1
Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Special Task ForceFollow

#77 Nov 06 2006 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Mistress of Gardening
Avatar
*****
14,661 posts
Jaquio wrote:
I can imagine sitting in my Mog House listening to the crackling fire.... smoking my medicinal moko grass, when all of a sudden (BOOM!!!) the door is kicked down, and I am forced on the floor as the Special Task Force raid my Mog House.


My Moogle will probably be a casualty, due to walking from the kitchen in his underwear with a turkey sandwich.

Oh....and watch the Uli camp...your RMT are there.


And you'll scream, "I'VE GOT A PRESCRIPTION FOR THAT!" when the agents are taking all your flower pots out.
____________________________
Yum-Yum Bento Box | Pikko Pots | Adventures in Bentomaking

Twitter


[ffxivsig]277809[/ffxivsig]
#78 Nov 06 2006 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,638 posts
I think I know a bit about how gil sellers work overall. I hope it will help some players understand the situation of combating gil-sellers and hopefully help SE get rit of them.

Ok, gil sellers come in 2 forms:

The 1st one being an intermediate dealer (like ebay) who will buy gil/equipments of other players who are perfectly legit but just want to earn some extra cash OR those who are quiting (and sell their accounts). Their primary dealing was with accounts and gil. So, at most they will have a few mules to store the 'bought' gil and to send them to buyers. Their business was flickering at best since the 'supply' of accounts and gil from servers are uneven; more than often they have to adjust their price rapidly. They don't have any bots or playing accounts so they were somewhat tolerable until the 2nd type of gil sellers came. Or rather you can say that the 1st form get beaten and evolved into the 2nd form.

The 2nd type is more like a farm. One person (or a group) buy a place with several computers - kinda like an Internet cafe. Then he employs people who are paid-to-play. They are pretty much from a low income area and the idea of pay-to-play is appealing. They play in shifts, just like people going to work in a factory. Playing is their job (making gil or powerleveling). Well, this form generates those code names and jerks and bot-alike players. I'm not sure if these guys actually use bots or not but I'm quite certain they are the type that appears 24/7 on all servers. The gil the 'farmers' earned will be send to a certain storage gil-mule.

A long time ago, their methods were inefficient and very rough. Overtime, people with a certain knowledge of the game and english started to join (because it's a growing business). The farmers upgraded from endless farmings to crafting, BCNM, parties, NM, HNM even areas like dynamis/limbus/sky..etc are slowly acquired. Pretty much anything party/LS/HNMLS do are copied. They are growing more and more sophisticated and become extremely efficient in getting gil. Perhaps even more than an average LS/HNMLS since they have lots of man-power at their disposal and no LS-drama and excellent communications since they are just a arm away from each other. With the addition of rare/ex gears to prevents trading, they equip themselves with just those rare/ex they found along when they do missions/bcnm/hnm... etc to improve their efficiency.


Methods that have been used to eliminate RMT, each of these method have it pros and cons:

Banning/Block IPs: This was used a long time ago to effectively filter out the unwanted zones. This is extremely good when the company only sell the game to a certain area with a specific game ID. If you get a game ID of US coming from an IP in Asia then it can smell trouble (like WOW). An effective KILL 'EM ALL method. Of course this only works when "imported" games are not supported/allowed or are very localized (WoW, Ragnarok Online). Slowly it get countered by the use of proxy servers. Many gil sellers bought their own proxy server to counter banning ips.


Limiting game features: This is what SE did for the delivery box, claiming, fishing...etc. In a way it effectively reduced the means and methods for botting, cheating and explotations. The delivery box slows down the 'trades' of gil sellers, forcing them to use the San D'Oria area (I think they use Jeuno to trade too) to trade. This means it's easier to observe the trade and ban them both. Claiming and fishing are anti-bot functions so there's nothing to be said much.

