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My Guide to Working with JapaneseFollow

#1 Aug 26 2004 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Admins, I was hoping you might sticky this, or at least throw it in the guides section. Thanks!
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A Guide to Partying with the Japanese

Sections:
I. Introduction and Goals
II. Getting Started
III. Getting Invited/Getting that LFP Japanese Player
IV. Japanese Courtesy Ė Interacting with Nihonjin, and not looking like an ****
V. Saying Goodbye
VI. Using and Understanding, In-Game Body Language: Speaking without Words
VII. Closing
VIII. Cultural, Language, and Cross-Cultural General Gaming Resources

I.

So, itís happened to all of us. Weíre LFP, and the only parties in the area are Japanese. I know this happens to me a lot, considering I can normally only play at relatively late NA hours (when the Japanese have started to play). Or, maybe itís the other way around. Your party has everything you could possibly need, except a white mage. Then you see him, an uber-well equipped white mage whoís LFP, but has {Japanese} {Please} in his search info.

This guide is here to help you survive those situations. Itíll touch on some important aspects, like language (spoken and visual), acceptable and unacceptable behavior, some cultural differences, etc. It will probably not help you in every situation, but hopefully youíll be a little more prepared.

Most importantly, I want to show you that the language/culture barrier is NOT insurmountable. SquareEnix made the difficult decision about making the servers unified because, as they put it ďIt would help to unify players by allowing them to experience the cultures and languages of places foreign to them, in game and out.Ē Why cut yourself off from that? To block yourself off from the majority of players on the server, youíre missing half of the game, and half of the fun.

II.

First things first: Language. You speak English, they speak Japanese. What are you ever to do!?
Simple, learn some Japanese.
Chances are the Japanese party, or Japanese player, has some experience with the English language, even if it is only from their middle school days. Now, Iím not expecting you to go out and become fluent. But I am expecting you to print out a hiragana chart, and a katakana chart, and maybe even memorize them if you so choose. There will be some links for these near the end of the guide. You will use these to decipher the kana youíll see quite often in game and translate it over into Roman characters which will be easier for you to deal with. The more you do this, the quicker youíll get used to them. Eventually youíll begin to memorize them just from reading them so much and no translation will even be necessary!
Now some of you are probably asking, why should I learn their language? Simple, itís called mutual respect.
The Japanese have to learn not only 2 written syllabaries (kana), they also have to learn Chinese characters (Kanji), and 'Romanji' or Romance characters. Sadly, in most countries that speak romance languages, people only ever learn the Romance character set. This is a bad thing. One of the first things you can do to help prepare yourself better for the game, as well as in every day life, is to learn the 2 basic kana sets, Hiragana and Katakana.

Theyíre normally the first characters taught to small children in Japan, in fact you can find childrenís libraries written entirely in Hiragana and Katakana. When you look at the charts, youíre going to notice that theyíre used to make the same sounds. So they must be interchangeable, right!?

Wrong!

Hiragana is used for native Japanese words. By that I mean words which are 100% Japanese in origin. Katakana is used for borrowed words. If you see something written in Katakana then your first thought should be to try sounding it out. Many times it will sound vaguely familiar.

Hiragana and Katakana are what are called "syllabaries." A syllabary is like an alphabet, but instead of each letter having its own independent sound, it's based on a few key syllables. In Japanese, those syllables would be "A" (like in car), "I" (like in eek), "U" (like in oooooooooh), "E" (like eh), and "O" (like oh). Now, the syllables are made by just popping a consonant in front of that. So the second part of the syllabary, the k column, would be "ka" "ki" "ku" "ke" and "ko". Respectively, other columns follow the same pattern with 1 or 2 exceptions.

Now is when you should go print out those hiragana and katakana charts!

Now, you may be wondering "Great, so now I understand what all those squiggles mean. It doesn't help me if I can sound them out but have no clue what it IS that I'm sounding out." This is where lists common phrases, dictionaries, etc come in. The more familiar you make yourself with Japanese, the more youíll know, and the less you have to look up.

Iíve thrown in a few online guides to conversational Japanese, and some links to lists of common FFXI phrases. If you donít understand what someone in your Japanese party says, more than likely you can choose to disregard it. Or you can make a note to try to figure it out later. Thatís 100% up to you. Try to figure out what you can.

