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"Human or not" a letter to Yoshi-P & SEFollow

#102 Dec 08 2016 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Otherwise, it's pretty dumb to assert that everyone should play the same way or else they're fundamentally looking at the genre wrong.


I never understood this when people are trying to push solo play being "just as important" and not realize how that kind of throws everything out of whack. Solo play is perfectly fine...as long as it's not tied to progression. A game can't properly cater to solo and group play and keep rewards balanced because one option WILL BE superior to the other...Even in XI currently due to low population you can "solo" with the help of awesome NPC helpers, yet it still requires learning the content. Solo play in XIV usually means no difficulty and no mechanics to deal with because the content base is built around 4 man parties and the end-game content is built around 8 man, any deviation from that will throw everything out of whack severely in this game, not the genre, but this game. I prefer to duo with my SO when possible in games so I'm not against "solo/low man" but.....

Let's be honest, with FFXIV in particular the game has no horizontal growth. It has a terrible vertical growth even for a vertical progression system, if you try to "split" that by allowing meaningful solo play, you already ruined group play because NO ONE will touch an aspect of the game that is worthless. You may find it fun or prefer it but guess what? Participation speaks and even Yoshida himself stated the introduction of the Raid Finder got almost everyone (that don't sit around crying everything is too hard or they have "no time" but has plenty of time to do content with no mechanics) particpating in a sense and that clear numbers on ex primals and savage content is at its highest since Coil, which too was at a high clear rate overall compared to the Gordias mess up.

Here's why trying to add solo play progressively is bad:

Ilvl 300 from solo play - Content involves killing trash mobs, no mechanics, no learning curve.
Ilvl 300 from Group play - Content involves learning the boss patterns, the field mechanics, the ilvl requirements to meet DPS checks, Heal checks, not get face caved in by tank busters, getting the flow of battle down with your group you go in premade or raid finder.

The ilvl300 body from solo play has better stats than the one from group play - why would I do the group content when I can get the same and better rewards from solo play? Basic human nature leads you to path of least resistance, especially so in FFXIV.

I mean I get it, some people just hate group play, but there's numerous single player RPGs, some with MMO like mechanics you can play and funnily enough, people get told "this game is not for you" all the time whenever you bring up something you dislike, but don't seem to realize themselves if they like solo play, clearly, MMOs aren't for you. Solo play with it's own progression system similar to PoTD (so the only overlap at best is maybe a weapon/armor) would be cool to have, but if there's another Diadem situation where better stuff comes from doing less work, good luck convincing your players to do content that requires actually knowing how to play the game lol.

Not even saying this as a personal thing, since we all have our preferences but shouldn't the same logic apply? You can say "want more challenging content!" you get told "FFXIV isn't for you." "Want better itemization!" get told "FFXIV isn't for you", well if you feel MMOs should have more solo play..technically multiplayer games aren't for you either. If XIV has 6 million players like SE loves boast, should be no problem finding people you can click with Smiley: nod

As far as successful MMOs go...

Unless your MMO is named Maplestory, you're not successful if FFXI can't be considered successful because it didn't have millions upon millions of subscribers. No MMO prior to WoW could be considered successful either then since all WoW realistically did was make the genre more mainstream, similar to how Halo brought in a new generation of FPS players due to being a very successful console FPS, a really fun one at that. Goldeneye still takes the crown, but Halo had the LAN and online Multiplayer eventually.


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#103 Dec 08 2016 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
It always seems like anyone who can't understand the concept that the older multiplayer content gets, the harder it is to do (as intended),


"As Intended"?

Why would the devs intend for content to get harder as time goes on? That doesn't make sense, because you know they're going to have to allow shortcuts and/or skips later on when said content becomes a roadblock, so why would they intend for the content to get harder as time passes?

That doesn't even make sense. I'd think the developers would want players to enjoy the content as long as possible, rather than wanting it to become so difficult it becomes impossible to get done.
#104 Dec 08 2016 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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RE:Theonehio:

Is there some reason why solo play can't be relevant when it yields older item-level?

Let's say current Raids give i300.

