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Refresh etiquette....please read <_>Follow

#52 Jun 19 2004 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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239 posts
well to say what pretty much every other person posting here has said...

personperson you are wrong...and to add a little of my own flavor...

you are also a complete dolt


refresh cycle = RDM>PLD>WHM>BLM or DRK .. I use on PLD before whm because they have less MP, and the WHM will have refresh on by the time whm starts having to cure

everyone will have there own cycle but RDM cast it on himself/herself first to get back the MP he/she uses on refreshing the others



and now let call you out on statement
refresh is only thing RDM does

once again....you are a complete dolt

post 41... RDM has to refresh>enfeeble>MB>backup heal>regen if needed



and on a side note big rate up for Cillranchello...


and once again....personperson
you are a complete dolt

thank you



#53 Jun 19 2004 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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612 posts
Forgive me, I only skimmed over the last few posts. However, I am appalled at some things that have come up here:

Quote:
Why exactly do you think that yourself (a RDM) has higher priority than the healer? WHM mana is the party's life; that's it, no question; whm is out of mana then everyone dies--a WHM gets low on mana and everyone has to wait between battles.


Personperson, there is a really simple reason: RDM is the only one with Refresh. If the RDM is out of MP, then NO ONE can get Refresh. Further, a WHM is not the be-all end-all of the party. Last I checked, RDM have cure spells as well. Heck, some people even use RDMs as a main healer. I have been able to keep a party going if the WHM is oomp, or even dead, to survive a fight. To say that if the WHM dies then everyone dies when you have someone else that can heal is a fallacy.


Quote:
A RDMs job is to refresh. period. Face it, that's one of the only reason anyone wants you--ever noticed why no one went out of their way to find a RDM until after 41?


/sigh... So much to address, so little time. I will not be content to simply reiterate everyone's statements, but will go out of my way to find whatever facts I can. Okay, first, if RDM is so mediocre pre-41, then how is it that servers have any RDM post 41 at all? If your answer is "there was no one else to invite" then I simply have to say in response that I never waited to long for an invite pre-41, even with other classes available. Until the early 30s, RDM provides in significant amounts of melee damage (not great, but far from negligible) and provides enfeebles and backup heals in one neat package. And by the time their melee tapers off, what happens? They get Dispel! I have been sought out explicitly in the C. Nest for that reason alone.

Quote:
They are minor enfeeblers and a BLM or WHM can replace them--alternatively you'd do better with another class that could do some damage. RMD is a weak class UNTIL they get refresh--which is an *awesome* spell and makes a RDM awesome and worth waiting for.


You seem to be stuck in a mindset of lower levels, despite being far past them. Let's have a looksie here... RDM enfeebling is A+. WHM have a C in this skill, and BLM have a C+. Now, at lower levels, these numbers aren't too different. Even at 50, the difference is not astronomical, but still enough to make a difference. At 50, a RDM is capped at 153, with BLM and WHM both capped at 142. However, once you start going up from there, things change quicky. Let's take it to the top, 75. A RDM will have 276, a BLM will have 230, and a WHM will have 225. At my level (51) I am already having some trouble getting spells to stick on IT++ (and yes, my enfeebling is capped). I even offered to let the WHM in my party take an enfeeble to up her skill, but she told me to just cast it because she could never get it to stick. If a RDM can have trouble sticking things, what makes you think that a BLM or a WHM have a snowball's chance in h*ll?

Further, we are provided with a rather interesting parallel... RDM Enfeebling is A+, Elemental is C+. BLM Elemental is A+, Enfeebling is C+. Now, if you are saying a BLM can enfeeble as well as a RDM, then it stands to reason that a RDM can Nuke as well as a BLM (given the same spell, since RDM don't have access to all BLM nukes). If a BLM can Enfeeble as well as a RDM, but a RDM can't nuke as well as a BLM, then we'd might as well throw the skill system out the window because it obviously has no bearing on anything. Obviously, this is ridiculous; why do WARs use G. Axe and Axe, DRKs use Scythe and G. Sword, etc..? SKILL CAPS. Ask any melee OR mage and they will tell you how much they matter, if you for some reason do not realize this yourself.

