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#227 Mar 23 2016 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
PlayOnline music always brings the nostalgia Smiley: blush


Especially the 2001-2002 launcher music.


This one https://youtu.be/5ZkVv4pJqNc
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#228 Mar 23 2016 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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BrokenFox wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
PlayOnline music always brings the nostalgia Smiley: blush

Especially the 2001-2002 launcher music.

This one https://youtu.be/5ZkVv4pJqNc

I haven't played FFXI in almost six years and that still brought a huge smile to my face :)
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#229 Mar 24 2016 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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I'm thinking Hio is referencing this one.

Edited, Mar 24th 2016 3:08am by Seriha
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#230 Mar 24 2016 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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The scripts of the boss fights never bothered me much, it's the amount of buttons and cds I have to monitor that gets in the way of me enjoying myself. I don't understand why we need to use 30 abilities all of the time. I had it down pretty well in ARR, but the additions in HW just made me want to avoid combat altogether. I do fantastic in level 50 content with all my jobs, but after that I stop enjoying it. MCH and BRD are both really fun before the mid 50s. BLM is really fun before the 50s. Monk was too. After those 4 got their "new abilities" in HW, I pretty much just gave up on DPSing. I've forced myself to get used to it a couple of times in the past in between breaks from the game and parsed myself on the dummy to see if I was doing well, and I was, so it's not that I'm incapable of it. It just feels so clunky and awkward and .. unnecessary. It just gets to a point where I feel I spend way more time looking at my hotbar than just using my abilites off of my internal clock like I did in ARR and in every other MMO I've played. I spend most of my time fishing now outside of a few roulettes. Having that many abilities is fun, but having to use them all in every single encounter is not.

I'm sure people will just tell me to "get gud" or whatever it is that people say these days, but I really don't get why people would want so much to monitor and execute all the ******* time. It's such a draaag.

http://i.imgur.com/6XMaU17.png <- example of what a monk has to do ALL THE TIME. What on earth? How is that enjoyable to people? I can have plenty of fun with two 3 button rotations for a total of 6 damage abilities with maybe another 2 CDs and 1 or 2 situationals.

I just can't force myself.
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#231 Mar 24 2016 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
I'm thinking Hio is referencing this one.

Edited, Mar 24th 2016 3:08am by Seriha


Ah right. Pretty sure they used that in the PO ad where the players are online in FF8 Smiley: lol
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#232 Mar 24 2016 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/6XMaU17.png <- example of what a monk has to do ALL THE TIME. What on earth? How is that enjoyable to people? I can have plenty of fun with two 3 button rotations for a total of 6 damage abilities with maybe another 2 CDs and 1 or 2 situationals.

To be fair, 75% of that chart is talking about when to use CDs and stuff. The base rotation is definitely complicated, but it's not THAT complicated.

Generally I agree though. Many jobs are just way too complicated, especially with all the HW abilities. On DRG just my base rotation takes up almost an entire hotbar all by itself. I press 15-20 different buttons every fight. Even if I use no CDs (aside from the obligatory BotD) I'm still pressing at least 12 buttons. I've actually been spending most of my time SCH recently just because it's less of a hassle than keeping track of everything on DRG.

I'm not asking for a brain dead 1-2-3-repeat, 3 button rotation, but come on. What we have now is just insane.
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#233 Mar 24 2016 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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My #1 issue is people complained that FFXI/1.x is "too slow" and "old school" yet the battle system we have now is just as outdated (almost every developer including Blizzard ditched HEAVY GCD based battle systems in later revisions) so while yeah it would end up being too spammy, but this rotation based battle system is just...bleh. It's easy to maximize but it's also why the battles we have now including the "everything has to be a circular arena!" design is the way it is. That's why I kind of miss the 1.x combo system where it actually felt like combos since you had to set it up specific ways that could also include Battle Regimens or even Skillchains from XI in a sense, just something to make battles seem more like a group effort, since right now it's just more along the lines of "please don't stand in that green puddle and die and thus causing us all to wipe" team jump rope.