Why not allow a solo play that gives i280-290?

That way, it isn't as good as what you could get from raids, but yet it is good enough that a player who doesn't have much luck or time to raid can still progress his character and be reasonably happy.

But yes, I do agree that solo can't be as good as raid, that's not good for grouping. But, that doesn't mean we have to make solo worthless, either.
#105 Dec 08 2016 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
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Lyrailis if you want to try and use numbers to support your cause, you're better off going to a site like wowprogress and finding actual data. Try doing that instead. Just a warning though, you're not even remotely close with what you posted above.


What numbers are YOU using to determine that he's wrong?

Blizzard has always been open with their numbers. On top of that, the WoW Armory is far more feature-rich than Lodestone especially when it comes to achievements and being able to track player/guild progress. Wowprogress is probably the site I use most for that, but there are a number of other places you can find it as well.

I'd prefer that Lyrailis take initiative to look this info up before making baseless statements. That's kinda part of his problem anyway. If he took initiative to find or create groups, he'd be getting things done. That's how these games work. For reference, lets look at what he said again:

Lyrailis wrote:
When a new raid is released, it might look something like this:

(Inexperienced:Experienced players interested in doing the content, where "Experienced" are people who have fully cleared the content at least once)

At the beginning: 100:0
A week later: 70:30
A month later: 50:50
2 months later: 20:80
6+ months later: 10:90+

After 2 months, 80% of players have cleared the raid(normal I assume) and the other 20% have not.

I'm going to drop two numbers on you here, but I'll also explain why.

The first number is going to be the total amount of players who had NOT completed the Siege of Orgrimmar raid on 'Normal' difficulty. I'm going to give you that because it lines up with what Lyrailis is trying to represent in his chart above.

4 months after Garrosh was released only 13.3% of the population had defeated him. Based on Lyrailis chart, that number should have been over 80%. He's not even remotely close. The actual data is almost polar opposite to his theory honestly.

Actually I'm not going to give you the second number. I was going to post the percentage of players who had not killed the FIRST boss of SoO. Because he's whining about not being able to find players to learn with, the data would pretty much put that to rest, but to be fair... he should probably be embarrassed enough.


My advice to you Lyrailis is to get off your *** and start learning to find players who will make groups or to make your own. I think we all understand the difference between real life and fantasy, but your success in a video game closely parallels your success in life. You have to go out and get what you want. Don't sit back acting like it's just going to come to you because you're subscribed.

That employer for that sweet job you are looking for is going to expect that you're experienced. How you get that experience is up to you, but rolling your eyes and thinking of them as elitist pricks is going to get you nowhere. Good luck!
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#106 Dec 08 2016 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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but your success in a video game closely parallels your success in life.


Well, let's back up the chocobo a step.

Whatever you define as "success in real life" clearly takes priority over a video game, even one as awesome as FFXI. So, no, you literally can't put these on the same plane. Being successful in real life means the video games take a back seat to actual important things, which is why so many successful adults have a hard time carving out consistent time slots for video games -- or, they seek out games like FFXIV that allow for more relaxed group play -- and that's OK.

Wait, is this 2013? I feel like we've been here before.

Edited, Dec 8th 2016 3:13pm by Thayos
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#107 Dec 08 2016 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Seriha wrote:
It always seems like anyone who can't understand the concept that the older multiplayer content gets, the harder it is to do (as intended),


"As Intended"?

I meant it as without nerfs, buffs like echo, comparable gear accessible elsewhere at a later date, or things like mandatory level caps. Nonetheless, there ARE players who believe content is best left in its virgin launch state, especially if tiering is at play. And a lot of the time, they also try to push old content being kept in relevancy despite all the difficulties in doing so.

As for Hio's contrarian act, it's just the same old, "I can't figure out how to do it, so it must be impossible!" The sooner you divorce the concept of solo-friendly from "has to be faceroll" the better these conversations might go. At this point, I have no delusion that XIV could reach the required state based on past and present. Nonetheless, that doesn't means the topic isn't important for the sake of future titles everywhere.

