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Big changes for druidsFollow

#77 Jan 18 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Brisin wrote:
It may be just me, but if you are a Resto Druid and dont talented into it, you are doing it wrong.


For heroics, definitely.

For raids, it's really overkill sometimes.
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#78 Jan 18 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Brisin wrote:
It may be just me, but if you are a Resto Druid and dont talented into it, you are doing it wrong.


For heroics, definitely.

For raids, it's really overkill sometimes.

Personal experience, its required in 10 man.
25 man, you are mostly correct. Though I still think its better than other talents you could spec into.
#79 Jan 18 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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The moment someone else in the group has dispel, you don't need the talent. Sure, things happen and it might save someone, but if you're constantly rolling with another dispeller, you'd be better off putting that point into more mana efficiency or such.

Just rephrasing what EJ says.
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#80 Jan 18 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
The moment someone else in the group has dispel, you don't need the talent. Sure, things happen and it might save someone, but if you're constantly rolling with another dispeller, you'd be better off putting that point into more mana efficiency or such.

Just rephrasing what EJ says.

I`m not the holder of the truth or anything, but I really see it as required for 10man raids.
Even more if you are running with only 2 healers. You cant have a dedicated healer cleansing 10 peoples.
Besides, EJ usually is about hardcore running and people who dont make mistakes, nobody dies, yada yada yada, where you need everything you can squeeze from your character because you have to be the first to down that heroic raid boss. Non hardcore is different. You better have redundancy, even more now that you can only ressurect 1 person per fight (in 10 man).
And, yes, I could drop that talent and get 1 point in Blessing of the Grove or maybe NS or 1 point in Perseverance or the last point in Furor or 1 point in Genesis. But, honestly, they are almost as effective as having that talent and not using the dispell.

Edited, Jan 18th 2011 5:47pm by Brisin
#81 Jan 18 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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Brisin wrote:
Mazra wrote:
The moment someone else in the group has dispel, you don't need the talent. Sure, things happen and it might save someone, but if you're constantly rolling with another dispeller, you'd be better off putting that point into more mana efficiency or such.

Just rephrasing what EJ says.

I`m not the holder of the truth or anything, but I really see it as required for 10man raids.
Even more if you are running with only 2 healers. You cant have a dedicated healer cleansing 10 peoples.
Besides, EJ usually is about hardcore running and people who dont make mistakes, nobody dies, yada yada yada, where you need everything you can squeeze from your character because you have to be the first to down that heroic raid boss. Non hardcore is different. You better have redundancy, even more now that you can only ressurect 1 person per fight (in 10 man).
And, yes, I could drop that talent and get 1 point in Blessing of the Grove or maybe NS or 1 point in Perseverance or the last point in Furor or 1 point in Genesis. But, honestly, they are almost as effective as having that talent and not using the dispell.


BotG is terrible and Genesis isn't that hot either; you can put the point to better use in the resto tree or y maxing Furor.

Regardless, there are only a few heroics that require defensive dispelling. So sure if you got H VP and had resto, blood, enhan, arc, SV as your comp it would be destined to a painful electric death storm unless the group fails at jumping. Since as you know you can simply jump at the end of the cast to dodge it, much like jumping to avoid the Quake in Stonecore.

I get the whole redundancy thing but if you do 10s and typically roll with dispellers or always do 25s then it is a free point for a resto spec.
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#82 Jan 18 2011 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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There you have it. Straight from Horse's mouth.

Get it? Smiley: lol

I'm so funneh.
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#83 Jan 19 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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BTW, to all Druid Healers out there:


http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110354-resto_cataclysm_release/p20/#post1845755


Quote:

The most recent hotfixes (here) have this change listed:

*Rejuvenation now consumes 16% of base mana, down from 26%, but still requires 26% of base mana in order to be cast.


This should prove interesting in tonight`s Ominitron Defense attempt. We got to 1% last week, should kill him tonight. Magmatron will be my ****** now.
#84 Jan 19 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
Brisin wrote:
Mazra wrote:
The moment someone else in the group has dispel, you don't need the talent. Sure, things happen and it might save someone, but if you're constantly rolling with another dispeller, you'd be better off putting that point into more mana efficiency or such.

