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#153 Nov 08 2006 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
72 posts
If you don't want Norton to kick you out of the game without using a windower, disable the auto-update feature. Simple as that. :P

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#154 Nov 08 2006 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
305 posts
Several people have estutely pointed out that my suggestion (see page 2) for SE to sell gil directly would really mess up the economy. My suggestion is based on a long term view of the economy rather than the short term view (which tends to be most important to individuals).

Compare FFXI economies to the US economy. The Fed in the US makes changes to economic poilicy slowly because the consequences are high. In the real world, people live and die when prices of things necessary to live go through the roof. FFXI on the other hand has nothing to do with real life and imho should not be managed like a real world economy.

Similarly, in the real world it takes a long time for people to adjust to changes in the economy. The rise of new business models and companies doesn't happen quickly and the ramping of capacity to meet new market demands is also slow. In FFXI, the cycle time for these adjustments is very short. The sheer number and influence of the GS has proved that point for me.

The answer to the problem is not to manage FFXI like a real economy (i.e. make slow changes to manage short term risks) but instead to make the necessary changes immediately to effect the desired position in the long run.

The only real problem in running a game economy where a current 1 gil = 1mil in new gil is the cap on money. There is a theoretical point where the demand for gil (in terms of RL money) which will dictate the optimal supply of money in a game world. The faster that each world reaches this point, the sooner we achieve the stable long run economy.

Will this be painful in the short run? Without a doubt. Are prices going to go wonky for some time? You bet. But right now, we KNOW prices suck. I prefer to do something dramatic to really fix the problem long term (even if I have to suffer in the short term).

The only logisical problem could be the fact that each character can only hold so much gil. With an economy 10^6 orders of magnitude higher, this could become a problem that I don't have a good answer for.

As for GS camping items to get gil to sell back to SE, this will not be an issue as SE should NOT buy gil back from players. SE will limit the destruction of gil to legitimate in-game means. This is why they may need to adjust NPC prices in the long run so as to have the rate of money being made equal to the amount of money being destroyed.

Independent of these changes, it would be very nice if SE published inflation indices for each of the worlds. Without a transparent view of our world's economies it is tough to have detailed discussions about what changes to make.

Change is never easy, but I would prefer to take a big hit now in order to get to a viable system in the long term. Punishing people doesn't really address the fundamental demand for bought gil and only addresses supply as long as they can ban accounts faster than they are made (an expensive and time consuming process that is currently failing as evidenced by the RMT dominance of economies).

Keep up the good discussions and I hope SE is watching. There are a lot of good suggestions out there.
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#155 Nov 08 2006 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
6,631 posts
Even with economy deflated, I don't find purchasing power has really changed. You make less gil, and you spend less gil to buy the same thing. It does favor people who had hoarded gil, but isn't during the crazy inflation, it had favored people who had hold item, and take advantage of making big bucks out of it? So I find no reason to be worried about deflation. Everyone gets less number of gil, but your worth of gil not neccessary has changed.

De/Inflation should not be a worry for the STF or SE. The biggest worry is the upset of game balance caused by RMT (like Autumnstorm problem and fish/craft bots), and game balance issues caused by claim botting (DA FTW!).
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

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Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
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not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
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#156 Nov 08 2006 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
1,590 posts
senorcoconut wrote:
Add to that the fact that her drop rate is pretty horrible. At least, it has been for me.


The pathetic drop rates, or absurd pop times, are merely two of the factors that SE build into the game that drives some players to buy gil. Yes, they're lazy, but lazy is human nature, if the game makes camping these things such a PITA as it is then it's not surprising some people take the easy way out.
#157 Nov 08 2006 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
I am tired of NA funny people. You not understand that some people in world need make living too. I am China and I work hard on game to make money and sell.

