Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow

This guy has some good ideas. If I could rate up I could. I hope you take his and my ideas into consideration. ^_^

"Okay, most of the big issues have already been pointed out.

1) BSTs using Leave with Aggressive pets has always cause problems.

2) The Binding of mobs has also proven a pain, though it can be much more easily avoided if you're actually paying attention to your surroundings.

3) Out-of-party AoE seems rather silly, as Bombs self-destructing or goblins dropping their bombs as been to known to take out passer-bys all too often.

4) While /blockaid can help prevent spike hate issues, people need to remember to turn it on. Thus, somewhere in the options this should become a permanet toggle like /anon. Furthermore, this should be split a subsequent /blockinvite so party/alliance invites can still be accepted while refusing outside aid.

5) Charmed party members should only be targetable by your party/alliance. Much as I enjoy killing Gil Sellers at Pallas, they won't hesitate to do the same.

6) Rework the aggro/link system.

6a) At present, a single aggressive mob will decide to attack a full alliance even if it's 10 levels below everyone. This speaks bounds about the lack of AI amongst the mob pool.

6b) Other factors such as the amount of mobs within its same family are around and the strength of what that alliance might be fighting should be taken into consideration. Nidhogg is a big nasty dragon. Why would the spiders want to be anywhere around it if trained?

6c) Intimidation relationships should be considered. Vermin are intimidated by lizards. Aggressive vermin should not attack a group while they are fighting lizard(s), if anything they should help the party for engaging their natural enemy, but for balance purposes, becoming non-aggressive works.

6d) Enhance or outright implement a "give up chase" system. Sound aggro mobs tend to express this trait the most amongst the current system, particularly crabs or crawlers after running over water. Create a "leash" based on the scale of the level difference between the mob and the player and a lack of activity by the player toward the mob in reference to the mob's spawn point. If the player's level is greater, the mob won't chase it as far. If the player's level is weaker, the mob will go a bit more out of its way, but will inevitably give up.

6e) Make sure mobs forget you if they do give up chase or can't act upon you after 5 minutes. I've abandoned worms in Kuftal Tunnel, only to run by them 45 minutes later and get aggroed (they're non-aggro, but I'd been picking on them for archery skill up).

6f) Sound aggro is presently the most dangerous type of aggro as it is based on a radius. I suggest this aggro be split further into two types: mobs with eyes and mobs without. Those with eyes, instead of immediately running for you, will turn to make visual verification. This range could be slightly shorter than the sound range itself, lending the chance of escape. Pure sound aggro, however, will adopt a form of "hot or cold" mentality. If you continue moving, they will give chase as you are constantly giving them a "hot" signal. Remain still, and you will go "cold". This system would nullify once the mob makes physical contact and the aforementioned "chase" or "leash" system would then come into play if the mob is not killed.

7) Add an option for a player to disable Call For Help entirely. This isn't quite MPK related, but it can lead to accidents due to lag instituted by more extreme MPK tactics.

8) Make scent mean something. Deodorizers are more or less NPC fodder for Alchemists. With an enhanced scent system, a player could give themselves an affect to smell like a particular mob family. This could either reduce aggro based on detection type, or eliminate linking altogether.

..and I think that about covers my ideas for the moment."

Edit: It didn't accept my quote so I have to edit it like this >.> He is the last post on the first page...

Edited, Thu Nov 3 21:08:17 2005 by CBytor

Anything strong enough to kill a regular mob in a zone shouldnt be strong enough to kill a player prepared to fight an HNM in that zone. ><

I don't foresee Alliances dropping from a 50hp/tick AoE. If they do, you should consider camping JeJ instead. ><

All of these except #5 are not my ideas, I just posted the others just because I agree and my reasons behind it

MOB ISSUESS
===========
#1

SUGGESTION: Zoned mobs should not link/aggro untill they're back to their original spawn point

REASON: Gil Sellers and other players usually train coffer mobs @ Serket and this gets out of control and very annoying to any level 30 camping in the citadel. Players that zone Corses for Tiamat also is a porblem, since I hate running in just to get aggro by these freaks.

#2

SUGGESTION: Bound mobs should not aggro anyone without hate.

REASON: Makes no sense to me why a mob would do this in the first place, as well as an easy shot for anyone with Shadowbind/Bind to MPK @ HNMs as well as gain links

#3

SUGGESTION: If a mob becomes unclaimed, then claimed by another person it should loose all hate on the first person and go after the other person.

REASON: Gil sellers use this tatic a lot, they'll just voke it or w/e and wait for whoever got claim first to wipe.

#4

SUGGESTION: Make HNMs forced pops

REASON: HNMs are a major issue, at first the 21-24 hour spawn was okay due to the low amount of players that actually could fight them, but now with more and more people 75 it doesn't work out for many reasons: drama, fights, mpk, hate, etc. are caused by most Linkshells due to this, I do have an idea on a different system, but won't get into details on this topic.

