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Confessions of Gil-sellerFollow

#127 Jan 22 2005 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
36 posts
Truely amazing that it has taken you guys this thread to realize that the chinese gil farmers you see on FFXI are there becuase they simply are trying to make a living in a highly difficult enviroment.

Do I think this topic maker was wrong in what he did? Well, I guess I could point the finger calling him a bad person, but for awhile he was just as blind as most players on this game are, bent only on himself and the game. However, I don't think he really considered the consequences of the character being banned or what would happen to the person behind the controller. After it all, he reconsidered what he had done and questioned himself, which is certainly a good thing.

I think what people need to learn from this is that the gil sellers are something you will have to deal with in either paying the price of guilt or doing nothing and possibly seeing your profits or time on this game raise. I personally don't care enough to take someones living away from them. I'll play a few extra days to make my gil if I have to.
#128 Jan 22 2005 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
452 posts
DustedOne wrote:
very intriguing, I must say... "Hello Kiyokatsu, it is I, GM Ezramin." hahaha, the very first GM who flaunted his job.

I think he put the S behind his name to indicate he was a senior GM. I could be wrong tho.
#129 Feb 11 2005 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default
I apologise that this has to be my first post on this board, especially after just registering; in my weak defence, however, I am a seasoned lurker. For the record I do not buy or sell gil.

I am upset that so many people are comparing the Gil-sellers to drug dealers, mobsters, and the like. As divisortheory noted, these people are not doing something illegal here; they are violating SE's terms of service. Violating ToS isn't by any means noble and should be frowned upon, but please, let us keep things in perspective. If Square-Enix made laws over things like the drug trade and organized crime, I'm quite sure we'd be opening our magazines to adverts for Square branded crack pipes and 'protection for the month' subscriptions. Let's remember, SE isn't always looking out for you, they are looking out for your wallet.

Also, for the people clamering that these gilsellers may not be forthcoming on their actual financial income in gil-selling, let's remember how hard it is to get 500,000 gil; somehow I doubt the real-world currency they recieve for half-a-million gil makes this as lucrative an investment as some of the crime-orientated practices you are relating them to. (Give me 24 hours to sell a kilo of cocaine and I think I'll come out with a bit more dough)

So can we stop comparing these people to Al Capone and Scarface? Morals aside these people were very kind to Kiyokatsu, even under the precept that gil and real-world money were not going to be changing hands between them. Kiyokatsu himself said that they were "friendly and engaging." So no, I don't feel sorry for them because they are poor, I feel sorry for them because they are obviously nice people who where duped.

With a great deal of respect to Kiyokatsu, I can't agree with what he did; posting these dialogues without notifying the GMs would have been equally enlightening for all of us. It's a game; if you think removing all gil-sellars is going to make it heck of a lot better, then you aren't going to be happy with any MMOG because there will always be something people are going to be taking advantage of - it's human nature. I for one say our viatrol would be better focused on reporting the numerous @$$hats that knock around on the servers than some kid that spends 12 hours a day making 20 USD and violates SE's sacred ToS.

Edited, Fri Feb 11 11:39:09 2005 by FidoOne
#130REDACTED, Posted: Feb 11 2005 at 11:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) How?
#131 Feb 11 2005 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
93 posts
God damn thats some crazy **** man thanks for the heads up its kind of interesting to see what they are going through. I still hate them though for making my item cost so much ^^. Rate up for your time.
#132 Feb 11 2005 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
1,239 posts
just want to ask you a simply quest.

do you support nike to use cheap chinese labour so they can turn in a lot of profits?

i think some of you don't give a damn about it anyway.

#133 Feb 11 2005 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
fiorina has a point.

But it's the nature of people to care about others, or to care only for themselves.

Those who have had hardships will want to protect others from them, those who have had a good life will scorn those who do not.

But the argument is true, if you have a poor life, it still does not justify doing something wrong.
#134 Feb 19 2005 at 4:18 PM Rating: Default
I read this forum quite a bit, and get on Allakhazam to read up every now and then, so after reading this thread, I finally opened up an account, and figured I'll start participating.

