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Confessions of Gil-sellerFollow

#1 Dec 27 2004 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
1,368 posts
If you do not read this post in full- you are not entitled to rate it. Also, I have not ever bought or sold gil. I will never buy or sell gil. I do not support gil selling and neither should you.

Well everyone, here it is. Over 12 hours of my personal conversations with gil sellers, recorded, translated and transcribed. I realize this thread is destined to turn into an enormous and utterly unproductive litany of entrenched opinions and hackneyed arguments about gil sellers and gil selling- but I feel it is valuable anyway. Much of the information contained in here is already out there, but if you read through all of this you will understand the lives of gil sellers, and even GMs, much better.

I will post several screenshots of the chat log to prove that these conversations did in fact happen (once photobucket accepts my registration ^^). I have edit the conversations for clarity. Though it may be confusing- I simply followed the conventions of FFXI chat: >>[name] means I was speaking, [name]>> Is the response

PS- This compliation took over 12 hours of conversation (including an all-nighter). I had to get in contact with and gain the trust of the Chinese that I spoke to. I ask you not to break that confidence. It also took over 8 hours to transcribe and translate the screenshots of the conversation. Your rate ups are appreciated and appropriate. And you can productively rate up a post that is already at 5.00 ^^

Smzaaa>> We’re together
Kiyokatsu>> okay
Smzaaa>> We have 6 people
Kiyokatsu>> I know everyone thinks you sell gil
Kiyokatsu>> Are you the same as Hom***
Smzaaa>> Yes
Smzaaa>> You?
Kiyokatsu>> Hey! I am talking to Smzaaa
Kiyokatsu>> no
Kiyokatsu>> I am just playing
Kiyokatsu>> So you all sell gil on the internet?
Smzaaa>> Yeah, You have money. Haha
Kiyokatsu>> Where are you?
Smzaaa>> yes. Sell gil and change it for cash
Kiyokatsu>> Is it a good job?
Smzaaa>> It’s tiring
Smzaaa>> The time you work is really long.
Smzaaa>> It takes about 12 hours
[Call sent. The GMs currently have 20 calls to process before yours].
Kiyokatsu>> That’s not very good
Kiyokatsu>> Hello?
Smzaaa>> We aren’t the same as you
Smzsss>> What is it?
Kiyokatsu>> Nothing, I’m just talking and practicing Chinese
Kiyokatsu>> You mean, you don’t have money?
Smzaaa>> Yes
Smzaaa>> Right now [I’m] really poor
Kiyokatsu>> I’m sorry
Smzaaa>> Don’t worry about it
Kiyokatsu>> It is really different than America
Smzaaa>> I want to be like you. Not have to work as much, have time to play.
Smzsss>> Cool
Smzsss>> How did you know I was Chinese?
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, you’re working right now, right?
Kiyokatsu>> Can’t you find another job?
[GM]Kwayzar>> Greeting Kiyokatsu I am GM Kwayzar. Did you get him to admit this just before you petitioned this?
Kiyokatsu>> Yep
[GM]Kwayzar>> Pl O
Kiyokatsu>> And I think I got Starck and Yucki too [actually I am not so sure anymore. They seemed to open up to selling gil once, but after that have seemed more like legit players]
[GM]Kwayzar>> Ok I’ll be checking the logs right away
[GM]Kwayzar>> Is there anything else I can assist you with?
Kiyokatsu>> It’s all in Chinese
[GM]Kwayzar>> Thank you for the petition and I bid you good hunting
Kiyokatsu>> I have one question- if Smzaaa says that all of the smz*** are gil selling is that enough for y’all?
Kiyokatsu>> I understand you might not be able to tell me
Kiyokatsu>> But is it a good idea for me to try to contact them all?
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, where are you all?
Kiyokatsu>> Where in China?
[GM]Kwayzar>> I’ll have to send the logs to Japan, nobody here can read Chinese
Kiyokatsu>> I hope they can read romanized Chinese
Kiyokatsu>> So there are two people using Smzaaa?
Kiyokatsu>> You change computers with someone?
Smzaaa>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> I get it
Smzaaa>> Yes [in English]
Kiyokatsu>> So if I talk to you tomorrow it might be a different person?
Smzaaa>> Could be
Smzaaa>> on any day it isn’t guaranteed to be me
Kiyokatsu>> I got it. Do you always use Smzaaa
Smzaaa>> Yes
Smzaaa>> Sometimes someone else is using Smzaaa
Kiyokatsu>> Do you sometimes use other smz’s?
Smzaaa>> No
Smzaaa>> When I am not playing I am sleeping
Kiyokatsu>> Do you live alone?
Kiyokatsu>> Do you have a wife? Kids?
Smzaaa>> I’m 22 and I haven’t gotten married yet :(
Kiyokatsu>> (/laugh) I get it… I’m 24... not married.
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, what’s your name?
Kiyokatsu>> My name is [baleted ^^]
Kiyokatsu>> What’s your name?
Smzaaa>> liwei
Kiyokatsu>> liwei, nice to meet you
Smzaaa>> (Nice to meet you)
Kiyokatsu>> (nice to meet you) too
Kiyokatsu>> Can you speak English?
Smzaaa>> A little bit
Kiyokatsu>> Am I messing up your work?
Kiyokatsu>> Will your boss get mad at you?
Smzaaa>> no [in English]
Smzaaa>> I am the boss
Kiyokatsu>> Really? So the other Smz’s are yours?
Kiyokatsu>> Why did you chose this job?
Smzaaa>> I do it with friends
Kiyokatsu>> So you aren’t in the same place?
Kiyokatsu>> Are you in different apartments?
Kiyokatsu>> Are you in different places?
[I try to /tell Smzsss but “he” is offline]
Smzaaa>> We are in the same place
Smzaaa>> If we aren’t there is no way to play
Kiyokatsu>> Hey- I just got to know your friend Smzaaa!
Kiyokatsu>> Why?
Smzaaa>> When we’re together if there is something we don’t understand we can talk it over.
Kiyokatsu>> It’s not lonely when you’re with friends
[He switches to Smzhhh and it takes me a sec to figure out that it is Liwei, there is some chat about why he switched]
Kiyokatsu>> Why did you all choose the same names?
Smzhhh>> The names are whatever
Smzhhh>> the same names represents we have the same opinions
Smzhhh>> But the names really are just whatever
Kiyokatsu>> Okay I got it
Smzhhh>> But the names really are just whatever