It's why I loved 1.0's original battle system with stamina and "tiers" - For example you can spam attacks if you want but if you let the bar fill to 2 bars you get higher accuracy then 3 bars enhanced crit rate and so on. Basically the slapped together battle system was more in depth. 4.0 is going to get even worse simply because you have a VERY vocal amount of people who'll cry foul if SE mimics any other MMO on the market or even come up with a better system.

As for monk..yes it actually is that complicated, especially in battles that require the boss to be moved around a lot (Sephirot phase 1 and Midas 1 Savage for example.)
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#234 Mar 24 2016 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Well, I'm sure us XI vets had our share of parties where maybe you waited 30+ minutes or so to get it together, spending 10-15m to get to camp, fight a mob or two, only for someone to have to go for whatever reason. From the logistics perspective, I get why such instancing/matchmaking systems are generous about getting people together as quickly as possible while minimizing the politics of group formation. It's what happens after that can definitely be the mixed bag.

Overall, I'd give XIV negative marks here on their server structure being so constricted. Other games let you hop to and communicate with other servers at will, or perhaps they're doing a smaller number of servers, but instead with channels to help distribute populations and avoid overcrowding. The concept of paying for world transfers is something that needs to die since it's part of what complicates someone finding their potential in-game "home" since they're no guarantee that next server would be the one. Some folks may have the tolerance for once or twice, but others just don't want to drop the bones on a gamble.

Nonetheless, one could argue that the whole concept of instancing came about as a direct result of congestion or even griefing. Unless it's a temp-RNG-spawned area, I don't think instancing combat-related locations people can't get to without an invite has done the genre the good it should've. Congestion tends to come about as a direct result of rarity, which powered the drama of XI's HNM scene. Loot got fought over. Mobs got stolen. People got MPKed. All because "power" was being arbitrarily balanced through rarity, both in respawns and drop percentages, instead of solely through effort. Respawn rates are pretty much interchangeable with lockout timers in the case of XIV.

But people sitting around in towns waiting for their queue to pop is also a symptom of other issues: the worlds themselves tend to be pointless. Why craft when dropped/token goods are better? Why care about lore when you're a glorified errand boy and the world changes not one iota relative to your efforts and those of others? Straight up PvP isn't my cup of tea, but I'd be more receptive to the possibility of raising NPC armies I could use to capture and hold lands, possibly allied with other players or even as enemies PC and NPC alike. The whole "You're the hero!" trope of most MMOs is holding back innovation in its own way. We need the shades of grey. We need to be the storytellers. No one server of the same game should be alike.

In our own ways, we like the power we find in these games. The first to not trivialize one for the sake of another just might be onto something big. Be the first to slay a dragon? Okay. How about the first blacksmith to create a one-of-a-kind legendary sword that players who come after would fight to get their hands on indefinitely? Neither effort is intrinsically a solo-only affair, but one should still be able to strive for either goal without all the internet toughguy ********* With some real freedom, I think we'd find who's more keen on helping, hindering, or just plain bootlicking.

I can't deny I may be more ambitious than current tech/knowledge would allow, though.


Excellent post.




Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Players want to press a button, endure a brief wait and then be whisked off to contentland. If they can't join a group for content with literally 0 commitment on their own part, said content is deemed 'inaccessible'.


There is a huge area between "zero commitment" and treating something like a part-time job. Most of us are in that area. MMOs, xiv included, don't cater well lately to that large group at endgame. To its credit, catering to this group is something FFXI did extremely well.


Edited, Mar 21st 2016 8:28am by Thayos


That is the problem FFXIV and FFXI are on extreme ends of the spectrum..
FFXI was a part time job and FFXIV has nothing unless you are into glamour. If FFXIV was more middle of the road people would be happy.
We left FFXI because yea it was a part time job, we wanted something a little easier.. What we got is a game that really has little challenge and hands you everything.
They built a great crafting system but mostly there is nothing to craft like Seriha said.
I wanted to craft my own battle gear and it would cost millions for materia to make a piece of gear that is not as good as tomes gear and only good for a couple of weeks, it is complete stupidity really.

They made the game really controllable with a great interface but for what to do nothing but dodge and do the same dps rotation over and over. There is no thought to playing dps anymore. This game just keeps throwing more and more dodge affects at you or now stuff that can not be dodged. All it does it make the healer have to heal more but actually can heal less since he has to more around more. There is no thought going into battles anymore.

