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Art of Leadership: Strategic, Wise, and Prepared in VanadielFollow

#1 Oct 08 2004 at 2:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Art of Leadership:
Strategic, Wise, and Prepared
in Vana'diel


I have recalled personal experiences, and browsed through quotes from ancient strategists, "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, and through the FFXI: Strategy Guide for Fall 2003. I have came up with "The Art of Leadership: Strategic, Wise, and Prepared in Vana'diel." I would like to say that some of the things will be in likelyhood to things from many of these references. However, i will pay respects to them at the end of the post.

Update: This is not the first time this has been posted. I orginated it in CaitSith and with the nice responses and strong ideas placed with them, i have updated this. Thanks CaitSith-ians.

I have broke up "The Art of Leadership: Strategic, Wise, and Prepared in Vana'diel" into these parts:


BEING A LEADER:
Leader
: (1) : a person who directs a military force or unit (taken from the Online Dictionary from Merriam&Webster)

1) A leader that is not liked, mean, or distrustful is not a help to the party. They are not a leader of the party.

2) Remember to be friendly but serious about the situation. Remember you are there to help lead the party, not to be their best friend.

3) Dont forget that you should be Confident, but not over confident for it breeds ignorance and stubborness.

4) A leader should be quick thinking for if a plan falls through they can think on their feet and get the party into safety or come up with a new plan without stalling precious time.

PUTTING TOGETHER A PARTY:

1) Before forming the party, check to make sure each person's subjob is appropriate for them. You dont want to invite a WAR/WHM and get screwed over.

2) When forming a party make sure THESE Three jobs are COVERED CONFIDENTLY: Tank (99% of time should have WAR subbed), Healer, and Puller. The leader should not be the PULLER. Nor should the TANK! The reason i say the leader should not be the puller is that there is a good chance that the puller could die. The leader, should not be in the position to die so easily. However that is a choice upon the leader. However, the leader needs to remain WITH the group if something is to happen. A puller is away from the group alot of the time. A leader doesnt know whats going on if they are away. Same reasoning goes with children. If you dont know where you're children are, then how can you know what they are doing?


3) Make sure that you also chose players who can skillchain effectively with the party. Before inviting ask them what weapon they are using so you can get an idea for SC and magic bursts.

4) When inviting a mage, check to see if they have updated spells. Not everyone will have every spell so far, but make sure they have the main ones. You dont want to get into a tough battle with a BLM without Escape, or a RDM without Dispel, or even a WHM without the correct Protects. The same can be said for equips for all jobs.

5) Dont always hit up the people seeking to join parties. Look around for people not in parties and not seeking. Usually those are the real gems.


GOING INSIDE THE JOB: What to consider.

1) Warrior: Proficient Tank. Front Line. Can take damage well. Able to use multiple equips, and can SC regularly. Nice DD.

2) Monk: Subtle Tank (war sub). Front Line. Great DD in later levels. Monk's abilities are nice and useful in a party.

3) Black Mage: NOT A TANK!(common sense) Back Line. Great DD. Black Mages have nice spells for party uses..(escape)

4) White Mage: DUH NOT TANK! Back Line. Healer purposes.

5) Red Mage: Weak Tank unless supreme sub job. Front/Back Line. Can Melee and Magic decently. Best with Enfeeble and Enhancements. Very versatile. Party friendly spells (Refresh, Dispel)

6) Theif: Not an efficient Tank. Front Line/Puller. Great Puller, usually best at it. SATA is a great attribute to the party.

7) Paladin: Perfect Tank..(war subbed). Front Line. Can take damage quite well. Not a big DD, but best at taking it.

8) Dark Knight: NOT A TANK. Front Line. Great DD. However, most DRK have a bad rep. With THF sub great with SA. Not such party friendly abilities. However the ABSORB abilities are party friendly. (With one example fro Sojo- ABS-AGI mixed with BLM FROST slows the mob down considerably)

9) Beastmaster: Tankable(war sub). Loner. Front Line. If invited to pt, best for attacking, and keeping aggro off pt with useful beastman. Perfers to solo. However, is a great crowd controler.