Kiyokatsu>> Okay I got it
Smzhhh>> What sort of job do you do?
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, where do you all sell the gil?
Smzhhh>> An internet site
Kiyokatsu>> I get it- Can you tell me where?
Smzhhh>> Do you want to buy gil?
Kiyokatsu>> No, I don’t have gil problems
Kiyokatsu>> I just want to know how you tell people where to go to buy gil
Smzhhh>> We have a phone that people can call to buy gil
Smzhhh>> You just call and say how much you want
Smzhhh>> Are you in the USA?
Kiyokatsu>> Yes
Smzhhh>> There are a ton of people who buy gil there
Kiyokatsu>> I bet
Kiyokatsu>> lots of money and we loves games
Smzhhh>> We don’t make a lot of money here
Smzhhh>> Yeah, the more people are on the faster people buy [I think he meant the AH, not gil buying]
Kiyokatsu>> How many Renminbi do you make a month selling gil?
Kiyokatsu>> There are siKiyokatsu>> people
Kiyokatsu>> One person doesn’t have to do too much
Kiyokatsu>> Thanks for letting me practice Chinese
Smzhhh>> Each month we get many hundreds of thousands of gil
Smzhhh>> And make a few ten thousands in cash [10,000 in Chinese currency ~ 1,200 in US Dollars at present]
Smzhhh>> np ^^
Kiyokatsu>> Do you know how many dollars it is?
Kiyokatsu>> ^^
Smzhhh>> About 20,000, sometimes 30,000 [referring to Chinese Currently again]
Kiyokatsu>> Wow, that’s not much
Kiyokatsu>> I’m sorry
Smzhhh>> Our living standards are really different than you over there
Kiyokatsu>> I bet
Smzhhh>> You are about 8:1 what I get
Kiyokatsu>> Yeah, I can easily make 50+ cents a day [I meant to say dollars]
Kiyokatsu>> That’s right
Smzhhh>> 50 American cents?
Kiyokatsu>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> Everyday
Kiyokatsu>> Any college student could do the same
Smzhhh>> I can make 70 Renminbi in a day [about $8 US]
Smzhhh>> That’s more than you
Kiyokatsu>> Really?
Kiyokatsu>> Oh, I meant dollars, not cents
Smzhhh>> :)
Kiyokatsu>> My bad Chinese….
Smzhhh>> Ever been to China?
Kiyokatsu>> ^^
Smzhhh>> Were you born in China or the US?
Kiyokatsu>> the USA
Smzhhh>> How did you know us?
Kiyokatsu>> I saw you in (San’Doria)
Smzhhh>> oh [in English]
Smzhhh>> Do you play everyday?
Kiyokatsu>> Yeah, just about everyday
Smzhhh>> You don’t give the impression that you are studying [Was he on to me?]
Kiyokatsu>> If you want to talk, you can look for me anytime [I really do want to practice!]
Smzhhh>> hehe. I still need to sleep!
Kiyokatsu>> Sorry ‘bout that
Kiyokatsu>> What impression do I give?
Kiyokatsu>> Sorry to keep you up talking for so long
Smzhhh>> Even though I [???] gil I am still uncomfortable [he is either expressing regret at selling gil, or just saying it isn’t really good money. I think the latter.]
Kiyokatsu>> Sorry
Kiyokatsu>> have sweet dreams
Kiyokatsu>> (Is that right?) [referring to my ‘sweet dreams’ phrase in Chinese]
Smzhhh>> I understand what you wrote
Kiyokatsu>> I also want to sleep soon… If I want to practice Chinese… I have to do it at a really early time in America
Smzhhh>> That’s right
Smzhhh>> hehe. You don’t want to ruin your health
Kiyokatsu>> For real
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, Liwei, I am really glad I met you
Smzhhh>> Me too
Smzhhh>> If there is ever anything you don’t understand ask me. ok?
Kiyokatsu>> okay ^^
Kiyokatsu>> You can teach me how to speak Chinese
Kiyokatsu>> I want to get better
Kiyokatsu>> hehe. If you speak regularly of course you’ll improve.
Kiyokatsu>> hehe
Kiyokatsu>> (Good bye.) (See you again!)
Smzhhh>> Just keep writing what you can write. If you don’t know how to say…
Smzhhh> oh (Good Bye.)
Kiyokatsu>> Do you do (woodworking)?
Smzhhh>> Yeah
Kiyokatsu>> You are higher than me
Kiyokatsu>> I’m only 39
Smzhhh>> how many do you want it?
Smzhhh>> Translate something for me
Kiyokatsu>> I want it to 60…maybe 75
Kiyokatsu>> okay
Smzhhh>> My woodworking is 98
Kiyokatsu>> You have 98 (woodworking)??
Kiyokatsu>> 98?
Smzhhh>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> WOW!
Kiyokatsu>> You can make Elemental staves! [in English]
Smzhhh>> Give me a translation of what you just said in English
Kiyokatsu>> Okay, I’ll do it
Smzhhh>> What does that English you just used mean?
Kiyokatsu>> You can make (ice) (staff) and things
Kiyokatsu>> You can make a lot of stuff
Smzhhh>> If it is made from wood I can make it
Smzhhh>> But some stuff I can’t make
Kiyokatsu>> [I try to explain the staves in simple English]
Smzhhh>> I’ve never made the stuff you are talking about
Smzhhh>> I only make lumber
Kiyokatsu>> Which? Ebony?
Kiyokatsu>> Which lumber do you usually make?
Smzhhh>> Arrow
Kiyokatsu>> Kabura Arrows?
Smzhhh>> Arrow lumber
Kiyokatsu>> only arrow lumber?
Smzhhh>> Yep
Kiyokatsu>> You can usually make a lot at once
Smzhhh>> yes
Kiyokatsu>> That is how I think too, the reason I want woodworking to 60 is to make a ton of arrowwood lumber
Kiyokatsu>> It sells really fast
Kiyokatsu>> How’d you get to 98?
Smzhhh>> That won’t work, it’s too low
Smzhhh>> I practiced on wood [I think this means he made lumber]
Kiyokatsu>> I didn’t know you could get to 98 just making lumber!
Kiyokatsu>> That’s awesome!
Smzhhh>> After 60 I used other ingredients to practice on
Smzhhh>> a friend gave [something I couldn’t figure out- even after letting a native speaker read it]
Smzhhh>> Is your woodworking 60?
Kiyokatsu>> no, mine’s only 39
Kiyokatsu>> This wek I wanna improve it
Kiyokatsu>> I want to get to 45 by the weekend
Smzhhh>> I want to get to 100
Kiyokatsu>> But I don’t have any money
Smzhhh>> if you want to get better you have to spend money
Smzhhh>> the highest takes about 150 a piece! [I don’t know what he meant by 150]
Kiyokatsu>> Yeah, I need to spend money to raise my skill, then make things to get money [not the way I actually craft, btw]
Smzhhh>> from 60-70 I used about 2,000,000
Smzhhh>> There are some things that I don’t know the recipe for
Kiyokatsu>> (Hmmm.)
Smzhhh>> If I could speak English I could look them up
Kiyokatsu>> Yeah you could
[at this point I made my apologies and got some sleep]