FFXIV had so much potential and they are wasting it. It pisses me off because this game could be so awsum.
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Seriha wrote:
I know WoW's LFR gets a lot of flak, but that's also a demonstration of Blizzard realizing they can't just keep shoveling out content only the minority gets to see.

The problem with LFR exposes a much larger reaching problem within the community itself...

Players want to press a button, endure a brief wait and then be whisked off to contentland. If they can't join a group for content with literally 0 commitment on their own part, said content is deemed 'inaccessible'.

Old school players of games leading up to and including WoW always talk about 'vanilla' like it was the golden age, but it kinda was. That was a time when we were adventurers. Players these days don't want a gigantic new world to explore, at least not unless it comes with a cozy RV to drive them around so they can dress up and take pictures.


Flying mounts not rv's and I agree that is how it feels sometimes.


Hyrist wrote:
What we are witnessing is essentially the beginning death throes of the old MMO Era - where organized content is falling further and further into a minority, holding essentially the same rotating number of people in spite of the popularization of the medium.

.


I think we are seeing the death of mmo's people are going to eventually get bored of this.



I also do not think there are only gamers that only like stuff handed to them, I bet there are plenty of gamers who still like a challenging MMO if it were high quality, good game.
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#235 Mar 24 2016 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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That is the main problem too - Even if they came out with a high quality MMO with challenge, it won't attract the ones who are more likely to shell out the money because it requires more work than talk to NPC A and B and get handsomely rewarded. So once you've basically coddled a particular playstyle for so long and made so much money from it, you want to follow that design because you want that money. That's why Wildstar had a big misstep, because people did want a challenging MMO, but they took it too far.

That's why PSO2 is basically perfect in that regard. If it wasn't a blatant grind and had more of a content structure where you actually did content based on the planet you were on rather than from the hub station, it would be pretty much how a "modern" MMO should be, it has difficulty tiers, actual dynamic content even if it's the same mission you did before and the storyline pushes you through the content properly rather than making prior zones worthless once you finish the quests there.

Since the biggest markets are NA/EU, if you want to do business with them you basically have to design your game in the standards they've come to expect or you won't do business there or basically waste money. That's why Sega hasn't released PSO2 overseas yet, because they know that style of MMO won't last in NA/EU markets these days.
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#236 Mar 25 2016 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:


I'm not asking for a brain dead 1-2-3-repeat, 3 button rotation, but come on. What we have now is just insane.


I agree and I hate to bring up WoW, because people already complain that this game is too much like it, but even they've moved away from the 1,2,3,4 rotation style of play with most classes. It's actually a proc/priority system now that feels very fluid and interactive.

For example:
Let's say you have 4 standard rotation abilities, let's call them 1, 2, 3 , and 4 for simplicity. On top of that you have abilities that have a chance to proc when you use one of said abilities. So you're going through your rotation and every few seconds another ability "lights up" telling you "hey my potency is increased from a buff you got, use me now!"

I'll use ret paladin's priority as a standard:
Cast Divine Storm.
If Divine Storm is buffed by Final Verdict and you have an Empowered Divine Storm buff.
Cast Final Verdict (when you have 5 Holy Power).
Cast Execution Sentence.
Cast Hammer of Wrath on cooldown
It is only available when the target is below 35% health or when Avenging Wrath is active.
Cast Crusader Strike on cooldown (it generates Holy Power).
Cast Judgment on cooldown (it generates Holy Power).
Cast Exorcism on cooldown (it generates Holy Power).
Cast Final Verdict (when you have 3 Holy Power).

There are also a few damage buff CDs you can pop every 1-2 minutes, but everything else is situational. You only use it if you need to such as CC abilities or defensives/heals.

See what you have there is a priority system that pretty much always gives you something to use while having to consider what to use based on whatever factors are affecting you at that time, without needing to be a concert pianist to execute it. That said, if you just mash your abilities, you'll do terrible dps. The system is about paying attention and using the correct ability at the right time. It flows and doesn't feel clunky or frenetic like XIV's current 15 button rotations.

I'm not saying SE should do exactly this, but if they were going to copy WoW, i'd prefer they had copied it's current combat system and not the tired old one Blizzard threw away years ago.