I seriously cannot believe some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread. You simply cannot slice this accordingly at all, it's way too complex. Most definitly not as easy as a lot are making it out to be. I hear people saying "Get a different job". To those of you in the US, and other places where the unemployment rate is relatively lower than others... you have to remember, a lot of these people live in areas where jobs are significantly scarce.

I also hear people comparing Gil-Selling to Drug Dealing. Are you fricken kidding me? You cannot even compare the two. In drug dealing, people get killed, peoples lives fall apart, people become addicted to a substance. The only terrible thing you could possibly make to Gil-Selling, is that they are illegally exploiting gameplay and transacting real currency from it. It's not like Square Enix is losing money from this.

But the biggest complaint I see people give, is not from Gil-Sellers, but from Gil-Buyers; because they're cheating to get ahead, whereas the non-Gil-Buying player spends countless hours. If someone else wants to cheat, ***** them, how does that effect you? Yeah, it sucks, but instead of ********* make fun of them. Seriously, they are not getting the full game play experience like everyone else is, and are therefore, losing out.

I really don't care for Gil Buying or Selling one way or another, it doesn't affect me at all, I'm playing to game to have fun. Most of the politics of online gameplay are really retarded, including, and especially cheating and gil-selling or buying.

But, until you live in that persons particular shoes, you cannot possibly tell them to go get a different job, because unemployment, for all you know, where they live, could be 30%. It could be almost impossible to find a job, much less a DECENT paying job. If Americans are stupid enough to cheat and buy the gil, then let them have their business.

Companies all over the US are exploiting workers, and ******** over stockholding employees, and families entire lives are ruined over it, and you're crying over someone soiling in your game playing? Or someone else not following the TOS as well as any MMORPG ettiquette? Seriously, there are worse things in life other than gil-selling or buying. Take some time to look at the bigger picture.
#135 Feb 20 2005 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
"FidoOne" wrote:
I am upset that so many people are comparign Gil-sellers to drug dealers, mobsters, and the like. As divisortheory noted, these people arent' doing something illegal here; they are violating SE's terms of service...

In fact, the Terms of Service constitute a legally binding contract to which every player must agree as the governing principals of game play. Notice this in the Terms of Service:

"PlayOnline Member Agreement" wrote:
IMPORTANT - This PlayOnline Member Agreement is a binding legal agreement between SEUI and you ("you"), and sets forth the terms and conditions that govern our use of the PlayOnline Service...

This is a binding legal agreement, and violating such an agreement is a violation of the law of Japan, or the State of California, or whatever laws the European version is governed by. Ignorance of the law is no excuse to defy it, and no governmental agency will go easy one a murderer or drug trafficker simply because they didn't know it was illegal.

As for ownership, the PlayOnline Member Agreement makes it clear who owns all rights to every piece of data generated by the service:

"PlayOnline Member Agreement" wrote:
4.1 Ownership and Rights. SEUI (and, to the extent applicable, its licensors) owns and shall retain all right, title and interest in and to the PlayOnline Service, the Software and all Documentation, and wil be the sole owner of any and all data you generate through your use of the PlayOnline Service...

Thus gil sellers are selling data (in this case, gil) which the Member Agreement clearly defines as being owned completely by Square-Enix. I'm not entirely certain of the law involved, but I'm pretty sure that selling something that belongs to someone else is "trafficking in stolen goods" or something along those lines, and is a valid, real-world crime.

Furthermore, Square-Enix makes it clear that by using PlayOnline and relted services, you MUST agree to be governed the Member Agreement, and that any violation of the Member Agreement is legal grounds for termination of your acount.

Now tell me how you're not doing anything illegal by breaking your contract? By selling property that, regardless of how you feel, you have agreed belongs to someone else. Every time you log in to FFXI you hit a button that says you Agree to be bound by the Member Agreements for PlayOnline and Final Fantasy XI. For everyone using the north American release, Square-Enix can summon you to court in California if you iolate the Member Agreement and press legal charges on you because you have broken a LEGAL CONTRACT with them.

