1
Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Playing FFXI the OLD WAY?Follow

#77 Feb 16 2017 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
But yet there is a server that is Pre-ToAU that has "a healthy population"?

Why wouldn't this "healthy population" of people simply do non-TP Burn?


Because the mobs you needed to make that work were in ToAU (colibri, imps).

Quote:
And if you had the choice, why wouldn't you do things the most efficient way? Is there something wrong with the most efficient way?


Of course, but I also included examples of jobs that were incapable of doing the most efficient thing just because of what they were.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#78 Feb 16 2017 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
But yet there is a server that is Pre-ToAU that has "a healthy population"?

Why wouldn't this "healthy population" of people simply do non-TP Burn?


Because the mobs you needed to make that work were in ToAU (colibri, imps).


You missed my meaning...

IF there was a "healthy population" of people who wanted non-TP Burn groups, enough to play on a Pre-ToAU server, then why not make a Post-ToAU server and simply don't do the TPBurn?
#79 Feb 16 2017 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
You missed my meaning...

IF there was a "healthy population" of people who wanted non-TP Burn groups, enough to play on a Pre-ToAU server, then why not make a Post-ToAU server and simply don't do the TPBurn?


Ok I re-read your original question and realized it didn't make any sense. This one's much better.

There were non-TP burn parties post-ToAU but they were rare.

Your hypothetical post-ToAU server where people are doing non-TP burn parties wasn't the subject here. But once again I'd expect people to go with the most efficient option which would be to do TP burn parties on such a server.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#80 Feb 17 2017 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
Prettier Than You
*****
12,975 posts
Lyrailis wrote:
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
But yet there is a server that is Pre-ToAU that has "a healthy population"?

Why wouldn't this "healthy population" of people simply do non-TP Burn?


Because the mobs you needed to make that work were in ToAU (colibri, imps).


You missed my meaning...

IF there was a "healthy population" of people who wanted non-TP Burn groups, enough to play on a Pre-ToAU server, then why not make a Post-ToAU server and simply don't do the TPBurn?

FFXI was always polarized anyway. In pre-ToAU on the server in question, BLM is much, MUCH more powerful than most of the other jobs in the game. I remember post-ToAU retail, WAR, SAM and NIN all got absurdly powerful due to the nature of mobs in the expansion being very poor for casters.

On the private server, ToAU is "enabled" but all of the mobs are set to level 99, so unless you plan on BLM burning them you really don't have access to anything in the zones except the unlockable jobs.

There was never a good balance in the game, which is whatever. No MMOs have a decent balance.

Edited, Feb 17th 2017 10:43am by Zackary
____________________________
Did you lose faith?
Yes, I lost faith in the powers that be.
But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
But I take responsibility for every single sin. ♪ ♫


Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#81 Feb 17 2017 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
No MMOs have a decent balance.


FFXIV's job balance is spectacular. And WoW does a non-terrible job at it too when you look at it objectively.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#82 Feb 17 2017 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Callinon wrote:
The chief complaint I remember about how ToAU changed the game was the rise of tp burn parties for exp/meriting.
By ToAU you meant Zilart, right? Right? Because that's when burn parties started to rise. By the time the last chapter of CoP was released those horribly stifling "traditional" (traditional to what, I have no idea) three mage one tank two specific melee parties were over.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#83 Feb 17 2017 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
No MMOs have a decent balance.


FFXIV's job balance is spectacular. And WoW does a non-terrible job at it too when you look at it objectively.


"Objectively"?

I saw a good bit of unbalance in WoW, too. In the end, DPS numbers are within 10% of each other, but some jobs had to do 10x work to get those DPS numbers compared to other jobs.

For example, the WoW Ret Paladin got to their max damage rather easily... compare that to a Rogue (or worse, Cat druid) who had to do 10 times amount of work to reach the same numbers. And that's to not even talk about survivability, of how a Ret Paladin can never die unless he bites off more than he can chew, but a few other classes like Mages had to stop and eat every so often (or did back in Warlords; I quit in March '15 and haven't played since).

