadsheet that I built using the formulas found here: http://www.geocities.com/bside_ffxi/index.html#exp, and using a NEXTlevel exp chart found here: http://ffvault.ign.com/?dir=guides&content=leveldata. These seem to be established formulas and exp charts, so my table data should be trustworthy. Again, the formulas work like this:

* If you are under level 51 and the party level range is 7 or less, then Formula #2 applies. This formula is based on values in the NEXTlevel chart that correspond to each player's primary job..

* If the party level range is 8 or more, or if anyone in the party is greater than level 50, then Formula #1 applies instead. This formula is based only on the level of each player's primary job.


==== USING THE TABLE

The table contains four columns:

* The Lowest Level column is the level of the LOWEST-Level player in the group

* The 10% Penalty column is the level range UP from the lowest-level player, if the lowest character wants to get 90% or better of the exp earned by the highest-level player for each party kill.

* The 15% Penalty column is the level range UP from the lowest character if the lowest character wants to get 85% or better of the exp earned by the highest player.

* The 20% Penalty column is the level range UP from the lowest character if the lowest character wants to get 80% or better of the exp earned by the highest player.

* The 25% Penalty column is the level range UP from the lowest character if the lowest character wants to get 75% or better of the exp earned by the highest player.


The easiest way to apply this table to your party is this:

1. Look at the lowest-level member who wants into your party.

2. Determine what exp penalty the lowest member will find acceptable (10%, 15%, or 20%)

3. Find that player's level in the Lowest Level column.

4. Look across to the 10% Penalty, 15% Penalty, 20% Penalty, or 25% Penalty columns as appropriate.

5. Add the indicated value to the lowest player's level. The result is the optimum highest level of the party.


EXAMPLE 1: A party is forming, and they are all powergamers who will be satisfied with nothing more than a 10% exp penalty for the lowest-level player in the party. The lowest player is level 18. Looking in the 10% Penalty column, we see a value of 2, so the highest level player can be no more than level 20.

EXAMPLE 2: A full mid-level party is out hunting, and their White Mage is about to log out for the night. A lowbie White Mage is in the vicinity with his LFG flag set. The party asks the lowbie mage to join them, but the low mage wants to know whether the exp penalty will be worth it to join the party. The highest level in the party is level 33. The lowbie White Mage is level 20, which would make for a party level range of 13. Looking across the columns for the Lowest Level value of 20, we see that 13 is much larger than any of the listed values, so we know that the lowbie will take a greater than 20% exp penalty if he joins the party. (In fact, he would take a huge 40% penalty, but you have to know the formulas to calculate that.). The lowbie decides it's better to wait for another group that is closer to his optimum level range.


