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Double Darkness/Light?Follow

#1 Aug 08 2011 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I've seen numerous threads about this but never quite answered my question.
Beside on how it's made, exactly how is it different from regular darkness? Does it do more then what regular darkness does?

I mean I do understand that it's technically a Level 4 Skillchain since it's made from Level 3 Skillchain properties. But does doing that do any different from normal Darkness?

Like
Evisceration <-> Pyrrhic Kleos
= Darkness

Rudra's Storm <-> Rudra's Storm
=Double Darkness (if this an example)



Does it make much of a difference (not taking into account of the WS themselves)
#2 Aug 08 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Last week in temenos I popped all my Sam ws boosting abilities and with the new Sam self sc ability I did 1.8k kasha > 2.5k light > 3.6k fudo > 7.7k light.

I just got my masamune the week before so I don't know the hard math, if there is any, but I nearly spit my drink all over my screen when I did that.
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#3 Aug 08 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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It acts like how any other Light/Darkness chain made out of more than 2 WS would act. Since a "double" Light/Darkness would have to be closed off of at least a 3rd chained WS, it's going to do at least 150% of the WS damage, assuming no resists or day/weather modifications or any other crap that would modify the SC damage.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Skillchain#Linked_Skillchains
#4 Aug 08 2011 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
It acts like how any other Light/Darkness chain made out of more than 2 WS would act. Since a "double" Light/Darkness would have to be closed off of at least a 3rd chained WS, it's going to do at least 150% of the WS damage, assuming no resists or day/weather modifications or any other crap that would modify the SC damage.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Skillchain#Linked_Skillchains


Hmmm do to say if I wanted to do it on DNC i'd have to be /sam?

How would that work on DNC if I where to try it? Since i highly doubt i'd notice I did it w/o realizing what it was lol
#5 Aug 08 2011 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Double_Darkness

Ffrom my understanding if you drop a 3K Rudras to close you will get a 3K Darkness before bonuses (like Skillchain Damage Bonus trait) or resistantces (like MDB or Resistance to darkness based elements)
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#6 Aug 08 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Default
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So would Rudra's Storm -> Rudra's Storm make Double Darkness?
Since its Darkness - > Distortion property
#7 Aug 08 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Darkzeru wrote:
I've seen numerous threads about this but never quite answered my question.
Beside on how it's made, exactly how is it different from regular darkness? Does it do more then what regular darkness does?

I mean I do understand that it's technically a Level 4 Skillchain since it's made from Level 3 Skillchain properties. But does doing that do any different from normal Darkness?

Like
Evisceration <-> Pyrrhic Kleos
= Darkness

Rudra's Storm <-> Rudra's Storm
=Double Darkness (if this an example)



Does it make much of a difference (not taking into account of the WS themselves)


In order to do double Darkness or Light, you either need an Empyrean Weaponskill (Walk of Echoes weapon or full Empyrean) or a Relic weapon possessing a relic weaponskill. In comparison to other weaponskills, these ones have either Light or Dark as their primary element. This allows them to continue a level 3 skillchain.

Under normal circumstances with non emp/relic weaponskills, once you make a level 3 (Light/Darkness), nothing else can be added on. In your case of Dancer, Evisceration <-> Pyrrhic Kleos will make Darkness and you cannot go any further with the skillchain unless you posses a relic or emp weaponskill that has Darkness as it's primary element. So in order to continue, you'd need to do:

Pyrrhic Kleos <-> Evisceration (Darkness) -> Rudra's Storm (Darkness)

The reason why people talk about Double Darkness is because with each skillchain, the damage increases up to a cap of 225% of the closing weaponskill damage. Since the above mentioned double darkness skillchain requires 3 steps, and is making darkness twice, the first Darkness will do 100% of the damage of Evisceration, and the second darkness will do 150% of the damage of Rudra's Storm.