Well, it seems I have provided sufficient evidence that RDMs are the best enfeeblers by FAR, but this isn't much benefit if enfeebles don't do anything, right? Now for my next task: proving enfeebles are worthwhile.
This is hard to "prove" beyond simple common sense. I will try to explain this as clearly as possible: Paralyze costs 6MP. When paralyzed, a monster's action may be blocked. If a monster is effected by paralysis only ONCE, then that is using 6 MP to replace the heal for however much damage the monster's attack would have done. Slow. Reduce enemy attack speed, so they get in less attacks. Do I really need to explain the math on this? Prevent several attacks, save a WHOLE LOT of MP from healing. Silence. This is a pain even for a RDM to stick on many monsters. But without it, what happens when a Skeleton starts casting some nasty magic? Would you rather prevent it with silence, or deal with the expensive heal (or raise). Dispel. We can even look at the C. Nest for this. Forgive me for not providing exact numbers, but I know of no place to get how much Cacoon reduces damage by. But I can say this: I was soloing Crawlers the other day. When they used Cacoon, I noticed my base sword damage drop from ~40 to ~10. And this was on an EASY PREY. I can only imagine what an IT++'s Cacoon would do. I could go on, but I think this is enough.

Quote:
You might do better with some facts though; :p By all means, if you've got facts about why an enfeeble is actually better for the party than a refresh, please do tell. Do tell, my dear, what a RDM does that's better than refresh. Let's hear it.


I should think that by this time, I have provided sufficient facts to convince most people that enfeebling is a worthwhile job in and of itself. Refresh alone will give you some more MP. But what you are neglecting are the INDIRECT MP savings. Paralyze can indirectly save 100+ MP for the WHM (as per the example above). Dispelling a Cocoon can end the battle a LOT faster, thus necessitating less MP usage.

The obvious solution is to do BOTH. Refresh and Enfeeble. I will usually Refresh, use 2 enfeebles (waiting on Refresh timer), Refresh, repeat. However, very rarely do these Refresh make the difference between life and death. In the first battle of a chain, rarely if ever is anyone left with less than 150MP (same amount Refresh gives back), which means that they could have pulled through WITHOUT it. Refresh's main use is to reduce downtime. Enfeebles are both to reduce downtime AND to enhance survivability.

A RDM's job can be described thusly post 41: Make the party run as smoothly and efficiently as possible. That means making the enemy as weak as possible, and making the party as strong as possible. RDM's are NOT Refresh slaves. RDM's are NOT only Enfeeblers (post 41). Any that are only one or the other are only an incomplete RDM. Refresh makes things go faster and more smoothly. But if you think for one gosh darn minute enfeebling isn't AT LEAST as beneficial in the long run, then you have no idea what you are missing.

Quote:
Sorry to rub your fur the wrong way; and about whether the RDM is 'only' important for refresh, we can disagree and form our own parties our own way. I am well aware that such a discussion isn't productive--I am just responding to people posting and posting with nothing to say but how hurt their feelings are.


Yes, I suppose we can agree to disagree, Personperson. However, that doesn't mean that I won't do my utmost to counter information/opinions that fly in the face of 51 levels of actually playing RDM and countless others partying with them. You are posting on an open forum. This forum was intending for Refresh ettiquette. Essentially, many people that read this forum are coming here to LEARN. If someone reads your post, they may believe what you say and form opinions based on that. I feel obligated to do my best to prevent this from happening when the information in question is incorrect. I have not responded with simple hurt feelings. I have backed up my claims with evidence and personal experience. Far more evidence than you ever used, anyway. Who ever said women weren't logical? =P

I have responded to your challenge, and believe myself to have met it. I must, however, wonder how many people will get to this post, with how long the thread is.

Oh, and to stay true to the original post.... yes, I HATE it when people spam "Refresh plz," especially like the BLM I did BCNM 40 with, asking me for it before the battle, when I had 60 MP left from individually buffing everyone, and was sitting to regen my own MP, while he was missing a mere 50. Most often, if someone asks me for Refresh, I started casting it before it comes up in party chat. Refresh is a priority for me, but if I am in the middle of another spell, do not expect me to stop casting it just so I can hit you with Refresh. Also, if a Beetle just used Rhino Guard, the only way you get Refresh before I Dispel it is if you are either myself or the PLD, or a WHM OOMP.

EDIT: Clarified who I was quoting.