Edited, Mar 25th 2016 2:09pm by Transmigration

Edited, Mar 25th 2016 2:10pm by Transmigration
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#237 Mar 25 2016 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been playing Black Desert and its basically the polar opposite of what XIV is. Open world. None linear questing. The combat system plays more like Dynasty Warriors with RPG elements.

Not a dig at XIV though, if anything it just makes me appreciate for what it is (a FF game with multiplayer features) rather than wishing it was something it wasn't.

Edited, Mar 25th 2016 3:11pm by BrokenFox
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#238 Mar 26 2016 at 1:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I tried BDO for about 4 days. I love the climbing and the sandboxy elements, but I really like game with tab targetting and a trinity system. I know, I'm old fashioned..
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#239 Mar 26 2016 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I like games with em too long as they don't have a homogenized feel so when I get an expansion or we're 7-12 updates in and they introduce new jobs, it actually feels and plays like a new job even if the basics are the same.

For example in XI, despite us having Ranger, when they introduced Corsair it wasn't just Ranger with different names for the same abilities. It actually brought something new to the table and despite sharing similar buffs to Bard, it still had it's own unique gameplay and buffs. Whereas say, in XIV BRD and MCH are the same job and WAR/DRK/PLD are the same jobs.

Edited, Mar 26th 2016 2:43am by Theonehio
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#240 Mar 27 2016 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
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The overload of one shot mechanics in 14's endgame is just getting old, man. Feels nice jumping into a fight relying purely on skill/reflex but still feeling challenged.
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#241 Mar 27 2016 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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BrokenFox wrote:
The overload of one shot mechanics in 14's endgame is just getting old, man. Feels nice jumping into a fight relying purely on skill/reflex but still feeling challenged.

I agree to a point, but it stops at normals. Once you try to progress beyond that the mechanics should be punishing. Since the progression is usually normal > hard > expert players should expect each higher tier content to be more difficult and less forgiving.
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#242 Mar 27 2016 at 1:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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The overload of one shot mechanics in 14's endgame is just getting old, man. Feels nice jumping into a fight relying purely on skill/reflex but still feeling challenged.


A big part of the fun was being in some kind of boss fight, and suddenly something goes wrong and crap starts hitting the fan. Bad groups just crumbled, but good groups found ways to fight through it and win. Those fights -- where it seemed all was lost, but against all odds you STILL get it done -- are what I remember most about XI.

And those fights just don't happen in XIV. By design, they can't. Something goes wrong, and... well, that's it. You wipe.

It's a different kind of accomplishment to run something so many times that everyone finally does the dance routine perfectly, but it's not nearly as natural or "real" as that feeling from winning big battles in XI.
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#243 Mar 27 2016 at 3:57 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
The overload of one shot mechanics in 14's endgame is just getting old, man. Feels nice jumping into a fight relying purely on skill/reflex but still feeling challenged.


A big part of the fun was being in some kind of boss fight, and suddenly something goes wrong and crap starts hitting the fan. Bad groups just crumbled, but good groups found ways to fight through it and win. Those fights -- where it seemed all was lost, but against all odds you STILL get it done -- are what I remember most about XI.


Yeah, those are the best kinds of fights, especially when half the team is dead and you still manage to come out on top haha.
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#244 Mar 27 2016 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
It's not like FFXI's endgame had so much real challenge. Mostly it was about having enough people and knowing what order to kill stuff in. Most fights had few or no mechanics beyond "stun and/or kite the 2hr." While I agree that some FFXIV bosses are just mechanics overload, at least the fights are more engaging than most FFXI's bosses.

The difficulty and engaging comparison could be argued. Engaging for me is having tools to counter or lessen the blow and a game to require me to use them at opportune times. Dodging could be engaging if it wasn't the dominant means, then it just becomes do I have the muscle reflex or not.

Theonehio wrote:
A lot of Kited fights were one strategy in a multi strategy game. XIV has no strategies. It has ONE way to do everything. Kiting was popular because it let you get risk free damage (and quite frankly, early on in XI 1/2 hand melee was tough to maximize) since you also didn't want to constantly have 6-18 people taking tons of damage, but once you had tanks who were able to take a proper hit, you didn't use a kite strategy unless they have insane attacks.