When you do Rudra's Storm -> Rudra's Storm, you will only make Darkness, not double. The reason why this is important, is because only skillchains with Darkness/Light properties can skillchain with themselves. All other non empyrean/relic weaponskills are not able to do this.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 8:46am by ImmortalAlchemist
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#8 Aug 08 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh ok so unless i popped a wing I'd have to be /sam.

Thanks for clearing that up...

Although not all that important.....As far as .DAT go is there a difference between regular darkness and double?

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 11:55am by Darkzeru
#9 Aug 08 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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The only difference between Double and Single Darkness is that Single Darkness can be continued by a WS with the Darkness property, and Double cannot.

Darkness (property or skillchain) -> Darkness (property) = Double Darkness Skillchain
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#10 Aug 08 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Darkzeru wrote:
Oh ok so unless i popped a wing I'd have to be /sam.

Thanks for clearing that up...

Although not all that important.....As far as .DAT go is there a difference between regular darkness and double?

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 11:55am by Darkzeru


Double Darkness does not have it's own animation. It is simply a term we use to say that the skillchain of Darkness was continued to make another Darkness.
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Return1 argued with Mellowy and wrote:

Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#11 Aug 08 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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gotcha thanks
#12Byrthnoth, Posted: Aug 08 2011 at 10:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sorry, just read this:
#13 Aug 08 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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So basically:

Rudra's > Rudra's > Rudra's

Does NOT work, since the first pair of WS are in fact taking advantage of LV4 skillchain already.
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#14 Aug 08 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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Starcrossed wrote:
So basically:

Rudra's > Rudra's > Rudra's

Does NOT work, since the first pair of WS are in fact taking advantage of LV4 skillchain already.

This is correct.

From Wiki:

Quote:
All Weapon Skill Attributes can be used to create a Skillchain except Level 3 attributes from a Relic Weapons Weapon Skill (e.g. Scourge). These powerful Weapon Skills may be used to create a Level 3 Skillchain by immediately following a Level 3 Weapon Skill attribute (either from a Lv.2 created Skillchain or another Relic Weapon), however no further Skillchain may be created from the subsequent Skillchain.


It says Relic, but Empy weapon skills are similar.

Edit: Deleted Erroneus quote

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 1:33pm by OMGItsABear
#15 Aug 08 2011 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Byrthnoth wrote:
Sorry, just read this:
"ImmortalAlchemist" wrote:
When you do Rudra's Storm -> Rudra's Storm, you will only make Darkness, not double. The reason why this is important, is because only skillchains with Darkness/Light properties can skillchain with themselves. All other non empyrean/relic weaponskills are not able to do this.


This is not true. Rudra's -> Rudra's makes Double Darkness, because it's Darkness (property) -> Darkness (property) -> Double Darkness.

Evisceration -> Rudra's makes Darkness (skillchain), which can be continued by another Rudra's for Double Darkness


When we say "Double Darkness" it is meant to say that there are two skillchains that occur that produce Darkness back to back.
Rudra's Storm -> Rudra's Storm will create 1 skillchain (Darkness). Adding another Darkness aligned weaponskill will continue the chain and create another Darkness Skillchain.
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Return1 argued with Mellowy and wrote:

Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#16 Aug 08 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Nope, it won't.

Rudra's -> Rudra's (Darkness) cannot be continued by another Darkness skillchain property because it's already Double Darkness. We'd call that a "two-step Double Darkness," so its damage mirrors the closing weaponskill's (before resists and bonuses), but it cannot be continued by another Darkness property WS.

Edit: Like, remember at 75 when Amano SAMs would use Kasha -> Kaiten -> Kaiten? That's because Kaiten -> Kaiten -> Kaiten doesn't work.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 2:14pm by Byrthnoth
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#17 Aug 08 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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This screams for a YouTube video. Somebody make a YouTube video pretty please. I want to go: "Double Darkness omg. Double Darkness all the way. Double Darkness across the sky. Triple Darkness OMG."
#18 Aug 08 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Byrthnoth wrote:
Nope, it won't.