The major drawback of this method is reduced-functions of the game. Let's face it, if you limit certain functions of the game then you're taking out some of the fun of it. HNMLS leaders will now have big trouble distributing gil/gear. Before they can simply send the 'paychecks', now they have to meet each LS member personally to trade (not a fun thing to do if you have like 40+ people). Fishermen can no longer fish for extended period of time even if they want to.

Banning accounts: This is the most common methods and have proven to be the most effective method in getting the 'right' target. Primarily it was used to get rit of bots, bad players and evil demons. The gil sellers suffer a lot from this method since once an account is banned they not only lose the resource in that account but also the money spent. Legit players getting banned often wrote letters and complain until they have their account returned. Gil sellers didn't do it until they realized it is possible to do so.

This method has the greatest drawback is that the company needs to separate the normal players from the bots, bad and demons. More than often you will get some players doing crazy stuff and you can't just simply ban them. A particular fisherman happens to enjoy fishing a bit too much shouldn't be banned but he can be mistaken for a bot. A poor drg who's determined to get his lovely SH and went out farming at ONE spot for months can be mistaken for a gil seller. Obviously when you see a drg farming exclusively in the tower you're bound to believe that he's a gil seller but if you ask around you will find some people actually farmed there for a very very long time to earn gil. A particular player having a mule which is used to craft and sell shihei exclusively can also be mistaken for a crafting bot. Well, once you realized there are people making 500 stacks of insect balls to fund their main job then you will know not all crafters are bots (yeah, I crafted 1000 stacks of insect balls when I was low level to fund my ranger/woodworking).

Massive account banning: This method was uncommon until recently. This is because gil sellers were very very isolated. They did most of their gil-earning alone (farming, crafting.. etc). Until the emergent of the 2nd form of gil sellers, they started to work together. Obviously, since most MMO are aimed towards working together on BIG-BAD-BOSSES and earn big money/gear; They often make party/alliance work rewards to be much better than solo work. The 2nd type of gil sellers are doing just that. They are working together, taking advantage of the features/rewards for 'working together' to become more and more efficient at their trades. Of course, when you have a bunch of rats running around together you will want to throw a Firaga III. Game companies did just that. KABOOM! One massive attack to kill them all since they are all together anyway. There is no miss-firing here since normal players will play 'normally' in LSes that act 'normally'. Sometimes you get a stray shot of some people getting too close to gil sellers. Gil buyers and people who pay to have the gil sellers get them a certain item (notice the Black Belt items are now possible to be bought with real money). Well, they are baddies anyway so they deserve to suffer.

This is the best way to drive them out of business. If you ban multiple accounts then the gil sellers will not have enough money to recoup their losses. More than often they will suffer a large debt. Even if the ban is temporary, the lost of time if waiting for the return of the banned accounts is enough to force them to go out of business. Once they are out of business, returning accts to them wouldn't do them any good since they are out-of-business anyway (maybe for reselling to another gil seller?). Normal players do not suffer much more such activity since they will be more persistent and are willing to wait for their acct to be returned.

The greatest drawback of this method is like police work. Unless it's extremely obvious to spot (like having similar names) you will need to have a pretty good idea of how these gil sellers are working together. The reason they have a set of common names is for cataloging, naming and recognizing. If they use a generator or a list of names then they will not be easily spotted. To simply put, they are EXACTLY like a normal players. Kill several targets to earn better gear/money. Collecting rare/ex items and distribute to members. Pool all the loot and sell/craft on AH to make the best gil out of it. The only difference is how they use the gil. Normal LS will have a 'paycheck' for its member, some of the gil/items will be kept by the leader for LS purposes. The gil seller will get 'paychecks' in cash form and all the gil/loot will be send to a particular mule to wait and sell to other players. This means finding evidences for their crimes will actually require infiltration (police work!) and bugs (read chat logs). Now if the gil sellers are... communicating using voices then it would be near impossible to know which is which.
____________________________
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?117964
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?8953
War 75, Mnk 75, Whm 75, Rng 75, Bst 75, Blm 68, Thf 61, Nin 51
#79 Nov 06 2006 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,947 posts
First off. I vote that the Task Force get their own in-game models and that they get a huge hammer for their weapon.