So, for the infinity-ith time, people wanting viable solo options aren't skill-less, anti-social idiots looking for handouts. A few whine posts you see on the OF, perhaps made solely to troll people like you, are not indicative of the demographic myself and others attempt to represent. They want a game where they can log on and feel like they get something done without the shackles of queue times, being the right jobs, putting up with elitist **** because they're learning, and not having to commit to (bi-)weekly schedules for months on end just to finish a single set. More realistically, the game "for them" does not exist precisely because of drivel like keeping progression out of their hands. Everything's awesome in JP land, we know. NAs suck, we've been there. Maybe, just maybe, some of us are tired of empowering the crap behavior such refusal to change capitulates. And you know what? Despite wanting to increase viability, we've got nothing against the ability to bring friends along for what we'd be doing, either. It's almost as if we're attempting to value fun over status. Shame on us, truly.
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#108 Dec 08 2016 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
I think it's hilarious that I've been gone from the forum for awhile and now that I'm back, what do I find? Hio and Filth whining about people who don't want static-requiring, wall-bashing content to be the only path of progression. And I'm betting that Filth still doesn't actually play.

No matter. Bring on Blood... what's the expansion called? Ah, STORMBLOOD. Bring it on!
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#109 Dec 08 2016 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
Also, friendly reminder!

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/7f6f03825f75fdb71701f7ad9f68cbf4d8ab3bca

You can play for free for up to 96 hours until January 4th. I just have to time this properly so I can maximize my play time over a few days.
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#110 Dec 08 2016 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:


The first number is going to be the total amount of players who had NOT completed the Siege of Orgrimmar raid on 'Normal' difficulty. I'm going to give you that because it lines up with what Lyrailis is trying to represent in his chart above.

4 months after Garrosh was released only 13.3% of the population had defeated him. Based on Lyrailis chart, that number should have been over 80%. He's not even remotely close. The actual data is almost polar opposite to his theory honestly.


Try going back to what I said, I said "players who are interested in the content".

A huge chunk of the playerbase does not care about the newest raids. Not everybody is a raider or even wants to be a raider. Some people only care about transmog gear from old raids. Some people ONLY do PvP, and don't care about PvE. Some people sit in p0rnshire for 90% of their time with nothing equipped dancing on the bloody tables.

However, Blizzard's numbers cannot, and will not, ever count these people unless they actively held a poll. And even if they DID hold a poll, it would still be off, because not everybody would respond to said poll.

Blizzard's numbers are assuming everybody who has a max-level character is interested in the raids. This is simply nowhere near true, but there's no machine that can tell who wants to raid and who does not.

You cannot lump non-raiders into a % box, because that "13.3% of the population" is INCLUDING the non-raiders who should not be included in your figures.

EDIT: It is also kinda strange that you chose "Normal" Difficulty instead of looking at Raid Finder (I've seen people getting kicked for not doing "enough DPS" even though their DPS was technically enough to clear the content). Some people might wanna "just see the sights once" and only do it once on LFR and then never touch it again.

EDIT2: Furthermore, SoO was infamously difficult compared to previous raids. How about finding something easier, like, perhaps the first raid of Mists (I forget what it was called), include ALL difficulties INCLUDING Raid Finder, who cleared said raid in the first 2-3 months (gotta give people time to reach max level first).

Edited, Dec 8th 2016 8:12pm by Lyrailis
#111 Dec 08 2016 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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I missed this, and instead of editing that post for the 10th time and having ZAM bomb out on me I'm just gonna reply again.

This is just so LOL.

Quote:
My advice to you Lyrailis is to get off your *** and start learning to find players who will make groups or to make your own.


lol. That's assuming I have the time or the schedule to devote to weekly raiding or what-not, lol. But then, you said...

Quote:
I think we all understand the difference between real life and fantasy, but your success in a video game closely parallels your success in life.


Success IRL is mutually exclusive to success in endgame MMORPG. If you're "Successful" IRL, you probably have a 40 hour per week job, and a family. Not really a good recipe for being successful in a game that wants 10-20 hours a week from you to keep up with the rest of the crowd.