Once again, Iím not trying to say that you should become fluent in Japanese, Iím simply trying to say that you should become familiar with their kana, and be prepared to encounter it.

III.

So you want to join that Japanese party, or you want that LFP Japanese player to join yours. Time to make your introductions. If youíre just beginning, and donít want to take a whack at using Romanji, you can simply say {Excuse meÖ} {Help!} {Do you need it?} {Invite to join party} {Thank you!}. The auto-translate function in the game is a million times more useful than many give it credit for. If youíre not used to using it, type in the first 1 or 2 letters of what you want to say and hit tab. This should bring up a listing of things which match up.

This alone will work on 90% of the parties out there. If not, you can choose to wait longer, or else actually use some Japanese. This is where your Useful phrases guide will come in very useful! The most important thing here is to communicate using every tool you have at your disposal. The more you use the tools, the better youíll get with them. And the better you get with them, the more natural theyíll seem.

Be as respectful and polite as you possibly can. If the phrase guide youíre looking at has listings for formal and informal versions of things, use the formal versions. Youíre obviously a foreigner whoís trying to speak to native speakers in their language, and the least you can do is be polite to them while doing it.

If it still doesnít work out for you, you might want to move on. Its better not to pester, so cut your losses and wait for the next party to come along. This leads us to our next section: Japanese courtesy.

IV.

The Japanese are a very closed, private, respectful people. Despite coming a huge way into the modern world, and being a society at the head of the technological frontiers, theyíre still heavily rooted in ages old tradition. This is both advantageous, and disadvantageous for you.

First, expect to be treated a little different. Youíre a foreigner. Japanese as a closed people have never been huge fans of foreigners. They instinctively put other Japanese before foreigners. Its nothing personal, its thousands of years of culture showing themselves. Deal with it.

Secondly, donít pester. The Japanese are shy and reserved normally. Donít pester. The same goes with NA parties too. Pestering makes you look like a 2 year old.

Thirdly, be as polite as possible. Some things are commonly accepted informally, others arenít.

Finally, donít join a Japanese party and expect to leave 20 minutes later. The Japanese are extremely, extremely loyal. It used to be believed in Japan that when someone worked for a company, they were going to work there for life. If they were lucky enough, and had moved far enough up the ladder at their company, they could be buried in their company owned graveyard. They are loyal.

So what this should say to you is that you shouldnít join a Japanese party expecting to fake a d/c, or to leave after a short period of time. Itís rude towards NA players, and the rudeness is amplified towards members of Asian cultures.

Donít talk an over abundance. A lot of Asian gamers find that people who talk a lot are annoying, or at least disruptive. Not all, but a lot. This shouldnít be a problem unless you decided to get fluent in Japanese.

Now youíre in the party and you have a rough idea how to behave, you might wonder how to actually do your job without being able to talk, or at least not being able to say much.

SimpleÖ most jobs donít require that much communication. A white mage knows their job. They do it without needing to be told how and when to do it. In fact the only job which really requires a decent amount of communication is thief. And thatís just to organize your SA+TA. 99.9% of conversation in a PT isnít really necessary when you think about it.

V.

Now, youíve enjoyed your party, and had a good time. But, itís a few hours later and you really must be going. You do NOT want to leave unannounced. This is a universal rule also. Do not leave without letting the party know youíre leaving. And say it in downtime so battle spam doesnít make it disappear before they get a chance to read it. I normally announce a half hour, 15 minutes, and 5 minutes before I have to go. It allows the leader to begin looking for someone to replace you.

Say your goodbyes, bow, and head on your way. You just survived your first party with the Japanese! Easy, wasnít it?

VI.

One of the most common mistakes people make is saying something like ďI canít communicate with people who speak Japanese!Ē Thatís a lie. Humans, as a species, more than likely didnít have spoken languages until somewhere around 15000 BC, well after we grace the globe. If monkey-men could coordinate themselves well enough to bring down a mammoth, you can coordinate yourselves enough to play a video game together.

The key is body language. They have emotes in the game for a reason. Use them! A bow is universally understood as a sign of respect, and often gratitude. Crying means youíre sad or upset. Give a rose to someone as a playful fun gesture. Your imagination is the limit. As a side note I always carry around a stack of roses just to give them out to people.

