1
Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next »
Reply To Thread

Newest unofficial census numbersFollow

#127 May 01 2016 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
448 posts
Theonehio wrote:


No, but the fact you could clear Turn 2 no less than 3 times (if optimal) in the time it takes to do ONE enrage, I don't know if it's easier because it's also far more harder on the heal check than doing the run normally.


The fact is also by the time I did Coil (as a "filthy casual" like I am, of course) - on JP servers, by the way - there was NO ONE willing to do the Allagan rot strategy.

Can't fault the players to an extent though, I despise time limited battles where you have to rush or you'll die - again the product of the instakill mechanics. Aside the fact that in T2 people were able to overcome the enrage mechanic this way, it shows again a general good idea (decide which buff and debuff apply to the boss) completely destroyed by the "don't do the correct steps? Die" mentality.
Again, most of Coil I did felt like a chore.

Edited, May 2nd 2016 6:10am by xizro
____________________________
Korede..Millia moshido wa...
PLD/WAR 75/37 - Asura
#128 May 01 2016 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,157 posts
Karlina wrote:
Again, making the FFXI comparison, did we EVER play FFXI the way the devs actually intended?

While AV and PW may be the standout mobs of inquiry, I've also been curious how they intended us to fight Shadow Lord without CS zerging.
____________________________
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#129 May 02 2016 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Karlina wrote:
I'm talking about things like burn parties and WS spamming on VTs and stuff. There's no way the game was designed with that in mind.
Considering how you're rewarded exponentially more for number of kills than for difficulty, I'd argue that is the way the game was intended to be played and we had it wrong for the first few years.

Edited, May 2nd 2016 1:22pm by lolgaxe
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#130 May 02 2016 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Considering how you're rewarded exponentially more for number of kills than for difficulty, I'd argue that is the way the game was intended to be played and we had it wrong for the first few years.


+1!

Some of the best exp parties I ever had pre-ToAU were chaining VT mobs, but so many players were in the mindset of grinding IT only. Weren't KRT burn parties all about chaining Ts and VTs?
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#131 May 02 2016 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
****
5,729 posts
Really I think we exp'd wrong on a fundamental level. The game was probably originally designed around the idea of smaller groups fighting EM/Ts

Look at a job like PLD. All those defensive abilities and healing magic but also A ratings in three weapons and a B in another. I'm guessing it was designed to be a hybrid tank or combat healer, rather than a pure tank. DRK was likewise probably supposed to be a combat caster. Low skill ratings and hybrids jobs like RDM wouldn't matter as much if you were primarily fighting lower level mobs.
____________________________
75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat

Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
#132 May 03 2016 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,175 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Karlina wrote:
I'm talking about things like burn parties and WS spamming on VTs and stuff. There's no way the game was designed with that in mind.
Considering how you're rewarded exponentially more for number of kills than for difficulty, I'd argue that is the way the game was intended to be played and we had it wrong for the first few years.


I think it's what saved me from quitting XI in the first place. I learned early on that you made better exp killing easy prey non stop. All that really changed from solo to group play was experience chains. I didn't expect it to change so it seemed like the intent to me. Even if it was a mistake, it felt like it was working as intended.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#133 May 03 2016 at 2:23 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,157 posts
Karlina wrote:
Really I think we exp'd wrong on a fundamental level. The game was probably originally designed around the idea of smaller groups fighting EM/Ts

Look at a job like PLD. All those defensive abilities and healing magic but also A ratings in three weapons and a B in another. I'm guessing it was designed to be a hybrid tank or combat healer, rather than a pure tank. DRK was likewise probably supposed to be a combat caster. Low skill ratings and hybrids jobs like RDM wouldn't matter as much if you were primarily fighting lower level mobs.

While I won't disagree they probably intended for us to fight weaker foes en masse, I'd say they dropped the ball in terms of EXP pay outs for weaker prey. They remedied this somewhat a few years back, but by then the player base had been through multiple different types of burn phases and we eventually got things like tomes to further nudge things along in old world camps.
____________________________
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#134 May 03 2016 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*****
12,820 posts
They actually boosted exp rates quite a bit early on, but a big problem was much like XIV, sometimes you get that one group that can't handle anything and it makes IT mobs seem like a boss fight, whereas you end up getting that one group that makes IT melts in chains along with VTs, kind of like back in the days of Kazham leveling when people pulled the occasional goblin for chaining.

Just based on the Japanese Beta > early 2002 of XI it did feel they intended us to mostly fight "as high as VT" and to avoid IT which largely depended on who and what checked the enemy to begin with. For example pretty much everything was IT high def/evasion to a level 11 WHM with no capped club/staff skill but the same monster may have been a low tier IT that would melt just as easily as a high end VT. When they changed the check system recently, a lot of it made more sense.