10) Ranger: not a great tank. Back/Middle Line. Great DD when it does hit. Speedy and flexible. I have been told to add RNG to Front Line because their nicks that they get on the mob add tp and with THF or NIN subbed they can do other damage. However, considering that the job of a ranger is to THROW/SHOOT/Or use arrows or bolts if it more considerable that a RNG should not be up front.

11) Bard: not a tank. Front/Back/Middle Line. Reduces downtime with party friendly songs. Very helpful

12) Summoner: NOT A TANK! Back/Middle Line. Great pt buffing and escaping friendly avatars. Useful.

13) Samuari: Tankable (war sub). Front Line. THF sub can deliver nice damage. Good DD. Ability to SC with just about any PT member.

14) Ninja: Great Tank (war sub). Front Line. Utsusemi:Ichi great for blink tanking (when it works). With THF can SA well. Dual Wield a definate bonus. PT Friendly.

15) Dragoon: Tankable(war sub). Front Line. Wyvern is a good bonus. Can cause considerable damage, and has some nice abilities.


GOING INSIDE THE PARTY: What to do, what to expect, and what to change; Setting the example.

1) Be clear of when the party starts and when the party ends.
Check to see how long poeple can stay, so people don't leave 15-20 minutes later. However, some people do have emergencies and never know.

2) Remember most people have been in parties before, and they think they know what their jobs are in this one. This party is different. Make sure you let each person know what their job is. Make sure these jobs inside the party are covered:
Tank, Secondary Tank, Healer, Back up healer.

3)MAKE SURE that the tank is the person with the highest defense. IF you have two warriors (one galka, the other elvaan), Just because the Galka has hulky HP doesnt mean crap. If the Elvaan has VIT boosters and all kinda defense stuff, he's the one to go with. That Galka's hp will fall quick if you go on mere hp alone

4) Dont forget to be fair and just. Even take a vote on certain plans of action. It lets everyone feel like they are in on the decision making. But let those know who's ideas were not accepted, know why they weren't. If it is a vote, let them know that if it doesn't work out the majority way, you will try the minority way.


CHOOSING YOUR DESTINATION: Using Strategy and Common-sense

1)"Oh look! there's 100 other parties here, well just squeeze in somewhere." NO! BAD BAD BAD! It becomes a waste of time, and a drain on the exp roll. Find other places. EXPLORE! There's many other places you can go to fight. Don't just find common areas. however, talk it over with your party before you even venture off to any place to begin with. This keeps everyone from saying, "But we're already here, lets not move."

2) Before you decide where you want to exp, take a scan of that area through the search ability. (it's actually a nice tool) Check to see you're level range in that area. Then check how many people's names are in Yellow/Orange. Those are the PT leaders there. If you have been to this area before, then you might understand how many PT's can fit in a certain space. I.E. Garlaige Citadel. For effective exping only i'd say about 8-9 parties in your level range. 1 in a pop hallway. 2 by the banishing gate. the other 5 along the main hallway and down the stairs. However at one time there can be up to 9 pullers running around. That's a large amount of people to worry about taking exp from your party. Also in the same instance if you see level 40-50's in Yellow/Orange dont worry about them. They are down below the citadel, so no worries for your party)

3) When you finally chose an area, make sure it is well known. Make sure you know something about this area. Which leads me to the next topic.


USING THE FIVE STRATEGIC ASSESSMENTS FROM SUN TZU: The Way, The Weather, The Terrain, The Leadership, and the Discipline; Vana'diel Style

1) THE WAY: A leader makes sure everyone is on the same page, and knows the objective through justice, discipline, and rewards. When everyone is united they will share defeat and victory without fearing the dangers of Vana'diel.

2) THE WEATHER: Make sure that every condition is in your favor for weather. Make sure that you can handle any change in weather patterns based on Elementals. Know where Elementals spawn or be aware of them at all times.