Just rephrasing what EJ says.

I`m not the holder of the truth or anything, but I really see it as required for 10man raids.
Even more if you are running with only 2 healers. You cant have a dedicated healer cleansing 10 peoples.
Besides, EJ usually is about hardcore running and people who dont make mistakes, nobody dies, yada yada yada, where you need everything you can squeeze from your character because you have to be the first to down that heroic raid boss. Non hardcore is different. You better have redundancy, even more now that you can only ressurect 1 person per fight (in 10 man).
And, yes, I could drop that talent and get 1 point in Blessing of the Grove or maybe NS or 1 point in Perseverance or the last point in Furor or 1 point in Genesis. But, honestly, they are almost as effective as having that talent and not using the dispell.


BotG is terrible and Genesis isn't that hot either; you can put the point to better use in the resto tree or y maxing Furor.

Regardless, there are only a few heroics that require defensive dispelling. So sure if you got H VP and had resto, blood, enhan, arc, SV as your comp it would be destined to a painful electric death storm unless the group fails at jumping. Since as you know you can simply jump at the end of the cast to dodge it, much like jumping to avoid the Quake in Stonecore.

I get the whole redundancy thing but if you do 10s and typically roll with dispellers or always do 25s then it is a free point for a resto spec.


I understand yours and Mazra`s point. I just dont agree, because of my experience with PUGs and my guild carrying people through 25mans. In a perfect world, I wouldnt need that talent point there, true. But just yesterday, we wiped 2 times in the trash pull to Magmaw before I started to help dispelling people. So, you see, unfortunatelly, my guild needs that, even though we were running with 6 healers (3 pallys, 2 shamans and 1 druid(me)).

About the talent, right now, for the bosses we are doing, I dont need more mana, so I left Furor out of my talent Tree and got Genesis. I`m still changing and trying some stuff around. I removed Swift Rejuvenation, since I wasnt using as much Rejuv as I was used too, but I`ll get it back, since Rejuv is now costing almost half of what was costing.

I still see Efflorescence as a usefull tool, even more on 10mans. Gift of the Earthmother is good, Nature`s ward is meh saved for some fights, NS is useless right now, Perseverance and Blessing of the Grove are kinda meh too.
#85 Jan 20 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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The mathy people have done some stuff that suggests 2/3 genesis may well be better than 2/3 furor for longer fights. The argument was along the lines of maximizing the amount of healing you can do before you go OOM and such.
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#86 Jan 20 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Well, my 10 man raid went back to Ominitron and we killed him with 2 attempts. Would be one if the tank didnt got a wow error message and got disloged. After that we went to Halfus. First time there, we got a 5 minutes break to watch a youtube video and read on strategy.
First pull, 10 seconds wipe. Holy ****, lots of damages. After some tries, we succesfully got the pull. After that, the run was a breeze, but he enraged and we wiped. We were trying killing 3 drakes and we got him to 15% before he enraged. We got back, tried 2 drakes, got to 5%. We went back one last time, I respecced to get some damage bonus, hit from spirit and all that, and after the second drake was down I went to dps. We got him down.

Anyway, I said all that because I actually have only one thing to say: Being able to cast rejuvenation and actually make use of Mastery is wonderfull. WG + Rejuv with 0.5 GCD made me a happy and waaaay better healer. And that fix before they change OoC not proccing made me go back to almost infinite mana. I even innervated the pally healer, though I used my spirit trinket twice and we had a Shaman doing Mana Tide.
#87 Jan 20 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
Out of curiosity, did you guys watch the tank spot video or one from somewhere else? Aliena says pretty much right at the beginning that you should release all three drakes plus the drakelings over the course of the fight. My raid group hasn't even attempted the fight yet, so I can't comment on how difficult it is, but I do remember that tid bit from the video.
#88 Jan 20 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Out of curiosity, did you guys watch the tank spot video or one from somewhere else? Aliena says pretty much right at the beginning that you should release all three drakes plus the drakelings over the course of the fight. My raid group hasn't even attempted the fight yet, so I can't comment on how difficult it is, but I do remember that tid bit from the video.