Second: Hit them hard. If you have bought gil, sold gil, or cheated a perma bann will be issued.

3rd: Moogle pies for everyone.
____________________________
[ffxisig]145240[/ffxisig]
#80 Nov 06 2006 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
Has anyone else noticed that if the extra acronym of Unit (Special Task Force Unit) was added at the end, this would make them... STFU.

Thoughts?
#81 Nov 06 2006 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
24 posts
bout damn time...

SE is finaly taking charge...
____________________________
JOBS= 62DRG*MAIN*, 33WAR, 18SAM, 16NIN, 15BLU, 8MNK, 10THF, 8BLM, 4RDM, 9BST, 12WHM

"Dragoons are what make Vana 'Diel so sexy^^"
DRG AF= <{COMPLETE}>
Linkshell= Blacksheep
Chocobo- DarkLancer (Retired)
Chocobo- *Still In Egg Stage*
#82 Nov 06 2006 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
Guru
***
1,392 posts
Well, I just sent a comment via the PlayOnline site, but I guess I'll restate that I definitely appreciate this move. I look forward to seeing the results!
#83 Nov 06 2006 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,793 posts
First off, SE needs to develop it's own Windower, then hand out suspensions and bans for anyone caught using anything but full screen, or SE's Windower. It'll be easier to control what goes in and out of the program when SE has control of the program.

Secondly, short, random file checks at start-up, and during periodic intervals during the game. FFXI seems to be the only game I can find that doesn't use a file check system to detect illegal programs, or actually stays off people's computers entirely.

Third, scripting is really the gateway to a lot of AFK and automated play. Need to look for input coming into FFXI that doesn't match up to what a human can produce. Most noticeable would be abnormal typing speed. Noone can type /ja "Provoke" <t> in .2 seconds, but your common script program can. Bust you a bunch of chocobo diggers like that, just for one.

Lastly, please keep your eye on hot spots, and make your presences known by actually appearing. Put the fear of God in people that have something to be afraid of, by actually manifesting your avatars so everyone can see. Ullikummi camp, any Land King camp, HNM camps and etc. are all potential gathering points for not only the RMTs, but for cheating non-RMT players. Watch the approaches, too. Lot of people, RMT or not, will pos.exe or fleehack through places like Boyahda Tree to get to Dragon's Aery, thinking noone will see them as they run past.

I'm glad to finally see SE step in on this. I just hope the actions taken are aggressive enough to deter if not elimate RMT and cheating altogether.
____________________________
Come into the sand, and the dust, and the sky
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight

Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Quote:
This forum used to be all about "How can we overcome this?" Now it seems to be all about "How can someone else fix this for me?"

#84 Nov 06 2006 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
Tankor wrote:
One thing I don't understand - "We will be penalizing players who buy gil regularly and/or in large amounts"

Nail em all, don't just nail the big ones.

If you have the ability to discern which accounts are the bank/sellers, bust everyone who has any sort of transaction with them.

Don't stop short, iron fist! iron fist!


I agree completely. If its possible to catch anyone buying gil, they should be punished regardless of how much was purchased. Of course it may be difficult to track every single purchaser, but it would quickly get to the root of the problem if a large quantity of gil buyers were punished.

I'm very pleased by this announcement. I look forward to seeing more results.
____________________________
FFXIV: Luthien Tinuviel, Elezen Female, Balmug (And will re-roll on a new server in August)
FFXI: Luthian, Elvaan Female, Bismarck (originally Luthien on Seraph):
85RDM | 80WAR | 76DRG
lolgaxe+1 wrote:
I've always been of the opinion that Warrior was the Swiss Army Knife of Vana'diel.
#85 Nov 06 2006 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,539 posts
Warne wrote:
First off, SE needs to develop it's own Windower, then hand out suspensions and bans for anyone caught using anything but full screen, or SE's Windower. It'll be easier to control what goes in and out of the program when SE has control of the program.


