You've heard of Manaburn: Have you heard of Speedkill?Follow

i see no real heal even with hate being thrown around one good eairly fight gobby bomb would whipe out a rng or too maybe the brd if he is close. Also zero raise possibility.

Eh? This is called "Fastkill" and i invented it last week or so.

Seriously, what the hell are you on about. 5 blm 1 brd works.
5 rng 1 brd works. Yeah, you'll find some other "unconventional" setups that work. It depends on the situation. Sometimes you can make it work.

But don't come here yelling "Look, look what i came up with!" and slap a dumb name on it. I would rate you down for being an idiot, but i really can't, so pretend you've been rated down.

Meh.

See Bedouit's post.

Slightly off topic, but this is actually a VERY common SC, mainly in Kirin fights. Using only ranged WSes is preferable, because most groups kite Kirin, so normal melee WSes are nearly impossible to land due to acc issues, and SA on a moving mob is impossible. Kirin (being earth based) is weak to wind, so a Blast Shot/Arrow > Sidewinder/Slug Shot = Fragmentation > Heavy Shot/Arching Arrow = Light for Aero(ga) bursts on both is the generally accepted way for dealing damage to Kirin.

On the topic of PLDs in Speedkill PTs.....it would definately take a vastly different setup from normal gear, but I think a PLD could function to a certain extent. I would see really two different ways a PLD could gear up.

PLD/WAR: PLD actually has a very high STR rating. Our damage tends to be lower, however, due to our low Attack and our tendency to wear DEF/VIT gear and use Defender, as well as our restriction to 1H Sword, a weapon type that typically has low DMG output. I don't have the link on-hand, but I remember seeing a log of a PLD in an EXP PT at 75 wearing full Dusk gear. With that much +haste and +attack gear, the PLD was easily doing as much damage as a THF, and still tanking at the same time. A speeskill PT would allow a PLD to use Berserk, allowing a PLD to increase output even more. A PLD/WAR could also carry traditional DEF/VIT gear with him, and if the situation need be, could bail out a PT member who accidentally pulls too much hate, via Cover or using Warcry/Rampart/Sentinel/Provoke to pull hate off.

PLD/NIN: This combo is all about speed and TP generation. With a few Dual Wield traits, and Sarashi/Suppanomi (Belt and Earring with Enhance "Dual Wield") if possible, a PLD with swords could dish out a very good amount of damage. With a Company Sword in main hand for its very high DMG, and a Joyeuse in offhand for TP generation, a PLD with damage dealing gear could probably do considerable amount of damage. Ability to pull hate off of other PT members may be a problem, but PLD also can function as a support class. We have Flash to help a member who is getting pummeled to evade a few hits, as well as cures to heal and possibly pull hate. Cover also offers a last ditch effort to rescue a dying PT member, to buy them time to get cured back up.

As an afterthought, PLD/WHM may also work considerably well, more as a support role than real damage power. PLD/WHM would have a decent MP pool, even as an Elvaan, altho I wouldn't be that sure about Galka. Divine Seal + Curaga would probably do a decent job of pulling hate, and a PLD meleeing will undoubtedly do more damage than a mage would, along with better accuracy and SC possiblities.

I doubt it; I've seen people using Speedkill for a long time. It was probably a MNK that came up with the idea, as they are perfectly suited to it.

I posted this in the hope that maybe it'll make someone think that maybe there are different possibilities than just fighting IT+++ for 200 XP and downtime; Manaburn & Arrowburn are one way (and a way that obviously works), but Speedkill is another that works just as well, with the right PT, the right gear, and the right target.

I'm not claiming "OMG n00b j00 are doing it wrnog!!!!11one", but I am pointing out that there's more than one way to skin a cat, alright?




Re: PLDs and GSword, Attack Gear etc: yes, that might be perfectly possible. One of the things about Speedkill is that the numbers don't have to be as extremely optimised towards a single aspect; more well rounded characters tend to do better (one of the reasons MNK, WAR, RDM and SAM do well in Speedkill), so simply relying on the PLDs natural defences and having them use attack gear would probably work well. Your main problem would likely be convincing a PLD to try it.

I don't know about PLD/NIN: the lack of Attack Bonus might be an issue (although less of an issue than it would be in IT+++ PTs), but PLDs themselves have enough defences already to make /NIN slightly - although not massively - redundant... Dual Wield and Swords over Great Sword and Berserk... Hmmmm

PLD/WHM is an interesting concept for a mainhealer in Speedkill, I honestly have no idea if that would work.

I'd like everyone to note that each and every poster who has mentioned playing and succeeding in this kind of a set-up has said what a blast this play style is. They have also mentioned which jobs and tactics are best suited for it, though it seems that any job really can more or less adjust to the style. I think the picture of what a speedkill PT is and does is really well formed in the thread. Which bring me to a few responses:



Read the posts from people who are understanding and responding to Litiani's OP: Lithiani, myself, Quor, xpostwonder, GreyHavens, AlphaJew, and several others who obviously understood but either disagreed or dismissed the tactic (usually by saying "tanks allow DD" or "great but it's not as good as all [insert job].") Then you'll understand what Litiani is "on about." Did you read the thread or just sorta skim the OP and selected reponses?



I re-read the OP to make sure, but Lithiani never claimed to have come up with this. He/she just made a well written exposition about it.



This gets closer to answering my question about whether PLD DMG is worthwhile (in your mind) simply for the DMG it casues, but HNM tactics are drastically different than a regular XP fight... Once again- do you think that a PLDs DMG is worthwhile (simply as DMG, not as a hate generator) in XP PTs?