Kiyokatsu>> How are you?
Kiyokatsu>> How are you?
Coolmingming>> Fine
Kiyokatsu>> Hey I’m an American University student… I want to practice Chinese a little bit
Coolmingming>> Sure
Kiyokatsu>> Thanks!
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, you are at work right?
Coolmingming>> no problem
Kiyokatsu>> If I chat will it bother you?
Coolmingming>> Yes I am
Kiyokatsu>> Will your boss get mad at you?
Coolmingming>> I also want to practice English
Kiyokatsu>> Sure, if you want to!
Kiyokatsu>> So, are you with the other Cool****s?
Coolmingming>> No
Kiyokatsu>> But you do work together right?
Coolmingming>> Yes
Coolmingming>> Can you tell me what “wai guai” is in English?
Kiyokatsu>> Are they your friends?
Kiyokatsu>> What does “wai guai” mean?
Kiyokatsu>> Sorry my Chinese isn’t that good
Kiyokatsu>> Can you tell me what wai guai means with other words?
Coolmingming>> How do you say “Chufang”? hehe
Kiyokatsu>> “Chufang” is kitchen
Kiyokatsu>> Are you in the Kitchen?
Kiyokatsu>> (/laugh)
Coolmingming>> ^^
Kiyokatsu>> Thanks for letting me practice Chinese
Kiyokatsu>> Are you working with anyone else right now?
Coolmingming>> Do oyu mind if we start to use English to talk?
Kiyokatsu>> Okay!
Kiyokatsu>> Let’s use English!
Coolmingming>> o what do u do?
Kiyokatsu>> I am a college student
Kiyokatsu>> What is your job?
Coolmingming>> I know, why are you searching me?
Kiyokatsu>> I want to practice Chinese
Coolmingming>> I am also a student
Kiyokatsu>> I am learning Chinese at college
Coolmingming>> o
Kiyokatsu>> I want to live in China someday
Kiyokatsu>> Where are you a student?
Coolmingming>> I don’t know
Kiyokatsu>> Are you a college student?
Coolmingming>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> Cool
Kiyokatsu>> Where do you live?
Coolmingming>> Chinese
Kiyokatsu>> I see
Coolmingming>> Wait for a moment
Kiyokatsu>> okay
Kiyokatsu>> Do you know the Smz***s?
Kiyokatsu>> Are you there?
Coolmingming>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> ; ;
Kiyokatsu>> okay
Kiyokatsu>> I thought you were gone
Coolmingming>> I’m sorry
Kiyokatsu>> np
Kiyokatsu>> are you busy?
Kiyokatsu>> What are you doing now?
Coolmingming>> Yeah
Coolmingming>> Working
Kiyokatsu>> Cool
Kiyokatsu>> How do you make gil ;to sell?
Kiyokatsu>> In (Davoi)?
Coolmingming>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> What do you kill?
Kiyokatsu>> Is it a fun job?
Coolmingming>> qu p
Kiyokatsu>> What?
Coolmingming>> sorry, sorry
Kiyokatsu>> np
Kiyokatsu>> wrong person?
Coolmingming>> yeah
Kiyokatsu>> What do you kill in (Davoi)?
Kiyokatsu>> I don’t know how to make gil there
Kiyokatsu>> I only make silver
Coolmingming>> GI and knife
Kiyokatsu>> I don’t know them
Coolmingming>> Kill H and P
Kiyokatsu>> Cool
Coolmingming>> or u can go to the Oz and get the kote
Kiyokatsu>> My friend bought the Kote- 500,000 gil!
Kiyokatsu>> They were very expensive
Coolmingming>> no, now it’s price is 600,000
Kiyokatsu>> Wow….
Coolmingming>> huh
Kiyokatsu>> How many can you get in a day?
Kiyokatsu>> In one day how many Kote?
Coolmingming>> It’s not sure
Kiyokatsu>> I see
Coolmingming>> sometimes 3, sometimes nothing
Kiyokatsu>> How amny Renminbi do you get for 600,000 gil?
Coolmingming>> 30 million
Kiyokatsu>> 30 million Renminbi for 600,000 gil? [no way that is correct by the way- 30 million would be US$362,472 , and if we could convert gil to dollars at a two for one rate- we’d all be selling gil]
Kiyokatsu>> Cool
Kiyokatsu>> I don’t know how many dollars that is
Kiyokatsu>> I will look it up
Kiyokatsu>> How do you sell the gil though?
Kiyokatsu>> On the internet?
Coolmingming>> ^^
Coolmingming>> yes
Kiyokatsu>> What is the internet site?
Coolmingming>> I don’t know, my boss didn’t tell me
Kiyokatsu>> oh, you have a boss!
Kiyokatsu>> Will you get in trouble?
Kiyokatsu>> for talking to me?
Coolmingming>> no
Kiyokatsu>> Are you sure?
Kiyokatsu>> I don’t want to get you in trouble
Kiyokatsu>> How many people work with you?
Kiyokatsu>> I don’t make any money playing
Kiyokatsu>> (/laugh)
Coolmingming>> ^^
Kiyokatsu>> How much do you make in a day?
Kiyokatsu>> I can only make 50,000 gil a day
Coolmingming>> 1000000
Kiyokatsu>> So you get in trouble if you don’t make 1,000,000?
Kiyokatsu>> Your boss will get mad if you don’t get 1,000,000?
Coolmingming >> Yes, he’s mad
Kiyokatsu>> That is sad for you
Kiyokatsu>> (I’m sorry)
Coolmingming>> np
Kiyokatsu>> Do all the Cool***** have to make 1,000,000?
Coolmingming>> yes
Kiyokatsu>> Cool
Kiyokatsu>> I wish I could make 1 million a day!
Kiyokatsu>> (/laugh)
Coolmingming>> ^^
Coolmingming>> I hate my boss
Kiyokatsu>> Why are you all named Cool?
Kiyokatsu>> you do?
Kiyokatsu>> Is he mean?
Coolmingming>> he’s rude
Coolmingming>> we are cool
Kiyokatsu>> (I’m sorry)- I think he just wants to make money
Kiyokatsu>> he doesn’t care about you
Coolmingming>> yes
Kiyokatsu>> Could you find a different job?
Kiyokatsu>> (teaching English?)
Kiyokatsu>> (/laugh)
[after this I got busy with one of the other conversations and all my tells listed him as offline for the rest of the morning]

