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About Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool UsersSep 9th, 2005 at 6:53 AM by Haggan

From Square-Enix: Recently it has come to our attention that an unauthorized third-party software tool was made available to the public. This tool allows players to change their job from anywhere in Vana'diel. In response to this, an emergency maintenance was carried out on Sep. 4 13:00 to 16:00 (PDT) to prevent further use of this tool within FINAL FANTASY XI. As a result of an ongoing investigation, it has been determined that over 600 accounts will be either suspended or terminated for the malicious and intentional use of this third-party tool. We would like to take this time to remind our players that the use of any third-party tools to change or modify the game in any way is strictly prohibited in the PlayOnline environment. We will continue to take any necessary actions against those individuals that we have confirmed to have used such tools. Please note that by using these third-party tools, the consequences may extend beyond action being taken against your account. Some tools may cause character information to be altered, erased, or personal information to be leaked to unwanted third parties. If you come across a third-party tool over the internet, we ask that you please refrain from the download of such a tool, no matter how minor it may appear to be. We thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this matter.

Tags: FinalFantasyXI, News

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Dont attack. -_-

# Sep 10 2005 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent

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Okay first off.. this really has nothing to do with the windower. You guys should leave it alone. This was a huge cheat and I appluad SE on stopping it.

As for the windower.. the only real reason against using it is the fact it's 3rd party software. Otherwise it is a usefull tool to force XI into a window. Windowed mode should of been put in the game in the first place.

Please name ONE MMO or game that forces Fullscreen. I bet you can only come up with enough to count on one hand compared to all the games that let you window them. Forcing fullscreen doesn't stop cheating or botting. Those programs inject themselves into the game before it even has a chance to go fullscreen. Fullscreen is pointless, frustrating, and a waste of time on SE's part. It doesn't stop anything.

People who use the windower aren't going to ruin your gaming experience. People who DON'T use it ruin my gaming experience more then those who do.

Example? Person is forming a party for XXX mission. But wait! He doesnt know what to do now so he has to look it up. So what does he do? He tells the party he'll be back in 30 minutes because he has to log all the way out, look it up on the web, and then log back in. There goes our chances at doing that mission.

Another example? We're exping and our healer is doing a fine job. Thf goes out to pull and here he comes with the mob.. we start fighting and wait a minute.. our healer is missing. That's right, they got kicked off the game because some popup on thier pc kicked XI out of fullscreen and disconnected her. Now we die.

I dont use the windower myself since I have two computers. But don't attack people who DO use it. They're most likely not using it to cheat. They're using it to play the game.

RE: Dont attack. -_-

# Sep 11 2005 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

As for the windower.. the only real reason against using it is the fact it's 3rd party software. Otherwise it is a usefull tool to force XI into a window. Windowed mode should of been put in the game in the first place.

Please name ONE MMO or game that forces Fullscreen. I bet you can only come up with enough to count on one hand compared to all the games that let you window them.

Regardless if it should have been put into the game, it wasn't. If people don't like it they are more than welcome to cancel thier account and move on.

RE: Dont attack. -_-

# Sep 10 2005 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good

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You hit the nail right on the head. Sometimes people don't have a printer handy to make a copy of what to do on a mission.

And yes, I have had that happen before. Avast pops up, virus found etc, or updating and suddenly fullscreen is forced off and FFXI crashes. It takes me another 5 mins to log back in and load the screen, and by that time the party is like, "WHM is back"

Turn off antivirus? Sure, open myself to attacks and whatnot, sure, why not.

I'm not here to support, or to bomb the windower itself. I'm saying that the functions it provides are something that should have been thought about before FFXI was shipped.

I wholeheartedly applaud SE for banning the accounts that used the instant job changer, or the dungeon warper, or any other third party software.

I'm not entirely certain, but I believe SE modified thier EULA to include "programs or scripts" that make a character do things when no one is at the computer. Ie: bots and so forth.

If anyone is willing to check the EULA see if it says all third party programs and/or bot programs. I can't remember...

And the guide book and atlas books can run out of date very quickly. I still have the spring 2004 version of the FFXI guide book, and it's way out of date already. This is why we check on up to date sites like Alla when we're still in the game.

RE: Dont attack. -_-

# Sep 11 2005 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent

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IDK, personally i would be amused of SE actually released a hack/windower (under a hacker alias on an unasociated site to themselves) and include in it a worm to tell them who you are. Would probly be unethical for them to ban people for useing a program they planted on the web to catch them... But i would really enjoy the outrage of many when their accounts are destroyed for useing a 3rd pty program. ^_^

(remember, a windower can probly get your personal information 0_0)

RE: Dont attack. -_-

# Sep 11 2005 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent

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ha.
i think i would find that pretty damn funny too.

i also think that if people are going to be unethical enough to use bots/hacks then square should definately fight fire with fire.

in regards to the bans and suspentions, im on SE's side. and ***** anyone who thinks otherwise.