Violating the law is violting the law, and though the punishments for each volation are just in their own ways, there must be punishments for all violators of the law. Violation of a legal contract, such as the Member and License Agreements set forth by every MMOG is a violation of the law, and legal retribution can be exacted, though (because of the costs) SEUI chooses not to do it in this fashion. However, SEUI has set up terms within the contract that provide their own reticution for violations of the contract -- they can terminate (suspend or ban) accounts so long as they have reason to believe that the user of said account is in violation of the Member Agreement or License Agreement.

Edit: I forgot to close some tags...

Edited, Sun Feb 20 15:26:56 2005 by Kharon
#136 Feb 20 2005 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
It sounds horrible for them. I honestly dont get angry at the people who are camping for the most part, only their bosses. I have talked to a gil seller as well, one that knew enough English to talk to me, and I knew enough chinese to fill in some blanks. Most of them said that there are these men who go talk to kids, and say they can show them a way to make money for their family by playing video games. They usually dont know what they are getting into, and to someone who is not familiar with the game, they dont know the damage it causes.

The boss will show them what to do, where to camp. He tells them what to do to make NMs spawn, how to kill them etc. The ones I talked to had quotas ranging from 1mil to 1.75mil. The bosses get extremely angry when they dont make the quotas, and threaten them that they will fire them, when that money they are making their could be what is keeping their family afloat. It is almost slave labor in some instances. One of them even said the boss would hit him if he didnt make at least 500k a day. He was 14 years old. To some of the bosses, they are just people filling seats, some of which work for 18 to 20 hours a day to make their quotas.

It makes me feel kind of stupid for being angry at them for spawn camping. That I am upset because they are mildly upseting the balance of a game that I played, when they are doing this for food for their families, trying to not get in trouble with their bosses.

Note: Not all are this way. I talked to one set of them that were just friends who did it for extra money. They were more well-off then these other kids etc.
#137 Feb 20 2005 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
This is alannor_ffxi

This is done with my friend's account because i am over at his place atm and i cant remember my password.

My original post was in Chinese because i want to direct it at Kiyokatsu. But people miss understand it so for everyone's benefit i will post in English this time.

I wrote this post because i believe that Kiyokatsu has no remorse and is proud of his actions. Why? Because even though he said he is conflicted about what he did he still comes on to this forum to boast about what he did. You wanted to look like a saint to others by showing that you have done a 'good deed' and yet still show compasion to the people you hurt. But if you really sorry and confused about what you did then why did you post here?

In my opinion you posted here because you wanted to show off. You know a little bit of chinese and you think you played these people for fools because you were able to exploit their curiosity. If you truly feel conflicted and sorry for what you did then why did you come here to post and let everyone know about something that you feel bad about? I find the logic behind it, very strange!

Lets step back abit and look at the bigger picture. Gil selling is a major problem, one that SE is trying to deal with the recent banning of 800 accounts. Buy how did Gil sellers come about anyway? Because people are willing to pay, and have the attitude i am so loaded i can buy anything i want. How many people post on these forums to bash gil sellers and secretly buy gil? You would be really surprised. Even with gil sellers in the game there are literally a million ways to make money in this game. You complain about not being able to compete against gil farmers in camping NM... etc? Well thats too bad your skill is just too weak. You say they are botters? Well there are just as many if not more NA botters. So to make everything into generalizations like what NA players do why dont we just call all of you guys Gil Buyers(because despite the fact that you guys are shouting and complaining about Gil Sellers you are still able to buy things like sniper's ring, haubegeon ...etc)!

Fact is not all NA players buy gil; not all chinese people sell gil; not all gil sellers are botters; even if you get rid of the current batch of gil sellers there will be more because there is a demand; even if there was not a single chinese player in this game there will still be people selling gil, currently chinese players are willing to do it for cheaper thats why NOT AS MANY NA and JP players do it because they can easily get a job that pays better (there are some NA and JP players who sell gil, they can make money much faster at high level doing BC, HNM ...etc) (If you did a bit of reasearch Chinese gil sellers on your server only started popping up when IGE was selling gil for about $200+US per million. Gil selling start because AMERICAN companies like IGE said: hmmmm we can make a real profit here facilitating RMT rather then people trying for pot luck on eBay.)