3) THE TERRAIN: First know the land. Know everything about the area. Where paths are, what certain areas contain what mobs. Know how difficult it will be to travel the area from camp to camp if necessary. When you know these things, then its time to turn to aggressive mobs, linking mobs, and quick zoning. Make sure paths are clear and regrouping points are made. DON'T CAMP IN A LINKABLE/AGGRESSIVE AREA. "Oh look lets camp here, where GOB's that will kill us in 2 hits pop!" <shakes head>

4) THE LEADERSHIP: A leader should be able to wisely plan a course of action. He must be trustworthy to all the other party members. Though a leader should show bravery, courage, and no signs of weakness, they should show compassion for the other members. Courage to stand against the mob and only to seek certain victory opportunities. Make sure that you have disciplinary actions in place for those who put the party in danger, but rewarding actions for those who perform beyond expectations.

5) THE DISCIPLINE: Make sure everyone is organized and knows where to stand in combat. Make sure it is clear what each person's job is. Also check up on Home Points. Try to make sure they are near by, you dont want to wait for them to travel back or wait for a raiser to come strollin by. Make sure everyone knows how the treasure process will go, and that everyone has supplies for prolonged parties. For the supplies considering food, try to make sure that each person's food that they bring (if any) is suitable to their job. For instance, you dont want a BLM to bring in some Mithkabobs and start meleeing, nor would it be wise to have the TANK bring in Mithkabobs for those increase attack and decrease def. Tank's shoudl bring in Rice Balls, Fish Kabobs and such. Mages should bring pies.

Though each leader might know these five things, those who actually put them to exceptional use and know how to use them effectively will prevail, but those who do not will be defeated.


PREPARING THE BATTLEFIELD FOR YOUR PARTY: Set-ups, Where people go, and etc.

1) Make sure everyone knows their positions. Melee in the front, mages in the back. BRD's jump between the two. RNG's in the distance.

2) The operation of a party lies in unity of the party's members. When the party is unified they will fight bravely and whole-heartedly without being told to. If any of the party is disliking toward eachother, and doesn't fight well, those who notice and are seeking parties will not be eager to join. If advice from member's is unheard by the leader, the members will talk amongst themselves and criticize in /tells. If you become a hypocrit, no matter how strong you are, what rank you are, or who you know, you can't stand against a group of joined members. Don't be afraid to get rid of someone if it comes down to it because they are disruptive and destructive to the party. Disciplinary actions are very important in being a party leader.

3) The members of the party who are skilled combatists do not become angered over the little things. Those in the party who are skilled with constant victory do not go into battles afraid nor afraid of death. Therefore, those who plan a course of battle will recieve victory before they fight, while those who dont have a plan, go into the fight with very little chance of victory.

4) A good leader will look for a weaknesses in the opponent, and play off of those weaknesses. Utilize the party members for an effective attack with Skillchains and Magic bursts.

5) If you treat the party well, they will give you their utmost power. However if you are so kind to them that they think you are a pushover, or so conversive with them that they don't listen, then they are useless. Kick them from the party.

6)Praise or Constructively Criticize: Never attack your allies. When giving advice to someone make sure you do it in /tells that way the person doesn't feel pointed out inside the party.

7)If you are fighting, even if you are consistantly gaining victory over many mobs, if you continue to fight for a long time the members will become tired, and irritated. If you stay out too long supplies will drain and you will be left without them. Therefore, schedule breaks. Make them often, but not so often where it drains exp. Make trips back to towns to regain supplies before venturing out again.

8) Explain how the exp will roll. Figure out which is easier, going against VT and IT with downtime with chances of chaining. Or constantly bashing T's with little or NO downtime with low, steady flow of exp.


FINALLY THE BATTLE BEGINS: Waging Battles and what to do.

1) ALWAYS! ALLLLLLLLLWAYS! Start each new party with 2 or more starter fights. Fight Toughs to see how the party interacts in the fights, and how well each is performing. Each person should be at full health during the first fight, but the second fight will surely show you what everyone is made of. If things arent going so well, instruct them before moving on to VT and IT. You dont want to end up face down in the dirt/snow/grass/sand because someone doesnt know what they are doing.

2) Make sure your party's puller understands to pull a mob that is unprepared. This is used mainly against magical mobs. Help them understand that if there is 2 magical mobs nearby DO NOT pull the one that has just used enhancements on itself, of course unless you have a RDM with Dispel, or BRD with Magical Finale.

3) If opponents are many, then split them up. This is only used in numerous mob aggros or links. If you can successfully win the battle, divide the mobs. Keep them appart that way AOE's aren't placed upon each mob (Warcry...etc.)