^.^

RE: Dont attack. -_-

# Sep 11 2005 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent

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/clap

I agree wholeheartedly.

PS2 and computer

# Sep 10 2005 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent

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I use both a PS2 and a computer to play the game. I play on my PS2 all the time and serf Alla when im waiting for a party or if someone is afk. or i use my coputer to transfer stuff between my mules and main character. I know there are a lot of you out there that have a PS2 and computer. and i know some only use a computer. But the truth is if your using windower while your in a party expect to get booted because you should be playing the game and not doing anything else. While in an active party i do nothing else. I sure would hope you do the same.

about the windower and cheating

# Sep 10 2005 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent

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I feel the need to clarify some things about the windower and cheating.

First point:

Quote:

I think windower should be sold WITH the pc version.

Quote:

Ignoring the fact that Windower is a convenience to many people and not much of a hindrance at all (sans plugins) is probably Square-Enix's way of saying "damn... we didn't think of that... and since we didn't, you don't get to have it."

They made it so that you can't alt-tab the game or make it a window to prevent cheating. The game is not faulty or whatnot, it was made on purpose.
Windows-based programs are event driven. When you click a button, move a window, etc. a message is sent to the message queue. In our case, SE catches the message occuring when the game window loses focus and you get the "fullscreen lost" message.

About the game being fullscreen, it is again made on purpose. The parameters of the windows are set during DirectX initialization, SE coded it that way. Now the windower is able to override that init by its own, allowing the game to be windowed. And you don't have to play in a 800x600 window, just change the settings, doh.

Now concerning cheating programs... SE doesn't want us to window, alt-tab, minimize the game because it allows people to run any program after FFXI is loaded. Why? Those programs need a way to identify the game window to alter it. There are two ways of doing it I'm aware of:
1) By selecting an already running process, the 3rd party program needs to be executed after the game, thus SE not allowing to quit fullscreen.
2) By retrieving the window title, if you watch closely, you'll see that just before entering fullscreen, the window title is a random string of characters. SE made this so a 3rd party program executed before the game can't hook itself in the game.

I hope you see why SE doesn't want the windower. Now if someone is able to code a bot, a cheating program, etc. they sure can program a windower. People who aren't cheating use it for convenience but SE can't make distinction so they ban it plain and simple.

EDIT: hmm I never said SE was right, its their policy on the matter...

Edited, Sat Sep 10 17:38:26 2005

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 10 2005 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

I hope you see why SE doesn't want the windower. Now if someone is able to code a bot, a cheating program, etc. they sure can program a windower. People who aren't cheating use it for convenience but SE can't make distinction so they ban it plain and simple.

If they cannot make the distinction, they have no right to presume that anyone using a windower is guilty. Innocence until proven guilty is a central pillar of justice.

The fact that they choose to do otherwise is a right they have as a private entity, but it does not make the choice excusable.

If one can assume that any user that can program a bot or a cheating program can also program a windower, then what use is it to ban windowers? That only serves to punish the innocent while the guilty can get around the rule to begin with.

Edit: Corrected a grammatical error and a quote tag.

Raters: I'm aware that the Allakhazam post scoring system promotes comformity and that people most often base their scoring on opinion rather than on facts or a well formed argument (even one they don't agree with). But honestly, if you're going to rate someone down, at least have the decency to reply to whatever you disagree with.

Edited, Sat Sep 10 19:37:56 2005

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 11 2005 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent

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Actually no you dont have those rights! For one the game is not technically yours, its a user agreement. YOU agreed to not use 3rd party tools. Much like any contract that is binding. In the context of the contract (u agreed to at least once when installing ff) it was made very clear that the user is not to edit code, use 3rd pty tools, or sell gil for any kind of legal curency recognised anywhere in the world. Since you agreed to these terms of agreement the glorious mother corperation lets us use their program (as long as we pay them) as long as we follow said rules and guidelines.

As for the windower thing, yeah would be nice, but SE doesn't want it. If SE wanted it windowed im sure our JP masters would know how to make one 0_0. Our not agreeing with their POV does not change a thing. WE as players agreed, so like it or not, if you use a windower its your booty. The fact that a windower in itself is not a malicious program changes nothing.

If your serious about wanting a windower, try to get people around you to start a virtual petition. Sending letters to SE probly wont change a thing, but its more conductive than makeing up rights that u dont have.