Instead of ranting here about gil seller this and gil seller why dont you make sure everyone has the decency not to buy gil? If there is no demand then there will be no gil sellers.

Finally, Kiyokatsu, American quote :"Dude! Get a life!" wasting 12 hours of your life so that you can show off what you did is, plainly put... SAD.

P.S What is with Americans and this over whelming sense of self righteousness? Why do you have to take it upon yourselves to be the police of the world (as in earth, RL) and now the police of Vanadiel. (Are you going to bomb Ordello's Cave or Valkrum in your next hunt for gil sellers?)
#138 Feb 20 2005 at 11:52 PM Rating: Excellent
154 posts
I have so many things that I want to say regarding this whole thread, but I will keep it short instead.

First, I am glad to see that so many of you, especially the ones that got rated down in this thread, are operating at post-conventional moral stage here. You are able to see things beyond just right/wrong and legal/illegal.

Second, as I expected, many of the people here are still at conventional stage. But considering they are still adolescences (which I hope they are), it's quite normal.

It's a waste of time to argue about this moral issue if you are in different stages, especially when one group cannot see beyond legal=good and illegal=bad.

The whole issue of "I pay for my fun so you can't ruin it" is also not surprising coming from individualistic culture. You are not wrong for thinking that way. But respect people who are more cultivistic.

Also, as many have said, this has not changed anything. The cycle of less sellers = easy entrance = new sellers will keep revolving forever as long as there's demand.

#139 Feb 21 2005 at 12:49 AM Rating: Default
Here is my 2 gil...

Gilsellers can not be stopped. Communist China and other 3rd world countries will always have the upper hand because life sucks so bad over there that they have to play FFXI all day long just to make a few extra dollars. IMHO, this should not stop us from doing our best to stop gilsellers. I really don't care how sucky someones life is. All i know is, is that i live in the greatest country in the world, the USA. Now true, some of those guys didn't like to do it. But we should be after the "boss" not the workers. POL shuts down one account, they just make another. We have to shut down the buisness itself. There are several ways of doing this...

1. Don't buy gil. I will give everyone gil if that just stops morons from buying it.
2. Regional Servers. This will help alot. This makes it to where crazy china people can't sell gil to stupid americans, because of course, things can not be moved from server to server.
3. Soul bound items like in WoW! Sure we have our rare/ex but there isn't enough stuff that is rare/ex. Make it to where the best stuff can not be bought. And make it to where if you get an item once, you can't ever get it again! True this will make the game more challening, but hey isn't that why we play rpg's to begin with?
4. RATE UP! Man, you did a great job playing those guys for suckers. However, i felt discomfort when you said you really liked those people. They are the enemy and should be stopped at all costs. It sounds like to me that if you just sat down and had a beer or two and just BS'ed with Hitler, you would like him to just because he was nice to you. I judge people by how they treat other people, not by how they treat me.

But anyway, i'm sure many of you won't even read this because there are all ready 137 posts on this one of a kind thread.
#140 Feb 21 2005 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
i feel bad for them >< thats meger pay ; ;
#141 Feb 27 2005 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
To the original poster:

I applaud you for being a two faced piece of ****. How long did it take you to pull out your knife and stab them in the back? Not too long obviously.

You said and I quote "I have to admit, whether or not my reports end up banning the lot of them, and despite the fact that I’d rather play in a Vana’Diel free of gil sellers, I have become genuine friends with many of them."