4) Help fellow parties whenever possible, if it looks victorious for you, dont go into a battle with another pt if death looks possible. You scratch their back, they will more than likely scratch yours.


FINALLY DONT FORGET TO HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!


THANKS GO OUT TO:
I would like to thank the many things that contributed to this. Quotes from Zhuge Liang. Help from Brady Games strategy guide for FFXI: Fall 2003 Version, and the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Also i would like to thank fellow CaitSith-ians who helped me adjust some of these. :)

Some instructions were my own. But here's what contributed and where (I merely translated them into Vana'diel use)

Sun Tzu's Art of War:
--The Five Strategic Assessments
-- Attack when they are unprepared, make your move when they least expect it. (Battle Begins: 2)
-- When you do battle, even if you are winning, if you continue for a long time it will dull your forces and blunt your edge; if you besiege a citadel, your strength will be exhausted. If you keep your armies out in the field for a long time your supplies will be insufficient. (Preparing the Battlefield: 7)
--Even if opponents are numerous, they can be made not to fight. (Battle Begins: 3)
-- Look upon your soldiers as you do infants, and they willingly go into deep valleys with you; look upon your soldiers as beloved children, and they willingly die with you. ALSO MIXED WITH If you are so nice to them that you cannot employ them, so kind to them that you cannot command them, so casual with them that you cannot establish order, they are like spoiled children, useless. (Preparing the Battlefield: 5)

Quotes from Zhuge Liang:
--"The Tao of military operations lies in harmonizing people. When people are in harmony, they will fight naturally, without being exhorted to do so. If the officers and soldiers are suspicious of each other, warriors will not join up; if loyal advice is not heard, small minds will talk and criticize in secret. When hypocrisy sprouts, even if you have the wisdom of ancient warrior kings you could not beat a peasant, let alone a crowd of them. This is why tradition says, "A military operation is like a fire; if it is not stopped, it will burn itself out."' (Preparing the Battlefield: 2)
--"A general that is not popular is not a help to the nation, not a leader of the army." (Being a Leader: 1)
--"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." (Preparing the Battlefield: 3)

BRADY GAMES Strategy Guide for FFXI: Fall Version 2003
--(Battle Begins: 4)
--(Preparing the Battlefield: 6)
--(Being a Leader: 2&3)
--(Going Inside the Party: 1)

Everything else is my own views. Tell me what you think and if you have any extras to add. Thanks everyone!
Once again thanks to those contributors.
--Rebornfenyx--


Edited, Sat Oct 9 03:06:41 2004 by Rebornfenyx

Edited, Sun Oct 10 07:06:11 2004 by Rebornfenyx

Edited, Sun Oct 10 07:16:38 2004 by Rebornfenyx
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~~Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.~~ *Zhuge Liang, Third Century C.E. China*
#2 Oct 08 2004 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Awesome! I think everyone should read this, how do you turn things into stickies?
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#3 Oct 08 2004 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Very nice post, I especially enjoyed the stuff from "The Art of War"

Rate up!
#4 Oct 08 2004 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the post. It has good info and I think it will be very beneficial for my future parties. ^__^
/bow
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#5 Oct 09 2004 at 1:32 AM Rating: Default
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Thank you everyone. I just hope more people look at it. I had 30 or more post from it on my server but not that many form this one. Let's try to keep it visible! I sent it to someone from ALLA hoping it would get into the guide section :)

--Reborn--
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Linkshell~Spirits of the Pheonix~

~~Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.~~ *Zhuge Liang, Third Century C.E. China*
#6 Oct 09 2004 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I really like this! I'm glad to know this stuf, thank you for posting it.
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#7 Oct 09 2004 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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=) I loved the thread, rate up. But there is one thing I would like to mention. I would have to say that the ABS- line of spells for a dark knight are very party friendly, you might have over looked this. When playing blm now and then, I love to see a drk abs-agil, while I use frost, to reduce the targets agility even further.
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#8 Oct 09 2004 at 2:03 AM Rating: Default
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Ya know i completely fergot about the absorb spells! OMG i can't believe i did that. I'm gonna go fix that now. :)

I have a few other things to add as well.