As for FFXIV, yeah they seemed to have done a decent job at that. I recently came back from a year+ haitus and before said Hiatus, Thaumaturges and Black Mages were horribly OP because of the access they had to Physick and the fact they never run out of MP, allowing you to solo nearly anything as long as it doesn't do too much damage.

But, I came back and discovered they highly nerfed Physick when casted by said Mages, to the point where it is almost useless now.

On one hand, balance is good, but on the other hand, what's the point of a Cross-Class skill that is pretty much useless after Lv30?


Edited, Feb 17th 2017 2:10pm by Lyrailis
#84 Feb 17 2017 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
"Objectively"?

I saw a good bit of unbalance in WoW, too. In the end, DPS numbers are within 10% of each other, but some jobs had to do 10x work to get those DPS numbers compared to other jobs.


A 10% delta between the top and bottom sounds pretty good to me. As for amount of work that has to be done, with the numbers this close that's 100% the choice of the player.

Quote:
On one hand, balance is good, but on the other hand, what's the point of a Cross-Class skill that is pretty much useless after Lv30?


Yeah FFXIV's cross class system is pretty garbage. But they're re-vamping it for Stormblood so we'll see what they do there.

Quote:
By ToAU you meant Zilart, right? Right? Because that's when burn parties started to rise. By the time the last chapter of CoP was released those horribly stifling "traditional" (traditional to what, I have no idea) three mage one tank two specific melee parties were over.


I never played pre-CoP FFXI and I had no trouble getting into parties as a BLM main to magic burst on Distortion (because nobody knew how to make anything else apparently). Once ToAU landed that came to a screeching halt.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#85 Feb 17 2017 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
"Objectively"?

I saw a good bit of unbalance in WoW, too. In the end, DPS numbers are within 10% of each other, but some jobs had to do 10x work to get those DPS numbers compared to other jobs.


A 10% delta between the top and bottom sounds pretty good to me. As for amount of work that has to be done, with the numbers this close that's 100% the choice of the player.


Except it forces the players to make their job/class decision on mechanics rather than aesthetics, AND the player is NOT likely to know that ahead of time upon starting their first character.

Let's say for example, you start WoW for the very first time and you enjoy the Stabby Stabby character type, or you think transforming into a fearsome tiger-type thing is awesome.

So you roll a Rogue or a Druid.

Then you get to Endgame and discover that the skill floor of that class is 10x higher than, say, a Paladin's.

lol.

I think I'd feel pretty cheated if that happened to me.
#86 Feb 17 2017 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
Except it forces the players to make their job/class decision on mechanics rather than aesthetics, AND the player is NOT likely to know that ahead of time upon starting their first character.

Let's say for example, you start WoW for the very first time and you enjoy the Stabby Stabby character type, or you think transforming into a fearsome tiger-type thing is awesome.

So you roll a Rogue or a Druid.

Then you get to Endgame and discover that the skill floor of that class is 10x higher than, say, a Paladin's.

lol.

I think I'd feel pretty cheated if that happened to me.


My advice in that case would be to play what you want to play. Since the performance of each class is so close, you play what you enjoy. How is that not a player choice? Also fun fact, there are now class trials where you can try out a class at a high level to see how it feels. Almost like test driving the class before sinking a hundred hours into leveling it.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#87 Feb 17 2017 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
**
562 posts
Lyrailis wrote:
RenatusofTitan wrote:

The funny thing is, the best exp you will likely be able to get these days is on apex mobs in Adoulin zones. And how do those parties work? A tank (preferably pld) vokes a mob, two melee DDs beat on it and make an SC (preferably light or darkness) as quickly as possible, and then two or three nuke jobs magic burst off that to incinerate the mob. The final party member is generally a buffer with heal duties. So... yeah, very close to a 2004 exp party structure, just that your exp per kill is measured in the tens of thousands, instead of your exp per hour being measured in the thousands.


Edited, Feb 16th 2017 12:21pm by RenatusofTitan


How good do you need to be able to do Apex mobs?

By the point you get there, I'd imagine that XP is useless and you'd ONLY do it for the CAP.