Tankspot. She says you have to release 2 + drakelings, wich makes 3 drakes. Proto drake is not "releaseable", he is always activated casting fireballs, therefore he doesnt enter the count.

Problem is, the drakes that you can activate are random each week. This time, we couldnt activate the drakelings. So, we had the proto-drake (that is unkillable and dont count), the time drake and the other one drake that they also had, forgot the name, the second one by the right.

Since we didnt had the drakelings, to kill 3 drakes we would actually have to activate a third drake. One of the attempts we tried this, but we just hadnt enough dps/time to focus on the boss after that. So, we activated the time drake and the second one on the right and went on to kill the boss after that. We killed him just as he enraged and killed one of the tanks.
#89 Jan 20 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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We've killed Halfus twice now in our first two weeks of raiding 25s. Whether you release the drakes or not, Halfus and his proto-dragon get their extra abilities. Releasing the drakes makes those abilities more manageable at the cost of having to tank the drake (or DPS the whelps).

There can be a lot of raid damage if people like to stand in the little red circles that appear on the ground right before a fireball hits. Also, you will probably wipe if your melee sucks at interrupting Shadow Nova.
#90 Jan 20 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
Oh wow, I didn't know it was random. That could definitely make things tricky, thanks for the heads up!
#91 Jan 20 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
My guild has beaten Halfus 5-6 times (2 ten mans a week some weeks) and each time we killed 2 of the 3 drakes. I don't think it is really possible to kill all three and still beat the enrage timer unless you heavily outgear the encounter. We found leaving the Mortal Strike dragon up was the easiest (when we have him) as once the other drakes are down, the encounter comes down to a simple, uncomplicated tank swap.

#92 Jan 20 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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In 25 man if we have the welps, we just let the tanks take them. Other then that we ignore them, all dps is always single target rotations. If we don't have the whelps we still release all three drakes, but we usually tank one for the whole fight and only kill two. You need to have good shields and hots on the add tank during the stuns in the last phase or he'll die, but as long as you keep that in mind it's pretty manageable. It's preferable to the boss having it's abilities unmitigated.

Healing 25 man, I pop tree at the start of the fight, put full lifebloom on three tanks, and do my best to keep all three rolling until the drakes are dead.

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 5:20pm by Xsarus
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#93 Jan 25 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Ugh, anyone know of a good AOE rotation for Bears? I get the whole Lacerate and Mangle spread concept, but in reality, my Tab-key hates me and Blizzard too.

Probably my negativity towards my class manifesting itself as bad karma.

Let's play I have to control five mobs, Berserk is on CD and I have limited time (as in: 1-2 GCD) before the DPS starts their AOE rotation.

Here's what I've learned so far:

1) Thorns on
2) Enrage
3) Barkskin/Survival Instincts
4) Thrash
5) Swipe
6) Maul

Repeat from 4 until win.

Thrash and Swipe alone won't hold aggro on crap, unless the DPS is all "/assist rulez yeah!" so I have to spread out some Mauls. With Thrash up constantly, Maul does get the bonus, so if I can get every mob hit by it, I'll be secure, mostly.

My issue is Tab and the randomness of Maul's secondary hit. I don't know what I've ever done to **** off the RNG, but it's been hating me since as far back as I can remember. Whether it's getting hit three times in a row on Paletress, rolling 1 on a piece of loot, rolling 100 and losing to a ninja, or Tab select always targeting something I already hit, or something 100+ yards away, RNG just seems to enjoy ******* me over.

So, really, Lacerate and Mangle spread is our AOE? That's it? And it's getting axed in the next patch?

Ace?
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#94 Jan 25 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can try a good nameplate add-on like TidyPlates, I think there'sa threat meter you can put on the mobs with it. Then make a mouseover macro for Mangle/Lacerate/Maul so you won't be quite as dependent on the seemingly random nature of tab-targeting. That said, I'm only tanking on my druid with +3/5 guild runs with a guild healer. Otherwise I queue as kitty DPS. Much more fun.
#95 Jan 25 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
I'm actually a big fan of TidyPlates+ThreatPlates now. Tidyplates looks clean and awesome, and threatplates does cool things to them to make it easier to get the problem children back in line; when you're tanking, every target you have aggro on shrinks to a little green plate. If you're starting to lose aggro (the equivalent of the "Yellow aura" on the default plates), it grows to normal size, and I think changes to an orange color. If you lose aggro entirely, the plate grows to oversized and gets red ZOMGWARNINGDANGERWILLROBINSON marks around it.