So in your mind enjoying a video is greater than someone's means of generating income? Wow! your a true crusader arent you ridding Vana'Diel of gil sellers. But hey it was your decision, its not my karma. You better hope someday someone doesnt **** you as hard.
#142 Feb 27 2005 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
i too have spoken with a gill seller in pandamonium, at first i
tried to cuss him out but he thought i was funny and started talking to me (he wouldnt stop). as he kept talking i realized that he was really nice. my freind started talking to him too (they were both camping Kote, the botter/gillseller guy had already got 2) and after my freind didnt get the drop after killing mee degi 12 times the gill seller said "u need kote i help" and basically helped my friend with his bots and stuff.
he explained how to time the drop to the second and although
he didnt get kote he did get fuma kyahan.i couldnt bring myself to hate the gill seller after that but still dont like what he does. i feel really bad for them. anyways i just wanted to post my experience with a gill seller.
#143 Feb 27 2005 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
hey he was doing what he thought was right you have no right to yell at him for that. i know that gill sellers are good people but rules are rules and profiting off of ff11 is (corect me if im wrong) is against the user agreement. if we let somone get away with breaking rules/laws just because we feel bad for them the what kind of society would we have?
#144 Feb 27 2005 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
69 posts
Wow. I didn't think people did it for a living, it is sad....
#145 Feb 28 2005 at 12:43 AM Rating: Decent
55 posts
I find it strange that people complain so much about Gil sellers, in game, or in forums such as this.. And when someone shows documented cases of exposing gil sellers and getting to know a little more about them.... A large part of the accounts jump out of the shadows lashing that your a two faced "Piece of Sh*t"

First here's something: Yes, jobs over in counties such as china are far more difficult to obtain, this is true.

on the other hand, just because they have it rough, it doesn't gives them the right to violate laws set by the companies. It doesn't makes it all right to make a profit off of one companies toil.

And then there are those who are angered that the people's accounts and way of money is now gone (atleast most likely), and that its horrible that you've thrown them into poverty.

If you feel bad for someone who sold data from software in order to make money illegally... then its no different than say..

Feeling bad for a drug dealer getting busted for selling drugs to people, now you may say 'oh those are two radically different things!' Really? They're both illegal... both are against a set of rules in place from a higher power.

It is true and I do admit this: That as long as Americans are willing to buy Gil, there will be those who seek to provide these illegal goods.

I feel that justice should not feel sorry for someone since its 'only data' you broke the law, your not going to be forgiven and patted on the back because your life is rough.

Sadly nothing said here will change anything happening on the internet, that is up to those brave enough to try and stop them, and the GM's who lay down the hammer stroke.
#146 Feb 28 2005 at 2:49 AM Rating: Decent
3,112 posts
Honestly, I didn't give a **** about a gilseller until I read this thread. Even if they break a single rule in the ToS I could not bring myself to put a human being on the street, unable to feed his or her family over a video game after reading this.

Sure, I would MPK them, undercut their sales of Archer's Rings, and steal their mining points in game. But to bring the fight outside of vanadiel in such a serious manner now seems rediculous. We are playing for enjoyment, they are playing 12 hour shifts because they have to. You can't have a social life on 12 hour shifts. You can not smile easily making 9.375 dollars per day.

I hear nothing of good things about these people's attitude and demeanor when people chat with them, yet they are labeled as the games worst players. You say they had woodworking to 98, and only synth logs. Imagine where the price of arrows would be if they didn't. Lower the supply and the price rises. Congratulations. You just got a very helpful player banned.

In all honesty, the average player makes this game less fun. The average player is the one who is rushing to 75, gouging prices when he farms, doesn't craft often, and when he does, he sells to NPC, lowering supply on items, and adding more gil to a gilfarmers pockets AND the economy as a whole. The average player doesn't give gifts, doesn't help with quests, and doesn't level without uber1337 Rangers in the party, along with a ninja tank. The average player has caused much more trouble that a gilseller ever has.

I'm starting to see the truth. That everyone is greedy, and they get mad when someone who is doing it out of necesity is getting rewarded with what the greedy person wanted.