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You have to go out and get what you want.


Wish I could, but no, I need 3, 7, 24 whatever other people before I can. These people must want the same thing I want, the same time I want it.

If I could just go out and do a difficult quest and get progress towards armor, I would already be doing that. Oh wait, getting gear by yourself? THE HORROR MAN, THE HORROR.

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Don't sit back acting like it's just going to come to you because you're subscribed.


Don't sit there acting like you're entitled to look down your nose at everybody else just because you happen to have gotten lucky enough times, or you happened to know people going into the game.

Quote:
That employer for that sweet job you are looking for is going to expect that you're experienced.


No, he's first going to expect that you have the proper education. Then, he's going to expect that you're going to be reliable and show up for work on-time. Then, he's going to expect that you are professional. THEN, after all that, he's looking for experience.

And that's assuming you're not doing something more mundane, then a lot of employers don't care about experience, they just want a warm body that'll show up which is half the battle these days.

I can't remember the last time I showed up at a job interview and the guy said "Oh, your clothes aren't good enough, we can't take you. You'll never be able to handle the job."

See, when you get a job, you usually have a training period. You surely know this, because I would hope you are employed? No employer expects a fresh hire to instantly know what to do, and how to do it. Nobody does that. You should have proficiency in the TYPE of job you are applying to do (an EMT, for example, had better know first aid and other related skills) but yet no employer expects said employees to know the layouts of the buildings they are going to be working in, company policies, etc. These things must be learned through training.

Using that as an analogy for raiding in FFXIV, a black mage better know how to be a black mage. Otherwise, they can't be expected to know the dungeon layout, the boss's attacks, etc before even stepping foot in the raid. You can watch Youtubes, but you're going to have to experience it someday.

Oh wait, nobody will take you unless you have the achievements. Right.

Can you imagine if employers IRL did that? On the first day: "You don't know the layout of our building? You didn't even know that it is company policy to show up at the lobby for daily meetings at 9AM? You're fired!"

Everybody would go out of business, because nobody can be expected to know this stuff before even getting the job. There's usually a few days to a week of training so the employee knows the routines and what they are expected to do, exactly.

Quote:
How you get that experience is up to you, but rolling your eyes and thinking of them as elitist pricks is going to get you nowhere. Good luck!


There is only one way to get the experience -- go do the raid.

But if nobody will take you because you lack experience, then you can't get the experience, which is the whole bloody point that you've not addressed.
#112 Dec 08 2016 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
RE:Theonehio:

Is there some reason why solo play can't be relevant when it yields older item-level?

Let's say current Raids give i300.

Why not allow a solo play that gives i280-290?

That way, it isn't as good as what you could get from raids, but yet it is good enough that a player who doesn't have much luck or time to raid can still progress his character and be reasonably happy.

But yes, I do agree that solo can't be as good as raid, that's not good for grouping. But, that doesn't mean we have to make solo worthless, either.


That's why I mentioned PoTD style - That way you legit have a choice in the way and it won't overlap (thus there won't be one option that obsoletes the other option) since in current style, PoTD only offers an ilvl255 which is the current "casual" weapon you can obtain that will hold you through every content current FFXIV has to offer. You also have relics if you absolutely must have ilvl260 or you like their design.

It's just keeping them on par with each other is a weird situation. If this was any other MMORPG I'd actually enjoy it, but it's really hard to trust Yoshi when he already doesn't want jobs to even be unique from each other, which alone is what makes solo/group progression such a weird aspect. If it was XI where you could supplement weaknesses with a subjob choice it would go over a lot better I think.

Thayos wrote:
I think it's hilarious that I've been gone from the forum for awhile and now that I'm back, what do I find? Hio and Filth whining about people who don't want static-requiring, wall-bashing content to be the only path of progression. And I'm betting that Filth still doesn't actually play.

No matter. Bring on Blood... what's the expansion called? Ah, STORMBLOOD. Bring it on!


As much wall bashing as you do when you first do an ex primal or alliance content - but you don't and haven't touched XIV raid content and only going off on what you read, since you assume world first runners make up everyone who does raid content. More power to you, Thayos.