Edited, Sat Jun 19 04:51:40 2004 by RydiaJademist
#54 Jun 19 2004 at 3:28 AM Rating: Good
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215 posts
Wow, just a couple quick things to say.

Personperson. Ummm. Lets see how to say this. You staed that whm's should take priorty over rdm's for refresh. My question is this. If the rdm doesnt have MP to cast refresh on you with, how are you going to get your refresh?

To whoever said we can go sit on LFG for a few hours. All im going to say is "Umm yeah" and every rdm that reads this thread is laughing at you with me :)

#55 Jun 19 2004 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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804 posts
Rollotamasi wrote:
Wow, just a couple quick things to say.

Personperson. Ummm. Lets see how to say this. You staed that whm's should take priorty over rdm's for refresh. My question is this. If the rdm doesnt have MP to cast refresh on you with, how are you going to get your refresh?

To whoever said we can go sit on LFG for a few hours. All im going to say is "Umm yeah" and every rdm that reads this thread is laughing at you with me :)



And exactly what level are you? Go ahead and put together a group of 68-70 during an offtime. I know bards on my server that will sit LFG for 1-2 hours before finally being picked up. Unfortunately pickup groups don't work very well 60+ or take a long time to get set up. I should have stated my level when I was talking about getting rid of a Red Mage. If you don't have experience finding groups at this level, I highly recommend recanting your statement above. Thanks.
#56 Jun 19 2004 at 4:36 AM Rating: Decent
I'm glad you are not a Redmage in my party,obviously an idiot if you reckon Black Mages do not need Refresh.
#57 Jun 19 2004 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
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15,054 posts
Quote:
A RDMs job is to refresh. period. Face it, that's one of the only reason anyone wants you--ever noticed why no one went out of their way to find a RDM until after 41?


Just try fighting high level crab type enemies without a RDM's dispel and see what happens LOL
____________________________
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#58 Jun 19 2004 at 5:19 AM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
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15,054 posts
Quote:
You seem to be stuck in a mindset of lower levels, despite being far past them. Let's have a looksie here... RDM enfeebling is A+. WHM have a C in this skill, and BLM have a C+. Now, at lower levels, these numbers aren't too different. Even at 50, the difference is not astronomical, but still


One other thing people overlook is that RDM is rated B with a sword. Which is why I laugh at melers that claim RDM's sword skill is "pathetic". Um, guys, everyone else is also B (Yes, I'm looking in your direction WAR) or worse with a 1H sword, only PLD is rated A in it.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#59 Jun 19 2004 at 5:25 AM Rating: Default
Yes but that is really the only weapon Redmages use,kinda pathetic to only have a B in the main weapon you have available to you.
#60 Jun 19 2004 at 5:29 AM Rating: Good
That would be because their "A" skill is Enfeebling. Thus providing another reason why Refresh is not their only reason for existing.

Edited, Sat Jun 19 20:10:34 2004 by Miravelle
#61 Jun 19 2004 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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141 posts
Lol why do you all get so bent over one guy that's still stuck in the "WHM pwns RDM" mentality... I mean honestly if you take someone serious that complains about how RDM are so "me me me" cause they refresh themselves first, then in the same sentence says how only the WHM really really needs refresh at all times... Oh well.

Me personally, I like to refresh everyone that has MP - I'm not there to "judge" who is using their MP the right way and who isn't. I refresh people even if they're full or near full MP; once the next battle starts there is gonna be a lot of other stuff to do than just refreshing everyone (like the useless enfeebles, and maybe even some useless hastes! :P) BLM most definitely gets refresh in my PT every cycle.
#62 Jun 19 2004 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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843 posts
Quote:
A RDMs job is to refresh. period. Face it, that's one of the only reason anyone wants you--ever noticed why no one went out of their way to find a RDM until after 41?


Remember when a WHM would run out of mana in a battle? Remember when that RDM had a trickle of mana left (let's say 100) and they would heal when the WHM rested and keep the Cures coming so everyone would stay alive until the WHM was ready again?

Quote:
To whoever said we can go sit on LFG for a few hours. All im going to say is "Umm yeah" and every rdm that reads this thread is laughing at you with me :)


Sorry, I'm a RDM and I have to say, we can sit for hours waiting for a group. Everyone can. Even WHMs can when there are already enough WHMs around.