You all think it funny that they stop me from feeding my child with special task force. I make 50 dollar us a day working 10 hours for food while sell gil. This makes me sad.
#158 Nov 08 2006 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
117 posts
To all those who support reasons for buying gil a Simple thought:

You would really use your own RL money...
Your hard earned money...
Money that keeps clothes on your back...
Puts food in your mouth...
and worst of all...That enables you to keep playing this game...

You would really spend YOUR RL money to go up a virtual eschelon in a video game? All I say Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... the most unheard of thing in life itself...sickening

You know its funny... As much as i hate gil sellers and how much they ruin the experience for the rest of us gamers, they are actually working to obtain a RL dollar, not spending that dollar made on virtual fantasies...

To SE:

I am very pleased to hear of these new actions being taken. While going after these outside companies is good, I hope we can see a better ingame presence of hand-ons GMs, cuz the system as it is pretty much is useless.
Remnants LS
#159 Nov 08 2006 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
1,970 posts
ChinLou isn't real RMT, chances are he wouldn't have time to read through 4 pages of this and then post about it. And if he did have the time (at home), he probably doesn't have a computer or internet access out in the middle of the untamed wilderness where his little thatched hut most likely is.

But still, whoever it is, funny as hell.

edit: Oh, and Chin, if you ARE RMT, then your days are numbered buddy. Better ready the mules and the shovels because it's back to real farming for you.

Edited, Nov 8th 2006 at 8:47am PST by Tavarde
Realm: Thrall
guild: The Aggro League (R.I.P.)
Èd, Night Elf Druid, lv 85, Feral DPS
#160 Nov 08 2006 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
f u focus on the biggest buyers first and punish them severly enough then the smaller buyers will get the point and stop buying so then SE can focus on other aspects of RMT and thrid party tools more, or it mite not work that way but hey we can always hope.
Woodworking 95
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Clothcraft 54
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#161 Nov 08 2006 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
474 posts
If SE really does read this for suggestions, heeere comes mine.

Ready for it?

Hope so.

Here it is.

Add a "Call Elite Ninja Special Task Force™" button right next to the "Call GM" button. Players would be happy because they can call someone who will listen to their RMT woes. GMs would be happy because they wouldn't have to put up with players whining about RMT they can't do anything about. And the Elite Ninja Special Task Force™ would be happy because players would be doing their work for them.

Think about it, man. Inward singing.
#162 Nov 08 2006 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
726 posts
As much as some people try to say it, SE cannot combat RMT by selling Gil to the players themselves.

As much as people like to think so, I don't believe that the Gil buyers are in the majority. The fact that SE holds the threating Ban Stick keeps a lot of people from actually buying Gil.

If SE starts selling it themselves, yes RMT will eventually be run out of business. However by doing so SE will then be killing the game themselves. The players who could buy Gil but were not for fear of being banned would then be jumping into the pool and the people buying Gil from RMT would instead be buying it from SE.

Since the amount of Gil you would then be able to have will only be limited to the amount of real money you are willing to spend, prices will be more out of control than they are now. Gil buyers will still be a minority group but unfortunately they will be the ones controlling the prices.

Since as last Christmas showed us, the player base cannot police itself. RMT knew they sold large amounts of Gil and so they bumped up the price on items knowing that the Gil was out there to support it. In the span of about a week prices on a lot of stuff was 4-6 times (or more) what it was the week before. Natural inflation just doesn't work that way. However, when people saw the prices shoot up on stuff due to the introduction of large quantities of bought Gil, they didn't say "hey I"m still going to sell my stuff for what it should be" did they? Nooooooooo. They kept upping the prices themselves at that point trying to see exactly how much they could get for themselves before it was all used up. That's why people were paying 20k for a stack of Shihei, 100+k for a stack of Sushi, 30+mil for a Scorp Harness/Hauby, and the list goes on.

The majority of the player community who refuse to buy Gil will eventually leave because there is absolutely no way to earn enough Gil through ingame methods that would counter what somebody could buy in 5 seconds. Crafting would not be able to counter it because the cost of Crafting would increase along with the cost of everything else. Eventually everything would cost 99,999,999 Gil but you would still only be getting 10,000 Gil for beating a Prime Avatar or 200 gil for a pair of Bat Wings.