--Reborn--
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Linkshell~Spirits of the Pheonix~

~~Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.~~ *Zhuge Liang, Third Century C.E. China*
#9 Oct 09 2004 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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Nice guide - I've considered writing one of these myself. I find that the importance of a leader is often overlooked in this game. The leader (that is, the guy who actually directs the party's actions, who may not be the official leader) is probably the most important single factor in a party's success (except for possibly the puller - more on that later). I've seen seemingly unworkable parties do very well under a good leader, and great parties flounder under a poor one. For the sake of debate, though, here are a couple things in your guide I disagree with.
Quote:
The leader should not be the PULLER.

In most situations, I actually consider this to be an ideal setup. In a very practical sense, the puller is the real leader of the party: he or she is the only one with direct control over the flow of monsters, and thus the flow of EXP. For the sake of simplicity and stability, it's good to keep the practical leadership and the official leadership in the same person. Or if not for that, if only because many pullers are absolutely awful and will completely ruin your party - if you want a job done right, do it yourself.
Quote:
8) Dark Knight: NOT A TANK. Front Line. Great DD. However, most DRK have a bad rep. With THF sub great with SA. Not such party friendly abilities.

I would argue that the Dark Knight's Absorb-Stat spells are among the most useful enfeebling abilities in the game. One successful Absorb-AGI or VIT will greatly improve the whole party's damage. DRK's are actually low on my list of choices for straight melee damage, but a DRK who knows how to use these spells should be a welcome addition to any party.

There are a couple other things, but it's late. Maybe I'll bring them up if I can find this thread in the morning.
#10 Oct 09 2004 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I understand what you mean about Leader being the puller. However i have been in many situations where that if the leader isnt near the majority of the party that things can happen and unravel the party. Most of the time its because of an aggressive pop. A leader can lead the party to safety and successfully be in watch over the party when he is nearby. I understand what you mean about the exp flow too. I plan to do more Art's like Art of Pulling, Art of Mages, and Art of Tanking.

I added the DRK absorb spells, because i completely fergot about them. But they are up there now.

--Reborn--
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Linkshell~Spirits of the Pheonix~

~~Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.~~ *Zhuge Liang, Third Century C.E. China*
#11 Oct 09 2004 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
4) A good leader will look for a weaknesses in the opponent, and play off of those weaknesses. Utilize the party members for an effective attack with Skillchains and Magic bursts.


This is normally the job of the BLM, leader and/or other party members may input advice. In the end though, the burst is all that matters, and BLM control this aspect.
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#12 Oct 09 2004 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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BUMP. Haha.
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#13 Oct 09 2004 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
10) Ranger: not a great tank. Back/Middle Line. Great DD when it does hit. Speedy and flexible.


I disagree. Rangers should be as front line as anyone, for two reasons. First, they get extra TP from meleeing. It may not be the majority of their TP, but it is there. Second, RNG/NIN on the front line can occasionally pull hate without significant detriment to the party. This may actually be the desired effect if the ranger is opening a trick attack skillchain. If the ranger is not on the front line, the enemy will be running around all over the place, which is very bad for the front liners.
#14 Oct 09 2004 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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My only real complaint here.. is this fosters the cookie cutter mentallity of Xi , beyond where it already is.

Its a good "guide" But people are far too quick to accept things like this as incontrovertable law. Which in and of itself , fosters ignorance.

Ive played puller as a WHM .. quite effectivly I might add for my PTs , in for example Emptiness/Holla. By these guidelines, There is no room for a WHM to play puller.

So I would simply say that this is an exellent guide, But It is more important to remember, over top of what ever the suggestion states, That ANYTHING is possible. (and yes i can also tank for my PT even still at lvl 30-50 .. Its not practical or effective, but it CAN be done)

The mark of a truly good leader.. Is the ability , to see that the best laid plans are likely to fail, And being able to make quick judement calls, on the fly. Veratility and foresight is what defines a truly great leader, from a good leader.

One thing I do want to address.. Although its minor. Especially in a LS of friends. It is important to not be friendly.. Its more important to actually command. Polite, yes. But you must remain serious while those around you are not. ( I think my beef with this is just the word, and perceived connotation of friendly)

Anyway.. Exellent work , And Yes.. People do need to understand the concepts that were put in here.. It would make PTing in XI a more.. productive xp

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#15 Oct 09 2004 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Rate up Rebornfenyx! This should be a sticky in the game guides.