I mean, I'm rather intro-to-endgame and I'm careening towards capping on Merits. Everything I touch gives me Merit Points left-and-right and soon I won't have anything left to spend them on (I don't have the potpourri goblin unlocked yet).

What I need badly, though, is CAP. I can do "meh" CAP on my own, but the idea of trying to grind out 2,100 JP that way is... eeew. It takes me the better part of an hour to get one JP so I imagine that JP is the new XP Levels, where you can get them solo, but it takes absolutely forever.


Apex mobs are, largely, just done for the CP. During the CP bonus events, you are looking at a full JP per kill, and probably well above 100 JP per hour. As a tank, you just have to be decent, and mainly aware of keeping the pulls going. Buffers don't require much other than respective skills being leveled. The nukers need to be fairly well equipped--abjuration, ambuscade and/or Reisenjima gear)--but mainly need to be able to reliably magic burst (you'd be surprised at some people...). The melee need to at least have some good acc, but they are more about making a skill chain than the damage they do getting there. Melee also need to be compatible for actually generating a SC, and attentive enough to do so.

My sch I almost exclusively CPed through apex mobs. My pld was about 50/50 solo vs. apex. My drg and blu were almost exclusively solo, and most of that in Reisenjima. My suggestion would be to get a CP bonus back piece. There is I believe a 25% one available through the AH, and Incursion coffers can yield up to a 50% bonus. Try to do Incursion during one of the coffer bonus events, which are also a good time to farm NM-grand coffers for T2 Reisenjima pops. Also, completing mission story lines often gives another 10% bonus for each mission set. I'd strongly suggest getting Rank 10 in multiple cities before focusing as much on JPs. And then of course, as you progress in each job, you get additional CP bonuses as gifts, so it gets faster as you go. And, of course, the increasingly rare EXP/CP events help greatly.
____________________________
Renatus (Titan)
"We are Dragoons, and to make short work of foppish cavalry is our bread and butter."
-Bob Shaftoe, The System of the World
#88 Feb 18 2017 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,158 posts
Slow to reply, but my earlier critiques on crafting were the "back in the day" basis, for the most part. When it came to consumable HQs, the drastic differences for some types were precisely what led to the lack of profit on NQing. And when it came to NQ durables, the lack of outlet for them also contributed to their general lack of profitability. Sure, an NQ Scorpion Harness was still useful, but no one ever actually used something like a Carapace Harness, either. That's more of what I was getting at with "useless" commentary. Meanwhile, synergy's attempt at enchantments (or even anima-style stuff) isn't what I was getting at, either. Rather, consumables that would outright improve stats on the item based on either what you used or some pre-set path. And while this exists somewhat through stuff like Skirmish gear and other things, the problem is the mix of RNG and the augment items not being crafted, but exclusively dropped.

Regardless, one of largest MMO peeves nowadays is the fact crafting is so secondary to direct drops. Far as I'm concerned, no mob should ever drop a completed piece of equipment. Put some NPCs with the utmost basic "white" items for given level ranges as a failsafe sure, but anything a crafter makes should outclass that. And that'd pretty much be step 1 of establishing a more living economy.
____________________________
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#89 Feb 18 2017 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
Callinon wrote:
My advice in that case would be to play what you want to play. Since the performance of each class is so close, you play what you enjoy. How is that not a player choice? Also fun fact, there are now class trials where you can try out a class at a high level to see how it feels. Almost like test driving the class before sinking a hundred hours into leveling it.


Because you have no way of knowing when first starting a character, what exactly that job's or class's gameplay entails.

What if you love the aesthetic of a druid, but yet at first you are presented with this Combo Point system and it seems rather reasonable, right? Well, yes at Lv20 it is very reasonable and simple.

Fast-forward to level 100+ and it gets out of this world ridiculous... how could you have possibly known ahead of time that you would have to manage two self-buffs and one enemy debuff, two of which require combo points, and it would be a ridiculously high skill floor and low tolerance for error/lag?

You couldn't have known that when first starting the character. So as you get up into the 80s you start seeing things you DON'T like about your class that you didn't know ahead of time... then you gotta stop and do a new character because you didn't like how that one turned out.