There were more dynamics in FFXI to contend with. You had to worry about dumb pulls,elemental & weapon resistances, sack pulls, opportune bar spells, skillchains,etc. The depth to that might be argued and one might argue and say that was ability bloat. But in my opinion, I am more engaged pushing less buttons overtime from a pool of 150 skills depending on the circumstance than pushing 3-20 from a pool of 50 skills more overtime regardless of the circumstance.

Transmigration wrote:
The scripts of the boss fights never bothered me much, it's the amount of buttons and cds I have to monitor that gets in the way of me enjoying myself. I don't understand why we need to use 30 abilities all of the time. I had it down pretty well in ARR, but the additions in HW just made me want to avoid combat altogether. I do fantastic in level 50 content with all my jobs, but after that I stop enjoying it. MCH and BRD are both really fun before the mid 50s. BLM is really fun before the 50s. Monk was too. After those 4 got their "new abilities" in HW, I pretty much just gave up on DPSing. I've forced myself to get used to it a couple of times in the past in between breaks from the game and parsed myself on the dummy to see if I was doing well, and I was, so it's not that I'm incapable of it. It just feels so clunky and awkward and .. unnecessary. It just gets to a point where I feel I spend way more time looking at my hotbar than just using my abilites off of my internal clock like I did in ARR and in every other MMO I've played. I spend most of my time fishing now outside of a few roulettes. Having that many abilities is fun, but having to use them all in every single encounter is not.

I'm sure people will just tell me to "get gud" or whatever it is that people say these days, but I really don't get why people would want so much to monitor and execute all the ******* time. It's such a draaag.

http://i.imgur.com/6XMaU17.png <- example of what a monk has to do ALL THE TIME. What on earth? How is that enjoyable to people? I can have plenty of fun with two 3 button rotations for a total of 6 damage abilities with maybe another 2 CDs and 1 or 2 situationals.

I just can't force myself
.
There is the issue for me. I want to focus on the action on the screen and not stare at my UI all day. If I enjoyed that I would do data entry in a cubical all day.And it's mainly because that exact execution is required for every fight. Fail at the execution? You fail, get gud.

Theonehio wrote:
It's why I loved 1.0's original battle system with stamina and "tiers" - For example you can spam attacks if you want but if you let the bar fill to 2 bars you get higher accuracy then 3 bars enhanced crit rate and so on. Basically the slapped together battle system was more in depth. 4.0 is going to get even worse simply because you have a VERY vocal amount of people who'll cry foul if SE mimics any other MMO on the market or even come up with a better system.

Are you talking about the alpha power gauge or the second iteration that had the stamina bars? I always wanted to try that alpha combat system more fleshed out.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42637-SquareEnix-Kickstarter-campaign-to-get-a-graphic-upgrade?p=512696&viewfull=1#post512696

What are these screenshots, real or fan art?

Edited, Mar 27th 2016 12:59pm by sandpark
#245 Mar 27 2016 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Fan made (he made some pretty funny videos back in the hayday.) And yeah I was talking about the Alpha power gauges that could have been fleshed out to be pretty awesome because it was already a cool idea for being just thrown together, if they actually put time into it that would have been pretty interesting.

That's why I generally compare to XI because even though XI is "easy" as some people said because of the ability to stun things, it wasn't as if you could just hit 75 on RDM/BLM and immediately start turning boss encounters into trivial matters. You had even the top players make 1 mistake and everything goes to hell. XIV does have too much in the way of instant wipes since the homogenized game design doesn't leave room for really..any kind of variance, at least not without complaints that "I should be allowed to get x too."

FilthMcNasty wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
The overload of one shot mechanics in 14's endgame is just getting old, man. Feels nice jumping into a fight relying purely on skill/reflex but still feeling challenged.

I agree to a point, but it stops at normals. Once you try to progress beyond that the mechanics should be punishing. Since the progression is usually normal > hard > expert players should expect each higher tier content to be more difficult and less forgiving.


Yeah I agree. With XIV they just rely too much on as the Japanese called it "team jump rope", even to the point touching a god damn wall will kill you. "Opps ran too far"...ok, so why should a wall kill me when the boss literally has 6 other ways to kill me instantly?