Kiyokatsu>> How are you?
Kiyokatsu>> Do you mind if I practice Chinese a little bit?
Numberthree>> I don’t know you! I’m sorry!
Kiyokatsu>> Sorry
Kiyokatsu>> I am an American University student
Numberthree>> I am a Singaporean! Sorry!hehe
Kiyokatsu>> Singapore [in English]
Numberthree>> I don’t understand
Kiyokatsu>> Don’t worry about it
Numberthree>> hehe~
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, are you at work right now?
Numberthree>> Yes
Kiyokatsu>> Will your boss get mad at you?
Kiyokatsu>> You are selling gil right?
Numberthree>> Me? No!
Numberthree>> I don’t get it!
Kiyokatsu>> Sorry
Kiyokatsu>> Can you speak English?
Numberthree>> No problem! All the people who work have gone home [a little unclear here what the meaning is]
Numberthree>> Usually it’s okay!
Kiyokatsu>> So, do you sell gil with the other Number***s?
Kiyokatsu>> Are you working with anyone else right now?
Numberthree>> Yep
Kiyokatsu>> Say “Hi” for me
Kiyokatsu>> ^^
Numberthree>> ^^
Kiyokatsu>> Is your job fun?
Numberthree>> We make money and we play. But we are going to change games soon
Kiyokatsu>> You can’t make money on this game?
Numberthree>> There are lots of people who are camping [I think he means camping anyway] with us right now
Kiyokatsu>> Other people selling gil?
Kiyokatsu>> How many people sell gil together?
Kiyokatsu>> Are you from mainland China?
Kiyokatsu>> Do you any other Chinese?
Numberthree>> Huh? How old are you?
Kiyokatsu>> 24
Numberthree>> Do you play by yourself?
Kiyokatsu>> Yes, I bought it with three friends
Kiyokatsu>> We play together
Kiyokatsu>> We’re lvl 36
Kiyokatsu>> Are you still busy?
Numberthree>> Are you guys playing, or making money?
Kiyokatsu>> Just playing
[GM]Ezramin>> Hello Kiyokatsu, it is I, GM Ezramin. How are you today?
Numberthree>> hehe, hey, where are you guys from?
Kiyokatsu>> USA
>>Ezramin (Hello!)
>>Ezramin I love the dramatic intro
Numberthree>> Hey, you’re a Chinese! In America!
Kiyokatsu>> No, I’m an American
[GM]Ezramin>> Thanks. So then, you’ve gotten people to admit to gil selling?
Kiyokatsu>> I study Chinese at college
Numberthree>> Americans know Pinyin? [romanized Chinese]
>>Ezramin I think I may have gotten most of the major sellers on Fairy even!
Kiyokatsu>> I learned at college
Numberthree>> hehe
Numberthree>> You speak really well
>>Ezramin I have gotten one each of the Smz***, Cool*** and Number**** set to admit to it
>>Ezramin My logs are non-stop Chinese right now
>>Ezramin I already reported to GM
>>Ezramin Kwayzar
[GM]Ezramin>> Yes, I’ve seen the report.
>>Ezramin I just wanted you all to know that there is tons more
>>Ezramin In case
>>Ezramin I don’t understand your procedures well and hoped that you would get the entire log
>>Ezramin I apologize for the double report
Kiyokatsu>> Thank you
[GM]Ezramin>> Okay, thank you, we add the names and look into your log. It won’t be immediate, but thanks.
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, how many people do you sell gil with?
>>Ezramin I am still chatting with them atm
>>Ezramin In case it matters
>>Ezramin Thank you so much for your time, I really appreciate all that you GMs do
[GM]Ezramin>> I’ll note that. Is there anything else I can assist you with?
[I asked him about logging onto different characters under the same ID]
Kiyokatsu>> Can you speak English?
Numberthree>> No way!
Numberthree>> Are you just really smart?
Kiyokatsu>> No, I just like languages
Kiyokatsu>> I can speak Chinese, English and Japanese
Numberthree>> Can you help me call a Gm?
Kiyokatsu>> Do you think I’d do that? [I thought he was asking if I had called a GM on him, I didn’t put his simple sentence together for some reason…it was way late ^^]
Numberthree>> o, hehe
Kiyokatsu>> Archer’s Rings are really expensive… everyone wants ‘em!
Numberthree>> What about you?
Numberthree>> Do you have one?
Kiyokatsu>> What are you doing right now?
Kiyokatsu>> No
Numberthree>> What do you have?
Kiyokatsu>> I can’t kill Stroper
Kiyokatsu>> I’m a White Mage
Numberthree>> Yeah, you should lvl up fast
Numbereleven>> I’m not doing anything, just playing
Kiyokatsu>> Cool
Numbereleven>> Cool? What’s cool?
Numbereleven>> What the crap are you saying?
Kiyokatsu>> Never mind… I was just saying “cool”
Kiyokatsu>> No meaning
Numberthree>> Do you have ICQ?
Kiyokatsu>> No
Numbereleven>> That’s right [it has no meaning!]
Numberthree>> oh
Kiyokatsu>> Why? Do you use ICQ?
Kiyokatsu>> Hey, do you know Numberfive?
Kiyokatsu>> I’ve played with him before
Numbereleven>> no
Numbereleven>> You haven’t played with him
Kiyokatsu>> In (Valkurm Dunes)
Kiyokatsu>> Yep! I use it, does your comp have a number?
Numberthree>> I don’t understand
Kiyokatsu>> oh
Kiyokatsu>> oh
Numberthree >> hey, how long do you all work every day?
Numberthree>> Are you a boy or a girl?
Kiyokatsu>> Boy
Kiyokatsu>> Do you want me to be a girl?
Numberthree>> yeah
Kiyokatsu>> hehe
Kiyokatsu>> maybe I am…..
Kiyokatsu>> You are male right?
Numberthree>> yeah
Kiyokatsu>> Which game are you going to then?
Numberthree>> We dunno
Kiyokatsu>> I dunno a good one either
Numberthree>> What other games do you have over there?
Kiyokatsu>> There’s Ever Quest 2 (really new)
Numberthree>> I know that one, what else?
Kiyokatsu>> There’s also World of Warcraft
Kiyokatsu>> It’s also new
Kiyokatsu>> But on there anyone can get money really quickly
Kiyokatsu>> So I don’t know if anyone buys money in the game
Numberthree>> o!
Kiyokatsu>> I am really tired
Numberthree>> why?
Kiyokatsu>> In America it’s the morning!
Kiyokatsu>> I still haven’t slept
Kiyokatsu>> I’ve been playing this game the whole time
[our conversation wound down after this]

