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#52 Jan 21 2014 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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You liked the Tourney? How much is Blizzard paying you? Smiley: glare

It was the most clunky thing ever. Even with 18ms latency, I would ride straight through **** and not hit it.
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#53 Jan 21 2014 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I enjoyed the tourney. Of course I am one of those weird people who enjoys dailies.
#54 Jan 21 2014 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't mind the tourney at all. And I have all mounts and pets that can be acquired there. The only thing still missing is the Horde-only Grunt-pet. But soon my Horde Monk will take care of that, too.
#55 Jan 21 2014 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Did jousting... work for you people?

And I mean that in a literal sense. Like, you hit a button, and then the desired effect happened?

Because that has almost never been my experience with it.

Also worth noting, since it's me, I hated the Tourney in concept, too. There is NO acceptable explanation for why they pitch a big freaking fair tent IN enemy territory. I mean, there were massive camps of Necromancers literally kidnapping a ton of tourney-goers EVERY DAY. I want to know what the total death count there was...
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#56 Jan 21 2014 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Did jousting... work for you people?

And I mean that in a literal sense. Like, you hit a button, and then the desired effect happened?

Because that has almost never been my experience with it.

Also worth noting, since it's me, I hated the Tourney in concept, too. There is NO acceptable explanation for why they pitch a big freaking fair tent IN enemy territory. I mean, there were massive camps of Necromancers literally kidnapping a ton of tourney-goers EVERY DAY. I want to know what the total death count there was...


I think at first I had some problems with it since the handling is really screwed up. But after I got the hang of it it worked pretty well.

The 'lore' behind the tournament (including the 5man instances and the raid) was indeed incredibly stupid. Smiley: oyvey
#57 Jan 21 2014 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Did jousting... work for you people?

And I mean that in a literal sense. Like, you hit a button, and then the desired effect happened?


I think at first I had some problems with it since the handling is really screwed up. But after I got the hang of it it worked pretty well.
Same here.

It was clunky, but a clunky that became more manageable with practice. Enjoyable enough for me to grind out a couple of mounts. Nice to have as a diversion, but something I'm glad didn't become more common.
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#58 Jan 21 2014 at 7:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:

It was clunky, but a clunky that became more manageable with practice. Enjoyable enough for me to grind out a couple of mounts. Nice to have as a diversion, but something I'm glad didn't become more common.


Pretty much. Clunky but enjoyable since it is just located to that specific area and no where else.
#59 Jan 21 2014 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I never had problems with it working, unless I had some lag either my side or Blizzard's.

In my usual 30-120ms, it worked perfectly fine for me.

But then I used very minimal addons, and I found the Jousting thing rather easy to get the hang of, even though most couldn't seem to do it at all.

Quote:
It was the most clunky thing ever. Even with 18ms latency, I would ride straight through sh*t and not hit it.


You weren't supposed to "Ride straight through sh*t", you were supposed to hit one of the 3 'attack' buttons (melee, throw, charge and they worked exactly like certain class abilities do). And I've never, ever seen them fail with anything less than 200ms latency. 250+ I'd start getting "Target needs to be in front of you" or "Target out of Range" or "Target too close" errors.
#60 Jan 21 2014 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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When I had perfect latency, there was still a HUGE delay in using the action and the action happening. That's only gotten worse with time.

And the controls themselves are clunky and odd. It's just not a reactive system (even by design, with the way the vehicles move).

I could DO it, and I could do it decently well by the end. But I did it by exploiting the systems in ways they clearly weren't supposed to be used - pretty much cheating the vehicle mechanic against itself.
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#61 Jan 21 2014 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The vehicles do turn slowly, yes... but then they are designed to.

You can't turn a horse on a dime. That's.......how horses WORK. Other than the movement (turning), I don't see what you mean by being "Clunky". They work the same way a warrior does. "Hit this to melee. Hit this to throw a javelin. Hit this to charge". The charge has a second delay on it, but it makes sense -- you have to set the lance while your horse rears for the charge.

As far as any delay in the ability use, well... I haven't done jousting RECENTLY, but I finished all of my pets/mounts during Cataclysm and I did not notice any delay in ability use, at all.

Not even on Moon Guard, which is listed as "High" population, almost full-time. Not even when the content was current. Have you tried disabling Addons?

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 11:21pm by Lyrailis
#62 Jan 22 2014 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
It was the most clunky thing ever. Even with 18ms latency, I would ride straight through sh*t and not hit it.


You weren't supposed to "Ride straight through sh*t", you were supposed to hit one of the 3 'attack' buttons (melee, throw, charge and they worked exactly like certain class abilities do).


Which was the first flaw: A jousting mechanic where you just stand there and beat someone up with your lance. Great game. The second flaw was the fact that any movement, any movement at all, caused hitboxes to go ******** hence the aforementioned ************************************** comment.