If a RDM's main job is to Refresh after 41, I would be gone already. Refresh is like a luxury that mages are able to experience when they party with a RDM.
Sure, if the RDM doesn't cast Refresh, they will get yelled at, but don't get all demanding when you start missing Refreshes for 5 seconds. Like someone else said, you've been missing Refreshes for 40 levels before this. RDMs have a 16 recast timer on this spell.
#63 Jun 19 2004 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Why exactly do you think that yourself (a RDM) has higher priority than the healer? WHM mana is the party's life; that's it, no question; whm is out of mana then everyone dies--a WHM gets low on mana and everyone has to wait between battles. RDM or PLD run out of mana and everything is OK--a bit slower, but not a terrible tragedy. WHM also use much more mana much faster than anyone else. I chalk this up to selfishness--Just the idea that because the RDM has the spell, he should cast it on himself first. I'm a WHM and if I die, then everyone dies--and still I will almost always heal the mele people first. You've got to put aside your own self-interest for the good of the whole.

Also, I think your reasoning is a bit off on when you think refresh is needed. It may eventually restore 120 mana, but this takes time, silly. Especially on a WHM who is casting *constantly*, refresh should always be on, because it takes time to make up that mana--and a good WHM will be using it much faster than it's coming back. By the same tolken (and I believe that this is widely agreed) a paladin should always have regen on--because even though he may be close to full life, he will be taking nearly constant damage--and the effect of regen will just ease the burden of healing him.

Furthermore, you sound so indignant about being a 'busy' RDM with lots of other things to do. LOL. A RDMs job is to refresh. period. Face it, that's one of the only reason anyone wants you--ever noticed why no one went out of their way to find a RDM until after 41? (or whatever the lvl is :p) If people wanted damage, they'd get a BLM, if healing a WHM--ask anyone what they want a RDM for and see what they say. Sure you have other abilities yada yada yada--but that's not why people invite you to party. And RMDs are great--don't get me wrong, I love to be in parties with them, and appreciate what you guys do. But what you guys do is Refresh--the rest is just fluff and arrogance.

As a WHM, I will ask the RDM for refresh at the beginning of the party--because if they drop the ball and aren't paying attention then we all have to sit through down time and battles which are more dangerous than they should be. Forgive me if I don't automatically assume that you are one of the few good RDM who always have it together. After I have fought with you a while, if you seem to have your act together, *then* I will give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you will get to me when you have a chance.

I don't really see where you get off asking that everyone just assume that their RDM is on the ball before knowing them. You are asking everyone to trust that the RDM is a perfect player unconditionally--you really have no right to get offended if people don't automatically assume this. I don't get offended when people ask me for Haste or Regen or whatever people want from a WHM--for the first few fights it's normal that people will talk to each other and make sure that everyone is prepared to do their job effectively. Nearly every class has a special ability or two that the party has an interest in making sure they use--and the party has a right to make sure that that player knows that they are expected to use it. Anyone who is so terribly offended and throws a fit at a gentle prodding as the party gets started is too highly strung to be a good party member.

Yes, pestering constantly is a bad thing. After a couple of hours and people still don't get that there is a casting time and mana cost involved--that's annoying, I'm with you there. But you can expect (and in my opinion have an obligation to accept gracefully) being prodded for your abilities when you


hahahahaha
...
...
AHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh man that just made my day.

Edited, Sat Jun 19 14:04:31 2004 by TheWired
#64 Jun 19 2004 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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208 posts
Thats all well and good except that every single RDM I ever partied with under 50 seemed to be too cheap and poor to buy Dispell.

Every time a RDM levels past 32 without buying dispell, baby Jesus crys.
#65 Jun 19 2004 at 4:26 PM Rating: Default
47rdm/22nin bismark I have a serious problem in parties that have 3-4 mages (including me) and all DEMANDING refresh. In my last party I was not only required to do this, but also debuff, nuke, melee AND back-up heal. After 4 mobs I told them to refresh their d@!mn selves and bounced. I'm never THAT desperate to be in a party. I always take care of the essentials (WHM,BLM or PALLY and myself) but not all of them. I'm not gonna rely on "convert" exactly every ten minutes to do all these jobs! I REFUSE!!!!!
#66 Jun 19 2004 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
you buy dispel (60k) and send it to me ok??
#67 Jun 19 2004 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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1,463 posts
Sure.