I agree, as I've already posted.

Warne wrote:
Secondly, short, random file checks at start-up, and during periodic intervals during the game. FFXI seems to be the only game I can find that doesn't use a file check system to detect illegal programs, or actually stays off people's computers entirely.


I agree and would have no ptoblem with such a program on my computer (one that searches for known third party processes and dlls while FFXI is running) but often, many people who use these tools (i.e. the ones it is targeted at) will play the "spyware"/"privacy" card and there are all sorts of legal grey areas surrounding it.

Warne wrote:
Third, scripting is really the gateway to a lot of AFK and automated play. Need to look for input coming into FFXI that doesn't match up to what a human can produce. Most noticeable would be abnormal typing speed. Noone can type /ja "Provoke" <t> in .2 seconds, but your common script program can. Bust you a bunch of chocobo diggers like that, just for one.


Just search chatlogs for instances of "/echo console".

Warne wrote:
Lastly, please keep your eye on hot spots, and make your presences known by actually appearing. Put the fear of God in people that have something to be afraid of, by actually manifesting your avatars so everyone can see. Ullikummi camp, any Land King camp, HNM camps and etc. are all potential gathering points for not only the RMTs, but for cheating non-RMT players. Watch the approaches, too. Lot of people, RMT or not, will pos.exe or fleehack through places like Boyahda Tree to get to Dragon's Aery, thinking noone will see them as they run past.


I'd like to see a more active GM appearance in the game overall. I think it'd be more interesting if GMs were to actually pop in and /wave from time to time, but as I recall, didn't one of them supposedly lose his job over that very thing? Not sure what the -actual- story was.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#86 Nov 06 2006 at 8:26 PM Rating: Default
**
630 posts
wow. is this SE's version of "war on [insert item to wage war on here]"

to me this is a waste of resources by SE, period.

isntead of targeting RMTs and other stuff, why dont they improve game elements to eliminate the need of using RMTs and third party software. why do people buy RMT money? becayse they are either lazy, dont want to waste time doing repettive things, or they have the money to do so, all of which are acceptabe reasons to me.

you build a fence to keep the pets out, the bring a wire cutters with them. you make it an electric fence, they will earn how to jump it, so on so forth.

i no longer se RMT's as the biggest problem if at all in this game. the fact that from lv 30-60 on any given server there is only 5% or less of that level range is a huge problem to me. it makes leveling low level jobs unbearable and impossible. a problem which would warrant a drastic change in which exp is obtained to accomodate that change. its gotten to a point where everyone is either too high or too low and not enough in the middle.

addressing drop rate of variosu items in game, rare/ex items, dynamis raids, and other various things all of which SE could spend time improving instead of waging a futile war on a groups of people that have been alowed to grow beyond control.

this task force of theirs will prove to be as useful as an ant would be at lifting your new sofa.
#87 Nov 06 2006 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,313 posts
Rather than an announcement on the Playonline website about bannings how about we get a visual.


At an assigned time TFGM's appear - they point and a red announcment comes on:
You have been marked for elimination - resistance is futile - and then FLARE4 -
and the RMT goes away! BWHAHAHAHAHa


A nice show for all to see.

Would hope it makes all RMT's look over their shoulders with fear, and all regular players look around in anticipation. BOOM!

____________________________
Zeenna - DIABOLOS
Do you have the patience to wait till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving till the right action arises by itself?
Tao Te Ching
¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
DARE TO DREAM!!
#88 Nov 07 2006 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Just reading through and thinking, about how many people use windower in FFXi, I know that almost everyone in the mass of linkshells i have use it, and for the simple fact people like to have the otion of alt-tabbing. If Square-Enix put this into the game it would stop a mass of people from using windower.