I would like to add:

On Leadership:

Ask how long everyone plans on staying, and ask everyone up front to give AT LEAST a ten minute heads up before they go. Waiting for replacements kills xp per hour.

Encourage party members to set HPs, pre-25 especially in the dunes. Forcing the entire party to wait for 1) a search for a willing raiser 2) Raiser travel time 3) raise sicknessall so that the member can have the convenience of bloodwarping to their home city is selfish. This can cripple the party if the member is a tank or healer. If a raise is not forthcoming, or you do not wish to wait and a someone else is available, kick them. The needs of 5 outweigh the needs of the one. XP loss 10-25 is not more than a 2-3 fights. Besides, it is only just rewards for their selfishness.

Be Patient. Figure out the SC. Let the whm buff themselves.

Have the healer tell the puller how much mp he thinks he needs before the pull.

Do not pass leader, unless so that someone can recruit someone in the same zone as them, and only if they are someone you trust. You may not get leader back, and the party is no longer yours. You are now left to someone elses discretion. Do not pass the blame if they recruit unwisely.

On party forming:

When forming a party, if you don't have a pld, get one person with war sub. You do not want the mob going after the mages. Even a Thf/war can take damage long enough for the main voker's provoke timer to come up.

Consider race when choosing your jobs. A taru war/thf cannot be your main tank. They may be looking for a challenge in the game, but are you?

The main thing I disagreed with was your understanding of some of the jobs. Saying "Ranger: not a great tank" wins Vanadiel's understatement award. And Drg is not a main tank. Not sure what you meant when you said monk is a "subtle tank." Sam's as a tank--if a galka, w/o vit gear and defence food, maybe.
#16 Oct 09 2004 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Excellent thread. I'd wish I'd known about some of this sooner. My parties in qufim have been sucking greatly, mainly because I forgot to take "the weather" into account.

I'll definatly try to put these into practice.
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#17 Oct 09 2004 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Very good read, rate up.

One minor add: When deciding a destination to party at, always do a search on the area and try to estimate how many actual groups are in the area.. this is especially helpful in easily crowded areas like Valley of Sorrows (and perhaps Garlaige).
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#18 Oct 10 2004 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Alrighty, teh Art of Leadership has been updated. Added a few new things.

in response to:

Viro: In Promyvion being a WHM puller isnt a big accomplishment. Usually there is anywhere from 6-18 people there. And one death isnt going to slow them down. I've done Promyvion... so it's no big deal. I'm just saying its not wise to pull.

You are right by these guidelines there is no room for whm as puller. Exactly. The WHM (if it is the healer) should not be the puller. More than likely i bet if you had to make a long pull, there is a really good chance your party wont even see your dead body in their range. Any party in their right mind would not allow their main healer to be the puller. my logic is, Say yuo do live and get back to the party but you are missing quite a bit of HP. So you regen yourself and hten start healing yourself...that pulls hate. Not to mention you will be missing on healing up others who are taking the damage on front lines. It's a waste of mana, plain and simple.

I'm not bashing your methods of how you play the game, i am just syaing its not a wise choice especially for a whm since their mana is the most important.

--REborn--

And thanks everyone with their concepts and advice. much appreciated :)
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~~Rebornfenyx 75 Black Mage/Red Mage~~ Paragon of Destructive Excellence
~~Rebornfenyx 74 Red Mage/Summoner~~ Paragon of Support Role Excellence
~~Rebornfenyx 73 Summoner/White Mage~~ Paragon of Summoner Avatar Thingy Exellence
Linkshell~Spirits of the Pheonix~

~~Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.~~ *Zhuge Liang, Third Century C.E. China*
#19 Oct 14 2004 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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312 posts
Sorry, just trying to keep it in the front...no new news.