That's the point I was trying to make.
#90 Feb 18 2017 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
That's the point I was trying to make.


Yeah I understood that. But that's the natural progression of the character's kit. If MMO classes started out as complicated as they end up, very few people would ever make it past the introductory stage. Things have to start simple to ease you into playing the game, then later they get more complex. And actually not just MMOs, but basically every game works this way.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#91 Feb 18 2017 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
That's the point I was trying to make.


Yeah I understood that. But that's the natural progression of the character's kit. If MMO classes started out as complicated as they end up, very few people would ever make it past the introductory stage. Things have to start simple to ease you into playing the game, then later they get more complex. And actually not just MMOs, but basically every game works this way.


I get that part, but the problem with that, is that you've got Job A that barely gets any more complicated at all, and then you've got Job B that gets 10x more complicated... but you have no way of knowing which any given Job is at the beginning of the game, therefore, nothing to base your decision as to what you want on, which leads some players to getting burned when they find out that their job is too boring or too hectic/difficult.

Yes, I get that natural progression through MMOs are going to result in an increase of complexity... my point is... said complexity needs to be more balanced between the jobs, and WoW did a terrible job at this.

Yes, the raw DPS deltas are within 10%, but that's about the only thing that is balanced. Margin of Error, Complexity, APM, etc are far from balanced. Some jobs are a total snoozefest (Enhancement Shaman last time I checked) who have very slow GCDs and few abilities to choose from and other jobs are almost impossible to get a perfect rotation going for any amount of time (Rogue and Feral Druid again), because of how many procs/debuffs/buffs they have to weigh on every action.

And again, Margin of Error... you can make a mistake on say, Ret Paladin and still get reasonable DPS. DPS good enough that most groups (except for the highest end content) won't care. However, if you're doing a tiny thing wrong on a Feral Druid or a Rogue... your DPS is going to be 20% or more lower than it should be. That is NOT balanced whatsoever.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is far more to the picture than just Raw DPS. Blizz used to preach this all the time when players complained, but yet they don't practice what they preach.

Edited, Feb 18th 2017 4:03pm by Lyrailis
#92 Feb 18 2017 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
Yes, I get that natural progression through MMOs are going to result in an increase of complexity... my point is... said complexity needs to be more balanced between the jobs, and WoW did a terrible job at this.

Yes, the raw DPS deltas are within 10%, but that's about the only thing that is balanced. Margin of Error, Complexity, APM, etc are far from balanced. Some jobs are a total snoozefest (Enhancement Shaman last time I checked) who have very slow GCDs and few abilities to choose from and other jobs are almost impossible to get a perfect rotation going for any amount of time (Rogue and Feral Druid again), because of how many procs/debuffs/buffs they have to weigh on every action.


Ok I think I'm seeing what you're saying now, and you're right. The different jobs/class' playstyles place very different demands on the players that aren't super obvious when you pick the class up for the first time. But still none of it is sudden. Those kits grow slowly over time, giving you a chance to get used to each change as it happens so that by the end you're used to it and you're maybe adding one more button or one more proc and that's no problem because you've been doing it this whole time.

Also balance like you're describing would lead to VERY serious homogenization issues where the classes don't feel different from one another. If, for instance, a subtlety rogue played just like a feral druid, what would be the point of having two different classes there? Even FFXI with its more limited job kits separates the classes nicely so that no two really feel exactly the same. FFXIV skirts the edge there a little tightly but even they manage to make similar jobs feel different by varying the playstyles between them.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#93 Feb 18 2017 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
Quote:
Also balance like you're describing would lead to VERY serious homogenization issues where the classes don't feel different from one another. If, for instance, a subtlety rogue played just like a feral druid, what would be the point of having two different classes there? Even FFXI with its more limited job kits separates the classes nicely so that no two really feel exactly the same. FFXIV skirts the edge there a little tightly but even they manage to make similar jobs feel different by varying the playstyles between them.


I agree, on the points of the successes of FFXI and FFXIV in this aspect.

They did a good job with this. My point is that WoW did a terrible job. lol.