I'll make it easier for you to understand though:

Raid - Mechanics, Ilvl requirements (DPS/Heal checks), knowing how to play the game.
Ex Primals - Mechanics, ilvl requirements (DPS checks vary), knowing how to play the game.
Alliance content - Some mechanics (very few ways to wipe unless you completely drop the ball), can be carried by 1 group largely.

What's the difference between raid and ex primals? nothing. However since you play on an NA server, it's not surprising you still hold onto the "must have static!!!!!!!!" line of thought, when not only is that not true, but Yoshida himself said clear rates are even higher than coil days thanks to raid finder,

So no, sorry to break it to you but there's no "whining" - when you actually do the content in this game, you see VERY clearly how SE, specifically Yoshi, wants to handle things. Every content has a dance to learn, once you learn that dance you clear and farm content, don't pretend there's any "wall bashing" anywhere lol, the only time that was true was Gordias which yoshi himself said the QA team couldn't even complete start to finish.

EVERY ONE hated Gordias. You had the select few people who liked the difficulty, but everyone who raided in ARR despised it.

Edited, Dec 8th 2016 6:23pm by Theonehio
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#113 Dec 08 2016 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Hio wrote:
Blah blah blah, sweeping generalization, dumb comment here, I'm a broken record!


I can't believe you're still playing this game!

Hardcore Hio. Playin' like it's a job.


Edited, Dec 8th 2016 7:15pm by Thayos
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#114 Dec 09 2016 at 1:17 AM Rating: Default
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Stay your course Lyrailis. You're doing it right. Eventually you might realize that it's hypocritical of you to say "I don't want to waste my time" but roll your eyes at players who won't carry your *** through a raid because they don't want to waste their time.

XIV needs more players like this. Re-sub and don't ever look back.
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#115 Dec 09 2016 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
This place never gets old. Comparing success in real life to that in a video game...wow...
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#116 Dec 09 2016 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Stay your course Lyrailis. You're doing it right. Eventually you might realize that it's hypocritical of you to say "I don't want to waste my time" but roll your eyes at players who won't carry your *** through a raid because they don't want to waste their time.

XIV needs more players like this. Re-sub and don't ever look back.


Who said anything about a carry?

If I join Raid Finder, or ask to join a group to go do the content, I go with the full intention of doing my fair share of the work, as best as I can possibly do it. If I've never been there, I will need to learn the layout and the bosses, but how am I supposed to actually learn without actually going there?

I don't get where you're getting the "carry" bit, lol.

A carry is when someone joins a raid and just does nothing, stands around, or they aren't pulling their weight but are able to get through the content anyways.

Edited, Dec 9th 2016 2:19pm by Lyrailis
#117 Dec 09 2016 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Otherwise, it's pretty dumb to assert that everyone should play the same way or else they're fundamentally looking at the genre wrong.
That's literally complaining you can't use a bowling ball to play baseball.
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#118 Dec 09 2016 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
That's literally complaining you can't use a bowling ball to play baseball.


Uh oh, bad sports analogy!

You're an epic poster, lolgaxe, one of the few who I've ever gone out of my way to not cross swords with. But this time, you've fallen flat. Perhaps I'm motivated by the fact I'm more of a sports nut than a gamer (although, really, bowling is more of a game than a sport), and you've kind of crossed into my territory here. I really need to straighten out your sports reference though.

FFXIV is a theme park MMO, not an upside-down rollercoaster MMO. This means FFXIV is built around the concept of having different things to do for different people, not just having the exact same upside-down rollercoast spread out in various locations.

Not everyone can do the upside-down rollercoaster. Some people get vertigo. Some get motion sickness. Some don't have time to stand in the two-hour line. Some just don't like rollercoasters. You could even offer huge stuffed animals after riding the coaster, but that won't force people onto it if it's seriously not practical or doable.

So, let's convert the theme park concept to a sports concept....