Games like WoW and Everquest, EVE Online and Guild Wars all have no problems with such a smal meaninal thing. So why hasn't S-E kicked in yet?

Yes, I believe RMT accounts and botters/hax0rs should be banned, but for people who would like to multi-task their desktop, without the inconvinience of being stuck with-in one program, why should they get banned if S-E isn't providing them with that option. Sure people might say to me, "Well fish-botting" isn't an option either, but that doesn't make it right." No it doesn't...but fish botting affects AH prices and leaves legit fishers at a disadvantage. (eg. A high depreciation of fish prices has happened on Kujata over the past 3 months.) There is nothing wrong with being able to alt-tab, as it does not affect players inside the game. I also may have people say "Well if you can alt-tab you can look up information such as maps or recipes which you may not have obtained in the game." Thats true some people may use it for that, but whats stopping people who don't use windower from printing of this information and using it anyway?

lol I speak too much.
(And i know Mikhalia said alot of this but I wanted to add my 2 cents)

Byuu
(Kujata)

Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 12:32am PST by jsquara
#89 Nov 07 2006 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
*
50 posts
Quote:
warning or penalizing specific players who buy gil regularly and/or in large amounts.


That is my favorite part... **** you gilbuyers, show's over!!!
#90 Nov 07 2006 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
*
50 posts
Quote:
wow. is this SE's version of "war on [insert item to wage war on here]"

to me this is a waste of resources by SE, period.

isntead of targeting RMTs and other stuff, why dont they improve game elements to eliminate the need of using RMTs and third party software. why do people buy RMT money? becayse they are either lazy, dont want to waste time doing repettive things, or they have the money to do so, all of which are acceptabe reasons to me.

you build a fence to keep the pets out, the bring a wire cutters with them. you make it an electric fence, they will earn how to jump it, so on so forth.

i no longer se RMT's as the biggest problem if at all in this game. the fact that from lv 30-60 on any given server there is only 5% or less of that level range is a huge problem to me. it makes leveling low level jobs unbearable and impossible. a problem which would warrant a drastic change in which exp is obtained to accomodate that change. its gotten to a point where everyone is either too high or too low and not enough in the middle.

addressing drop rate of variosu items in game, rare/ex items, dynamis raids, and other various things all of which SE could spend time improving instead of waging a futile war on a groups of people that have been alowed to grow beyond control.

this task force of theirs will prove to be as useful as an ant would be at lifting your new sofa.


You are an idiot for going so far off topic while stating something as stupid as this. It really sounds like you are trying to justify gilbuying while crying about drop rates. If gilsellers weren't around pulling 7 billion gil out the system some of it would probably be in your pocket dumbass. If it's unbearable and impossible then quit, I wonder how people like you make it past the install and download time. I bet you leveled all DD jobs and not one tank job, and wonder why it's hard to find a party when tanking is too hard for you. It is amazing how many DD jobs you get to pick from when you level either advanced job designed for tanking. Sadly enough, the ant trying to pick up my sofa has a larger brain than you.


Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 1:24am PST by mrfriendlyII
#91 Nov 07 2006 at 12:57 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,361 posts
Celvantes wrote:
I for one hope the ban hammer hits as hard as it possibly can.

1) Ever RMT mule and active character - gone.
Vokebots
Fishbots
Minebots
Farmbots
AHbots (the people who never leave the AH)
Craftbots
Crews that take every good NM in the game
Crews that take all the decent farming spots in the game
Crews that do dynamis and take time away from legit LSes
Crews that monopolize levelling areas in order to replace banned characters
2) Everyone who has ever purchased gil more than once - gone.
3) Everyone who has ever sold gil they've made to RMT - gone.
4) Everyone who has bought gil once - 3 day suspension + loss of all gil and non rare/ex equipment.