Getting rid of RMT is the only way SE will be able to fix the problems they are causing. It isn't going to happen overnight. SE doesn't have infinite money and resources to be able to do that. However they can do it gradually.

The player community pretty much knows who the RMT are and where they are at. Some things that I can see the STF doing:
- Gather a list of what the players consider to be the biggest RMT camped NMs.
- Pick a couple of those NMs at random and then monitor the pop area during the window. If they can detect players using cheats what better time to watch for it than during NM spawns. I don't recall any times when Behemoth/KB didn't pop claimed since RMT started taking over.
- Gather a list of the players who end up using claim bots and other such cheats. RMT relies on this to make themselves profitable. RMT are not that good to be able to compete against legit LSs without it.
- Monitor those players to see who they interact with and what they are doing with them. For example, giving large amounts of Gil to somebody they never interacted with before would pretty much confirm them as a Gil seller.
- SE has the account record associated with that player which includes any mules/alternate characters they have created, the credit card the monthly fee is charged to every month, and any other accounts charged to that same credit card. They can then ban all the accounts and block that credit card from being used to purchase any replacement accounts.

Combat the Guild campers by giving the Guilds unlimited supplies. This will get rid of at least 75% of the people you see hanging out at the Guilds just before they open.

I'm sure there are a bunch of things that SE can do and is doing. Unfortunately none of them are things that will magically set things right overnight. It will just take time.
Viella - Elvaan
Server: Quetzalcoatl LS: Ruffians
#163 Nov 08 2006 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
43 posts
I use a PC. I do not use Windower because I do not want to be banned/suspended, however; I am sick and tired of dying due to fullscreen disconnects. Disable auto-update? Unlike PS2 and 360, my computer can get things called viruses. You know, those things that turn your $1000+ investment to mush. Sorry, but I will not be missing the latest virus protection update due to my obsession with FFXI. All I want is to be able to play the game without having to worry about disconnecting due to a fullscreen mishap. I do not care if I can alt-tab. I'm not looking for a way to check guides/maps. I do not want to know everyone's TP. Just allow me to play the game properly without jeopardizing the security of my computer. Please make it so that I will not be disconnected from something popping up in the background. That is all I ask.

Also, I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but I've heard the graphics were enhanced slightly for the 360 version. Is this true? If so, I'd love to play a graphically enhanced version. I understand if the PS2 can't handle it, but hey, my PC can; so let it!!
#164 Nov 08 2006 at 10:23 AM Rating: Default
4,400 posts
If you don't want Norton to kick you out of the game without using a windower, disable the auto-update feature. Simple as that. :P

Spoken like a true console fanboy who doesn't know sh*t about computers.

Unlike your lovely consoles (ps2/360) a computer can catch viruses simply by being connected to the internet. This is the reason why virus protection is so god damn important: Because you can easily catch a virus simply by doing nothing.

So, if you console fanboys are done throwing around your weak *** arguments, why don't we discuss how we can make the game better for everyone, not just you whiny little ******** It's bad enough the game can't be expanded to its full potential because of the lack of specs on the consoles that it would require.

Edited, Nov 8th 2006 at 10:26am PST by Erawyn
#165 Nov 08 2006 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
2,243 posts
Celvantes wrote:
I for one hope the ban hammer hits as hard as it possibly can.

1) Ever RMT mule and active character - gone.
AHbots (the people who never leave the AH)
Crews that take every good NM in the game
Crews that take all the decent farming spots in the game
Crews that do dynamis and take time away from legit LSes
Crews that monopolize levelling areas in order to replace banned characters
2) Everyone who has ever purchased gil more than once - gone.
3) Everyone who has ever sold gil they've made to RMT - gone.
4) Everyone who has bought gil once - 3 day suspension + loss of all gil and non rare/ex equipment.