Way easier in packs than trying to watch the red/yellow auras.

Edit: Oh and if you're dps, it's the inverse. No aggro is green and small, if you have aggro it turns huge and red so it's easy to identify and either avoid or use a threat reducer on it.

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 1:48pm by Norellicus
#96 Jan 25 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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Tidy/threat plates make it easier.

Also mark a kill order, well at least a Skull. I do it even when I don't use CC. Plus then I don't feel bad about letting DPS die for attacking the wrong mob.
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#97 Jan 25 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Using a nameplate addon already, but when you've got 5+ mobs clumped up in front of you, targeting something manually turns into a pain, especially with colorful spell animations going off all around you. I'm using a custom addon that essentially just makes the default plates prettier. It's easy for me to spot when a mob is about to lose aggro, so that's not the issue. The issue is finding my cursor and being able to click that mob before it turns around and takes a bite out of my dear mDPS.

Will have to make a mouseover macro for my attacks as well, I suppose.

Ugh, it feels so clunky compared to my Paladin. Wish they'd at least up the threat on Thrash or Swipe a little. Just enough to make it not useless unless you've got Vengeance up and running.

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 10:56pm by Mazra
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#98 Jan 26 2011 at 2:58 AM Rating: Good
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I'm really completely over Druid healing. It makes me sad, considering I loved it up until RJ/WG spam in Wrath, at which point it became tolerable (I mostly did 10 mans and couldn't really get away with that), but I can't take this nonsense of having to stand there knowing what needs to be done and completely unable to do it. Yo-yoing RJ mana cost back and forth isn't going to help me have as much fun as leveling my Paladin would.

Hopefully they'll either come through before throwing 4.0.6 out there, or find some way to fix Druids for 4.1. There is literally nothing fun about watching health bars that need to be filled while having zero ability to do so without blowing through all my mana. Until I overgear the encounter, that is.

There's just no middle ground.
#99 Jan 26 2011 at 3:15 AM Rating: Good
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Not a fan of the new healing style either, as I'm sure most people have gathered by now.

Feels like ice skating uphill. You're constantly falling behind and all you can hope for is that the DPS kills the boss before you run out of mana or they run out of health.

As a healer, I feel more like I'm delaying their death rather than preventing it. It's very unrewarding, to be honest.
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#100 Jan 26 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
I'm actually quite enjoying healing now. My gear is a bit better and I have learnt a bit from our guild resto. One of the big tips that has made a big difference (which I should have always been doing) was becoming more aware of my OOC procs - it happens quite a lot with lifebloom rolling. Using these procs on a quick regrowth on the lowest DPS makes a massive difference in being able to do some extra healing when needed without blowing my mana pool. Liberal use of swiftmend where you get use of the efflorescence & regular Wild Growth are also pretty efficient.

When things go bad though, mana disappears incredibly fast - but then that is usually when someone else has stuffed up (pulled agro, missed and interrupt, stood in fire etc.). WotLK was stupid easy for healing - I used to challenge myself by seeing if I could heal a whole heroic with just rejuv - and raid healing with the constant rejuv & WG spam was just mind-numbing. Trying to hold up your share of the healing in raids while still managing your mana is much more interesting.

#101 Jan 27 2011 at 3:53 AM Rating: Good
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Friar RareBeast wrote:
Trying to hold up your share of the healing in raids while still managing your mana is much more interesting.


Oh, absolutely. They're on the right track, it's just not quite where it needs to be. 90% of the time in LK, we ran me and two shaman for raids, and that just literally doesn't work anymore - too much time is spent with us staring at low health bars that literally need to be brought back up and no tools to get them there.

It's not that I want to heal through stupidity, I just want to heal through what they're telling me to heal through. We're not a hardcore guild, but we would be far better off with a priest/pally (especially as we get better gear) who has the necessary tools to deal with panic situations.
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