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Confessions of Gil-sellerFollow

#152 Jul 20 2005 at 6:04 PM Rating: Default
IMO, China-based and other offshore gilsellers are small potatoes, the real scum suckers are IGE and that ******* whose made himself a millionare doing this **** not just on FFXI but on just about every MMORPG anywhere.
#153 Jul 20 2005 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
2,259 posts
We cant say that with much sertinty. Unless we actually go there and evaluate living conditions and see multiple gil sellers lives we cannot judge for or against them. But It is like many people have said....how did they but a computer and internet and afford monthly payments?

You can build a computer that's capable of running FFXI without spending much money. A lot of computer components can be very old, and still work just fine. You could get a CD-ROM that was old as heck, forego a floppy drive, and get an old, low-wattage power supply. You'd probably find some IDE and FDD cables for free or really cheap, get a socket A motherboard that uses SDRAM and get an AMD processor, and then buy a cheap graphics card for around twenty bucks... throw in a 10GB HDD or so, and you have yourself a computer. Very inexpensive, but it will get the job done.
#154 Jul 20 2005 at 11:56 PM Rating: Default
Very informative. One thing though. I would cut down on using "big" words when it isn't neccesary to get your point across. Instead of making you sound smarter it just looks like your copying out of a dictionary.
#155 Jul 21 2005 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
I read this, and it spurred me to create an account just to reply. ^^

First, I am glad to see that so many of you, especially the ones that got rated down in this thread, are operating at post-conventional moral stage here. You are able to see things beyond just right/wrong and legal/illegal.

Second, as I expected, many of the people here are still at conventional stage. But considering they are still adolescences (which I hope they are), it's quite normal.

It's a waste of time to argue about this moral issue if you are in different stages, especially when one group cannot see beyond legal=good and illegal=bad.

The whole issue of "I pay for my fun so you can't ruin it" is also not surprising coming from individualistic culture. You are not wrong for thinking that way. But respect people who are more cultivistic.

Well, you just said everything I was thinking. Well done, I'd rate you up if I'd figured out how to do that yet.

I agree, it's very hard to discuss issues when half the people see black/white and the other half a million shades of grey.
In particular, illegal does not automatically mean wrong, and I'll give you an example:

My parents are both South African, and grew up their. My dad has Indian heritage, my mother English. They met and fell in love. Under apartheid. The law at the time stated that people of different races were not allowed to marry. It would have been illegal for them to do so.
But morally wrong? Can anyone honestly say that?
They had to move to the UK leaving their family and friends merely to get married.

This example is perhaps a little 'big' for the gilselling topic, it should at least make you think. Things aren't always as simple as they seem to you.

I'm glad this thread exists, it makes you think.^^
#156 Sep 19 2005 at 2:26 AM Rating: Default
I actually can relate to this, I know I might be shunned, neglected and abused... Whatever for this, but here's my short lil' story.

I did the same, I was furious with the gilsellers one day and decided to act friendly to get a admit from one that they sell gil, I pick one out randomly.. He replys to all my /tells right away, and very nicely. A few days of me talking to him, slowly working into getting him to admit, I realize how nice he is.. A man, 25 years old, he told me he was married and has a 7 year old daughter. He makes it by selling gil on FFXI, making just about no money in doing so, to feed his daughter and wife... Think about that for a little bit before I say, I offered to help him camp the NM he camped everyday. I did get an admission out of him and brought up my menu to call a GM, but did I? No. I felt total sympathy for him and his co-workers and spared him. (Until later I found out someone ratted him out, causing him and his friends' accounts to get banned). For a small time, I used to get on FF solely just to talk to this man and see how he was doing, sometimes helping him from time to time. This may sound corny, being this is coming from a game, but this man made me look a life in a totally different aspect. I don't know his status on what he is doing now, but for the sake of his wife and his daughter (hoping he'll someday read this), I wish you the best of luck, man. Take care.

I know what I did in assisting him was wrong and should get my account banned, so by all means feel free to inform SE of what I did and yada yada, get me banned for what I did. But I feel as if I helped this man's real life out, through game, by helping him earn just a few short bucks for his wife and kid. That's my little story.
#157 Sep 19 2005 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
600 posts
It's odd how many posters seem to have feelings of guilt over what they assume is the quality of life for the average RMT worker.

We pay and play for adventure and community; RMT is a bane on the community.

Someday, in a perfect world, all the poor gilsellers (call the whaaambulance) will have enough money that they can play FFXI just for fun, and feed their kids and even get copies of the game for their kids. Until then these botting, packet-sniffing, MPKing, "cao ni ma" /telling, monopolizing, price-gauging, ToS-violating gilsellers will be the target of the community's anger.

Also, I seem to remember all across this site reading posts by people who start out by saying "Now I myself don't camp NMs..." and go on to say things like "This is a witchhunt," or "They're (gilsellers are) just trying to feed their family."