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 11 2005 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

Actually no you dont have those rights!

I never claimed that I did. That's your insinuation. I said that the fact they don't give us that right is inexcusable.

The fact that a windower is not a malicious program does change something: That their TOS needs a lot of work.

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 11 2005 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent

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The rights coment was in ref to innocent til proven guilty thing. They do not need to make a distinction between windowers and hack programs cause they are 3rd pty programs.

If u want to run a windower thats your deal. From my limited understanding of programing and the entire s/r thing a windower would not change anything on the SE side. Doesnt change the fact that its a 3rd pty program. If you feel strongly enough about wanting a windower and not breaking the rules, u have to convince SE of your arguement. Til then its a mute point. The TOS will never change to allow any 3rd pty programs. Even non malicious programs.

(BTW who wants to bet someone could put a worm in to tell someone what your id is stored on your computer and the code you type in to get into your account? gotta love 3rd pty software -_^)

---edited for a BTW ^_^

Edited, Sun Sep 11 21:56:27 2005

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 11 2005 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good

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Quote:

If they cannot make the distinction, they have no right to presume that anyone using a windower is guilty. Innocence until proven guilty is a central pillar of justice.

Only for criminal law. The EULA is a contract between you (the end user) and SE (corporation), and as usual, corporations trample on your rights without even blinking.

-- Starfox

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 10 2005 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent

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For the few that choose to abuse windower, all it does it make it a tad easier to run bots and cheat, but any smart programer will find ways around that (its been done before). There has been cheating and botting before the windower was even made. To ban something because of potential abuse is alright if it was proven most windower users cheat. Why don't they install software to monitor everything you do while FF is loaded to make sure you aren't cheating while we're at it, I mean they expect you to focus all your attention in the game so why not run a script to eliminate everything else too (sarcasm if you can't detect that). Windower can be useful if you are stuck seeking for hours on end and heaven forbid you want to surf the web or check email with your $1000 machine. SE most likely does not want windower for the same reason they limit the game for PC users, for uniformity with PS2 players and in the future, XBOX360 players. But to lock your computer down is every unreasonable. In a FFXI session you could be seeking for longer than you get to XP. Thought I do not condone cheating I will face reality. there will always be cheaters in everything.

RE: about the windower and cheating

# Sep 10 2005 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent

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i agree with you and Rate up on that.

geez

# Sep 10 2005 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent

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The windower debate has been tossed back and forth so many times that it's a dead issue. Quite frankly, my computer is meant to be just that.. a PC. Which means that when I'm playing FF, I DON'T want it to act like a PS2. Getting DC'd everytime virus scan pops up isn't an efficient way to XP.

RE: geez

# Sep 12 2005 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent

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I see everyones point on the Windower situation, i too feel the same it is cheating and should not be used, however there are plusses to it, i am a programmer and and have a masters in Computer Science, windower does not effect SE in any way, everything is put into your screen, nothing and i mean nothing is transmitted to SE, now why i think Windower should be ok= lets say you work at home and your job is like 20+ hrs a day, and not much is going on. I could turn FFXI on and play and wait for something job related to come through, where as w/o windower i cant. Me i use to video cards with double moniters. But not everyone can afford that.

Good

# Sep 10 2005 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default

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I'm glad they did it. No matter how small or how big a change is, the game must be fair for everyone. I'm on Ps2 and I have a computer right beside it. If you kiddys can't get another computer or Ps2 then tough ****. Life isn't fair and its not supposed too. So just deal with the changes SE made and continue what you were doing, Enjoying FFXI.

RE: Good

# Sep 10 2005 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good

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Quote:

the game must be fair for everyone

Quote:

then tough sh*t. Life isn't fair and its not supposed to

Weee.

RE: Good

# Sep 10 2005 at 10:06 AM Rating: Default

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I will. With my windower. KTHXBAI.

To cheat or not to cheat

# Sep 10 2005 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good

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That is the question.

The problem with this particular "cheat", and the thing SE must have found insulting, is that it allowed you to enter a lvl capped area, change jobs, and override the lvl cap.

That made soloing around CoP capped areas as easy as it can be.

Soloing Heliodromos? No problem. Making it to the Spire of Vahzl destroying everything in your way? Any other day. Pso'Xja capped areas? {Too weak to be worthwhile}. The possibilities are endless.

Edit: Something similar to this cheat, but even more freak, happened to me two weeks ago.

Go to Mog-house, do a couple of things there (check plants, synth a bit...), exit to Lower Jeuno, cross the archway to the main area and... there's a mog there, floating. Click on it... it gives me same options as hired room moogle, not nomad moogle (everything but layout and storage).