Rudra's -> Rudra's (Darkness) cannot be continued by another Darkness skillchain property because it's already Double Darkness. We'd call that a "two-step Double Darkness," so its damage mirrors the closing weaponskill's (before resists and bonuses), but it cannot be continued by another Darkness property WS.

Edit: Like, remember at 75 when Amano SAMs would use Kasha -> Kaiten -> Kaiten? That's because Kaiten -> Kaiten -> Kaiten doesn't work.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 2:14pm by Byrthnoth


I meant to say that on the last sentence that a darkness skillchain can be continued on by a skillchain that has darkness properties. You are correct that Rudra's Rudra's Stops, however as in my previous example PK -> Evisceration > Rudra's will produce two darkness skillchains one after the other.
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Return1 argued with Mellowy and wrote:

Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#19 Aug 08 2011 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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That's true, and Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Rudra's also makes two Darkness skillchains. That's because it's:
Evisceration -> Rudra's -> Single Darkness (Gravitation property -> Distortion property)
and then
Single Darkness -> Rudra's -> Double Darkness (Darkness skillchain -> Darkness property)

For Rudra's -> Rudra's, it's Darkness Property -> Darkness Property -> Double Darkness
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#20 Aug 08 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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This whole thread reeks of a game of Mornington Crescent, with people just making up terms on the fly.
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#21 Aug 08 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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With that being said as far as making two step darkness....which is better overall?
I guess which combination would ge tu higher numbers....I'd guess Rudra's Storm -> Rudra's Storm (if using TP dagger) but idk the math behind it
#22 Aug 08 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Erecia wrote:
This whole thread reeks of a game of Mornington Crescent, with people just making up terms on the fly.

Calvin: I scored a double darkness, so I get a point.
Hobbes: Well I scored a two-step double darkness, so you're at -2 and I get Z since everyone knows letters are better than numbers.
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#23 Aug 08 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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If you're making a two-step Darkness, it'll either be Rudra's -> Rudra's (when Rudra's > Evisceration) or Rudra's -> Evisceration (when Rudra's < Evisceration). There are situations when either is better. If Climactic is up, you'll want to do the first though.

In Salvage, I had my THF mule use Evisceration so I could do Rudra's -> Rudra's for two Darkness skillchains though, haha.
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#24 Aug 08 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I can believe Rudra's > Rudra's > Rudra's won't make two chains, because when I brew and spam Victory Smite or Ukko's Fury, only every other WS produces a skillchain; it doesn't go nochain > chain > chain > repeat.

That being said, I do think that we're using some confusing terminology here in this thread. "Double" Light/Darkness should only apply if two Light/Darkness chains actually happen with consecutive WS (obviously). If we want to distinguish between "Light/Darkness that can be followed by another Light/Darkness" and "Light/Darkness that cannot be followed by another Light/Darkness" we oughta use a different term for the latter one.

Maybe Final Light/Darkness? Since no matter what, there is no possible way to continue a skillchain after it.
#25 Aug 09 2011 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
That being said, I do think that we're using some confusing terminology here in this thread. "Double" Light/Darkness should only apply if two Light/Darkness chains actually happen with consecutive WS (obviously). If we want to distinguish between "Light/Darkness that can be followed by another Light/Darkness" and "Light/Darkness that cannot be followed by another Light/Darkness" we oughta use a different term for the latter one.

Maybe Final Light/Darkness? Since no matter what, there is no possible way to continue a skillchain after it.

Yea I think a couple people are using the same term for 2 different things, it's a bit confusing. I keep expecting someone to come in here and go "Woahhhhhhhhhhh double rainbow OMG!! Woahhhhhhhhhh"
#26 Aug 09 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Default
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no you are taking about the same thing, except one is a 3 step Dpuble Darkness and one is a two step double darkness. To be quite honest it depends really on what you are doing to which might apply as more useful. Either way closing the second with a CF rudra's is a sizeable chunk of damage. (granted rudras to rudras would be more.)
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