____________________________

#135 Jun 07 2016 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
6,631 posts
I play on a Japanese server, but due to my work hours I rarely catch the crowd in raids except weekends. Server been mostly quiet during my weekday login time. As far compromise between super hard and somewhat hard content (for more causal raider), I would think the Ex Primals are the "somewhat hard content" (some or you will disagree with me), while Alexander Savage and Bahamut are the super hard things for the really hard content.

The Hard/Ex Primals do take practice. I guess Japanese players handle pugs quite well (it was the same way in FFXI), and are welcoming and patient in practice runs with runs dedicated for practice with instruction macros. At the same time, there are generally clear 3-strike-and-out as an unwritten rule for non-practice or duty/content finder extreme runs. You rarely see rage quits or deliberate trolling behaviour; humorously I have seen GUI (gaming under alcohol influence) a few times >_>. It was only like 3 weeks ago I cleared Ex Sephirot, and that was with a pug team. Generally, the more causal folks tend to be quite averaged out, and team work been pretty predictable with low variance (again it was like that in FFXI...). I do not know the situation in NA/EU servers with practice runs, but friends in NA servers do appear to struggle with pug. I am not familiar with the situation in Alexander Savage as I have never done one.

To be fair, I do really hate those instant-kill mechanics that are quite prevalent in Ex Primals. The original Ex/Hard Titan and the recent Ex Sephirot, the margin of error for DPS check is quite thin. Having one guy get instant killed and out of battlefield, you are pretty much screwed. At the same time, despite the notoriety of Titan, I will think Extreme Thordan is the hardest Ex to learn fully as it is only the Ex that the moves don't cycle.
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#136 Jun 08 2016 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*****
12,820 posts
Yep, that's largely why I even keep an alt up to date on Balmung and Sarga because all of my friends complaining it's hard to get through certain content they really want to do when they have to pug some people, so the more people going in that knows the content or less likely to continually make the same mistakes for 2 hours, the more likely it is to get through it.

That's why while i don't like instant kill mechanics, I don't mind them in the grand scheme of things because that's all FFXIV has in it's design, there's very little room for "difficulty" that isn't facerolls or instant face melting.

That's why I enjoy Weeping City even if it's on the tad bit easy side (I haven't tried it on my Balmung character yet) since it's largely just do mechanics and know your job. Learning it was fun though because it actually felt like..actual content. Like you actually have to use your head!
____________________________

#137 Jun 14 2016 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
6,631 posts
I don't think Weeping City is that easy especially with the "chair dude" necromancer and the ball thing (please excuse my crude description... haha). Weeping City is the first time ever I saw time ran out for a 24 player raid (with a specially made 24 pug alliance) with most players entering the first time (I was there just to have fun and be helpful). It took n number of wipes and 60 minutes to kill that chair dude, and we ran out of time at the ball thing.

Edited, Jun 14th 2016 8:04am by scchan
____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#138 Jun 14 2016 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*****
12,820 posts
Yeah, I just say it's on the easy side since it's just do the mechanics (the first 3 bosses are literally mechanic fights with only 1 DPS check) since the bosses themselves aren't really that bad. It's much like people feel titan hm/ex and sephirot/thordan/nidhogg ex are these absolutely hard encounters but they have the easiest mechanic rotation. It's just when you get slapped with people who refuse to learn or listen makes it utterly impossible. Forgall (the pandemonium warden dude) is probably the easier, but he has punishing mechanics that players aren't ready for because they're so used to content carrying you and holding your hand and barely dying in this game (let's be real, unless you do savage or harder ex primals you won't die unless it's your fault lol.)

That's why 3.3 was dubbed the awakening because you have all these "pro healers" not able to keep tanks up or heal through Hell Wind in time and watch 9-18 people drop like flies in the next mechanic after. The difficulty of WC is perfect since it's a mix of mechanics and taking your ilvl into consideration (meaning you can actually die!)

That's why I didn't mind learning it or helping people through it because it's actually fun, it's just when you get that set of people that makes thing harder than it needs to be....

And before anyone says it, no, it's not a matter of "taking time to learn it" as people like to feel, after 7 wipes if you don't understand the concept of "STAND IN THIS PILLAR, STACK THE BRAND, STEP IN THE GREEN PUDDLE AFTER ADD PHASE BEFORE MEGADEATH CAST FINISHES", you're refusing to learn, spending 7 wipes and 30-40 minutes on a scripted boss fight is enough time to learn at least ONE of the mechanics, no? xD
____________________________

1 2 3 4 5 6 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 8 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (8)