If it turned out that half the playerbase was gone... I wouldn't care. Let the honest people actually enjoy the game for a change. I'd also say that a character status (like the ? in front of new player's name) should be forced upon gilbuyers for a minimum of 30 RL days when they get back from suspension.


Your parents never hugged you, did they?

Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 12:59am PST by miltonare
____________________________
FFXI: Lynnette (Phoenix) 75BRD 75THF
WoW: Tradition (Mal'ganis) 80 Shaman | Castiglo (Mal'ganis) 74 Warlock
Aion: Graeme (Zikel) Gladiator
#92 Nov 07 2006 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
20 posts
I personally use ps2 but even if I did have a pc, I wouldn't use even a windower. I think it ruins SE's intended game experience (Which I belive is quite good).

I've loved every step SE has taken against RMT and cheaters. It's been quite notably on atleast my server. And heck, FFXI would certainly not die if some botting ls' were broken up or anything of the like.
____________________________
No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
#93 Nov 07 2006 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,448 posts
I -could- write out a few paragraphs as to why we, PC-players should be allowed to alt-tab in and out of the game freely, but it's already been said numerous times. In order for this task force to go no holds-barred against detecting bots, hacks, and RMT, they're going to eventually detect that half if not more than half of the PC-player base already use it. Instead of killing half of your players accounts, make a legitimate window function for us. Please.

Ya know, I could care less if the RMT remain in the game. What I want to see gone are position/speed hacks, claimbots, and anything else that would otherwise 'break' the 'very mechanics of the game'. We as players will eventually sort things out like the economy ups and downs, along the way we do need help at times. I wont deny that. What we need help on the most, is with things that are out of our control like others cheating with the game's own inner-workings.

If RMT were a forest fire, that was massively out of control, you'd fight fire with fire. In some cases, this is what has led legit players to use cheating programs. It's time to do what Smokey says. Only YOU can prevent RMT hacking. Take them out, and the only ones left standing are the guilty cheaters(sticks of dy-no-mite! in da mud)
____________________________
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar
Free Company:Cactuar Corp<CCorp>
catwho wrote:
If you need a bard to get "good exp" in a merit party, you're the weakest link.
#94 Nov 07 2006 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
**
370 posts
It's all well and good to say look we are doing something. Kinda like George Bush saying he is gonna change his tactics after 2 years of turmoil in Iraq. You can't get rid of gil-sellers until you eliminate the need for them. If you level a meelee at lvl 59 you need a haubergeon otherwise you are considered gimp. Most people I know can't make 4 million gil so they just buy gil online. If you don't make a way for someone to obtain armor such as that other than buying it than gil-sellers will always be around.

























____________________________
Thaumaturge/Archer/Marauder
http://xivpads.viion.co.uk/?id=1847776
Moogle Inc linkshell
http://www.moogleinc.com
Stand in front of me fool...I am a Thaumaturge
#95 Nov 07 2006 at 4:52 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
831 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Quote:
I tried telling you people, it's not just the chinese, though people don't seem to like listening to common sense these days.


And exactly how do you find SE's announcement to be a confirmation of what you "tried telling people?" The websites are in Japan and NA, not the RMT who farm the gil.

Here's how it works. Young chinese adult gets hired to farm gil in a game, the gil is accumulated by numerous mules his employer sells the gil to a website in Japan and/or NA, (heres where it becomes conjecture) the gil is either transfered to a character owned by the Website, or remains with RMT employer and is given to gilbuyer directly from RMT mule.

The location of the website has absolutey nothing to do with where the RMT resides. Now not all RMT are chinese, but unfortunately, most of them are. This is not a racial slur against chinese, it is simply a fact that China is a country where the technology is available, and a cheap labor force is available.

On a seperate note, many people for quite some time (myself among them), have thought that a good way to attack RMT would be for SE to spend a few bucks buying gil, then banning those accounts associated with the gil transfer. Glad to see SE manage to finally figure out what the rest of us have known for 2 years.
____________________________
BANNED
#96 Nov 07 2006 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
*
50 posts
Well if SE's going to read this...