I'm glad the mechanic worked for you, I really am, but I had angry players comment on it daily in the Icecrown general chat, so I know it wasn't just me. One of WoW's strong points has always been the responsiveness of the game, so the jousting thing was a very jarring switch from that.
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#63 Jan 22 2014 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
It was the most clunky thing ever. Even with 18ms latency, I would ride straight through sh*t and not hit it.


You weren't supposed to "Ride straight through sh*t", you were supposed to hit one of the 3 'attack' buttons (melee, throw, charge and they worked exactly like certain class abilities do).


Which was the first flaw: A jousting mechanic where you just stand there and beat someone up with your lance. Great game. The second flaw was the fact that any movement, any movement at all, caused hitboxes to go apesh*t, hence the aforementioned riding-through-sh*t-without-hitting-it comment.

I'm glad the mechanic worked for you, I really am, but I had angry players comment on it daily in the Icecrown general chat, so I know it wasn't just me. One of WoW's strong points has always been the responsiveness of the game, so the jousting thing was a very jarring switch from that.


That's what makes me think it was an Addon problem.

It worked fine for myself, and on my mom's computer, and I know a few friends who could joust just fine, but yet others are claiming all sorts of problems?

Probably a popular AddOn which is why I asked if you ever tried disabling AddOns. Especially since Vehicles and Vehicular Combat was a new thing at the time, and Blizzard never makes apologies for third party addons breaking stuff, because they really don't need to; it isn't on them to make sure the 3rd party stuff works.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2014 9:22am by Lyrailis
#64 Jan 22 2014 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Tried it with and without addons, but I didn't notice a change.
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#65 Jan 22 2014 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know if it was an addon, but I do know mouse turning and keyboard turning here hugely different when jousting. Mouse turning would move your camera and the horse would follow, which came across as heavy lag. Although if you turned with the keyboard you would turn normally, just slower.
#66 Jan 22 2014 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Tbh, for most of my WoW career, I've been extremely light with addons. Usually used the default UI, for instance. Only thing really standard was a threat meter.

Raolan wrote:
I don't know if it was an addon, but I do know mouse turning and keyboard turning here hugely different when jousting. Mouse turning would move your camera and the horse would follow, which came across as heavy lag. Although if you turned with the keyboard you would turn normally, just slower.


I did notice this, as well.

Honestly, though, I just think jousting was just at the intersection of a bunch of problems.

For one, vehicles have always had an input lag (at least for me). That's not limited to jousting. There's a noticeable delay between using a vehicle action and using a character ability. I just always figured it was a design problem (or choice).

If some people aren't having this, then it's definitely a design problem. And it's definitely a widespread one. Maybe it's not a majority of players (though before this thread I thought it was everyone), but it's definitely a really, really big minority.

But jousting itself is also just poorly designed. The shield-throw-charge thing just doesn't work out like it's supposed to. It's vastly more effective to cheat against he UI and the vehicle lag so you can chain charges together, plus playing fast and loose with the range detection. I'm not sure I know how to explain this, but I have finished the 4 champ fights without needing to heal, because you can exploit the mechanics against them.

On the other hand, if you DON'T exploit the mechanics, it's just painful. And it's just horribly inefficient to play as they designed it (if you're using 1, ever, you're doing it wrong).

/shrug

I wasn't a fan when they implemented it. I'm really not a fan now that the input lag has gotten much worse.
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#67 Jan 22 2014 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
But jousting itself is also just poorly designed. The shield-throw-charge thing just doesn't work out like it's supposed to.
In the end though, for me at least, it's an optional mini-game, which makes the whole thing less annoying. If the mechanic was central to the game it'd be a different story (and it was quite a pain when you had it in that 5-man instance), but at this point you don't have to do it, and you get stuff when you try.

If anything take it as proof that the promise of mounts and companion pets is too alluring of a siren song to be ignored. Smiley: nod
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#68 Jan 22 2014 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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Then they introduced aerial jousting in Cataclysm as part of the leveling chain...

Homeage aside, that quest is probably my least favorite of all times, including all the quests in Vashj'ir.
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#69 Jan 22 2014 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
But jousting itself is also just poorly designed. The shield-throw-charge thing just doesn't work out like it's supposed to.
In the end though, for me at least, it's an optional mini-game, which makes the whole thing less annoying. If the mechanic was central to the game it'd be a different story (and it was quite a pain when you had it in that 5-man instance), but at this point you don't have to do it, and you get stuff when you try.

If anything take it as proof that the promise of mounts and companion pets is too alluring of a siren song to be ignored. Smiley: nod


Oh, it wasn't the pets or mounts for me. I mean, I was a big pet collector, but I never cared to put in that much work for them.

It was the heirlooms, for me. THAT'S what I wanted. As noted in the thread earlier, I have major altitis. Not a single one of those items would have gone unused. Hells yeah.

