Confessions of Gil-sellerFollow

First off, this post is not about whether I approve or disapprove of gil buying/selling. However, I do applaud Kiyokatsu for the great efforts put into it. Now, something for all of you (myself included) to think about. :)

Let's say PersonA works a regular job. He/she may have school also and probably a family to take care of, too. Now this PersonA has some RL money he/she would like to spend for his/her enjoyment for the little time he/she has. He/she could go to the movies or rent some videos, or go to a concert or a night club, even. But he/she already had enough driving from commuting to and from work but doesn't want to drive more than necessary so he/she would like to do something for enjoyment at home during the little time he/she has. So, he/she decides to play this game. Since he/she has already faced w/ the daily grind IRL for RL money for his cost of living (bills, etc), he/she doesn't want to spend what's left of his/her time (that he/she has to him/herself) to face the grind of a game... (farming, getting experience points, camping NMs and so on...). So PersonA decides to buy gil online, reducing the TIME required for him/her to get somewhere in the game.

Now we have PersonB, whom probably live in China or even in USA. If PersonB is in USA, he could have a network of complex bots farming (camping NMs, fish botting, etc.) to make his living instead of commuting to work for 8-10 hrs a day and deal with the office/workplace politic BS. (We all been thru this at some point. You know what I'm talking about. If you don't, then obviously you're too young to be commenting IMO.) Or if PersonB is in some 3rd world country where he/she could find the only means of good paying job that can support his college fees or his family. (FYI, not all countries offer finacial aid from the goverment or even have scholarships. Some cases, there are too much corruption in the goverment that a smart student will not get scholarship. This will be another thread.) Whether the job is working some factory or playing a game. In this case, he/she gets paid for playing game by killing some mobs to get the drops and then sell it on AH for gil. Then, sell his/her service (time and effort) spent on finding those gils to a potential buyer that's willing to pay RL money for it.

Now ask yourself this, you (implying PersonA) watch TV for news and sports. Who pays those reporters and the broadcasting station (implying PersonB)? The advertisers (implying the medium where the support of information is transferred like online gil buy/sell site). Who pays the advertisers? YOU!!! When you buy their product(s) and service(s). (I will not get into economics since it's beyond the scope of this thread and forum :)

In the end, it all comes down to PersonA not having the TIME to get the information he wants in the the little TIME he has and PersonB whom has the time to find that information PersonA is looking for. All information has certain value to it, whether it be about RL events or E(lectronic) events. In this case, that information is "gil".

In order words, if you're investing too much of your TIME in the game trying to get the best items possible from the game and you're complaining then you have a SERIOUS problem. Why not spend that time in RL to get the best stuff possible? Don't tell me that you don't care about materials because you obviously do if you complain about how this person and that person has better gears than you in game. When was the last time you looked at your /playtime?

I've been playing this game since November of 2003 and I've noticed some people are too obsessed getting the best items in game while they quit from school and work in RL. My playtime will shock all of you. I don't ever log off because:
a) I work from home and I do work with servers, networks, security, etc... leaving the FFXI Client online 24/7/365 only to further test where my computer/network skills may have flawed
b) takes too many steps to logon and my computers run 24/7/365

I'm only offline when:
1) my ISP goes down (like every night at around 2 AM... why is this so when I pay for a 24/7/365 connection... granted when there's a new notorious virus/worm or big major natural disaster but everynight if not every other night?)
2) SE servers disconnects me or FFXI Client crashes... /sigh

If you wonder, no... I never have nor will I ever buy gils. I have no need of it. When I started this game, I made notes of where I can buy everything, the NPC prices, and how much are they selling for on AH. It's like importing and exporting. It's amazing when you just starting without a subjob and making 5-10k gils overnight when you come back to the game the next day. I also did gardening and farming, some crafting. Now, I just kill high level NMs. Yes, I play this game for the challenges it offers:
1) the mob's abilities
2) your abilites as the job & race
3) how to best use your abilities to counter the mob's

Last time I went to solo some avatars (not Fenrir) as lv75 RDM/NIN for challenges, I killed each them in about 12 minutes without even trying hard. I don't have scorpion harness and enhancing sword. I'd like to get the scorpion harness but I'm not about to take time from RL tasks to get something in game. :)

"You think being able to speak a bit of Chinese makes you better than others?"