We don't want too much homogenization, but yet there are surely ways to make a class feel different without ramping up its difficulty through the roof (or making it so easy you fall asleep at the keyboard by comparison). Though FFXI... a lot of the melee jobs do indeed feel samey but then, FFXI is running on a 16+ year old engine so I give it a bit of mercy there.

XIV, I feel again, that the classes are rather balanced... though to be honest, I've not had a huge amount of experience between the jobs, but the experiences I do have I feel that there's enough there, but yet the challenge in playing the jobs is close enough, nowhere near WoW's level of gap, that's for sure.
#94 Feb 18 2017 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
I agree, on the points of the successes of FFXI and FFXIV in this aspect.

They did a good job with this. My point is that WoW did a terrible job. lol.

We don't want too much homogenization, but yet there are surely ways to make a class feel different without ramping up its difficulty through the roof (or making it so easy you fall asleep at the keyboard by comparison). Though FFXI... a lot of the melee jobs do indeed feel samey but then, FFXI is running on a 16+ year old engine so I give it a bit of mercy there.

XIV, I feel again, that the classes are rather balanced... though to be honest, I've not had a huge amount of experience between the jobs, but the experiences I do have I feel that there's enough there, but yet the challenge in playing the jobs is close enough, nowhere near WoW's level of gap, that's for sure.


Well FFXIV also has 13 jobs (soon to be 15) whereas WoW has what? 34? Each spec in WoW is practically its own class with its own playstyle branching off from a common base class (so a fury warrior and an arms warrior have a few things in common but they're very different to play).

That's a nightmare to juggle, and personally I think WoW's done a stellar job of making that particular nightmare work as well as it does. Is it perfect? No. Is anything? Perfect balance is one of those things that gamers wish for longingly on forums that doesn't really exist. Some games can get close, but there's a price for that (the aforementioned homogenization problem), and some games don't give a **** (hi2u early FFXI). You try to keep the player's options viable and competitive and it's SUPER hard to do. Perfect balance though is basically a unicorn.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#95 Feb 23 2017 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
216 posts
I've only just come back to FFXI after being away for 6-7 years, been playing FFXIV.

I'm kind of split on this, do I want to play the old way, not on your life it was too time consuming, getting through old content and some missions was a complete ball ache and even if you did have a great LS not many would be willing to spare the time to help you with specific content.

Saying that I do miss the comradery of the old days of FFXI, no other mmo made you appreciate the community that you were part of as you had to rely on it so heavily.

I do think the game as it is now has a decent balance perhaps leaning too far on the solo aspect of things perhaps, but gaming is very different now than in the days of when FFXI was first released, many of us are much older and have bigger responsibilities to be wasting time stuck in a levelling part or CoP fight for 4-5 hours.

Nostalgia is a funny thing, coming back I almost feel this is my final farewell to FFXI, no other game has built such a long lasting memory of content and also people I have met a long the way, that being said I hope there is plenty of life in the old dog yet.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2017 5:44pm by Diakar
____________________________
[ffxivsig]510035[/ffxivsig]
#96 Feb 24 2017 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,158 posts
There's a prevalent belief that a game being solo-friendly means friendships can't rise up or are perhaps forced to suffer.

The reality is that a lot of MMO endgame tends to force uneasy alliances, where the only way to progress after a point is to put up with people you really don't want to be around or tolerate game play that really isn't all that enjoyable. For those who don't want their entertainment to be marred by such, MMOs can be an embittering experience as one struggles to find a group where the personality clashes are minimal while the frustrations of play can at least be minimized by good company. Not everyone succeeds in this regard, and it's more of a thing in XI because it's not with the time on LFG tools and cross-realm functionality. And as I recently brought up in the XIV section, the $18 world transfer fee doesn't do the player any favors.

Generally speaking, those who aspire for solo-friendly just want to be able to log in and actually get something done. It's not that they don't want to play with others, but there's usually something about the process that complicates it. Using XI as an example, if you were someone that didn't want to play RDM as a main healer back in the day, you were going to have a hard time. People would use that preference against you, and even if they never actually played with you, the "reputation" of closed servers could be forged solely on hearsay. And while you might've had people who legitimately deserved ire, like those who ran off with LS banks, ninjalotted, and the like, the actions of a few bad apples do not legitimize hamstringing the ability of other players to get things done, particularly in a manner they find enjoyable, even if not in the coveted "most efficient" way.