Right after you buy Erase (>300k) for a WHM. Or, hey, how about a Ballad II (80k) for a Bard. Or, say, an Emperor's Hairpin (300k) for a Thief.

Please. 60k is a drop in the freaking bucket. I'm looking at 130k to buy Carnage Elegy. Guess what I did? Guess. You'll never guess.

I stopped leveling up and started farming. I'd rather not gimp my party because I don't have the spells I need.
#68 Jun 19 2004 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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345 posts
As a Whitemage I would expect one person to be in charge of my mana regeneration, that is me. Altana bless you if you cast regen on me, however, if you don't, I'll still use food and drinks and rest after battles. It seems that a good rule of thumb is to look out for #1.
#69 Jun 19 2004 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
been farming NM's and all that but allthe spells and stuff you mentioned is dropped or can be quested for. dispel IS NOT. what you like doing with your char is your buisness FFXI is for my pleasure as well as yours. I ain't tryin to gimp anybody but 60k is 60k. I have a full time job and a wife and daddy I do what I can when I can. I'm not a die hard 24/7 FFXI nut (though I'd like to be) but if I spent all my time farming or synthing I'd be no where!
#70 Jun 19 2004 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
Actually, if you spent all of your time farming and synthing you would probably be in a better place than you are now. Because people respect others who do everything that they can to get the best possible playing experience.

There is no point in inviting someone to my party who isn't up to date on spells, weapons and armor. Because then we aren't working at our full potential.

End of story. It has been said thousands of times before on this board, but here it is again:

If you can't afford to purchase level appropriate spells, weapons and armor, stop leveling and find a way to make enough gil to afford the things you need.
#71 Jun 19 2004 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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1,563 posts
Quote:
Right after you buy Erase (>300k) for a WHM. Or, hey, how about a Ballad II (80k) for a Bard. Or, say, an Emperor's Hairpin (300k) for a Thief.

Please. 60k is a drop in the freaking bucket. I'm looking at 130k to buy Carnage Elegy. Guess what I did? Guess. You'll never guess.


While were adding in what we need i'd like an ice staff for my blm (180k) and i also need a Dark staff (280k).

Once i have my dark staff i wont need your refresh anymore :P

#72 Jun 19 2004 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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145 posts
My style of casting for refresh uses a casting order to put me in a refresh cycle, and it goes as follows:

RDM > PLD > WHM > BLM > others when needed/I am able

The reasoning for me being first? Its quite simple, I really dont have the time to waste staring at MP bars in the corner of my screen trying to see if your time ran out on refresh but if I run out first I know exactly when to restart my refresh cycle. I dont refresh myself as #1 priority to be selfish I do it out of practicality. Doing it this way all members within my refresh cycle never lose their state of refresh for more than a few seconds, if that.
I always include BLMs in my refresh cycle, their damage dealing spells aid in killing of the mob faster and it is their responibility to manage their hate not mine. DRKs or melees with mage subs are last in my priority list and go into my 'others', or last priority. They get refreshed every 3 cycles or so, if the DRK is pulling with magic I try to give them refresh more often but usually not.

If you invite a RDM into a party that is configed with all members having mana dont expect that RDM to have everyone with refresh at all times, it unrealistic and a waste of the RDMs mana. I've run into this issue with partys that have multiple DRKs and PLD for tank.

Also, the mentality that the only thing a RDM is good for is refresh is not very realisic considering we are the only ones that can get enfeebles to reliable stick to harder mobs and unless there is a BRD in party most mobs need to be Dispelled. Gravity is also a very nice exclusive spell helpful when things get out of hand. All in all RDMs are really what SE touts them to be and that is a "jack of all trades" capable of filling in and adapting to most party configurations to make the XP flow as fast as possible =D

Thanks^^
#73 Jun 20 2004 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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219 posts
Quote:
FFXI is for my pleasure as well as yours. I ain't tryin to gimp anybody but 60k is 60k. I have a full time job and a wife and daddy I do what I can when I can. I'm not a die hard 24/7 FFXI nut (though I'd like to be) but if I spent all my time farming or synthing I'd be no where!