If it turned out that half the playerbase was gone... I wouldn't care. Let the honest people actually enjoy the game for a change. I'd also say that a character status (like the ? in front of new player's name) should be forced upon gilbuyers for a minimum of 30 RL days when they get back from suspension.

Edited, Nov 6th 2006 at 1:41pm PST by Celvantes

I think that this sounds pretty much exactly on target. I would suggest that the ability to <alt><tab> on the PC should be restored after which I think that this policy would be just what the doctor ordered. While it is certainly possible that there would be an initial hit to server populations as a result of the bannings and people quiting who are just to lame to play without cheating I am confident that it would soon be made up by an influx of returning customers who left the game over just such issues.
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Adventuring Fellow - 70
#166 Nov 08 2006 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
5,903 posts
Why use Norton's at all? AVG is far superior.


1). Uses less RAM and CPU.
2). Does not pop messages up every damn time something little happens.
3). Asks you to update it once a week, AS SOON AS you log on, and not during gameplay.

I've been running AVG for nearly a year now, and I've no viruses, and it has never, ever, ever kicked me off of FFXI or any other game yet, whereas Norton's would every other week.

Dump Norton's. If you don't have a home LAN, AVG is FREE. Even if you buy the SoHo Edition, its like $12/year. Would you rather pay $30/year for Norton's?

On to the REAL topic, here are my thoughts to SE:

1). Please, please look into people who are online 24/7 and do the same thing over and over and over again. Look at http://ffxiah.com. Seriously. Look at Hollboyboyboy, Lovelove, etc.

2). Stick one of your Task Force guys at any major NM camp, as mentioned before. Sozu Rogberry, Ullikummi, Mee Deggi, anything that makes money, RMT camps it. Any craft that produces money easily, RMT destroys it.

3). Go through the 3 towns. On Fairy, there's a Fishbot named Chrisse. She is online 24/7 and does nothing but fish fish fish fish. Take a stop by the Fishing guild sometime, and watch how many times people throw Bastore Breams away becuase their item inventories are full, watch them do it over and over and over again. Go to Gusgen Mines sometime, and have a little chat with some of the miners there. They will tell you who the RMT miners are. Keep logs of who these people are, where they go. The RMT people are always /anon, usually Rank1, and are levelled barely high enough to avoid aggro in these areas and do nothing but mining.

4). Go back to your (H)NM camps and keep some logs of who claimed what over and over and over again. Note that the same names are there over and over and over again. Say the Lumons on Fairy. Lumona is always at Serket when he's due to pop. Fudi and his crew on Fairy are always at Amemet.

RMT are easy to spot, they play the game for one purpose and one purpose only: To Amass as much as possible. RMT never do things for just fun. You don't see them doing Missions/quests/etc unless they are absolute requirements for what they plan to do. The crafting bots never level, they craft craft craft nonstop and do nothing but.

Just take a look at some of these people, SE.

To the Playerbase of Allakhazam, I invite you to list your server, and suspected RMT on your server. I will start with Fairy's:

Chrisse (fishbot)
Hollboyboyboy (cooking bot)
Hyangyu (sp?) (Shihei bot, all she does is make Shihei 24/7.)
Fudi (Amemet crew)
Lumona (also Lumonb, etc) (Serket/etc crew)
Momomo (Choco Dig bot)
Bossboy (usually see him in Beadeaux and other NM camps, he used to camp Archer's before it became Rare/EX)

I'm sure some Fairy endgame LS people can fill in more.

As of 4-07-07
Server: Fairy
#167 Nov 08 2006 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
43 posts
Xylia wrote:
Why use Norton's at all? AVG is far superior.