Ultimately, things like this are a lesson XI learned much too late, and is perhaps why the WoW model took greater root in popularity than this or the Everquest type. However, even those games are stuck in the raid-centric model and the fear-mongering that raids would die if people didn't have to conform still exists. That tends to bring me to my ultimate point that if something is fun, then people will participate. If forced party play isn't fun, then something is wrong somewhere. And yes, how games are designed do influence our behavior, which could turn an otherwise pleasant person into a total buttmonkey when things take a turn. Stuff like lockouts and (steep) penalties for failure feed into that. Sadly, you'll have those who believe such things should also be present to encourage better play, when the reality is it likely doesn't and even discourages participation. So, yeah, we've got ourselves to blame in some ways, but no amount of personal tolerance or respect for others will change how things are coded.

Frankly, the RP element of MMOs has been lost. And I'm not talking about where you fit on the trinity with a given job/class. Rather, playing differently needs to be more valued, even if it occasionally means having strengths and weaknesses. And shining in those moments of weakness is what's going to make an encounter more memorable, be it a static party, guild group, server-only PUG, or cross-server match-up. None of the MMO Catch 22 crap. No more presumption someone's read a guide or watched a video. No more "skill-based rotations" that can mean performances are orders of magnitudes different from those who "get it" and those who don't. Some will groan at all this, sure. Some will resist the notion, absolutely. Yet, I'd posit it's all of this conformity that makes people seem so... disposable. And not because someone could do something on their own.
____________________________
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#97 Feb 24 2017 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
And of course, trying to GET a group is also very discouraging.

I remember the days Pre-Trust and Pre-GoV/FoV. That was the first time I quit, when I wanted to level jobs, but couldn't, because I would be LFG for hours and end up logging off with absolutely nothing getting done.

I remember the few times I tried to find a linkshell to actually take me, but nobody would because I was under-geared and didn't have the popular endgame jobs leveled and I had no social connections, so nothing was gonna get done that way either.

So I quit.

Came back after I heard about new solo-friendly stuff, played for a little while but it just wasn't good enough. Yes, the FoV/GoV stuff allowed leveling, but it was atrociously slow, because solo kills were still slow as balls. It took a week for me and the person I play with to get 1 level, using FoV and an Emperor Band, killing the few high-EP mobs that were actually possible (which took forever to do, too).

So we quit again not too long after that.

Then, some time later, I learned that Trusts were a thing and we subbed up again. This time, we stuck around a bit longer but we wound up quitting again because it was still a bit too slow to get anything done. And, we resubbed back in November, and now with Rhapsodies, the ability to get More trusts, the RoE objectives that give you decent starting gear, yadda yadda, things have really picked up and now we're enjoying the game.

Not because we're avoiding endgame groups... but because more stuff is actually accessible to us now. I'd love to join a linkshell that had actual people willing to help us get up to endgame junk... but sadly we're on Sylph which is not all that great population-wise. But then again even if we were on a more populated server, I wonder if half of our camps would be taken at any given time, so I dunno. Kinda tempted suggesting a move, but that gets expensive from what I've heard.

But either way, we still can't do endgame stuff, but at least the rest of the game is accessible. Though there will be a point in time where we will finish all the storylines, my jobs are already all Lv99, and we're working on Job Points on a couple main jobs right now... we'll probably eventually get bored of doing that too.

But until then... at least the game has some fun left in it for us.

And who knows, maybe some stroke of luck will happen, and I will find a decent linkshell willing to take a more casual player. One thing that right out turns me off on Endgame, though, is the insistence upon Equipment Swapping for every stupid thing in the game. Cast a spell? Gotta swap half of your equipment. Use a WS? Swap ALL the pieces! *sigh* I find it silly. I get why they do it, but I half blame SE for making the game like that, and half the players for insisting upon that 1% performance or what not. I won't be doing it, though. So that probably limits how many people that are willing to have me be in their groups.