VII.

I hope this guide helps you all out. Like I said, it wonít really make up for not being able to speak the language, but hopefully it points you in the right directions. Listed below are some links to help you. If you have any comments or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, please feel free to let me know!

VIII.

Here are some links that will help you out:

Kids-Japan: A website made by some school students in Japan. It discusses learning Japanese, and has some very nice hiragana charts. It also has a primer on Japanese culture. Itís a great resource.

Japanese Kanji: Another awesome site. Here they have downloadable flashcards, as well as some lessons on conversational Japanese.

Shigemo: Nihongo Guide: This site provides excellent listings of common phrases specifically for FFXI in Japanese and English. Use it like your life depends on it!

Jenova Project Common japanese Listing: Another listing of useful Japanese words and phrases.

Japanese Dirty Words: It doesn't quite have what you may think. It contains a lot of Japanese slang that you might encounter. Just a note, on the more vulgar things listed.. don't trust them. Japanese as somewhat of a rule is a very clean language. Most of the insults are fairly subtle, and you probobly shouldn't be hurling them in game anyways.

Edited, Thu Aug 26 18:38:10 2004 by scubamage
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#2 Aug 26 2004 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Good guide...now let's see how many people use it correctly.
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#3Fike, Posted: Aug 26 2004 at 4:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're kidding right? Can you also write one on how to wipe your own ***? Here's my guide to posting stupid crap like this on forums: don't.
#4 Aug 26 2004 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Most JP party's i've been in(alot), they talk a good amount of the time, even during battle. so to say they dont really like to chat during party's is misleading i think.

otherwise, well done.
#5 Aug 26 2004 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, ignoring moronic comments, does anyone have any CONSTRUCTIVE criticism for this guide? I'd like to improve it.

Edit: Point taken about the chatter in party. A lot of Japanese I've talked to have complained what when in NA parties they talk too much. However the JP Parties I've been in have been mixed either way. I figured I'd throw it in.. rather be safe than sorry, yesno?

Edited, Thu Aug 26 17:58:05 2004 by scubamage
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#6 Aug 26 2004 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice thread.

Loved most of it, except the intro to VI...
Anyhow, I'll be tagging this to use as a later reference.

Also, Japanese are mixxed when talking in parties. Those that I've partied with are either really quiet or really talkative. I remember being in a full JP party, except for me of course, and they would talk constantly, heheh. I thought it was rather neat. Especially when they complemented me as I had to go.

Edited, Thu Aug 26 18:04:13 2004 by Dedendre
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#7 Aug 26 2004 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I can see them probably complaining about NA chatter, but whether or not and JP's have complained about that when in mostly NA party's i dont know, cause i cant read what they say :P

shya know..
#8Fike, Posted: Aug 26 2004 at 5:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you need a guide to 'work with the Japanese' then you are either:
#9 Aug 26 2004 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Most JP party's i've been in(alot), they talk a good amount of the time, even during battle. so to say they dont really like to chat during party's is misleading i think.


Your correct and incorrect.. I actually have an advantage over most NA players being that 1) i can read a little but if Japanese and 2) My GF that also plays speaks fluent Japanese

with that said when I get invited into JP parties ( and i do quite often) I ususally either ask or write down what they say to ask later.. and from what i found out MOST Japanese do pretty much what we do with spells, special abilities and so on.. they make /p or /em things to go with them.. if you watch what is on the screen you'll notice that most of what you see is the same thing over and over.. they really dont have much conversation in party chat, usually discussing what they want to pull or if they should pull it..

lastly my little addition to the Guide

1 - When you join a Japanese party BOW dont wave .. it shows a high lvl of respect to the party leader and the party (yes they do bow over in japan so they do it in the game). If you've never been out of the states (mexico and canada dont count) you may not realise that most of the world sees us as uneducated in how the rest of the world works. So just the small bowing gesture shows a lot.

2 - To go along with the amount of time your going to play. Scubamage is right dont join a Japanese party thinking your going to party for only 20 min .. ALSO when you join let them know from the start how long you intend to say with them.. if its an hour say so if its 2 hours say so.. and let them know as stated above when time is comming up.