Kiyokatsu>> I’m back
Smzeee>> o
Kiyokatsu>> Hey- how many gil do you guys have?
Kiyokatsu>> a lot?
Smzeee>> 7,000,000 [lit. 700 ten thousands]
Smzeee>> why, you want some?
Kiyokatsu>> no, not right now
Smzeee>> o
Kiyokatsu>> I like to make my own gil
Smzeee>> do you play, or make gil?
Kiyokatsu>> I just play
Smzeee>> o
Kiyokatsu>> This is work for me
Smzeee>> o
Smzeee>> 7,000,000 ain’t badKiyokatsu>> how many gil do you sell a day?
Kiyokatsu>> do a lot of people buy it?
Smzeee>> 100,000
Smzeee>> yeah
Kiyokatsu>> not bad
Kiyokatsu>> so you get 400 renminbi a day? (about US$48- I had asked about their prices earlier)
Smzeee>> no, we get 40 [~US$4.83]
[I reasked about prices ‘cause I was confused. Then I realized where I had gone wrong]
Kiyokatsu>> Oh, I read it wrong… I thought you said you sold 1,000,000 a day
Kiyokatsu>> My bad
Smzeee>> yes
Kiyokatsu>> I think your job is really interesting
Smzeee>> But I don’t!
Kiyokatsu>> I can imagine
Kiyokatsu>> You just do the same stuff all day
Smzeee>> Oh yeah
Kiyokatsu>> I was interested because I really didn’t know what you all were doing before
Kiyokatsu>> Americans are really afraid of you guys
Smzeee>> o
Kiyokatsu>> They think you have more gil than they do
Kiyokatsu>> and they really don’t like gilsellers
Smzeee>> Really! And yet you are still talking to me!
Kiyokatsu>> I didn’t say “I don’t like you!” I said most Americans don’t like you… ^^
Smzeee>> I know