Run around... AH, bla bla bla, go back... the mog is still there.

Zone in Rolanberry... there is the mog... more or less same distance from the zone than the distance it was from the door of the residential area in Lower Jeuno.

Zone in Jugner... same thing.

Zone in Davoi... yes, guessed it... same glitch.

Monastic Cavern... oops. A moogle in the Monastic Cavern!

GM call... no answer for three hours. After 1 hour of waiting in vain I decide to try something... What does a BLM 75 do in Monastic Cavern with infinite MP? You guessed it. I spent two hours of free orc slaughtering.

Log off, log in next morning, glitch was gone. A GM NEVER contacted me to discuss the issue.

Edited, Sat Sep 10 09:48:25 2005

third party tools

# Sep 10 2005 at 3:48 AM Rating: Default

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Fair enough. Rules are rules. However, not every third party tool is a "Cheat" tool. Mayny people as you know use windowers to avoid constant window crashes. Now if SE is unable to provide uninterrupted service (i.e. continuous gameplay without constant window terminations) but they continue to charge full price with a weak "sorry for the inconvenience," Are they not also in violation of the agreement? I mean, I agreed to the rules based on the fact that I believed SE could produce a bug free product. No big deal if you're level 2 and your connection drops when you're standing outside your moghouse, but if you're in the middle of a fight at level 70 and you disconnect, die, and de-level for 3.5k exp, it's different. Especially if you traded in your old gear already. Or worse yet, you finally got your test for the Maat fight and you get DCed in the middle of that fight. Windowers seem to help against this PRODUCER FLAW and thus cannot really be called cheating.

RE: third party tools

# Sep 10 2005 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent

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I agree completely. My USB joystick isn't in the best shape, and it occasionaly dies. Of course, that's a HUGE problem when I'm main healer in an exp party. For some reason, unplugging it and plugging it back in doesn't work in ffxi. The game never registers that it's back. But with the windower, it works fine. It can have all the little glitches it wants and it keeps working.

RE: third party tools

# Sep 10 2005 at 7:19 AM Rating: Decent

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Here here!

great thread

# Sep 10 2005 at 2:57 AM Rating: Decent

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lmao, hey, imma try and provide a link to an awesomely funny thread, or well the conversation between this guy and the GM is funny. check it out!

http://ffxi.archbell.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1666

if that dont provide a direct link, just go to the sight and check it out. oops, hey when u go to the thread, click on the GM Guy to see the GM and then on the GM Text to see the conversation. You may have to enlarge the pic to be able to see the chat clearly.

Edited, Sat Sep 10 04:04:47 2005

RE: great thread

# Sep 10 2005 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent

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Wow...that's pretty good XD Sadly, most GMs I've seen ever speak have unusual English. Once, one GM on Lakshmi was like:

Quote:

Report no needed. It have been taken care of.

but nobody dared to correct them =P It's kinda funny to read how literate the one in the link was. The player would have had a lot harder of a time figuring out what's going on with a GM that couldn't speak proper English....

RE: great thread

# Sep 10 2005 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent

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This conversation with the GM is hillarious O.o It's a must read. Thanks for posting the link.

You go Se

# Sep 10 2005 at 2:27 AM Rating: Default

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Yay maybe now they will beable to get rid of botters like the ones that sit on the pan server in the grotto off of Ghelspa outpost(sp) that sit there and they they smart because there bots do things like concently nod there head at someoen as they fish. Or the botters that camp the nms to help out gilsellers. I for one welcome the fact that 600 people will be eather ban or suspened for the use of cheats. Yes people programs that are NOT from SE that you use no matter if it is a windower program or one like this you are breaking the rules that SE has put out and there for if SE feels that your viloation of there ruled should get you ban or suspened then I am all for it. More power to SE on this one. If you can not play the game they way it was ment to play with out using something to make it easyer for you then you need to go to a diffrent game as this ione is not for you if you HAVE to cheat ie ythe people that clame they HAVE to use a windower. Guess what if your breaking the rules that SE put there then you deserve to be removed from the game it matters not if your getting booted ever 15 minutes for a program you have for work. If your working then you should not be playing FF11 and if your playing FF11 then why the heck are you working and why the heck would you even try doing things that would requier you to have to worry if your being booted while your at work????

RE: You go Se

# Sep 10 2005 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent

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I'm on call 24/7 jerkwad. I'm a domain administrator, which means I have to be ready to deal with issues at any time. When I'm at home sleeping, when I'm out at the club, anything. Whatever dude. The day Square bans around half their players is the day I don't want the game anymore.