3 - Lastly if you want to improve relationships with them DO NOT CALL THEM **** .. even if you think your in a total NA party you may not be.

Scubamage this is a great guide.
#10 Aug 26 2004 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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scubamage the Stupendous wrote:
Ok, ignoring moronic comments
If this was directed at me, I said what I said because of the bulk of the posting that's been going on in the past week.

Really, though, the guide's good. A knowledge of Hiragana and Katakana should be more than enough to do basic stuff -- Kanji is truly a pain -- and I think the guide emphasizes that enough. Perhaps the other thing you could add would be a link to one of those "common Japanese phrases" threads, and hopefully that will help people get familiar with Japanese and reinforce their kana later on.
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Read the blog "by Robert J. Funches" at http://www.robertjfunches.com/blog/

The Vana'diel Lobby:
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#11 Aug 26 2004 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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TheFunch wrote:
scubamage the Stupendous wrote:
Ok, ignoring moronic comments
If this was directed at me, I said what I said because of the bulk of the posting that's been going on in the past week.

Really, though, the guide's good. A knowledge of Hiragana and Katakana should be more than enough to do basic stuff -- Kanji is truly a pain -- and I think the guide emphasizes that enough. Perhaps the other thing you could add would be a link to one of those "common Japanese phrases" threads, and hopefully that will help people get familiar with Japanese and reinforce their kana later on.


Hehe, not you at all ^^ I'm referring to people who's posts have fallen below the default filter due to being completely idiotic and completely unconstructive ^^ Your post was neither of the two! I'm gonna take your advice and edit a little more. Thank you ^^
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#12 Aug 26 2004 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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You know, this is the first time I've noticed that my filter was on.

o.O

Don't know how or why it was on (thought it had been turned off) but it is, so the thread went:

Guide
My post
Mateyy's post
Your post addressing Mateyy's comments
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FFXI: Thefunch, 50 THF/30 RNG, Bastok, Siren,
Read the blog "by Robert J. Funches" at http://www.robertjfunches.com/blog/

The Vana'diel Lobby:
http://www.vanadiellobby.com
Search Final Fantasy XI characters across all Worlds at:
http://wp.vanadiellobby.com
and find and submit World Pass codes with MooglePass:[sm]
http://mp.vanadiellobby.com
Plus buy FFXI merchandise from the Lobby Gift Shop:
http://www.cafeshops.com/lobby/
#13 Aug 26 2004 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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great guide, i'm very interested in learning basic japanese custom so that i can play with them. every japanese player i've ever had the experience of playing with ended up being great parties. example:

4 NA and 2 JP in party. in one hour we managed to rack up 5000+ xp in yhoatar jungle doing mandys. the japanese players WERE quiet, only speaking in macros for abilities. however, they never missed a cast, renkai, or made any mistakes that i could see.

they point i'm driving towards is that when i played with them i felt i had to be at the top of my game, and i was. i didn't blow a pull, hit a wrong macro, or miss a renkai once. i felt i was representing my fellow NA players and essentially i was. Play well and you will be respected. I got a couple bows when we were all done and it felt good.
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#14 Aug 26 2004 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a serious question,if I become familiar enough with the kana to understand it and even communicate with it,is there any way I can use the japanese symbols myself? I would really like to learn,the auto translate just doesnt do it sometimes...

The JP players can use roman characters,so can I use japenese characters?
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#15 Aug 26 2004 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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This thread has everything you'd need to know about using Japanese in game as well as English. Sadly you'd need to find an import of the game, or at least the Japanese version of POL.

This thread Is similar to the previous, but it has a little different information. [/link]

Edited, Thu Aug 26 18:42:22 2004 by scubamage
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#16 Aug 26 2004 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Japanese do not routinely talk about you in party talk so please do not concern yourself with that insecurity. It is the custom to keep their true feelings hidden from public view rather than announce them. This is evident in the structure of the language.

I started learning Japanese (again) after starting this game. I have a lovely tutor who is a native Japanese person living in my country. She confirmed that indeed, it is commonplace when talking face to face with someone to change what is being said at the last second based on the body language you are sensing.