I don't thing that RMT is 100% right, but I understand. One line in the ToS is the only thing that makes it not right. People blame the gilsellers for infation. Can't be true. Gilsellers are known to farm, craft, and NM hunt. None of these acts bring new money into the system. They only take money out. The only way there was to consistently bring new money into the system was fishbotting. The economy will heal, unless they come back. The RMT craze is a witch hunt and a scapegoat. If you did not notice, they play this game too. They will be quiet players who fill out your parties from levels 10-75. They will not be spendy with their gil, because it is their next meal. They don't matter.
#147 Feb 28 2005 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
3,112 posts
Another thing you must think about. I am sure some high level crafters and campers will refute this, but just think about how hard their job must be, by looking at the prices on IGE.

1 mil = $40

How long would it take you to make 1 million gil solo? You could spend a few days camping leaping lizzy, and hope you get the boots twice and sell them. You could farm beastmen seals for a few days, and go do a bcnm and hope for astrals. And last but not least, you could craft, which would require a huge amount upstart capital just to be profitable. So, 1 million gil? $40? So, in your work week you made 40$ minus a brokerage fee to run it through IGE? Well. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound too cool to me.
#148 Feb 28 2005 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
45 posts
This is an amazing thread - there could be endless opinions but never an answer. This is a topic for a business / sociology / philosophy thesis. And I have found lots of very intelligent comments.

I dont know how many of those who expressed their sympathy towards the Chinese Gil-seller have actually been to China, lived there, experience the quality of living there, not to mention actually know who those guys really are.

I am Chinese, although I have spent 1/3 of my life living in the Western world - and that's well over a decade. China today is no longer what you think it is from a 1992 January edition of National Geographic. When I read the nice replies above, I felt there is a misunderstanding in the facts.

Today, there are still vast populations living in the rural parts of China. Yes, they are poor. Some, very poor. Those are the ones who have never seen a TV set, never slept on a mattress, and those are the ones who have barely enough to eat. For them, they probably have a problem with finding a tap with clean running water. Most of them are illiterate, and all those young people growing up there have never heard of Vana'diel - they only want an opportunity to go to school. I've met them face to face before. You will probably cry seeing what conditions they are living in. My family have been doing what we can in charity programs to help them build more schools and wells for clean water. Please feel free to have pity for them. They have mine.

As for the Gil-sellers. It's not difficult for me to imagine who these people are because I am now living there (well, I'm actually living in Hong Kong). And I have a lot more access to the Chinese society, and knowing what kind of people would pursue a job like this (Gil-selling or game-exploitation). Let me tell you who they likely are:

(1) they started out like all gamers - loved the games and find themselves addicted to them;

(2) dropped out from school, and couldn't find a decent job;

(3) spoiled young adults who live with their parents, using up their parents' money and still want more pocket money;

(4) they dont give a thought about their own future - just simply tolerated and get by with their pathetic situations (and meanwhile probably done nothing positive to improve it). And when being asked upon, they will tell people (Westerners) how poor they are and/or their little sad stories.

Now this doesnt make them bad. They can be real nice friends to anybody. I did not say they are bad people. It is just their choice of lifestyle, which I will not pity. And certainly I will not see it as a reasonable excuse for exploiting a game.

I am telling you this just so that you may have an idea from a different perspective about these people.

Some nice people mentioned the issue of unemployment. I am very touched by many kind hearts here who have spared their feelings for those who might lose their jobs as a result of SE confiscating their POL accounts. Thank you for your kindness and sympathy.

While unemployment is a global issue, the situation in China is not as bad as any of you thinks. From what I observed, anyone with healthy limbs could find a job there - because labour is always in high demand. If you are reasonably educated, you will even get a decent job quite easily. I guess if those guys could play so well on the computer and knowing all those tricks, they are probably the lucky ones whose parents had afforded them to school.

Think about the poor children in the rural regions I just mentioned. There is no excuse to be unemployed if you know how to operate a computer. I will not spare a slightest pity to these people if they lose their job as a game-exploiter.

I mean, if by losing that so-called job means they could wake up and get themselves a new life, then I think it is a true salvation for them. They should be very thankful when they look back later in their lives.