Now you know some things you probably didn’t, the world of gil selling is really a lot more complicated than it first appears. The Smz group is a bunch of self-employed friends who split the cash. They only sell 100,000gil a day, and have a uber-level Woodworking skills (I have seen Smzaaa synth an entire stack of arrowwood lumber at a time). Ironically, Liwei doesn’t even know how to make many of the woodworking items because he can’t read or understand English. The Cool’s camp and kill all day long and are a corporate entity of some sort, the workers don’t even know how or where they sell gil- they are just making a living in a job they hate. The Number’s didn’t even admit to gil selling straight up. Numberthree lives in Singapore, and even asked for my help to call a GM because he was MPKed and he felt like the GM didn’t do anything about it. Does he even realize that selling gil is illegal, or did he just think that this other player was being malicious?

When I reported these people, I was elated at first. I have tried to contact each of them several times with no good response. I had finally gotten through and hopefully made an impact. The truth is that after a few hours I was far more conflicted about what I had done. Like most social issues, Chinese gil selling is a very complicated and nuanced. I simply cannot find it in me to hate another human being, and all of those I have talked to were friendly and engaging people that I wouldn’t mind knowing in real life. I have to admit, whether or not my reports end up banning the lot of them, and despite the fact that I’d rather play in a Vana’Diel free of gil sellers, I have become genuine friends with many of them.

Edited, Mon Dec 27 16:09:13 2004 by Kiyokatsu

Edited, Mon Dec 27 16:10:16 2004 by Kiyokatsu
#2 Dec 27 2004 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
2,506 posts
Impressive. One suggestion though... ^^

You think you can color code the Gil Seller talking? I lost track of who was who... XD
                                     ↓His opinion is ****.↓
#3 Dec 27 2004 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
1,368 posts
I have seriously considered making it more easy- heck- why not- I wil go do that right now... heh... I'll check on Photo-bucket while I am at- it.

I don't actually wanna play FFXI now that the servers are up anyway right?
#4 Dec 27 2004 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
455 posts
Wow. Very interesting work. *shudders at the thought at having to to do a job like this*
#5 Dec 27 2004 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
1,368 posts
There you go- I just did some "Replace All" from the [crtl+F] command in word and that fixed it right up. I haven't separated out to whom I am talking- so you won't know right of if I am talking to a GM, or which of the sellers I am talking to (during the times I am talking with more than one Smz*** at once say).

I will re-edit ASAP.
#6 Dec 27 2004 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
1,368 posts
There you go- I just did some "Replace All" from the [crtl+F] command in word and that fixed it right up. I haven't separated out to whom I am talking- so you won't know right of if I am talking to a GM, or which of the sellers I am talking to (during the times I am talking with more than one Smz*** at once say).
#7 Dec 27 2004 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
1,368 posts
Heh- my first couple rate-downs came in....

If I can get Guru back while posting about hot topics like gil-selling then I'll know I deserve it ^^.
#8 Dec 27 2004 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
679 posts
Good job, you lied to someone to get their trust, and now their accounts might be banned. Congradulations to you.

Now, let's see. They might lose their jobs if their accounts get banned, and an income source for them will be gone unless they remake their characters. Bravo.

I don't like gilselling, but it is something I live with. It will never go away.

PS, I read your post and I did not rate you either way.

I am glad you feel some remorse about it. It is nice to know other people realize these are NOT wall street stock brokers doing what they can to make a buck and put the little people further out of reach.

If only other people could realize that.

I am still sad you did it, but glad you second guessed yourself afterwards. They are people too

Edited, Mon Dec 27 17:57:54 2004 by semajuma
#9 Dec 27 2004 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
347 posts

This is the only gil-selling thread that I have ever enjoyed reading. Its nice to see that some people still understand that there are real lives behind the characters, no matter how much they may **** you off.
Name: Puppypizzle
Main: 75BST
LS: Antagonistic
Server: Fairy
#10 Dec 27 2004 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
Looks like we have professional gamers living in countries where $5 is like $50, and $50 is like $500 in their native currency scrapping a living. Multiple people playing the same characters/accounts 24 hours a day. With bosses and quotas even!
All i can say is wow, what a world.

I'm suprised SE hasn't started selling gil...
#11 Dec 27 2004 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
1,189 posts
This is an excellent read. I'd rate you up if I could for bringing new light to such a controversial topic.
#12 Dec 27 2004 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Maybe I'm just being really insensitive, but are we supposed to feel sorry that these people lose their jobs because they are in violation of the TOS?
I might simply be selfish, but I don't think it's my fault / concern if they lose their jobs because they are doing this.
I actually don't really care anymore. I don't aggree with it, but I've gotten the visions of grandeur of being vana'diels savior out of my mind. S-E seems to be on their way, update by update, to getting this taken care of. I've decided to leave it in their hands, and figure I'll simply adapt as necessary to follow whatever changes they make.

And to the OP, that was a very interesting read, and I admire the time and effort that you put into it.
#13 Dec 27 2004 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
194 posts
Wow, this is a great post! Thanks for your hard work in translating all of your conversations.
#14 Dec 27 2004 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
261 posts

The world is full of such things. Other companies want their competitors out of business so they make money, whether or not their competitors' workers lose a job, their house or whatever. This is basically the same, except the players just want a fair system, not one monopolized by gilsellers. And of course it won't go away if you keep that attitude. Nothing will ever happen unless you believe it will.