My advice for learning Kana is to use flash cards. Make them up yourself from the resources given here. You will learn kana so easily in your spare time - when looking for groups - when on the bus or other transport...

No doubt, given the relative simplicity of sounding out kana to yourself following the general vowel pronounciation guide will soon have you learning some useful Japanese!!

The vowel sounds are a, i, u, e, o

Use the following sentence to remember:

Ah, we soon get old

A long version of the vowel is often written in Romaji with a line above the vowel. Pronounce this the same as the normal vowel, only extend the sound for the duration of two vowels...that is to say, the sound should not change only last longer.

I always wanted to learn Japanese but never made the time to do so. My mild addiction to this game has motivated me to learn Japanese again. However I have never had trouble getting parties with Japanese people so long as a) I am the only person seeking in a particular role (they will choose Japanese players first for alkl sorts of valid, non racist reasons so do not take it personally) or b) one of the Japanese people on my friends list sees me seeking.

I also make a lot of my own parties (which is in part how I end up on Japanese people friends list lol) and inviting a Japanese player whether or NOT they have comment text indicating Japanese Only, is quite easy so long as you follow the rules quoted by scubamage.

I usually go with:
{Hello!} {Looking for Members} BLM RDM RNG THF DRK 55-56 {Invite to Join Party}?
Or as much as I can fit.

The prospective member will do a /sea all on you to check some basic details such as your rank, search comments, subjob so try not to be anon when you ask.

If there is no reply after a minute I usually do not send another /tell. If it was an English member I was asking I would send {Excuse me...} If you are there and do not wish to party please say {No Thanks}

Usually I wait a good 4 or 5 minutes before going to another player. I do not think it is fair to players whether NA or JP to seek and /tell say 3 members to fill one spot. It takes longer to form a group, but you will have a good safe reputation for being respectful and honest in your requests.

Japanese people are generally not in a rush to form a party. They (and the best players in general) would prefer to spend an hour on party formation then a solid 4+ hours levelling than form in 20 minutes and break after an hour due to bad set up, or members that were dragged in urgently to fill a gap. Please consider this when forming or joining a party. It relates to most Japanese parties (due to the experience in the game) and nowadays, many many English parties are the same so this is a growing trend that is positive.

When leaving a party, let the leader know your intentions. If the leader is Japanese and cannot understand then announce to the party. There will usually be someone in there fluent in English that will translate for you. I usually /sea all for jobs suitable to replace me before I announce as well so I have a fair idea of how my announcement will be taken. As it happens I have never needed to leave a Japanese Party. When leaving an English party I show the same respect however I also ask the leader if he would like me to find a replacement. Usually they say yes please and I make it happen. This is a sign of respect for your party regardless of language.

For the non English and non Japanese parties I have been in, there is always someone that knows english so I will tlak in party in English. Usually out of respect the other members will talk English also. Spanish, German, Italian parties come to mind here. The only time I have been unable to communicate effectively is with a Chinese only speaking player.



#17 Aug 26 2004 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Awesome info earthshaker ^^ thanks!
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#18 Aug 26 2004 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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How would I go about being able to write in JP characters on ps2 though? I didn't see anything about that.I would like to be able to communicate with the japanese players in their language but im on ps2 and don't know if it can be done. )=
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#19 Aug 26 2004 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Very helpful. I'm actually going to print out the charts like you reccomended. :) Thank you for supplying the links. :D

I usually stick with a party until it disbands when I play, but what if I have to go? I don't think I have actually used the trasnlator to tell the party that I have to leave soon. Do you have any advice on how to make a phrase using the translator?

I know this is some thing minor, but it would be extremley helpful to those who are frustrated by the translator. I know the hardest part about using it was trying to figure out which words could be translated, and how to phrase them to communicate my needs.
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#20 Aug 26 2004 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Freis wrote:
Very helpful. I'm actually going to print out the charts like you reccomended. :) Thank you for supplying the links. :D

I usually stick with a party until it disbands when I play, but what if I have to go? I don't think I have actually used the trasnlator to tell the party that I have to leave soon. Do you have any advice on how to make a phrase using the translator?

I know this is some thing minor, but it would be extremley helpful to those who are frustrated by the translator. I know the hardest part about using it was trying to figure out which words could be translated, and how to phrase them to communicate my needs.