I couldn't agree moe about people's general tendency to stretch and shade the truth on forums (PS- what are your job levels, what is you character name and which server are you on?). I actually made a thread about it awhile back (called "Lies and Prestige" if I remember correctly).

It seems to me your comment that "this doesn't work at high levels" is still full of the myopic view that the "high levels" are the only levels that exist. The fact that the only mono-job combos you mention are both end-game set-ups (despite the fact that mono-job setups clearly work at any level range) corroborates this. At this point, I tend to believe that speedkill (a different set-up than the mono-job PT) will work at any level range, you just have to set it up right (jobs, subs, equipment, hunting ground), especially considering that the level ranges for VT monsters actually DECREASE while the IT ranges increase, making for a wider range of VT targets.



The way a "speedkill" PT heals has been covered extensively.

Special attacks: Starting on a mob with nasty special attacks when the PT is running at 50-75% HP is one of the dangers of the "speedkill" group, however thanks to mobs' quick deaths and the often lower rating of a speedkill PTs targets (T and VT fights are more common, though IT is hardly avoided) this doesn't really make special attacks any more deadly than they are to a traditional PT, imo.

Raising: WHM is not entirely incompatible w/ speedkill- as I tried to point out in my first post (heck, WHM/WAR even finds a comfy place). And even excluding reraise items (scrolls or oils). RDMs 38+ or PLDs and /WHMs 50+ (BRD, SMN, BLM all great choices in a speedkill set-up) can all raise. You certainly don't have to sacrifice raise potential.

Edited, Sun Feb 13 23:16:39 2005 by Kiyokatsu

holly crap I missed this lol .. again please look at this video ..


http://www.uff-forums.com/renaissance/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=115


This quote is sooooo ... well.. funny... I wana use it in the video im makeing "exp chain 1-50" were you will see 3 mnks whm brd rdm go from exp chain 1 all the way up to 50 full vid no outtakes o.O .

how did you put it ? ... I don't think theres many, if any, combinations that out exp 3 MNKs WHM RDM and a BRD.



Edited, Sun Feb 13 22:18:26 2005 by Sydel

I know that I'm far from being "uber", high level, "l33t", or whatever you wish call it, but I still feel a little left out of the loop. What about us poor little white mages? There is very little room for us in this party. Now I know at almost all -60 level parties White mages are always around. Even when I'm making gil I get invites from across the world ever since I started parting. However, how can you just ignore those that countlessly saved your lives and raised you from the dead? How can you ignore the lifeblood of party? Maybe I'm just too poor and pitful to understand...

Interesting post...speedkill. must try that.

Wow, this thread got hit with some severe Thread Necromancy.



Anyhow, one of the facts I will mention is that when in Speedkill, the "meleeing gives the mob TP" factor is less important in and of itself.

Why do I say this? because the VT and IT- creatures you are fighting in Speedkill, being lower level comparitive to the PT members, do less damage and have less effect with their TP abilities. They are correspondingly weaker, so you can access additional damage from semi-melee PT members who are usually relegated to not meleeing.




Well, there's 2 things... firstly, Speedkill isn't "this is the only possible way to PT and everyone must conform"... it's an alternative, not a replacement. WHMs in normal play tend to be massively optimised towards their healing power over all else, and for the Maxikill IT+++ PTs, that's a good decision.

A WHM in Speedkill might be able to fight, and against certain targets (especially bones), nuke.

Speedkill PTs naturally advantage setups that offer versatility over total optimisation. Melees like MNK, SAM & WAR who are quite capable of taking some punishment, for example. Good Speedkill PT members are capable of holding their own simultaneously in a number of roles.

wow glad I stumble on this XD
I always call this mass-kill since you just kill so fast in so little time but speedkill or fastkill sounds good :)

I really wish more people would be open to do this I absolutely love this but unfortunately I have only done this once (and that was after the levels got “to high”) in the desert at lvl 35 on beetles.

As for the monk factor vs VT mobs. MNK dmg on VT mobs is just amazing and actually makes me feel I do my job.

As for WHM in a pt like this. Since hate is everywhere some healing must be done and a melee WHM vs VT can’t be that bad.

I myself would set up a pt like this.
MNK
SAM
SMN(not just for heals) or WHM
BRD
2X DD

anyhow its tough to set up a party like this cuz like been said before people want to see big numbers and cant add small numbers (hmm I head that in mnk forums before ^_^)

That in and of itself is a good point, but there is another method to this too.

I was doing this in Quicksand Caves, where as you may or may not know, Coffer Keys tend to drop like flies off the Antica in the coffer area. As the PT moved and killed, we got 9 Coffer Key drops and used 5 of them on Coffers we found. Because I know the locations of the Coffers in there (due to SAM AF), we ended up fighting our way from Coffer spawn to Coffer spawn, at roughly 8k average drop from a Coffer or the map.

Now 8k isn't utterly stunning, but equally it's not bad for something that turns up while you are gaining your XP. Kinda makes you wish Astrals were still in Castle Oztroja.

They already have this. It's VERY dependant on damage output and gear, and you might not even realize your in a speedkill party half of the time.

Basically if you getting 4000-5000xp xp an hour, 60+ you've got yourself a speedkill pt.

Problem with speedkill is at certain places you have to compete for xp mobs.

The viability of this tactic tends to be limited until the highest levels for quite a few reasons. Number of mobs, DD outfitting, linking, ability to produce large quantities of damage in instants and etc. In general, unless your party is destroying mobs at tremendous speeds, there's a likely chance you're not going to beat the parties that are fast-chaining higher XP mobs. It's great in concept but not so much in overall practicality.