As for the post, that's great. I've seen other people attempt this, yet turn it into some immature conversation. Good for you for actually finding some things out. It really is a mixed subject, though, whether you want a more fair game at the cost of someone losing their job (although it doesn't look like they enjoy what they do), or not being able to do what you want, or get what you want in a game.
#15 Dec 27 2004 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
1,368 posts
Good job, you lied to someone to get their trust, and now their accounts might be banned.

I admit that I had ulterior motives and when/if they admitted to gil-selling I did report them. You could easily see my statements that I "just want to practice Chinese" as lying, though that was also true, I genuinely like these people as people and do practice my Chinese with them/chat frequently. I do not feel that I have lied to them. Though- I certainly admit to being selective about what I have told them.

To make myself perfectly clear- I don't regret what I did. Nor am I sure that I did the right thing. I am very conflicted about the issue. I am a rare middle-ground type. The issue is a very complicated one. I certainly respect and understand your views as well as those of posters like Elondil.


Thank you for all the kind comments- I am very grateful that you appreciated and enjoyed my work. I also enjoyed getting to know the inner workings of the Chinese gil selling community. To an Econ major is it a fascinating phenomenon.
#16 Dec 27 2004 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
311 posts
Because for those living in a harsh country like China, money is definately what's always on their mind there.

For example, you see the tourists going to China, hire a cab, then go where they want. The driver, seeing that this person is a tourist and doesn't have the slightest idea about the area, will take the longest route to the way possible, to get as much money out of the customer. This even happens in Taiwan, where people from China are different from those in Taiwan, in terms of dialect and accent.

I had been once tricked by a cab driver in Taiwan simply later because my relatives (they asked how much I paid) told me that he figured my speech was different and took a chance to leech as much cash as possible.

Myself I am chinese but american born, and also learned japanese. Having been through all 3 of these cultures on FFXI has let me learned a lot through them. Speaking with the japanese lets me know about their thoughts and beliefs. For example on my server, certain **** know which people are involved in RMT (Real money trade) and create a giant blist on japanese forums and sites (such as 2ch.net) to save others trouble. NA people will complain thru LS's, shouts, or allakhazam server forums.

I have even dealed with the gilsellers before for some monopolized items. By speaking chinese to them I've been able to get items for as much as 20% off in gil prices. Some people are very centered though, and won't let you off on more than a 10k discount.

Although one thing that really irks me is that when I'm using the english FFXI client and speaking to JP's, they usually start replying back in romaji which makes me feel like they talk this way to 'gaijin's' (foreigners). So I usually end up speaking to them in JP version instead.

In the end, in this game we are not just dealing with 3 different cultures clashing with each other because of the ways that they were raised/taught differently. There are also other cultures out there, such as SG (OP mentions) Italians, Hispanics, and Euro's. This game is getting more and more diverse. I see little being done for the sake of being able to translate properly to each other. You will see that JP's prefer JP's more often, Spanish and spanish people, etc.

One of the thing that brings me to realize this is because of the communication difficulties. That's why some JP's prefer to say "English, I don't understand" which is usually a disclaimer that says 'if you want to invite me, please understand that I can't speak english'. Though they should be learning english at their schools and stuff, I find it that most are just too shy to test out their abilities and therefore limit themselves to certain people all the time.

Such as high school, if some of you have been past that you could notice that certain nationalities would hang out with only their own types. Sure, there were some that were really diverse and had all types of people. But nothing can be helped to the common ideals of people.

got a bit off topic, but I was able to express my thoughts ^^
#17 Dec 27 2004 at 7:02 PM Rating: Default

you have made friends, but cost them their jobs, which they hated, but you informed people about the ACTUAL gilselling, so maybe they'll think twice before sending aggravated tells when they dont get an NM to increase their uber gear even more. you have shown that the gilsellers aren't jusr ppl who decide to take ur mobs and jack up the price of everything, they r making a living.
#18 Dec 27 2004 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
I read your post. I believe at first you thought you were doing the right thing and later realized sometimes doing the right thing is not doing the right thing (I know it sounds corney but i has merit).

I am an American. I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have enough money and time left over to enjoy myself by doing the things I want to do. I take it for granted and I am sure a large majority of you guys take your lifestyle for granted as well.

I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to be in a position in life where I have to work 12 hours a day doing repitious work I did not enjoy at all just to make enough money to get by, let alone hardly have the opportunity of a fulfilling life outside of work.

It just makes me realize how greedy and self-centered we are sometimes. We get upset these guys are providing a service that people are willing to pay for because it makes playing a difficult game like FFXI that much harder for some of us. We are then willing to stomp out a source of income for people half way across the world who are just trying to survive in such a limited society.

Sure selling/buying gil is against the TOS but I now feel that the gil selling witch hunt has turned into a huge ugly monster. Going out of your way to gain the trust of someone to purposely break that trust and possibly cause their extreme hard work to be flushed down the drain is pretty rotten. You say that you have actually made true friends with some of these people...How about you BE a friend, get honest with them, and let them know the truth: You gained their trust to catch them red handed and reported it all to the GM's so they would be banned.
#19 Dec 27 2004 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
679 posts
I don't honestly see the point. Every gil seller goes bye bye, then what? Someone else will monopolize items. On seraph, out of the last 10 hairpins sold (~690k btw), 6 were from the kiss* army (chinese players who supposedly sell gill), 3 were from one person, and 1 from another.

I have seen the kiss* people camp this mob without anyone competing against them. But, what can be proven from it? They sell items on the auction house, that's all you can "see" and that is all you can say.

I don't care if they are here or not. If they go poof, someone else will take over and sell the items, whether they sell gil to an online site or not.

Gilsellers are just one more thing people can complain about, and since they are violating the TOS, they feel more high and mighty about downtalking them (not saying anyone in particular), but they walk around ********** this **** that, **** **** **** ***** **** you guys, horse gay ******" and think they make the game a better place because they don't sell gil. People who do that break the TOS too.