The shinego nihongo list in the guide has an awesome section on this... the phrases you'd want to use are there :) Here's a little listing of them though

Quote:

I'm leaving soon - Mo sugu deru
Sorry, I have to go in 30 minutes. Ė Gomennasai, ato 30pun gurai de ochimasu.
Sorry, but I have to go now - Sumimasen, ima, ikanakutewa ikemasen
Iím going to the toilet - Toire (toilet) ittekimasu
I need to reboot, be back soon - PC o REBOOT ****** sugu modorimasu
I'm going to get a signet - shigu ittekimasu
I'm going to my mog house - mogurimasu
Stay here please - Kokoni ite kudasai


There's a lot more listed in the link though ^^
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#21 Aug 26 2004 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you. ^-^

One last thing, could you post the actual urls to the links? That way I can copy and paste the urls into the address bar. I am at work and the webbrowser here doesn't allow me to open information in a new window. If I click on a link, and it automatically opens in a new window the window will be blank with no address in the address bar. I tried to fix it, but I don't have proper user access to do so.


I'm sorry to bothersome, but I really do appreciate it. I work twelve hour shifts, so I have plenty of time to read all the information and study it while I am at work. ^^
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#22 Aug 26 2004 at 6:54 PM Rating: Default
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I'd like to point out that Japanese players sometimes DO NOT like NA/EU players period. By using the auto-translate function you are basically saying " I am NA and I want you to join my PT."
Using Romanji is a complete give-away that you are not Japanese, and even insults some of the JPN players. Conversing in characters, if you did not know, is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than typing out the words in Romanji for a JPN player...so by typing it out you are showing you do not speak JP, but are trying to...and probably butchering the language. I use the JP POL client to speak to JPN players in simple character format...I am a lvl 73 pld...and am in a JPN LS...

Please understand that some JPN do not like americans period, this has happened to me, and others...so I say, just don't bother with them if their info says English No thanks...and such. Also...you may sometimes get a reply saying NO ENGLISH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO...don't bother asking why...it's just how some of them think.
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#23 Aug 26 2004 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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Freis wrote:
Thank you. ^-^

One last thing, could you post the actual urls to the links? That way I can copy and paste the urls into the address bar. I am at work and the webbrowser here doesn't allow me to open information in a new window. If I click on a link, and it automatically opens in a new window the window will be blank with no address in the address bar. I tried to fix it, but I don't have proper user access to do so.


I'm sorry to bothersome, but I really do appreciate it. I work twelve hour shifts, so I have plenty of time to read all the information and study it while I am at work. ^^


Its ok :)

http://www.kids-japan.com/
http://www.japanese-kanji.org/
http://shigemo.com/FFXI/nihongo_guide.html
http://www.geocities.com/malla_tobuck/Japanese_List.html
http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/***.htm

Those are the links in order.
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#24 Aug 26 2004 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'd like to point out that Japanese players sometimes DO NOT like NA/EU players period. By using the auto-translate function you are basically saying " I am NA and I want you to join my PT."
Using Romanji is a complete give-away that you are not Japanese, and even insults some of the JPN players. Conversing in characters, if you did not know, is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than typing out the words in Romanji for a JPN player...so by typing it out you are showing you do not speak JP, but are trying to...and probably butchering the language. I use the JP POL client to speak to JPN players in simple character format...I am a lvl 73 pld...and am in a JPN LS...

Please understand that some JPN do not like americans period, this has happened to me, and others...so I say, just don't bother with them if their info says English No thanks...and such. Also...you may sometimes get a reply saying NO ENGLISH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO...don't bother asking why...it's just how some of them think.


The point isn't to hide the fact that you're English. The point is to communicate with the JP players who don't racistly hate English players using their own language, and to not accidenlty offend them.
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#25 Aug 26 2004 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I had played with some Japanese people before but my first all Japanese party came when i first arived in Juno. I had begun my chocobo quest and I was going to go to the other areas in Juno and talk to all the NPC's to find some quest and learn more of the history of Vana'diel (something I find increadably interesting and i don't think enough people pay attention too considering they it gives you insite to why you do these certain missions and gives clues to what future expantions are going to have). All of the sudden, just after feeding my the chocobo for the first time, I get an invite to a party.