Then you scroll down to the poster's sig and their highest level is 36. This is not a bash on people newer to the game, just reinforces my idea that people who sympathize with RMT have no idea what they're talking about yet.

The whole concept that "If there were no gilbuyers there would be no gilsellers" is backwards. Every gilseller banned makes Vana'diel a nicer place to inhabit and makes RMT gil less accessible.

The truth is, if there were no gilsellers, there couldn't be gilbuyers. The sellers started it, buyers perpetuate it but sellers make the whole BS phenomenon possible and destroy the integrity of our adventures.
#158 Sep 19 2005 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
6,631 posts
The truth is, if there were no gilsellers, there couldn't be gilbuyers.

In my opinion, arguing there is a supply than there is demand or there is demand and there is supply is Chicken-and-Egg. As they are always both supply and demand, and they come hand-in-hand. There are always people who want to buy gil, and there are always people are willing to sell gil for money.

It is probably true if you ban all gil sellers, or if there are no gil buyers than RMT would disappear, but that will never occur. It is best to manage the degree of RMT than end RMT. It will require efforts of both SE and players to manage RMT. Finger pointing is not where one starts in managing RMT, action is. For a player, that includes not to buy gil, not to MPK anyone (regardless of reason), etc.

Alot of hatred against RMT is because how they make their money. In Cerberus, there are NMs that are rarely farmed except RMT. Certain groups just monopolizes (RMT or not) certain NMs. There is alleged botting and MPK. But in a lot of cases, there are no alleged botting, MPK or whatever precieved evil methods, it is because there is little competition. In some ways, RMT actually increased the supply of NM drops and actually keeps the price of items in check.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#159 Jan 09 2006 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default
504 posts
Good read. ::rate up::
#160 Jan 10 2006 at 12:47 AM Rating: Default
38 posts
Bad Necroposter!

(but it is a good read)
#161 Jan 10 2006 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
Wow.. very interesting story here ^^
I, myself never bought a gil or sold a gil...

After reading this stories of gil seller @ allakazham..
All I could think of was... they are very poor... as in emotion feeling.

People might say gil seller ******* up the game.. prices or what not...
Could be true.. could be not... but I can assure you that it is not because of the only gil seller.

I, myself own pretty much have good of everything(in game).
I can't not say I'm rich in game... though I get whatever I want in matter of no time.(Probably except the kraken club,spped belt.. unless I sell some of my gears.. though I don't find them worth it)

Now.. what I want to prove is.. some people get around like me... and get whatever they want.. even though I don't have to buy any gil or sell gils.
I just simply dont like how people makes these(bad) statement towards... a PERSON over a game or an item.

This person(gil seller) could be you..
You just happened to living in good place. Borned in good place.
As they stated.. they dont like it much.. its too hard... dont get paid well...
I'm pretty sure this was their only option for them to make money.
Who decides right and wrong? You do... cause you(most of us) think different.
Since you lived in different world from the "gil sellers".
For you.. its wrong.. but for them.. Nothing is wrong.. because for THEM... its 1 of their job to earn money from the world they livinving in.
Yea.. its illegal... might be legal.. since SE not doing much about it.
But for them its not. Its 1 of their job.

People say its impossible to earn anything these days in FFXI...
I do admit that it is very hard.. or could be very hard.
But they are people who can afford stuff even without buying gil or not buying gil.
People simply have to blame on gil seller.

Why dont you play game like them... and see if you can get gil as much as them?
From my point of view... all I see is complain.
Does people really have to blame on a person... a person(gil sellers)? over a game just because you cant get what you want from the cyber item?
Do you find item worth that much? over a person's job.. who are not able to make living out of?
Do you wish them to die.. because they cant sell gils.. and cant afford themselves?
Is AH or Items really worries you?... I'm pretty sure you can find your enjoying time more with partying.. mission with friends.
Look around.... It only matter of time.. to get what you want.

I might be wrong.. cause I may not be in position of people who cant get what they want.
Though... I think its something we have to think about... what is more important.

P.S Excuse my 2nd langugage. ; ;

Edited, Tue Jan 10 07:07:57 2006 by Jaes
#162 Jan 10 2006 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
The way I see Vana Diel.. Coming from ... from what I understand.. The most inflated server -- Gilgamesh...

SE Nerfed LL, VE, And Argus.. Yet I still see campers there every time I pass by... They didn't resolve the problem they merely made this item less... desireable for a gil seller or a simple player...

You Have to understand that regardless of whether or not people buy and/or trade gil for real-world currency.. NMs, farmers, and anyone who wants to buy that new piece to go with their ensomble.. Will, infact, still be there..

This is a game.. I've seen a Dragoon named Longp farming in Passhow Marshlands every night since I started XI.. (About 1/2 a year ago) I don't understand why someone would need that much gil... however he is in a desolate area trying to earn his keep.