I think this is great news but I'm concerned how the banning of mass account holders will be carried out. My brother and myself share the same payment address and credit card details out of necessity, but we don't live under the same roof anymore and obviously, that means that if he uses third party tools, I'm not going to be able to stop him (plus I'm out working most of the time anyways).

Does it mean that people who play with others in the same family, specifically under the same credit card, are at risk of being banned if any one of the other family members breaks the rules? I think those of us with younger siblings who aren't that convinced of the risks of third party tools would like to know.
#97 Nov 07 2006 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
**
564 posts
- On the windowing issue, I don't think anything will have to be developed. From what I know, FFXI originaly had no problems with Alt-Tab. However, the first cheating programs were activated by starting FFXI, Alt-Tab to desktop, start cheat program, Alt-Tab back. SE decided to fight cheating and put in extra code to stop Alt-Tab. If cheating is remedied in other ways, Alt-Tab may be enabled again. In that case Windower would no longer be needed.
- I think there recently was a change to the ToS about allowing SE to use programs to detect cheats
- Some prefer a technical solution that simply stops some things being useful. I think that is what SE has been trying to do for some time. Most changes (like the fishing system and some items getting Rare/Ex versions) have had some effect, but couldn't end it. I think the developers that were fighting the fight this way have either gotten fed up with it, or they have recruited some allies to make it a war on two fronts.
- It's about time? The first ban for cheating that I remember was in februari 2005!
____________________________
When all you've got is a Hammer
Every Problem looks like a Nail
Michael Swain

Laten we een kont schoppen!
Superguppie's Chocobo Diary
Are you a grey mouse?
#98 Nov 07 2006 at 6:07 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
305 posts
Firstly, let me applaud SE for attempting to "do the right thing" with regards to those who do not respect the rules of the game. However, I do not think that the task force approach will be successful by itself.

The reasons people buy/sell gil are related to basic economic principles of supply and demand. The current Rules do not allow for the existence of a market where one clearly exists (the market for changing RL assets into virtual FFXI assets). So long as this situation exists, there will always be an incentive for people to cheat and SE will always be acting as policeman in one form or another. As they get more aggressive in their enforcement, they may inadvertently erode the player base to the point where running the game is no longer profitable (then we are all out of luck).

What I cannot understand is why SE refuses to tap into the RMT market in order to increase the profitability of the whole FFXI business. What SE REALLY needs to do to combat RMT is to enter the RMT business. If SE sold gil directly, they could put out all RMT (since all SE has to do to make gil is push a button). By pricing the external RMT out of the market, SE could recognize additional revenue for a marginal increase in costs. In fact, costs may actually be lower in the long run because enforcement investigations (which SE admits are time consuming) would be reduced.

SE would have to track the value of gil by server in real time (like RL currency markets) so that individual world participants could understand how their server's economy is changing as a result of gil selling.

I understand that initially, this will cause a huge amount of inflation, but SE can adjust the gil sinks in game (prices from NPC's, chocobo vendors, etc.) to compensate for the purchased gil and create a stable economy.

Kudos to SE for talking the talk, but I can't help but think this is really just a way to make us think they're trying to solve the problem. As someone earlier pointed out, all the RMT characters are making big bucks for SE and until SE finds a way to make more money by doing something else, then they have no financial incentive to remove RMT's.

SE get you duff in gear and open up shop in RMT. Quit letting others leech your property to make profits.