I thought it strange since i didn't have my flag up but ,"Why not? It will kill some time and I am not likely to get into another party this late anyways." I accept and then i see that they are all speaking Japaneese.

So there was me (thf/mnk), another english speaker who was a rdm/whm and the rest were Japanese people who filled out the rest of the roles of the party inclucing a whm/blm.

As soon as they gathered everyone we headed down to Qufim. I was nervous because it was my first time there and since i was new to Juno I didn't even have a map. The english speaking rdm was kind of a dork and ditched us after a few battles (he was only attacking and never used any spells). But even with five of us lv 20ers it was awsome.

We were kicking butt and taking names. Mostly because of the skill chains and magic bursts. They taught me more about skill chains in those two hours of playing than anyone than I had learned in two weeks of partying on the dunes.

They used the auto translator to show me what weapon skill to use and when to use it. I was lv 20 when I started and almost lv 23 when we ended. Not too shabby for a five person party and none of us an advanced job.

There was a lot of Japanese text going by but it was mostly showing tp, mp, or hp levels. And a lot of the same text over and over so I imagined that it was emotes the words they cry out when they hit a weapon skill or abillity macro. I found that odd because I was told over and over not to do that because no serious or skilled player would do that. Yet here were these focused, oviouly experienced, and very skilled people using them. I guess that disspells that dumb rumor.

After that day I pestered all my friend telling them that they had to join up with an all Japanese party even if it's only once. It's an experience all unto itself. At the very least it will help you empathise with the one Japanese person in your party who can't understand what is being said because no one else in the party will use the auto translate yet is working his lil' tarutaru butt off. ^_^

------------------


A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can see from the top of a mountain.
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#26 Aug 27 2004 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
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This is easily one of the most informative posts I have seen in a long time. Rate up!

Like Earthshaker, after starting this game I have kinda picked up on my Japanese again and surprisingly, I still remember most of it.

Sometimes while LFP I just sit in Jeuno and watch the JP spam /shouts going by, writing down new Kanji that I would like to learn and trying to decipher what is being said.

Anyway, one thing I would like to add to the guide is that the Japanese are extremely modest and polite people. Often, how can I say this...? I guess you could say "putting themselves down" or denying the praise after receiving a compliment or even meeting for the first time.

Now, I'm not sure how polite a PT of Japanese 13 year old kids is going to be to you, the "foreigner", but most mature Japanese players will take it as you really trying to put forth the effort to impress and get along with them.

In one of the links that Scubamage provided- http://shigemo.com/FFXI/nihongo_guide.html - there was a one phrase that struck me as being very useful to say in a JP PT right after you've said your 'hello's':

Machigai ga areba odorokanaide - If there are mistakes, don't be surprised.

This is showing the modesty that most Japanese show and also starts you with a clean slate going into a JP PT and not being labeled as an "idiot NA". If you mess up, it's expected, but if not, it will earn you more respect and maybe a few /flist invites ^^

A few random things that I often do when PTing with Japanese players:

San- I'm sure you've all seen the Karate Kid movies and how Mr. Miyagi refers to Daniel as "Daniel-san". It can be loosely translated to "Mr." in English. So if you feel like it, tack it onto the end of the player's name when referring to them for some added respect. Oh and NEVER use it after your own name!

Minna- In Japanese, 'minna' means 'everyone'. So when reffering to the PT, I always say 'minna' or even better, 'minna-san'.

W- The Japanese verb 'to laugh' is 'warau'. Just like we do, JP's use shortened terms of words to cut down on typing time. So 'w' for JP's is equivalent to 'lol' for us. Also common is 'ome' the shortened form of 'omedetou' which means 'congratulations' and 'ari' the shortened form of 'arigatou' which, as Styx has taught us, means 'thank you'.

Bow- As has been said before, bow, don't wave. Bowing in Japan is the equivalent of shaking hands for us. Do it along with saying 'douzo yoroshiku onegai shimasu' or the more informal 'yoroshiku' which is roughly translated as "I humbly ask you to be nice to me". A common greeting in Japan.

That's all for now. Once again Scubamage, awesome post and I hope you don't mind me adding this little segement of my own ^^




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