RE: You go Se

# Sep 10 2005 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent

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well shoot if your on call 24/7 then why do you not get a ps2 and play your FF11 on it. then you would not have the problem of having to violate a user areement that you your self willingly agreed too. you NEVER were forced to agree to it but you did and there for using the program for any reason is in violation of something you your self said yes I will agree to abide by this rules and I agree NOT to break them unless I want the results of what happens to me if I get caught. I am sorry but you having to be on call 24/7 is not a valid excuse for vilotating something you willingly agreed too. But then again I guess with the way you started off with what you said just shows how mature you really are.

Edited, Sat Sep 10 11:35:08 2005

RE: You go Se

# Sep 10 2005 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent

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Well~ ... I never thought about playing FFXI on my PS2 mainly because sony thought it was a good idea to make a new slimline PS2 without a harddrive option :)

So, I play on my laptop and basically change it into a console when I play. I like playing on my laptop, and I don't want to go look for a different PS2 when I have a perfectly good one sitting right here, internet ready and willing, but without a harddrive.

RE: You go Se

# Sep 10 2005 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent

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Probably because some people don't want to buy a whole PS2+ a HDD+ FFXI. I personally already had a PS2 when it came out, so that's what I use.

As far as Windower goes, since I'm on PS2, I just use the computer sitting next to me. That can seem a little unfair to PC players, so why not let ALT-Tab work??? You said that it's cheating. Well, I'm sorry, but unless they're usuing the other plug-ins that can come with it, it is not cheating. They're not making tons and tons of gil off of it, they're just making it so they can open a browser or something else while playing, which is what *most* PC games allow.

On the actualy topic, I'm glad SE caught that program! Of course, it is true that it's their job to do that but.. they still deserve some compliments during all of the DDOS, or whatever the truth is, that is happening.

--tiroth

RE: You go Se

# Sep 10 2005 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent

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Well I have ps2 and I didnt buy ffxi for it cuz i find that its too expensive compared for pc ^^; anywho, instead I got a second computer, the strategy guide, and the atlas. My point is that I dont "need" a windower like other ppl, even if i only had one pc and no guide and/or atlas. I wouldnt get one, if I would need info for a quest i would look it up BEFORE logging on, thats the problem that I see, ppl who want to do the quest/mission and that only have one pc with no windower dont think to look it up before going online. so just to all of u who complain that u need windower to look up stuff for a quest, small suggestion to you for next time look it up before hand, that way u might not get caught by a gm for using a 3rd pt program.
just my 2 cents, do wat u will with it

RE: You go Se

# Sep 11 2005 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

Well I have ps2 and I didnt buy ffxi for it cuz i find that its too expensive compared for pc ^^;

Quote:

instead I got a second computer, the strategy guide, and the atlas

thats at least 10 times more expensive

WHM using windower

# Sep 10 2005 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent

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I use Windower, and I'm a WHM. Although I don;t use it for AIM, I use it to look up recipes when I synth, or to open a map I dont have yet. Or to look up things about NMs I might like to camp. if I'm in a party I don't change screens, and I keep my full attention on healing the party members.

Real WHMs know thier responsibility and dont feck around when in a party.

Honestly, I believe the windower is a good thing if you use it wisely. And you always have the option to delete the plugins if you choose not to use them. I like being able to alt-tab and look at a webpage while waiting for a party or whatever.

If you're worried about chatting on AIM, turn it off. I have 4 separate ICQ, MSN, AIM, and Yahoo accounts, and I keep them all off if I'm playing FFXI.

Know your limits... if you can't play without feeling like you have to chat with your l33t hax0r buddies from skool, don't play FFXI windowed.

Ultimately the choice is up to the player whether they want to "risk" thier account being banned and so forth for using a third-party program.

Oh, and as to the job changing bit... I had no idea a program like that existed out there :/ Maybe if SE thought about areas or towns that players might like to change jobs in *coughSelbinacough* Let's have some more nomad Moogles out there, eh? Or perhaps an item to summon a moogle bought with conquest points or something... walking from bastok to dunes because you have to change your job and walk back... bleh.

RE: WHM using windower

# Sep 10 2005 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent

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Damn skippy. Distances are too far in this game to have to go that far to change jobs.

As for being a "risk" to your account to use windower.... I think that's kind of a moot point. In my experience at least 2-3 people in every party I do uses windower. If you use that as a HIGHLY inaccurate statistical average, over half the people on Ifrit use Windower. I don't think square will ban them ^.^

I still don't know how windower came into all this, square never said a word about it.

How windower came into all this

# Sep 10 2005 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent

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Windower: See Third-Party Tool.
See also Lateral Thinking.

huh?