I am a game lover myself and I surely understand what it is like to play an online game (or any games). It is about laying down a sizable portion of your time (i.e. life), and conciously and willingly burning it in front of a screen. Of course, before they invented the PC, we have television, comics, novels ... and they all serve the same purpose. But it is interesting that in a MMORPG situation, it is a new concept - it's a complex consolidation of relationships between different players. No matter how insignificant the effect is contributed by any single player, each of the players are affecting one another.

Having said that, I will therefore not pass any opinons or judgements on whether Gil-trading is right or wrong, because you will always find valid arguements from both sides.

All these opinions in this thread represent the voices of players from different backgrounds and levels - just like different opinions in a real life society. And I think this diversity is an important aspect of a MMORPG. (If not, then why not go back and start a private TCP/IP multiplayer session with your friends who only shares the same values?)

Nevertheless, I can relate to the feelings of those who find Gil-trading annoying or vice versa. Life is not perfect - I wished there is only one race and one language in this world.

And finally, for those who mentioned the legal aspect of the argument. Criminal Laws and Civil Laws are two different subjects. The former relates to crimes that the State holds the prosecution. A criminal conviction leads to punishment such as fine and serving time in jail. Civil Laws deals with conflicts between people or commercial entities, like you, me and SE. Violation in the POL EULA will constitute a breach of contract, which is a civil matter. SE can terminate / confiscate the POL accounts and the commercial deal between SE and the violator is terminated. End of story.

In the real business world there are thousands of breach of contracts everyday - so many of them (petty and large) that most of the time you won't bother to rectify. For example, if you pay your credit card late, that's a breach of contract, and the credit card company reserves the rights to claim damages from you, or terminate your credit card account. I mean, it's not a big deal - you will get use to these imperfections. The Laws are only as good as they are enforced. This is a civil matter, the cops wont care, so the choice is yours. If you have a problem with Gil-trading, you dont go and sue the Gil-traders who has no money, you should go and sue big SE for not performing their duty in protecting your interests in the game(well, provided that such clauses do exist in the EULA. ...LOL)

As for myself, I enjoyed the game very much especially when role-playing with other nice players (who I belief represented the majority of the Vana'diel population). FFXI is a good game with spectacular background graphics and character designs. Perhaps we could enjoy it like a fine gourment and instead of hauling it down the stomach and not remembering how it tastes.

As I have read from another thread: the game is not a contest of seeing who can attain Lv75 first. I think the fun is spending the time in developing a personality for your in-game character - and be someone who you can never become in real life - instead of just rushing to the cap on each and every attributes.

Feuna - Rank 2 female Hume from Bastok of Remora
20WHM/13MNK/7BLM (just a beginner for all of you here :p)

Edited, Mon Feb 28 11:33:12 2005 by LesNuages
#149 Jul 20 2005 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
Thank you...

...I can't say how much I appreciate your ability to do what you've done, I can't take a standpoint on such a complex matter, and I love playing FFXI...very much~!

On my server (Carbuncle) The main focus is the "Ext" group whom farm gil, and I see them slapped and mocked in Jeuno constantly...

...is this the right course of action?

...I wish I knew after your post...

I wish goodwill towards all of my sisters and brothers, and I can't say I've ever complained nor slapped a gil farmer, I just can't do it, but cannot condemn those who do...

...I'm honoured that you've posted this, I feel very happy to have what I do, and hope a solution beyond banning and slapping presents itself.

And...as foolish as it is, {please forgive me...} (hehe)

...I cried reading this.

...Not in pity, but in the very thought that we can't come to a compromise of what we could or can do for eachother as a species.

Thank you, you've changed my outlook on many things, I don't know what to do with what I feel, but I hope that it's something honourable, and kind, and not selfish or degrading.


Server: Carbuncle
Linkshell: InfraGalaxia
#150 Jul 20 2005 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
We could get rid of the problem if people would simply stop buyig gil. We only have ourselves to blame.
#151 Jul 20 2005 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
2,169 posts
Wah, wah, wah. So many dears shed over people breaking the TOS. My god. If you want these people's lifes to be so much better, go move to China and get started with a plot to bring freedom to China and overthow the Chi-com goverment. Oh and watch out for the MSS, China leads the world in making detracters pay.
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