If FFXIV were a sports park, you'd have bowling and baseball as separate events. Baseball would be for people who have enough friends and time to manage a team and schedule lengthy games. Bowling would be for people who might want to casually bowl with friends or even bowl alone. One might say baseball is like raiding, while bowling is like Palace of the Dead.

Anyway, you get the idea. The poster you criticized was not even remotely suggesting bringing a bowling ball to a baseball game. He was criticizing people who poo-poo on not everything being time-intensive team sports that require significantly more organization, when it makes perfect sense to also include bowling allies, basketball hoops, tennis courts and other athletic activities that can be enjoyed by one to several people with much less hassle.

Basically, you just yelled at the point guard for thinking a screen pass would work in extra time.

Edited, Dec 9th 2016 12:45pm by Thayos
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#119 Dec 09 2016 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Uh oh, bad sports analogy!
Don't worry, I know what you actually meant was that it was spot on similar.
Thayos wrote:
This means FFXIV is built around the concept of having different things to do for different people, not just having the exact same upside-down rollercoast spread out in various locations.
FFXIV is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. That means that it is meant to be played by a bunch of people online at the same time taking on certain roles to accomplish a set of tasks. Again, not an analogy but a literally description of what it is. Complaining about the multiplayer aspect of a multiplayer game is, still, literally bowling ball in baseball.
Thayos wrote:
Not everyone can do the upside-down rollercoaster.
Here's where you're the furthest from the starting point you'll ever get. That roller coaster isn't just a random ride. FFXIV is built around that roller coaster, and if you knew a park is built around a certain feature that you didn't enjoy then you would simply not go to that park, right? You wouldn't go to a zoo and complain there are too many animals, would you?
Thayos wrote:
Do I really need to keep going?
To use more sports, you can run a marathon the wrong direction all you want. Doesn't really change you're still going in the wrong direction.

Edited, Dec 9th 2016 3:46pm by lolgaxe
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#121 Dec 09 2016 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
I kept going. :)

And now, more!

Quote:
To use more sports, you can run a marathon the wrong direction all you want. Doesn't really change you're still going in the wrong direction.


Yeah, so I take it you're not really into sports lol. Turns out, I actually just ran (and finished) a marathon, so once again I'm the expert here. Let's take this apart:

Marathons follow defined courses. If you leave the course, you're done -- disqualified. However, while on the course, you can do whatever the hell you want. Want to hop the marathon? OK. Want to skip the marathon? OK. Want to crawl the marathon? Eh, there may be rules against that, but you get the idea. As long as you finish before the course closes, you don't have to "run" in the traditional sense. But running is certainly the best way to do it. I've only ever ran, and don't see any need for hopping or skipping, but whatever. I also see dudes running barefoot, while most prefer running shoes. Again, whatever gets you to the finish.

A casual runner probably wouldn't do a marathon though. In fact, if any of you reading this are casual runners thinking about jumping into a marathon just to prove me wrong, DON'T DO IT. Please, think twice -- marathons are serious business. You can do it, but you need to train properly.

However, you can do a 5k! Or a 10k! Even try a half marathon, if you're more of a midcore runner. See, just like MMO theme parks, within the sport of running there are various events to cater toward all needs! It's absurd to think every runner must be a marathon runner. However, many runners who dabble in the more casual events might find that they enjoy long distances enough that maybe marathons are right for them.

Also, just because I'm a damn good runner doesn't mean I'd be a good soccer player. I'm a pretty decent basketball player, but don't ask me to play football. I suck at skating, but I'm an excellent skier. There is no one-size-fits all talent that extends to all things, which is why the theme park approach is so nice (when done properly). FFXIV clearly has work to do in that regard, but that's not what I'm debating right now.


Edited, Dec 9th 2016 1:03pm by Thayos
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#122 Dec 09 2016 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Here's where you're the furthest from the starting point you'll ever get. That roller coaster isn't just a random ride. FFXIV is built around that roller coaster, and if you knew a park is built around a certain feature that you didn't enjoy then you would simply not go to that park, right? You wouldn't go to a zoo and complain there are too many animals, would you?