Edited, Feb 24th 2017 10:42am by Lyrailis
#98 Feb 24 2017 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
**
562 posts
Lyrailis wrote:


And who knows, maybe some stroke of luck will happen, and I will find a decent linkshell willing to take a more casual player. One thing that right out turns me off on Endgame, though, is the insistence upon Equipment Swapping for every stupid thing in the game. Cast a spell? Gotta swap half of your equipment. Use a WS? Swap ALL the pieces! *sigh* I find it silly. I get why they do it, but I half blame SE for making the game like that, and half the players for insisting upon that 1% performance or what not. I won't be doing it, though. So that probably limits how many people that are willing to have me be in their groups.

Edited, Feb 24th 2017 10:42am by Lyrailis


Lyrailis,
While I largely agree with many of your sentiments , I do have to kind of take exception to what you said above. Gear swaps can play a huge part in effectiveness... not one percent, but often 100% or even an order of magnitude impact on performance. That said, FFXIs old macro system was horrible for doing anything like this. However, with the inclusion of /equipset and the mog wardrobes, it really does become quite simple and reasonable to integrate various gear sets into your play. So, not to bash you, or anyone else, but I'd strongly suggest playing around with the gear sets (under the macros sub-menu) to see how much easier that process is now; it's one of those QoL things that SE took far too long it implement.
____________________________
Renatus (Titan)
"We are Dragoons, and to make short work of foppish cavalry is our bread and butter."
-Bob Shaftoe, The System of the World
#99 Feb 24 2017 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
216 posts
Agreed it's not as bad as back in the day, still very time consuming to write out macros and make sure you have the correct gear in your mog wardrobe.

There are many QoL things SE didn't pick up on and it was mainly down to not having any community input, this all changed with ffxiv with the forums and later with the ffxi forum and is why the game has gone in this direction.

It's a real shame as many people are unaware of just how much 11 has changed and prob don't care enough to find out.

____________________________
[ffxivsig]510035[/ffxivsig]
#100 Feb 24 2017 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
***
3,441 posts
It's not the ease of doing so that bothers me, it's a combination of logistics and how silly the concept is.

I don't like the idea of carrying around 50+ pieces of equipment for a single job, when you can only wear ~15 at a time. ONE Mog Wardrobe is only 80 slots, and they expect you to pony up $4/mo to unlock Wardrobes #3 and #4.

I like the idea of being able to play multiple jobs, but that means carrying a huge ridonkulous amount of gear just to swap in for a couple seconds and swap it back out.

And yeah yeah yeah, ok, maybe I was exaggerating when I said 10%, but still.

And now we come to the "silly" part. So, I'm trying to imagine a battle, where you're fighting a warrior, and suddenly he sticks out his hand and goes "hey hold on, I gotta swap here." so the battle stops, he slips off his chest plate, pulls another one out of his back, puts it on, and then says "Ok, I'm ready!" and then uses a special attack and then goes "hey wait a sec, I gotta put the other one back on!"

I HATE using the word "Immersion", but if there was ever an immersion-breaking mechanic in a game, this would be it. I know they got Macro Sets now, I know /lockstyle will prevent the annoying blinking in and out and losing lock-on with your target, but I hate the idea at its core.

And yes yes yes, performance performance, sherformance. I just don't like doing it, lol. For RP reasons, for Immersion Reasons, and as a gameplay mechanic, I just feel that it was one of FFXI's biggest flaws, that thing they should have never gotten into.

It cheapens the value of a piece of armor in my eyes if I know that I will only wear it for 2 seconds out of every 30.
#101 Feb 24 2017 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
I just feel that it was one of FFXI's biggest flaws, that thing they should have never gotten into.


It really is. No matter what anyone may think of FFXI as a whole, the gear swapping thing is an absolutely ridiculous design point that should never have happened.

That all being said... it's part of the game and pretending it isn't there is just as silly.

Also I'm pretty sure I've heard that description for what the fight must actually look like before, but it never ceases to be hilarious. Smiley: lol

Edited, Feb 24th 2017 8:02pm by Callinon
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 47 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (47)