# Sep 10 2005 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent

Thief's Knife

15,054 posts

WTF does this have to do with the windower? Changing your job anywhere in the game is cheating plain and simple.

____________________________

Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:

Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

lol

# Sep 10 2005 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent

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46 posts

Well all i can say for Sony is that by banning 600 accounts that is 93600$ a year they are lossing, not to mention ppl who stop playing over that time and the friends of people who got banned leaving for other rpg for drastic measures like using a windower.

Edited, Sat Sep 10 01:52:05 2005

Se make one of your own!!!

# Sep 09 2005 at 10:47 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592270469824

82 posts

if Se has a problem with it why dont they make one. I mean if other epeople could do it I bet SE could. jesus it cant be that hard. And once again if u want it the forums wont help u got to flood them with emails and messeges.

RE: Se make one of your own!!!

# Sep 09 2005 at 11:16 PM Rating: Default

View User Forum

Anonymous

Have you tried to get SE to do anything? In my personal experience I've called SE for about a week straight about some billing problems. Kept on getting bounced around by people that couldn't do anything. They admitted that they can't really do anything to help me and I was assured that a superior would call back. Its been 8 months, I still have the reference number, its still "pending". Great job SE! So if you want something fixed in the game. . . you might have to buy the company.

RE: Se make one of your own!!!

# Sep 11 2005 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591852979977

7 posts

Hell SE wont fix anything. Once I had an issue where I D/Cd but for some odd reason the game still had me actually fully logged in like I was still there. MY char was standing in the middle of jeuno and did not disapear after the 30 seconds were up.

Well 2 hours later my char was still standing in jeuno and I was getting the same old "player already loged in please wait a couple minutes" message so I contacted a GM through the POL help desk.

I explained the problem to the GM and said "all you have to do is force D/C the char so I can log back in" Well he told me they dont have that ability and I was going to have to uninstall and reinstall FFXI to fix the problem.

Really now, that is OBVIOUSLY a server side issue and has nothing to do with my computer or with my copy of FFXI. What finally happened was after about 9 hours the char lagged out and finally was D/Cd from the game.

RE: Se make one of your own!!!

# Sep 10 2005 at 2:50 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591818866082

151 posts

Sheesh, at least u got a reply. a LS mate of mine has sent them emails upon mountains of emails on a mog house issue, to both tech support and others, and they dont even bother to answer.... but anyways, i dont care if u feel fit to use windower, i dont use it, but i can see the benefits of it. as far as changing jobs go tho, i have to go with SE on that one. Its a no no.

sorry, no

# Sep 09 2005 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1593363668531

Scholar

147 posts

sorry, no. but SE is absolutely worthless, and only fixes things when for some reason they feel it makes them look bad. they dont give a junk about what we think or feel.

windower

# Sep 09 2005 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591819713580

Scholar

78 posts

I agree that most third party software does hinder the game, but I have never seen how a windower without all the extra plugins can be a problem. As to all the people that think just cause you use windower means you have AIM or some other messenger up.......you probably couldn't be more wrong to be honest. Granted there are those who do keep it up, but any good player is going to turn it off when they get party.

I will admit I use windower. Why? Because I work on crafting a lot..and I am sure there are some out there that will agree that having to log to check a site for your next synth is just..the biggest pain in the world. Other than that...screeen is to small for me to work parties well anyway, so I just go full screen.

The next reason for why windower should be an allowed thing is...that some jobs..just dont get parties. You could spend a whole damn day looking for something..which means you also sit in front of the comp all that time. So..either SE makes the jobs so they can all be wanted equally..or just make windower allowed.

RE: windower

# Sep 10 2005 at 6:14 AM Rating: Default

GarudaRyuuko

Scholar

190 posts

Quote:

The next reason for why windower should be an allowed thing is...that some jobs..just dont get parties. You could spend a whole damn day looking for something..which means you also sit in front of the comp all that time.

The best way to give all jobs back their wanted status is to remove the TP nerf they put in a long while back. MNK's and DRG's just get no love anymore since raging fists, asuran fists, penta thrust, etc. don't generate the TP they used to. At the very least they could increase the TP gain, if not return it to full TP for each hit on a multi-hit ws.

edited to add the above quote for whoever rated me down, so you'd know I was responding to someone else post, in case the staggered position of my post wasn't enough of a clue. And ytf would someone rate me down for suggesting getting rid of the TP nerf?? :/

Edited, Tue Sep 13 03:01:07 2005

____________________________

FFXI
Garuda Server;
Mithra; 75war,thf,bst,rdm(retired), 70drg, 66rng,nin, 62mnk, 51pld, 42drk, 40cor, 37smn,sam,blm,whm,dnc,brd,sch,blu,pup
Taru; 32dnc, 30war, 26nin, 19mnk, 16thf, 16drk, 10whm, 10rng, 8bst, 8blm

If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?

windower aint the fault

# Sep 09 2005 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591812691941

56 posts

heh .. in all reality windower wont minimize when something pops up on the screan. now that they have banned this little program what about Fleetool and all the fisihing script programs that are out there

RE: windower aint the fault

# Sep 09 2005 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591817240520

68 posts

That's why I use it. FFXI without windower disconnects if my popup tries to steal focus. Let's face it, my job is more important than FFXI, this lets me keep both.