Uh... then what's the rollercoaster in your analogy that FFXIV is built around? FFXIV is a theme park MMO. That's just the style of MMO it is, as opposed to a sandbox MMO. FFXI is also a theme park. A theme park MMO has a bunch of different pre-built attractions to choose from. You can pick the ones you want to do, and generally ignore the ones you don't want to do. As long as you're having fun, you're good.

If you really want a rollercoaster analog... maybe the leveling process? Since it's really the one unskippable aspect of the game? So in this case you'd be riding the rollercoaster until it vomits you out at the end into the theme park. Kinda messy, but it works.

Wanting things to do in a theme park that appeal to you isn't unusual. Now obviously if the park doesn't have enough things to pique your interest, then the park may not be for you. But I don't think that's really the case for anyone here (maybe Nashred... eh). But there's no bowling ball to baseball game analogy to be had here. It just doesn't work.
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svlyons wrote:
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#123 Dec 09 2016 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Turns out, I actually just ran (and finished) a marathon, so once again I'm the expert here.
New York on the 6th? Because the only years I've missed that in the last two decades were during deployments. I mean, if you want to whip it out and measure believing it'll be impressive go ahead.
Thayos wrote:
Marathons follow defined courses. If you leave the course, you're done -- disqualified. However, while on the course, you can do whatever the **** you want.
If you're going to keep going, then a nickles worth of advice would be to not prove the person you're arguing with right. There is a way to run a marathon wrong, the same as there is a way to play an MMO wrong.

Bowling ball, baseball, zoo, too many animals, marathon, wrong direction.
Callinon wrote:
Uh... then what's the rollercoaster in your analogy that FFXIV is built around?
Sorry, I sometimes forget that what's obvious to me might not be obvious to others. Trouble with bordering genius. The rollercoaster in this scenario is the Multiplayer part of the title.

Edited, Dec 9th 2016 4:08pm by lolgaxe
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#124 Dec 09 2016 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
New York on the 6th? Because the only years I've missed that in the last two decades were during deployments. I mean, if you want to whip it out and measure believing it'll be impressive go ahead.


Son, I'll measure up any time. If you're such an accomplished marathon runner, then why isn't that reflected in what you've said about marathons? I trust you'll bring at least your B game to your next sports analogy. Keep that weak sauce out of my kitchen.

Quote:
If you're going to keep going, then a nickles worth of advice would be to not prove the person you're arguing with right. There is a way to run a marathon wrong, the same as there is a way to play an MMO wrong.


I proved your earlier statement wrong. You said you could run in any direction you'd like while still participating, and that's false. Totally false! And you further proved your earlier comment completely invalid and nonsensical.

And how on earth do you play an MMO wrong? This isn't a baseball MMO, dude. Get that weak sauce outta here. You're usually so much better than this! Where is the real lolgaxe?

Quote:
The rollercoaster in this scenario is the Multiplayer part of the title.


Is it? Or is that just what it is to you?

To me, an online multiplayer game is a game you play online with multiple players. And I bet if you put that borderline genius mind of yours to work, you can think of a few ways outside of raiding in which people play online together.

I won't spoil it though by just giving you the answers.

EDIT: Also, lolgaxe, I've got to ask... what is your PR? Must be pretty dang fast if you've ran so many NYs.



Edited, Dec 9th 2016 1:37pm by Thayos
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#125 Dec 09 2016 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Sorry, I sometimes forget that what's obvious to me might not be obvious to others. Trouble with bordering genius. The rollercoaster in this scenario is the Multiplayer part of the title.


While I understand that I am unworthy, I'd like to point out that FFXIV has a whole bunch of parts that don't involve playing with other people. Sure you get together with people to do dungeons and raids and what have you... but then there's leveling, the story, PotD, the relic grind, and other things that you do by yourself. Claiming that raiding or dungeons are the entire game (which is basically what you did) is intellectually dishonest.
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svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#126 Dec 09 2016 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Claiming that raiding or dungeons are the entire game (which is basically what you did) is intellectually dishonest.


YOU are a borderline genius!
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Jormungandr
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