Were you too busy selling gil to read this thread?

Who gives a flying **** about the TOS? IS your enjoyment more important thansomeones life? Would you abandon your family or o something illegal? Im from levihathan and ive made some goood gilfarmer<selller i dunno never asked> friends. In fact deedlitx helped my friend get aa ring to buy a sniper and is working on helping me get gluttony sword. Those gilfarmers are nice and supporfull. Without them <i wont tell name because he will get spam attacks> wouldnt have his sniper.

lol too funny.

Thanks to those who posted in support for gil selling/buying, lets everyone know who to blacklist or PK or whatever in game.

I'm just curious, Yunoh. Have you been to China? If so, how long did you stay? Did you blend in with the people and lived among to see their lifestyles, their hardship? Their goverment controls everything and so too it's corrupted. What's China population? What's the unemployment rate? Government jobs will go to the sons & relatives of goverment officials then their closest friends. If you don't have any connections, you're out of luck. As for other jobs in the industry like manufacturing, etc... you need a college degree since they will not even consider you unless you got strong ties/influences in the government, again corruption. No matter how they (Chinese goverment) deny it, you do not see until you blend in and live among the people. What's the chance of you graduating from college because college is expensive and there's no goverment help like financial aid here in US and you can't get a decent job to pay for college since it requires a college degree in the first place? So you're left to find any job that can support your family or your college fees as long as that job doesn't break the laws in the country you live in, correct?

Let me ask you this also, are all your games, software, Operating System, and music (including MP3s) legitimately bought? If you have 1 that's not legitimate, what's your excuse or "motive" then?

I'm not saying that's it's OK to violate copywrite or bootleg because it's obviously wrong for economic and moral reasons. Everytime someone obtains a pirated/bootleg copy of something, the company (movie studio, recording studio, software company) loses money from potential sales. If too much loss, they have to raise their price on their products to stay in business. In the end, the consumer gets hurt for paying the higher price.

As for everyone else, if you put that much time and effort into a game to obtain the best items possible, I feel sorry for you. Why not put that same effort IRL and get the best stuff from life or travel the world? Just something for everyone to think about... :)

Why do people keep saying it's illegal? It's not. It only violates the ToS of the game, you cannot get prosecuted for selling gil.

Seems like you don't even feel sorry for what you did. You cheat people, and coerce them into thinking you want to practice your Chinese, then go and call a GM. People confide in you and then you betray them. You (plural, apparently referring to the people on this forum as well) feel and act so honorable and glorious, you act like selling gil is so terrible, but what about this type of cheating and deceit? I'll remind you of a little proverb: two wrongs don't make a right. You think you can play with Chinese language? I've got 6 words for you (6 chinese characters): American people don't even have fundamental qualities of humans. (This last part is confusing, I don't really know how to translate it. Maybe the last sentence is slightly wrong)

EDIT: So there's no confusion, this is a translation of the Chinese.

Edited, Thu Jan 6 14:24:45 2005 by divisortheory

Great post..very interesting..everyone will always have different opinions of gil selling tho. I am not for it at all, it keeps all of us who deserve some of the game items from ever getting them. Rate up!!

That sounds A bit wrong, in a country that you arent even supposed to tip in. The taxi drivers treat you like king's and everyone is more than willing to help you out. You must have China confused with America.

Let's read carefully over the first sentence there. Are you implying that we should sacrifice some degree of our fun (note: I'm not being extreme here and saying we should stop having fun) so these people can live better? It's an honest question there, actually.

Secondly, the second is something of an extreme example. I've noticed that anyone who has the funds to acquire a peacock charm, or rather do it within a reasonable time limit don't complain much about gil sellers; your high level crafters, your people who do HNM runs / dynamis.