If you must have that Uber piece of crap for your character I suggest buying it... Earn your gil just like everyone else..

I hear people.. all the time ***** and moan about how a "GS" stole their mob.. How can you prove a person is a gilseller without first talking to them? Even if there weren't gilsellers it wouldn't mean that you can get every single NM..

I don't know why people don't understand this but...
--Just because a person is a gilseller doesn't mean they can instantly claim a monster.. It takes focus, practice, and probably THF/RNG to pull off the drop.. If a WHM is going to camp a NM.. they should quit while they're ahead.. level up Thief where you can flee atleast.. Get RNG for widescan.. and find your mob.

Gilsellers ARE infact people.. They have lives just like yours in which they goto work and make a small living.. I do admit it is frustrating being poor and IF I had the Ba**s I'd try to steal a few million from one of their "Secure" websites.

Complaining about the super ToS won't do anything.. You break the ToS every time you get pissed and swear at your whole linkshell cuz someone else "got the drop".

But.. I make pizza.. I don't sell gil.. I wouldn't be able to make enough to sell anyway.. lmao.. 59 Alchemy and I can bust out 200k in a few hours... it would take like a full 24 hr period to make 1 mil.

I said earlier tonight.. in my LS that if things don't change then our XBOX 360 n00b friends will quit simply because our economy is too inflated for them to get level 1 armor/weapons.. You want to blame gilsellers.. go ahead.. but I KNOW that people here in the USA are money hungry and looooove to jack up prices... they don't understand that it will eventually cost them FFXI entirely..

I guess I don't state my points clearly but my rant is over.. Feel free to rate down.. I rarely speak anyway... Theres nothing good to talk about until this...

EDIT: And In my personal opinion.. I have never seen a [GM] do anything to anyone that had actually done something Uber bad.. more like.. They're that Teacher that allways breaks up a fight instead of looking the other way.. I know you remember it from high school! I have made 3 or 4 GM calls in my day and not once have I seen results.. infact later the guy that caused an UBER MPK session in Garliage Citadel one day laughed at my efforts at having him reported and explained to me that he was very good friends with a few of them... Nothing happened to this guy and he killed about 15 people with his giant train of ..... everything (you know how everything links there)... But.. the NPC for the escourt quest died.. It was hillarious.. and now SE has nerfed zoned mobs to prevent this.. but somehow they have taken away that sense of adventure and danger.. the thing that actually makes you feel like this game could really happen.. Since when does an animal just dissapear? .. damnit I'm off topic now.. I'm done for the night..

Edited, Tue Jan 10 07:45:25 2006 by Laserous
#164 Jan 10 2006 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
imo i dont care if they are loosing their ******* jobs

they are a team of *******

go ban them all, and theyll get another ******* job
#165 Jun 20 2006 at 4:15 AM Rating: Default
Wow. This has actually been a really interesting thread, and while I know it is several years old, I don't really care. It's prompted me to say a few words.

Gilsellers: While their lives aren't exactly up to American standards, they're Communists. Basically, they won't starve to death. Their basic needs are taken care of at the cost of an honest job, be it working in sweatshops or selling cell phones. The reason people are so appauled at the thought of Chinese sweatshops is ignorance. They get food, shelter and medical. That twenty-five cents Chin-Mei got for making twelve baseballs today was extra cash for her to spend on what she wants. Extra food? Maybe, but consider her standard nutrition has been covered. A larger apartment? Again, maybe, but consider that she'll probably spend it on a phone or crappy little television. Luxury items. You're spending your extra cash on a luxury item like a game. True, they don't have the 'luxuries' we do, but once again, they won't die. If you're going to profit off the fun of others, at least play through the game honestly once to see what you're taking away from them.

Gilbuyers: To go into this, you have to consider why you started the game to begin with. Admit it. Narcissism. People love to be admired by other people, so what's a better medium than an online game where thousands of people will pass by your character and examine them daily? Gilbuyers are the exact same with the exception that they will (rather humorously) give anything beyond reason to look good. They'll shell out hundreds of dollars on a thirty dollar game just to be 'wearing' a certain item, ignoring the fact that the said item is nothing more than a digital picture. (You might as well have given your imaginary friend a fiver to buy a soda with. He at least cares about you.) The fact that this IS JUST A GAME and WILL EVENTUALLY PASS doesn't occur to them. All they care about is looking as good as possible as quickly. There's an old proverb, 'Haste makes Waste.' Look at the exp rings. You level quickly at the cost of certain skills because you didn't have the time to level them up, resulting in a weakened high level character. It's the exact same with gilbuying. You don't have the experience of hunting down that NM, of meeting people in the game that are willing to help you get that 500,000g airship pass for free along with Rank 5. You get there and strut while people think you're a moron for not knowing where to camp the O. Kote you're wearing. Worse still are account buyers. You didn't even get to choose your name, define who you were, just grabbed at the thing people were looking at and sauntered off without seeing the toilet paper stuck to your shoe. Create a character you want to be proud of, not for admiration's sake, but for your own. I haven't reached 75 on any job, but I could tell you how this one awesome paladin could hold hate on a mob while he was dc'ing and ended the battle alive, a feat that the next paladin in a higher level party couldn't do with normal connection. I could tell you that I know the exact range of certain bard spells to the point that I can properly cast on a poorly-spaced party. Most of all, I could tell you these things without needing admiration because I got satisfaction out of seeing my party benefit from them.