And another thing, breaking the TOS is not like murder. SE is NOT a governmental agency. Breaking their TOS is not breaking a law (I guess selling gil is selling their property, but the entire TOS is not about gil).

If the gilsellers were not as prevalent, it would be like it was before. Remember what that was? The JP stole my NM! Someone MPKed me! Server propagation unfair!, etc, etc.

Let the gilsellers stay. They are less of a problem to me then the immature 13 year olds being total morons on the game.
#20REDACTED, Posted: Dec 27 2004 at 8:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kiyokatsu, i have a question..Numberthree claim he was a sinagporean? Im frm singapore,so far in singapore do not have many ffxi players and i know alot of ppl playing ffxi frm different server as im working in a lanshop aka cybercafe..Your frm fairy server eh? Great,i will ask some of my friends abt it..And i never been to a singapore gil-selling site before! lol
#21 Dec 27 2004 at 8:19 PM Rating: Default
446 posts
I applaud you for realizing that there are real people behind
the characters that we have all come to either dislike or mutually accept.

Yes while we all in game socially consider these people outcasts
because of what they do there really is no need to go any further than reporting them if you can in fact confirm that they are participating in action that is in fact violating TOS the you are well within your rights to report them and if they
do get banned then well it's their own fault.

But as a side note I am on the Bismarck server and we had a notorious gang called the Jerry's. Granted they were Gil-sellers but the people who were behind the character were actually pretty fun to talk to. I have to admit that through them I actually became inclined to try to learn romanji/chinese/japanese. Sadly to my benefit they were booted off the server. Fortunatly that meant 1 less Gil-selling ring on Bismarck.

While we all might hate them we have to face it that no matter what SE does sadly they will never be able to fully exterminate the Gil-sellers no matter how hard they try. This reminds of when I read about Ye Olde Salem Witch Trials....

Hopefully we can all learn to get along and come to a mutually acceptable compromise with them. Or they get booted off the game permanantly >;p

In any event rate up for your good intentions.
#22 Dec 27 2004 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
609 posts
I find the one claiming to be Singaporean interesting...
It is a rarity for one who plays through an english client to be unable to speak english at all. Besides.. it takes roughly 600 US$ a month just to be able to squeak through a living in Singapore (assuming the person is renting an apartment with friends and paying for internet connection, daily necessitites etc) One could live a lot better in China for that kind of money.
#23 Dec 27 2004 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
Its only a matter of time before SE does get the idea: "hey, all these people are making money on this stuff, why don't we just make the money directly?"

I can see a future where game makers give the game away for free and sell the items for money. Think of the "Magic the Gathering" model. You have to buy the cards from them, many of them in fact to be able to play effectively, and then you can go and sell the cards yourself on ebay.

In fact, this whole thing about gil sellers isn't really that different from paying for any other type of information. The money is just information that can be obtained through some artificial means, and that information has value in the real world, similar to the information in newspapers, the information that comes to you in the form of television programs, etc. The idea of information selling is, in fact, so similar to many existing business models that people pay for all the time that it leads to information gathering agencies like pricegrabber.com and gilsearch.com, and it leads to advertising agencies like valueclick.com and ww0.adforum.com.

In the new economy, people pay for information just like they did in the old economy.
#24 Dec 27 2004 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
128 posts

I too find the one claiming to be Singaporean very interesting.

Kiyokatsu>> Can you speak English?
Numberthree>> No way!

Agree with Oogami and besides, one can hardly find someone in Singapore who does not understand or speaks English (it's consider as their first language.) But of course, nothing is impossible..

Haiz.. gil sellers or not..it is still the choice of the players whether to continue with this game. If we ever look at a different perspective, why not all the "hatred" divert to those gil buyers instead of sellers?:

Smzhhh>> Are you in the USA?
Kiyokatsu>> Yes
Smzhhh>> There are a ton of people who buy gil there

One side of the earth, there are people who have too much money to spend and they made a choice to spend on virtual money. However, on the other side of the earth, there are a bunch of people who needed money for their daily bread..and all these, who can we blame? The sellers? for meeting the needs of the potential buyers? Or the buyers? for wanting to be pro-gamers to appear in their most expensive equipment in one simple visa transaction?

Something that seem so simple, but it does not seem so afterall.. so peace ^^ gil sellers or not, gil buyers or not, one can still have a free-choice whether to play this game. Like it - Play, Dislike it - Quit. I am just thankful that I am still alive and able to play my favourite FF game instead of being swept away by the Tsunami.


Edited, Mon Dec 27 21:37:21 2004 by peachie
#25 Dec 27 2004 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
970 posts
Interesting, to say in the least.

Without a doubt there are real people behind the computer, but unfortunately, the way many of them go about camping certain items (trains, interrupting with people just trying to farm, etc.) earns them little sympathy. Add to the fact that many people are having their entertainment (something they do to escape from the grind of their everyday, busy lives in some cases) interrupted by these people earns them even less.

Needless to say, they took a chance when they decided to break the TOS (albeit unconciously in some cases, as you did indicate some of them cannot read english well -- but ignorance isn't much of an excuse).

Ah well, interesting again, and ethical dilemmas are fun.
#26 Dec 27 2004 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
129 posts
I find the one with the Singaporean very interesting. I lived there for 5 yrs and their standard of living is higher than US. 90% of their populations there speaks English (10% due to older generations) and I am very sure 100% of the people 40 years or below speaks English since English is their first language in school.

Nevertheless, making money using currency greater than Sing dollars is probably doable at $1.3x to US dollars. However, I do not think he'll survive by just selling gil at current market rate especially in Singapore.

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