Windower != hacking to change jobs anywhere

# Sep 09 2005 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent

View User Forum

Anonymous

If you read this correctly, the problem is with people changing jobs anywhere they please, not the windower itself. As for SE doing a "good" job, I mean come on, you're giving them credit for something they SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAYS. I don't expect comendation when I show up to work on time or if I do my job correctly. I've played EQ2 off and on and they are much more interactive with their users and actually take user comments into consideration when patching. I'm not saying its perfect, but its definately better. If a WHM lets you die because he's busy talking on AIM, you'll die anyways when he's watching TV instead or going afk without telling anyone. Bad players are bad players, the windower is not an excuse.

RE: Windower != hacking to change jobs anywhere

# Sep 09 2005 at 6:48 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1594571053776

Scholar

99 posts

Thank you! I agree with that completely. Windowing is much more innocuous than some people make it out to be.

What's wrong with windower?

# Sep 09 2005 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591817240520

68 posts

I don't see why it's such a problem. I've played many different online rpgs, they all allow alt-tabbing, and it doesn't cause any more problems. I love the game, but FFXI has a more inflated economy than any other game I've played. (No I didn't play EQ)

I think windower should be sold WITH the pc version. I have a system tray notifier for my job's server status, and without windower I'd get punted every 15 minutes. I wouldn't play without it. I really don't see the harm. If you play crappy cause you're talking on aim, you'll get kicked from the party. You can't use it for nm hunting for gil selling that I can see. Overall there isn't a thing about it that I can see harming the gameplay experience. Notice this ban is not to enforce windower, only another 3rd party program that allows you to do something you normally can't.

Yes you can't use windower with ps2. So? You can't do anything else with it either. That's why I bought a computer and not a ps2. I see no reason to turn my computer into a console while I play.

RE: What's wrong with windower?

# Sep 09 2005 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591853650449

Scholar

375 posts

Your right... these games can be handled much better on a PC than a PS2. I would have bought a PC version in a hart beat insted of a PS2 version if I didn't originaly get it for SOCOM 2 (hence the name of my guy). But it was WAY cheaper to buy a PS2 + game for my wife insted of another PC. We play together & enjoy it (75nin & 75brd, fun combo^^). Only way I'll go PC is if my PS2 dies on me.

You do have a point on windower use, I guess I realy don't notice if/when anyone's using it. So it doesn't bug me even thou I can't use it. Just glad SEs keeping up on this crap they just stopped.

Response: Windower should not be allowed.

# Sep 09 2005 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1647216993653

View User Forum

279 posts

Here is a quote from earlier in response to allowing windowed gameplay for FFXI:

Gjeesterphlunnie wrote:

If people logged into AIM while playing, people would talk to their friends while playing.

Gjeester makes a great observation, and this is exactly what SE doesn't want to happen. For example, I personally would like to have voice chat with FFXI, but this 1up.com interview with Hiromichi Tanaka made me give up that hope, and for good reason:

Quote:

1UP: Will the 360 version support voice-chat? We sure hope not.

HT: No, it won't. The reason being is that we track player abuse through the chat logs, and if we removed the necessity of the chat log, it would be impossible to take action against abusive players.

Windowing FFXI allows for the use of communications outside of gameplay, which makes it tougher for SE to track the abuse.

This limits the communication outside of the game to three options:

1) Make a phone call to the person that you are organizing with,
2) Use the text message function on your cell phone,
3) or go somewhere to be with them in person.

SE can't stop this, but they can do whatever else they can to stop the violations.

In summary:

Windower = NO! <slap> <t>
In-Game Voice Chat = NO! <slap> <me>

Thanks for reading, and good luck in-game.

Edited, Fri Sep 9 18:16:48 2005

RE: Response: Windower should not be allowed.

# Sep 09 2005 at 7:27 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1592762552738

Scholar

217 posts

Quote:

This limits the communication outside of the game to three options:

1) Make a phone call to the person that you are organizing with,
2) Use the text message function on your cell phone,
3) or go somewhere to be with them in person.