Recovering from a botched Dynamis Lord, Proto-Ultima, Kirin Nakuaal and so on was so much more satisfying than doing the Tango perfectly.



Edited, Mar 27th 2016 10:40am by Theonehio
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#246 Mar 27 2016 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
A big part of the fun was being in some kind of boss fight, and suddenly something goes wrong and crap starts hitting the fan. Bad groups just crumbled, but good groups found ways to fight through it and win. Those fights -- where it seemed all was lost, but against all odds you STILL get it done -- are what I remember most about XI.

And those fights just don't happen in XIV. By design, they can't. Something goes wrong, and... well, that's it. You wipe.

And the really sad part is that that sort of thing CAN happen in lower level content. Just not at endgame.

I once got got Titan normal in leveling roulette on PLD. Right after the heart both DPS died and the healer and I spent the next 10 minutes slowly bringing him the rest of the way down. That not only wouldn't, but couldn't happen in HM or EX, and it's sad.
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#247 Mar 27 2016 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
The overload of one shot mechanics in 14's endgame is just getting old, man. Feels nice jumping into a fight relying purely on skill/reflex but still feeling challenged.


A big part of the fun was being in some kind of boss fight, and suddenly something goes wrong and crap starts hitting the fan. Bad groups just crumbled, but good groups found ways to fight through it and win. Those fights -- where it seemed all was lost, but against all odds you STILL get it done -- are what I remember most about XI.


To be fair, 'good groups' are the ones that prevent the **** from hitting the fan in the first place. In normals you should be able to **** up and get away with it here and there. In harder content, especially considering it's so close to the content you saw in normals, these mechanics should be punishing.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#248 Mar 27 2016 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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Karlina wrote:
Thayos wrote:
A big part of the fun was being in some kind of boss fight, and suddenly something goes wrong and crap starts hitting the fan. Bad groups just crumbled, but good groups found ways to fight through it and win. Those fights -- where it seemed all was lost, but against all odds you STILL get it done -- are what I remember most about XI.

And those fights just don't happen in XIV. By design, they can't. Something goes wrong, and... well, that's it. You wipe.

And the really sad part is that that sort of thing CAN happen in lower level content. Just not at endgame.

I once got got Titan normal in leveling roulette on PLD. Right after the heart both DPS died and the healer and I spent the next 10 minutes slowly bringing him the rest of the way down. That not only wouldn't, but couldn't happen in HM or EX, and it's sad.


Mostly due to the way the game's progression works. You wouldn't have be able to duo down Titan HM as PLD and WHM back when it was new content simply because the 7-8+ stomps would have ended your healer due to the fact they'd have ~2.4-3.5k HP. These days it's possible because you're likely 117+ ilvls over the content and even sync'd you retain more stats these days than you had in 2013.

In end-game very rarely can you have situations like that because they "balance" fights around 6 people (since supposedly they don't take healers into consideration beyond basic healing) so if you start getting mechanics that rely on a full or near full party and you're under that threshold, there's no recovery. For example Turn 9 Fire/Ice/Lightning during Bahamut's Favor, it needs 8 players to be done properly, 5 if you do some elegant dancing with the Fire and Ice order but if you duo it or trio it, you have someone who will get both fire/ice and lightning, thus making it borderline impossible to do, even unsynced. So sadly, endgame challenge in this game is largely revolving around how fast and hard they can wipe you if you make 1 mistake.
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#249 Mar 27 2016 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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Still like FFXI's tactics more. Fight has random possbilities but given enough reaction you can recover from most anything. There are times where you are just plain unlucky and times that you are so luckly it goes smoother than usual.

Once FFXI's difficulty got to one-hit mechanics though, and forced people to stay away from all melee whatsoever, that's where I think FFXI's design failed, and FFXIV's succeeds. At least FFXIV's is evadable or has circumstances in which you prevent the damage. I'd prefer that sort of one-shot mechanic or 'frantic' mechanic in FFXI to both be gone and replaced with something stable. One shots should be few and far between. And fights should be designed in which all classes can do what they're designed to.