TruePlayers: You're the earners, the few, the proud, the brave and steadfast, and yet, you will thoughtlessly debase fellow players instead of help them out. You don't like it when people buy gil? Know a friend that did but just snapped at them for it? How about this...1.)Tell them to throw out the said gil. It'll boost the economy even a sliver and teaches the gilbuyer that it's worthless except in what people make it out to be. 2.) Take them with you to hunt down their 'real' equipment. 3.) Give them an LS and talk with them to teach them the real value of this game. Not gil. The players. If more people made the friendship and the stories behind the items meaningful, there would be no need for sellers. Hell. My favorite item in the game is a pebble. Not even a stack. One. A friend made it for me as a joke the first time I met him in a party, and we've been inseparable for over a year, now. If you doubt me, I'll give you my gil. Spend it all you want, but I don't doubt that the story you'll tell is, 'That wierd Hume chick just gave me her gil because I didn't believe her! What a wierdo!' Even something random like that is part of Vana'diel's unchartered adventures.

The Bleeding Hearts: For those of you that took the sides of the gilsellers, consider that they're not so dumb to reveal themselves that quickly. The TOS is in many languages, including Italian, Russian and Chinese. Chinese, as the written language, is universal to China since a certain emperor united the land. (Yes, a Terrantino film was accurate. *Gasp*) You can get DVD's with Chinese subtitles. You can see it on the freaking Bart train in San Francisco for crying out loud. There is no way they 'didn't understand the TOS agreement' because it's written out for them in their native language. Go figure. Do you honestly think someone poor MUST be of lesser intelligence? 'Cause I'm looking at some fairly compelling evidence that American education is falling behind China. Their textbooks are as thick as our phonebooks and thinner in the pages. If you sympathize with someone right away because they said this was a bad job and they were poor, it's because you were duped. Think about it. You're of the vein of people believing they can be the righteous, stand up for the little guy. What's more perfect than a poor, starving Chinese gilseller sitting all alone in his crappy little apartment with nothing but his computer (and aparently, a pot to ???? in) and twelve hours of time to play a video game when his friend can make a baseball for a quarter in less than five minutes? Yeah. I doubt this is their sole source of income. Also, consider the people in America that take up language studies on Mandarin and Cantonese. The church to spread the gospel, the Greenpeace, and the fat chick from Full House so that she can pose next to the starving babies and ask for more money from us selfish bastards. The gilsellers are classifying you as a Bleeding Heart to their cause as much as you are marking them as the poor, starving waifs. They understand, and furthermore, they can play the game, and I'm not talking about Final Fantasy.

So, why don't you just quit? Easy. It's a game. To invest so much emotional value into a set of pixels is ridiculous, even in hanging up the ol' controller. Invest, instead, on the people themselves behind the screen. The people that you talk to regularly, that you build relationships with and carry through rough times all in the name of good fun. Put away your wallets. You're not crippling some starving Chinese kid, you're just playing a video game. When you beat it, that'll be great, and there'll undoubtedly be friends alongside you cheering and smiling, but if you don't beat it, who cares? You'll have invested in something with a much greater payback. How many gilbuyers do you know have spent a night laughing about the sad drop rate of the relic sword with a few friends they've met? How many gilbuyers do you know will keep their account once they realize people aren't buying their wares? How many charity workers of Vana'diel are truly enjoying their work without proving a point? Don't play this game for anyone except yourself. Be it selfish ******* or fun-loving misfit, I don't care, as long as you're content, and nine out of ten times, you'll find contentment in others.
#166 Jun 20 2006 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
1,003 posts
So you brought this back to make generalizations?
#167 Jun 20 2006 at 4:53 AM Rating: Default
Yeah. More or less. Just pointing out that this is a game. How you play it with others and make a community is what counts, not how cool you look. Generalizations are easy tools to help further a point.
#169 Oct 27 2006 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
144 posts
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I guess i'm 2 years behind :P

That was a great post, and reminded me of some memories I had with gilsellers. They are often friendly if you don't act like an ***, and sometimes would even help you (believe it or not)! I have never reported them because I realized it's best to let them do their thing while I did mine.
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