Or just talk to them on AIM with a second computer, laptop or whatever, placed conveniently next to their PS2 or their PC. Your point is pretty invalid here. Besides, you could still easily use Teamspeak with a full-screen version of FF, so there's your voice chat. Ignoring the fact that Windower is a convenience to many people and not much of a hindrance at all (sans plugins) is probably Square-Enix's way of saying "damn... we didn't think of that... and since we didn't, you don't get to have it." I mean hell, look at how many things in-game were screwed with and changed before SE just left it alone because "they didn't think of it." (Drg/Sam, Nin/War tank to mention two)

RE: Response: Windower should not be allowed.

# Sep 09 2005 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1647216993653

View User Forum

279 posts

Well, good job for finding two things that I missed thinking of regarding out-of-game communication. /em shrugs. Two heads are better than one, yes? ;)

Irregardless, if you called on SE, they would tell you the same thing. Besides, other companies make full-screen games, and they don't even truly consider windowing as an option. Just because it's convenient doesn't mean it should be there.

My friends, please don't act like SE hasn't thought of it before. SE has been working to develop the game for years, and I'm certain this minor debate we are having ended in the result of a no-go long before Windower came out.

Edited, Fri Sep 9 22:14:09 2005

RE: Response: Windower should not be allowed.

# Sep 09 2005 at 10:02 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1592762552738

Scholar

217 posts

Eh, even so, I don't think it's all as threatening as some would like to make it seem. Remember that this is still Square's first attempt at a MMORPG.

RE: Response: Windower should not be allowed.

# Sep 10 2005 at 3:31 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1649636386575

Sage

88 posts

Yes, you may have a point -

But its really not about what ffxi players use the windower for, but what they COULD you it for - im sure the majority of us would use it purely for a convience thing, but there will always be those few who'll ruin it for everyone ^^

...

# Sep 09 2005 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591814690925

Scholar

73 posts

Did this prog give youy the option to homepoint after a job change like the legit methods do? If it did no wonder S-E nailed people for using it.

Seriouisly tho onsidering how **** S-E seems to be when it comes to third party progs makes you wonder why people even bother to waste the time to code them really.

Personally I could care less if they outlaw the windower I have my laptop within reach most of the time and as such don't even need it. I honestly don't see the harm in it tho if people just use it to say check this site for recipes when crafting etc.

PS2

# Sep 09 2005 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591853650449

Scholar

375 posts

I'm on PS2 meaning I can't download crap for FFXI other than the long up-dates.

Windowers or tools like this could only be fair if PCs & PS2s were separated by server.

If SE wants to do anything to help speed up the game for anyone then they should make it possible for a Rank10 to keep his Rank & Outposts and still work on missions for other nations. Rank10s should get that option because if someone has Rank10 in all 3 nations it means they put there time into the game & not $$$ into a hacker. Plus I doubt a Rank10 x3 would quit playing because he can't change his job anywhere or move around fast enough.

SE has alot of good ideas to help the game become more enjoyable & I'll bet we'll see those ideas getting used more as the game grows.

Probably Gilfinders doing it!

# Sep 09 2005 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592267423456

View User Forum

8 posts

It's probably Freaken Gilfinders using it to get to NM's faster.
F^ck!ng B@$tards

Yey!

# Sep 09 2005 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591814136036

Scholar

127 posts

Go, go SE! Never heard about that until now, but all cheaters shall die. ^_^

Although the Windower is a debatable issue...I have it, but hardly use it, as it automatically makes the FFXI window 800x600(bloody small for my monitor). That, and I never enable the other functions, such as TParty or BloodPace. I can definitely understand why SE and players would want to ban the Windower. Mind you, when I do use it, I'm not doing something important. ^_~

I /bow to SE for taking actions action people that hack and cheat. ^_^

Edited, Fri Sep 9 16:41:57 2005

A note about the windower.

# Sep 09 2005 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593363093642

57 posts

If FFXI could run in a window, people wouldn't be afraid to log into AIM while playing.
If people logged into AIM while playing, people would talk to their friends while playing.
If people talked to their friends while playing, people would constantly be going from full screen to minimize while playing.
If people went from full screen to minimize while playing, battles and XP parties in general would suck atleast ten times more.
Just think of that please.

Ban the windower!

Edited, Fri Sep 9 16:30:06 2005

RE: A note about the windower.

# Sep 09 2005 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591812122149

Scholar

34 posts

I bought a second video card and monitor just so I could pull up a web page on one and fire up FFXI on the other. I use the Vanadiel clock for Mozilla Fire fox on my second monitor too to watch boat schedules. If you know what you plan to do before you hop on, this method is nice.

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