this type of attitude is absolutely fine - when you solo. if you join my party by level 33, don't have up to date spells/level-appropriate gear and use the excuse that you "can't spend all your time farming or synthing or you'd be nowhere," don't be surprised when we won't spend our time bothering with someone who'll detract from a party instead of enhancing it. you may be a really swell guy, who's always kind to animals and small children, but you'll still be getting the boot. rdm missing a rarely used spell or two? fine. rdm wearing a few bits of armor that could use updating? no problem. rdm in their 30's who doesn't have dispel because it costs 60k? /kick.

how you choose to play IS "your business," but it becomes everyone else's business as soon as your choices affect them. because as you said, "FFXI is for my pleasure as well as yours." having you in a party will deprive 5 other people of their pleasure, because you're unwilling to stop leveling for long enough to properly equip yourself.

most of the people i've met who have half empty spellbooks, or wear armor they should've upgraded 15 levels ago, use the "i pay real money every month and i can do whatever i want. and i don't have time to (do anything that requires effort), i have a life!" excuse (the others usually turn out to be in 6th grade.). well hey, i have a life too. and a job with long hours, and a family, and friends, and all of the other responsibilities and obligations those players probably do. yes, this is just a game, but the people on the other side of the monitor are real. i have enough respect for them to not waste their time showing up for a party with crap gear, missing spells and an underleveled subjob.

any level 21 who's still running around sporting bits of newbie RSE is not too busy to farm. they're lazy (usually selfish and lacking in maturity as well, but not always.). i understand how much farming can suck, but it's part of the game. your job has a 60k spell to get at level 32. my main job has an expensive level 32 spell, too. it's called erase. it costs 400k on my server. lots of jobs have pricey items they need to save for during relatively early levels; 60k isn't that bad. dispel is a class defining spell that will be of use to your parties as soon as you can learn it, and they will be justified in expecting you to have it. erase is also a class defining spell, and it's also useful, but it's really not necessary until mid-level. so no party would expect their whm to have it as soon as they dinged 32.

you're hindering your parties if you don't have dispel and otherwise up to date spells and armor. i won't join a party without every spell in my pack that i'll be able to learn in the next few levels (including erase, i bought that at 30 or so.). farming with a lowbie whm wasn't particularly fun, but i do everything within my power to be sure i'm an asset to parties, not a leech. taking the time to do things like that even when it's not fun, always pays off. you reap what you sow.
#74 Jun 20 2004 at 1:01 AM Rating: Default
Refresh does not take 18 seconds to cast.
It takes like, 8 seconds.
Oh and I quit RDm temprorarily (its at 50) because it started to annoy me a bit and I wanted to try something new (warrior).
I can say I did enjoy RDM but at 41+ it got a tad boring.
I spent more time refreshing people than anything else and I got sick of it.

Edited, Sun Jun 20 02:03:12 2004 by Strifeman
#75 Jun 20 2004 at 1:47 AM Rating: Decent
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125 posts
simply put. and i hardly see how ppl can disagree. rdm's are 2nd rate healer, 2nd rate nukers, and 3rd rate melee'rs. dont get me wrong, enfeebles that rdm have are VERY useful, thats not the main point. if you are fighting a very tough monster and your whm is out of mp, refresh em. save your party and dont be so selfish.
#76 Jun 20 2004 at 1:56 AM Rating: Good
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2,207 posts
My 2 cents worth:

I tend to cut a new party a lot of slack when it comes to calls for refresh. There are a lot of goober rdm's out there, and understand this can be get people into a pattern. What I cannot abide is people being downright stupid:

1. If you ask for refresh just after I cast it on someone else, you will annoy me. It has a 20 second cool down time, and asking me isn't going to speed that up any.

2. If you are a melee, with no MP, and you start telling me to refresh more, especially when I've been doing it optimally, you will annoy me.

3. Further melees, if you tell me to refresh someone who is already refreshed, I will be annoyed. Same goes for the people who actually have the spell on them.

4. If you are max MP, or very close to it and not in the process of heavy casting, if you ask me for refresh, you will annoy me.

5. If you insist on telling me every time your refresh drops for 1 second while I'm preping to cast it on you, you will annoy me.

6. If you annoy me too much, I will leave.

There is some give on this. My perma probably knows my cycle down pat, so I have absolutely no problem if they crime up and say they need refresh if I missed it.
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