'Difficult' just means people will find the easiest way out and do nothing else.
#250 Mar 28 2016 at 1:59 AM Rating: Decent
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As is too frequent with persistent online games, difficulty tends to subside the more time you can put into it. This manifests directly in people playing a lot often saying a game is (too) easy, while those who don't will not, for reasons legitimate or not. Finding the middle ground is important, but representation is way too lopsided toward those who have more time to throw at their given game. In consequence, the vocal minority's opinion gets confused as the majority and the usual battery of personal attacks begins to fly when someone questions that.

Mechanically, I want to say I favor XI's pacing because it's not nearly as twitchy as your usual WASD+Mouse-centric MMO. Of course, it still had its share of useless abilities and glaring job imbalances that could've been fixed but never were. <insert RDM melee here> Like Hyrist, XI started losing appeal for me when content started erring into one-shot territory with Voidwatch and Legion, but I'm also going to extend that discontent to "changing" the game from where one could a fair amount done in smaller groups back into alliance play. Some are ever keen to argue that people will do what's easier, in this case, not needing as many bodies. However, I will continue to assert that it helped find who was friend, foe, or just your average hanger-on. I see no shame in shells crumbling during such a transition, as it's a direct manifestation of people being tired of the old school MMO politics and not simply just being lazy.

I have no interest in reading how XIV is all style and no substance, so if someone wants to try and cram that down my throat (again), don't bother. Those who want to argue XIV is just a fantasy dress up simulator are equally in their own little world. This is simply an awkward time in gaming where people think online means you absolutely have to play and get along with everyone because it's online so it makes sense to or it's more about competition. The reality is even a solo player can be an influence in these worlds, no matter how seemingly insignificant it might seem to someone else. The more we both force grouping, but in large-scale, the more we're going to continue to alienate people. And of course, the minorities will kick, scream, and flail when they don't feel like they're being pandered to, but ****, how many decades do we have to go of essentially having the same game with different coats of paint? I'm ready for change. Been ready for years, really. It's cool to see some others finally getting on board, too. Sadly, it's probably too late for XIV in that regard, nevermind XI.
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#251 Mar 28 2016 at 7:14 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
Those who want to argue XIV is just a fantasy dress up simulator are equally in their own little world.


You literally only have to go to the official forums to see that the biggest concern to the general playerbase isn't "Please fix this game's content!" but "Why do the Japanese get exclusive Maid/Butler Glamour" or "Glamour Glamour Glamour!" so it's not like there's zero basis whenever something like that gets argued because anytime glamour or exclusives (something every game and every region does or have done) gets involved, THAT gets the most discussion and whenever you bring up this game's content, you tend to get attacked and/or banned/your topic deleted pretty quickly.

Quote:
Mechanically, I want to say I favor XI's pacing because it's not nearly as twitchy as your usual WASD+Mouse-centric MMO. Of course, it still had its share of useless abilities and glaring job imbalances that could've been fixed but never were. <insert RDM melee here>


This is the weird part though. There's always been "one shot" mechanics, but they were able to be mitigated or there's a very specific mechanic to get around it. RDM melee I won't touch because it's still kind of hilarious people think RDM should melee when the majority of the argument technically favors BRD and WHM meleeing too. Nothing wrong with it, but let's be real, their strength comes from far more than trying to melee things. The only increase in on-shot mechcanics happened around Adoulin and that's usually because everything has become AoE heavy (which matches current MMO gameplay of every boss spamming AoE type skills you either avoid or never want to be near) but at the same time, nothing was so hard to manage it's just the "Easy Route" was to not have Melee that didn't know what was going on. (It's fairly easy to avoid some of the AoE damage but not all.) The job Imbalances are what made some content fun though since it was double edged in a good way, since no matter how "OP" you are, something can still kick your *** if you're not careful.

Quote:
Been ready for years, really. It's cool to see some others finally getting on board, too. Sadly, it's probably too late for XIV in that regard


It definitely is too late for XIV because they can toss out (insert basic mechanic from 2005) and people praise Yoshida like a god. 4.0 will probably be EXACTLY the same as 2.0 and 3.0 and people will deem it amazing and innovative gameplay and successful. (Despite the fact SE's previous report last november said HW wasn't actually successful from a business standpoint.)

March is basically over, their Fiscal Year is over, there's still a chance things could change, but likely not.
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