--Reborn--
____________________________
~~Rebornfenyx 75 Black Mage/Red Mage~~ Paragon of Destructive Excellence
~~Rebornfenyx 74 Red Mage/Summoner~~ Paragon of Support Role Excellence
~~Rebornfenyx 73 Summoner/White Mage~~ Paragon of Summoner Avatar Thingy Exellence
Linkshell~Spirits of the Pheonix~

~~Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.~~ *Zhuge Liang, Third Century C.E. China*
#20 Oct 21 2004 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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787 posts
IMO BST is the ideal puller if there are DC/EM mobs in the area to charm; the BST can keep Sneak/Invis up during the pull, the pet takes all the hits, and if you get any links the BST can release their pet (just outside of camp) and the links wander off again.

A BST is still a good damage dealer with a summoned jug pet, but not as good a puller because you usually want to keep a jug pet around for a long time.

BTW, the 30% BST xp penalty for having a pet at the end of the fight only applies to the BST. The Brady guide lies.
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#21 Oct 22 2004 at 12:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
2) When forming a party make sure THESE Three jobs are COVERED CONFIDENTLY: Tank (99% of time should have WAR subbed), Healer, and Puller. The leader should not be the PULLER. Nor should the TANK! The reason i say the leader should not be the puller is that there is a good chance that the puller could die. The leader, should not be in the position to die so easily. However that is a choice upon the leader. However, the leader needs to remain WITH the group if something is to happen. A puller is away from the group alot of the time. A leader doesnt know whats going on if they are away. Same reasoning goes with children. If you dont know where you're children are, then how can you know what they are doing?


As a tank, i highly disagree.

A tank as the leader puts the parties limits in the hands of the leader, as the tank really is the one who can determine the limits of the party, as they're taking the hits.
#22 Oct 22 2004 at 1:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,357 posts
Quote:
Sun Tzu's Art of War:
--The Five Strategic Assessments
-- Attack when they are unprepared, make your move when they least expect it. (Battle Begins: 2)
-- When you do battle, even if you are winning, if you continue for a long time it will dull your forces and blunt your edge; if you besiege a citadel, your strength will be exhausted. If you keep your armies out in the field for a long time your supplies will be insufficient. (Preparing the Battlefield: 7)
--Even if opponents are numerous, they can be made not to fight. (Battle Begins: 3)
-- Look upon your soldiers as you do infants, and they willingly go into deep valleys with you; look upon your soldiers as beloved children, and they willingly die with you. ALSO MIXED WITH If you are so nice to them that you cannot employ them, so kind to them that you cannot command them, so casual with them that you cannot establish order, they are like spoiled children, useless. (Preparing the Battlefield: 5)



Even though its only 20ish pages long thats just tearing it a new one. Really I would highly suggest reading this no matter what profession you pursue.


Other than that excellent post.
#23 Oct 22 2004 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont agree with "Leader shouldnt be the puller", since it is probably the job that requires the greatest amount of knowledge to do correctly. A perfectly balanced party can be ruined by a puller who is too timid to keep a chain running, or too bold to let a chain pass when there is little chance of success. If i have built a party from the ground up and am confident in everyones abilities, your damn right im gonna be the one pulling.

I agree that mages (for the most part) should not pull. Granted, there are exceptions (i pulled as a BLM all the time), but there will come a time when you will need that extra mana you could have gotten from resting, and you will kick yourself in the pants for having wasted the chance.

DRK can also be listed as minor debuffers, since a DRK who acually uses thier Absorbs effectivly can greatly increase the overall dmg of a party.

You said it in there, but i feel it needs to be said again. A leader CANNOT be timid of making suggestions towards a weak link. One person unable to perfom well at thier job can definatly lessen exp/H, and there is the chance that they will also get your party killed. Melee missing too much can drag out fights and waste mana, rdms not debuffing have the same effect, mages who are wasteful will reduce chain number and may run out of mana at a critical point. If a person is unable to learn from mistakes, or at least make a concerned effort at improvement, may need to be given the ol' boot.

I liked your suggestion towards getting to know the people before they are included in your party (weapon, spells, subjob, ect.). Many people, especially in the lower end areas of the game, will just look for a job and fill spaces as fast as possible. There are lots of people who will accept a blind invite, especially for less wanted jobs at low lvls, but you will almost always be seen in higher regard and chosen over a leader who just sends an invite if you send a friendly tell first.
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