Lowest Level .. 10% .. 15% .. 20% .. 25%

1 .. 0 .. 0 .. 0 .. 0
2 .. 0 .. 0 .. 0 .. 0
3 .. 0 .. 0 .. 1 .. 1
4 .. 0 .. 0 .. 1 .. 1
5 .. 0 .. 1 .. 1 .. 1
6 .. 0 .. 1 .. 1 .. 2
7 .. 1 .. 1 .. 2 .. 2
8 .. 1 .. 1 .. 2 .. 2
9 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 3
10 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 3
11 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 3
12 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4
13 .. 1 .. 2 .. 4 .. 4
14 .. 1 .. 3 .. 4 .. 4
15 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5
16 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5
17 .. 2 .. 3 .. 5 .. 5
18 .. 2 .. 3 .. 5 .. 6
19 .. 2 .. 3 .. 6 .. 6
20 .. 2 .. 4 .. 7 .. 6
21 .. 2 .. 5 .. 7 .. 7
22 .. 3 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7
23 .. 4 .. 7 .. 7 .. 7
24 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 8
25 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 8
26 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 8
27 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9
28 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9
29 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9
30 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 10
31 .. 6 .. 7 .. 7 .. 10
32 .. 6 .. 7 .. 8 .. 10
33 .. 7 .. 7 .. 8 .. 11
34 .. 7 .. 7 .. 8 .. 11
35 .. 7 .. 7 .. 8 .. 11
36 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9 .. 12
37 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9 .. 12
38 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9 .. 12
39 .. 7 .. 7 .. 9 .. 13
40 .. 7 .. 7 .. 10 .. 13
41 .. 7 .. 7 .. 10 .. 13
42 .. 7 .. 7 .. 10 .. 14
43 .. 7 .. 7 .. 10 .. 14
44 .. 6 .. 7 .. 11 .. 14
45 .. 5 .. 7 .. 11 .. 15
46 .. 5 .. 8 .. 11 .. 15
47 .. 5 .. 8 .. 11 .. 15
48 .. 5 .. 8 .. 12 .. 16
49 .. 5 .. 8 .. 12 .. 16
50 .. 5 .. 8 .. 12 .. 16
51 .. 5 .. 9 .. 12 .. 17
52 .. 5 .. 9 .. 13 .. 17
53 .. 5 .. 9 .. 13 .. 17
54 .. 6 .. 9 .. 13 .. 18
55 .. 6 .. 9 .. 13 .. 18
56 .. 6 .. 9 .. 14 .. 18
57 .. 6 .. 10 .. 14 .. 19
58 .. 6 .. 10 .. 14 .. 19
59 .. 6 .. 10 .. 14 .. 19
60 .. 6 .. 10 .. 15 .. 20
61 .. 6 .. 10 .. 15 .. 20
62 .. 6 .. 10 .. 15 .. 20
63 .. 7 .. 11 .. 15 .. 21
64 .. 7 .. 11 .. 16 .. 21
65 .. 7 .. 11 .. 16 .. 21
66 .. 7 .. 11 .. 16 .. 22
67 .. 7 .. 11 .. 16 .. 22
68 .. 7 .. 12 .. 17 .. 22
69 .. 7 .. 12 .. 17 .. 23
70 .. 7 .. 12 .. 17 .. 23
71 .. 7 .. 12 .. 17 .. 23
72 .. 8 .. 12 .. 18 .. 24
73 .. 8 .. 12 .. 18 .. 24
74 .. 8 .. 13 .. 18 .. 24
75 .. 8 .. 13 .. 18 .. 25
76 .. 8 .. 13 .. 19 .. 25
77 .. 8 .. 13 .. 19 .. 25
78 .. 8 .. 13 .. 19 .. 26
79 .. 8 .. 13 .. 19 .. 26
80 .. 8 .. 14 .. 20 .. 26


NOTE: The reason that the numbers seem to go "backward" in the 10% column for levels 44 through 53 is due a combination of the large 2000-point jump between levels 50 and 51, as well as the crossover to Formula #1 that is required when any player in the group is level 51 or higher. At level 44, for example, Formula #2 yeilds an acceptable range of only 6 levels. Trying to go to 7 levels would kick us into Formula #1 (because there would now be a level 51 player in the group). But Formula #1 would yeild: 44/51 = 14% penalty. So clearly the only way to keep the penalty at 10% or better is by having a maximum range of +6 levels for a level 44 player. Yes, it's a pain to visualize and calculate in your head, which is why the table is useful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information compiled and charted by Red Monika of TAO - The Ancient Order
http://www.theancientorder.com
-----signature-----

T-A-O - The Ancient Order
Slumming it in FFXI like a happy o.O
FurryKurry - Taru mage on Bismarck
http://theancientorder.com/

#2 Oct 28 2004 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
**
787 posts
A few notes:

Killing a mob below EM doesn't break the chain, though it will usually take time that will cause you to miss the next chain. Beastman BST pets are usually Easy Prey, but they go down fast enough that they don't cause chain problems.

The pet penalty only affects BST, not DRG or SMN. It is applied before the base xp cap, so it is possible to get 200xp with a pet if you're fighting VTs solo.

Perhaps what the Brady guide was actually saying was that if the BST charms a mob of a higher level than anyone in the party, the pet's level is used to calculate the base damage. This is true, so having your BST charm an IT and use his 2-hour to keep it charmed isn't good for the xp (though it's very useful for quests). Too bad they didn't make this clear, so people think they were talking about the 30% pet penalty. ><

An alliance of two parties of two characters should in fact get more exp than a single party of 4.

And a recent change: The CoP patch raised the base xp cap so 51+ can get 250 without a chain, and 61+ can get 300.
____________________________
Valyana of Ramuh || BRD profile || BST combat profile
#3 Oct 28 2004 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
*
175 posts
I think the max exp gainable has been increased at higher levels.

Also the main reason people i know want to keep party same levels is not for exp. Shoot once you past level 20 exp penaltys are not bad at all. The main reason is the battle and spells systems in the game are harsh on level differences. Only 3 levels difference can make a HUGE impact on misses, damage (melee and spell) and spell resists.

On mandys you can get away with just about anything but if you fighting non-weak def mobs, or even worse high def mobs, level difference makes a huge impact on how effective people are.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 2 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (2)