I totally agree with you except that I DO use AVG and I still get kicked out on rare occurences. And it is those rare occurences that leave me dead when I should be moving on to the next mob.
#168 Nov 08 2006 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
8 posts
In theory it seems pretty simple. Just have the special task force start new accounts on all srvers. Then have them visit sites like IGE and IGXE and buy gil. when the little lvl 1 char delivers the gil ban his account. but don't just stop there. Ban the accounts that delivered gil to that account and Ban any subsequent account started with that person's/orginization's credit/debit card. By banning the actual sellers before too long you are shutting down the RMT sites from loss of capital and the ever present fear of a ban resulting from a sale. What then will all the gil farmers do with their gil? The police call this a sting operation and it works. Sting their asses hard!
#169 Nov 08 2006 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
726 posts
Yeah Norton is weak potatoes these days. There are alternatives to Norton that are just as good or better and don't try to take over your PC.

-AVG as the above poster mentioned.
-Trend Micro is also a good one and the one I use.

There are others as well but these are 2 of the more well known ones.

Besides, set your update to run everytime you start up your computer and you don't need to have auto update constantly running. Unless of course you stay logged in 24/7.
Viella - Elvaan
Server: Quetzalcoatl LS: Ruffians
#170 Nov 08 2006 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
43 posts
One more suggestion, then I have to get back to work :P

Setup a "Do Not Buy" list. We can /blist a person, so why not set it up so that we can choose not to buy items from someone over the auction house. A player suspects that someone is RMT; that player puts them on their "Do Not Buy" list!! The suspect would then be bypassed on any bids from that player. That way, those that really care about getting rid of RMT would be able to boycott them. Plus, RMT makes money by selling things over the AH so this would hurt RMT tremendously. Not to mention it could help stop the problem of RMT undercutting prices.

This idea came to me when I checked my name on FFXIAH and saw that I might had bought something via the AH from a RMT. I was pretty aggrevated.

Edited, Nov 8th 2006 at 11:24am PST by Pepei
#171 Nov 08 2006 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
150 posts
Until i see, AS A START, the 24/7 SKY rmt gone this is just another empty promise and worthless SE publicity stunt on this forum.

Edited, Nov 8th 2006 at 9:17pm PST by Elldorado
FENRIR-Start Over- Elldorado GALKA WHM & BRD ~MeR1tIN6~

#172 Nov 08 2006 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
3 posts
think thats funny look at this


now you can look on this site at seraph server and look at the whm tele spells and see that there is some program that allows dupping of items cause that is what is pissing me off and it seems like everybody in that server is doing it. i hope they crack down on those types of hacks expecially shejoog he has been selling teleport-mea spells like they drop like gil from gobs i mean seriously he dropped a spell that was about 500k when i put mine up to what it is now
#173 Nov 08 2006 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
4,400 posts

On Remora as well, and that's just Teleport-Mea.

Tel me how one guy can sell Teleport-Mea 16 times in the past week?
#174 Nov 08 2006 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
4,847 posts
That "item duping" is just getting a mule enough fame to do the quest itself, then walking it through the quest and selling the reward.

Personally, I'm using my mule for this right now, but only because I need another brown belt (hey, I quested it for money when I was first starting my mnk, when they were 200k on the AH and that was a lot of money and I needed the ACC rings. Don't give me that look.)
Geole de Caitsith Clothcraft: 90.6+6
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Dread Lörd Kaolian
Professor of Meat Sciences wrote:
Jinghles, allow me this opertunity to be somewhat blunt:
You suck.
#175 Nov 08 2006 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
The only thing that comes to mind is they create a mule, farm fame items and quest the scroll. then delete the mule and start over. But 16 times is quite excessive for that kind of work considering the ammount of fame required to quest the scroll.
#176 Nov 08 2006 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
3,350 posts
Three questions that I care about....

1. How will this "multiple accounts investigatory thing" affect couples and even families that play FFXI?

2. Once they get rid of the objectionary bots, etcetera, with their "objectionary bot specific destroying" gear... will they ever let us use the nifty programs such as Windower, Teamspeak and Video Capture?

3. Will the RMT/gil-buyer/gil-seller threads ever end!?!?!?!

...my kids call me Mary Poppins.

Cry me a river, build a bridge over it... jump in and drown. Smiley: grin

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