In addition to that, I don't think these people are trying to be "uber" (in some cases, anyway), in some cases they're trying to afford one or two pieces of equipment (admittedly pricey -- Sniper's Ring, Haubergeon, etc.) that are driven higher by the economy (gil sellers / buyers aren't the ONLY problem, but they are a notable enough one)

Finally, I won't deny that Americans in many cases (if not 99%) do have a higher standard of living than most of these people. But your post almost holds the dangerous implication that life is good, we don't have to work hard, etc. etc. Some of your FF population are in fact the people who don't have to worry much about anything aside from school and their social lives (I'm not picking on these people, just noting that). Then you have the people who have to juggle school and a job (in some cases two) in order to support themselves. Don't they have the right to play this game without the hassle of these people?



This person encapsulates one of my big points; this is a "reward" for many people who work full time, or go to school full time and work, or have to take care of their families. By every means they're entitled to enjoy this game without having to put up with this. In fact, they have EVERY right to be annoyed, and as mean as it sounds, unsympathetic in many cases.

Again, another thing I'm noting..the people who are really hurt by the gil sellers are those middle or lower end people who try to get their items.."legitly" (I use this term loosely..perhaps 'rawly' might be better). Rather than farming the 700k for an Emperor Hairpin, Sniper's Ring, or whatnot, they actually want to feel like they've earned it, thus camp the monsters.

Now, the gil sellers pay their monthly fee and are entitled to camp too. Competition is one thing..but you have to admit, MANY of them are outright jerks when it comes to camping NMs -- from training mobs on you, to even disrupting some of the people trying to farm placeholders.

And what of the people trying alternative means? Mining and Logging -- yes, there are other mining locations such as Ifrit's and Movapolis (which not everyone has access too) -- so how does it feel when a person tries to resort to other means aside from camping to get these mobs?

And to play Devil's advocate here, who is to say that some of them aren't lying about their stories? I can admit that they might be true in alot of cases, but I don't put it past human nature to lie about that and garner sympathy, producing posts such as "We should feel sorry for gil sellers.."

Then we have the issue of gil buyers being a problem. I won't touch that much here, other than to say we're part of the problem (maybe not everyone in specific, but "we" as a community..) for producing the "You must have <insert 2 million gil item here> to succeed" mentality. Person A who makes $20 or more an hour can drop that sort of money on bought gil, rather than go through the agony that's farming (yes, most of the time I find farming rather boring, I have my other means of money, though).

It's all a tricky issue..but quite frankly, the argument that "We should feel bad for them.." is going to fall on deaf ears most of the time. It's hard when 1 - People's entertainment is seriously being messed with (yes that's shallow, but they have their right to enjoyment) 2 - Not ALL of these people are the extreme cases made out to be; i.e. they're doing these to feed their family of four and 3 - Many of the times, they're just outright asses about their methods (not to say that some JP, NA, EU, etc. players aren't slimy about it..but MOST don't resort to trains on you).

how hard is it understand this. <do you accept the terms of agreement?> *click* <yes>


<gillseller> uh yeah I sell gil online. I do it support my family of three.... the economy is out of control... I mean I can find a job ANYWHERE in China. But I choose to only make $7usd a day.
<legitplayer> Really?? I'm calling a GM

<gillseller> Oh no!!! i violated the terms of service. and now my account and my job is Gone!! Gone!!! What will I do? ;;
Rules are Rules. Follow, bend or break them but the there are consequences.

I know that gilselling will probably always happen but:
Just a comment and something to think about...

If they hate gilselling and they dont make even close to decent amount of money even to their standards...then why do it. Instead of breaking the law, why don't they get a job that they could learn a trade or gain working experience. I don't think gillselling is going to get them anywhere in life, even if they are good at it.


Edit: Before I recieve a response that is not of an intelligent nature, I should also add that I understand getting a job can be hard, and in some countries even harder, but I think it would be in their best interest to try. I dont think that gilselling will enhance their career or money-making skills in any way.

Edited, Sat Jan 8 09:20:09 2005 by Kalevias

wow paying someone to fish and mine for you.... I think thats what these companies like IGE do. They pay people to fish, mine, and camp NM's. But the question you have to ask is, are you making a real monetary profit from paying someone to fish, mine, or camp an NM for you?
ESRB ratings are descriptors, not a a tobbaco and alcohol minimum buying age. Retail stores make it so you someone that is 6 years can't buy a game like GTA.