P.S. SE should also consider selling items directly for RL money. This would be harder to set up, but could be added to a gil-buying system. Obviously Ex items could not be bought so I'd expect some adjustment to items to make them Ex and anything new that is good will be Ex (and preferably obtainable through an instance).
____________________________
First Lieutenant Kaminat @ Kujata
Wings of Honor
BRD 75 (Mordant Rime)
BST 75 (Primal Rend)
WHM 75 (Mystic Boon)
PUP 75 (Stringing Pummel)
RDM 75 (Death Blossom)
SCH 75 (Omniscience)
COR 75 (Leaden Salute)
DNC 75 (Pyrrhic Kleos)
BLM 75 (Vidohunir)
BLU 75 (Expiacion)
Currently leveling: NIN/BST
Nyzul Isle - Floor 100 = Clear
Subs: SMN 56 NIN 37 WAR 37 DRK 37 RNG 37
DNC 37 SAM 37 THF 37
Fishing 96.2 - Woodworking 74.0
Cooking 60.0 - Alchemy 56.2 - Goldsmithing 36.4
#99 Nov 07 2006 at 6:11 AM Rating: Default


Thus begins the end of FFXI or hopefully just the gilbuying kiddies, and noobs!

Rock on SE, MMO Nazies.

____________________________

Love echos, without words...

Lebowski - Human Paladin "The DUDE, abides."



#100 Nov 07 2006 at 6:30 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
600 posts
Overdue step, makes me not quit for another couple months though just to see it.

Not exaggerating about Sozu room either, they're there with Serket Breaker and Roc Star titles, all 15 of them, AF and cheap gear, their THFs all already have the f*cking knife... Dia claimed the instant it appeared on radar, before Sozu even materialized in the room. RMT can rot, buyer and seller. So sick of this waste of life crap, I want to see the STF there today. Simurgh pretty disgusting too. And Behemoth. Haven't seen KA camp in ages, since Hacker started bot voking every day.

Also, Ulli camp is a huge waste of time generally; crummy exp compared to decos or toau or even lufaise meadows. Fighting Ulli after 2-?? hours of killing statues kind of makes up for it. Losing Ulli to a crew of RMT blms and plds can sort of ruin a whole evening for a whole LS.

If you want to find some major perpetrators too, check LoO camp and, especially, Lower Jeuno. Lower is a hotbed of RMT shouts lately, and little else.
____________________________
WoW - 66 Rogue | 346 Enchanting | 375 Skinning
16/0/41 | Cooking 363 | First Aid 375

ffxi: done
#101 Nov 07 2006 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
6,631 posts
Quote:
What I cannot understand is why SE refuses to tap into the RMT market in order to increase the profitability of the whole FFXI business. What SE REALLY needs to do to combat RMT is to enter the RMT business. If SE sold gil directly, they could put out all RMT (since all SE has to do to make gil is push a button). By pricing the external RMT out of the market, SE could recognize additional revenue for a marginal increase in costs. In fact, costs may actually be lower in the long run because enforcement investigations (which SE admits are time consuming) would be reduced.


I think it will be bad for SE to sell gil themselves in just the sense would SE just "print gil" to sell. The inflation from that would be FAR worse than having a 3rd party to do it -- at least the 3rd party obtains their gil by selling in game item for gil and serve as a middle man and returning that gil to the market.

If SE going legalize RMT, SE will have to be more like a offical middle man for the transcation between players. Otherwise game will be ruined.

I still strongly oppose RMT in a moral sense. First thing is... to defend the original intent of playing a MMORPG. If success in MMORPG is instant to people who are rich in RL and not based on effort and journey, it really ruins the fun not only for the people who skipped the effort part. Allowing other to buy success depereciate the preception of effort of people who actually worked for it. From the history of other SE game, the philosophy of instant success is just not in other SE games.

Secondly, even if SE sell gil themselves (as a medium man) it still doesn't change the harrassing tactics that people will use to obtain the gil to sell to SE.

Since SE cannot change the mindset among certain players (who think cheat and buying gil is reasonable because of whatever reasons), and we players do not enforce enough peer pressure against ToS violations (like HNM LSs will invite botters to get groud king claims, and LSs don't talk about gil buying to avoid confrontation among LS memebers), the really only choice left is to tough enforcement of the rules.
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)