Off the top of my head, I bought two of the Masses (though one was never recovered after my account got jacked). I have the Dignified Headmaster's Charge. I ended up with two of the cloth shoulders, somehow, and the cloth chest. I have the Agi and Spell Power leather. The Agi Mail. The 2-handed axe. A sword. The daggers. I'm pretty sure I'm missing some... I can't remember if I had the mail!plate or not. And I think I'm missing some... oh, the bow.

That might not be a lot at this point, two expacs later, but I earned nearly all of it during Wrath (and the month or two I played Cata)

And every time I go back to the game, I run those goddamn dailies, because there's just no better way to get the gear. Using the points seems ungodly slow. But the leveling experience is just WAY too painful without every possible exp buff loaded on, so...

Yeah.
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#70 Jan 22 2014 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Then they introduced aerial jousting in Cataclysm as part of the leveling chain...

Homeage aside, that quest is probably my least favorite of all times, including all the quests in Vashj'ir.


I enjoyed it. Although I'm old enough to have played the original.
#71 Jan 22 2014 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Then they introduced aerial jousting in Cataclysm as part of the leveling chain...

Homeage aside, that quest is probably my least favorite of all times, including all the quests in Vashj'ir.


OMG I FORGOT THAT EXISTED. I must have blocked it out...

That may have been the most angry I've ever been playing this game...

Hunter rolls need on an amazing upgrade str two-handed weapon? Nah. Garrosh anything? Nah.

That quest.

[EDIT]

It's such a shame that Vashj'ir is so bad. Because the zone is beautiful, the plot line is actually relatively well-done compared to the rest of the zones in Cata (where it's all victories and triumph all the time).

But 3D just doesn't work with WoW's systems. I mean, I don't think I've played a game with that style of 3D where it did work (because it's just super hard to do with the limitation of one screen). But it was just too painful.

I mentioned it already, but I first experienced Vashj'ir as a Mage. Which was fine (lol ranged) until they made CC a thing and it became super painful.

And then I did it as a DK, which is probably the least painful way to do it (ranged to get the mobs to you, melee them down, self-heals, and more ranged if they flee). I can't imagine how painful it would be for a class that was REALLY melee-oriented, because it was still painful on a DK.

Tbh, I wish they had done an iron boots scenario, and made it more of a landscape than a 3D environment. I'm not sure what the answer to swimming creatures would have been, but I'm sure they could have come up with a solid one.

But they were still in their LET'S GO 3D! mode that started in Wrath. Very happy that, in particular, has abated.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2014 12:34pm by idiggory
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#72 Jan 22 2014 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
that quest is probably my least favorite of all times
Whatever it was, that one in Storm Peaks, where you're circling (Thorim's throne?) on a drake and need to knock off the other riders. Only you're on your hunter, and it's all melee, and there's a minimum range for your bow.

Smiley: disappointed
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#73 Jan 22 2014 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Mazra wrote:
that quest is probably my least favorite of all times
Whatever it was, that one in Storm Peaks, where you're circling (Thorim's throne?) on a drake and need to knock off the other riders. Only you're on your hunter, and it's all melee, and there's a minimum range for your bow.

Smiley: disappointed


Didn't you guys have Raptor Strike and/or Mongoose Bite back then? Smiley: lol
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#74 Jan 22 2014 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Then they introduced aerial jousting in Cataclysm as part of the leveling chain...

Homeage aside, that quest is probably my least favorite of all times, including all the quests in Vashj'ir.


OMG I FORGOT THAT EXISTED. I must have blocked it out...

That may have been the most angry I've ever been playing this game...

Hunter rolls need on an amazing upgrade str two-handed weapon? Nah. Garrosh anything? Nah.

That quest.


I don't particularly like that quest but I never thought it to be that bad.

Maybe I'm just weird. Smiley: smile
#75 Jan 22 2014 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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I hate vehicles, I hate jousting, and I hate the 3D environments.

The dragon riding was bad enough. Then that monstrosity added a third thing I hate.

3D stuff just doesn't work when you can't use depth perception. I hate having to wildly move the camera around to try and understand where the mob is, particularly when using a movement-oriented class.

A zone like Vashj'ir was probably 100% acceptable on a Hunter or Warlock, since they didn't really need to play the range game, and they had pets keeping the mobs where they needed to be.

But for anyone who had to get up on top of the mob, or keep it at a distance (but by using CC and strafing), 3D is just rough.
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#76 Jan 22 2014 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
A zone like Vashj'ir was probably 100% acceptable on a Hunter or Warlock, since they didn't really need to play the range game, and they had pets keeping the mobs where they needed to be.
Why must you be so different from me all the time? Smiley: glare

I hated Vashj'ir on my Warlock, but loved it on my Warrior. The whole depth thing was off, and I had one heck of a time judging distance, especially in places like that starting kelp forest. Is that a big fish in the distance, or a little fish up close? Smiley: confused

Warrior was easier since there was little reason to judge distance, just get up close in their mug and click rend. None of this watching and trying to judge aggro distance with both you and a pet in 3D space.
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