#5

SUGGESTION: AoE/Beath attacks should only affect those in the party/allinace and those with hate.

REASON: Gil sellers use this to their advantage to MPK others for a mob, needs to be fixed.


PLAYER ISSUES
=============
(NOTE: I'm not sure how GMs do things, but these are my suggestions)

SUGGESTION: Calls need to be recorded on players that are being complained about and who made the call

REASON: Back in the summer, there was a gil seller LS on my server by the name "Flying" which were some of the biggest threats ever, due to them MPKing EXP PTs for a camp spot and HNMs, this went on for about 2-3 months before the GMs finally took action against them. So to me the best idea is to have GMs keep records on these people and if they get enough complaints about this person (depending on how serious the offense is) they'll be monitored and if keep going, suspension, and then after that, account removed.

Hope these ideas help

Edited, Thu Nov 3 21:14:39 2005 by Corrderio

Many have pointed out the root causes of many MPK situations is gil/item demand. By making HNM's all poped/instanced this would greatly help the situation..

Simply add a time limit on HNM's like that for re-entering dynamis.

Additionally I see no reason for sneak or invisible to drop when entering a zone. By allowing sneak to pass through to a new zone, crawlers nest, garliage citatel and the like would become safe for entry.

I also see no reason for sneak or deoderize to disappear when attacking a mob or being attacked by one. This would allow people engaged in combat to sucessfully flee from a dangerous situation when escape/teleport is not available.

Additionaly sneak/deoderize/invisible should allow for immidiate hate loss. If engaged with a gob for example a player could simply use a deoderizer, prism powder to lose hate. The same would apply to sneak and sound aggro mobs.

I completely agree with this. My suggestion is to remove the aggro/link activity for all players aside from the BST until the mob

regains full HP

and/or

returns to its original spawn point.

The aggro-pet problem is a MAJOR cause of grief between BSTs and other players in the game. As a BST, I'm often viewed with hostility and suspicion just for being around a party with an aggro pet, and I'm concerned that BSTs may be accused of MPK unjustly too often. It's easy to accidentally cause a major problem with a party by leaving a pet in the wrong spot, completely without malice. It's easy to get tired and accidentally kill someone.

Implementing an aggro modification on BST pets will benefit non-BSTs, BSTS, and GMs (time saved responding to calls about it).

Other suggestions:

If a player suddenly leaves the area (Warp, Escape, zone), or dies, all engaged mobs should behave as per a released BST pet, above. Until they return to original spawn points or regain full HP, they won't aggro/link.

Working on the claim system (i.e. mobs going yellow) may decrease the tendency for MPK. When a group or player 'steals' the claim of another group or player, the hate is not reset, and sometimes players wind up being pounded on by a purple mob. I've had this happen to me personally when a single Quadav in Beadeaux I had slept was Dia'ed, and every mob in the zone linked to it and killed me.There's also a greater incentive to MPK for the wronged party in the case of NMs or 'farmed' mobs.
The claim system has been a complaint of players for some time now, and while I'm sure there's a good reason why it's difficult to address, advances in that area may clear up some MPK problems. Players in a group who have just lost millions of gil due to a claim issue are likely to have a huge incentive for MPK, having no other recourse.

Notorious monsters shouldn't link. Conditions for snagging Cactrot Rapido might have to change, but it might decrease the lizard trains on Amemet.

I know that this has been mentioned a few times, but...

Suggestion: Bind/Shadowbind. A monster that is being bound and/or shadowbound should not be allowed to attack who ever is standing the closest if the said person has done nothing to generate hate.

I say this as a RDM who has solo'd Ose many a time. I have to constantally appologize to exp parties for being in the way, because the only safe spot for one to solo Ose is in the main camp.

Also, it's a great sight to see a SquareEnix representative here on the forums, where a decent player base post at, for suggestions from the consumers.

*edit* for spelling/grammer

Edited, Thu Nov 3 21:35:03 2005 by crimmie

Thx for listening our suggestions.
But i strongly feel that doing any of such changes will unbalanced the game dynamics.

So far i'm quite happy with the changes in the game etc like the new claiming NMs with provoke and such.

I feel that the only way to solve this is to set up harsher FFXI "jail" time for MPKers. Gilsellers mpkers need to be online to make gils, so suspending them for a longer period of time will greatly cutdown their profit-making. I felt that by doing this way will make them play fairly.

thank you.

I strongly agree with you Chopin that if the Gilsellers are not there to make the money it would help cut down the cost in AH. And a FFXI jail doesn't sound to bad maybe make a zone the looks like the jail in sandy and place them in cell and maybe let players go and see them. because if its knowed that they act/do that stuff people will not want to party with or help them making them want to change there ways and say sorry to the ones they hurt.

I am sorry if any of these points have already been brought out.

Anyways,

First of all... I fully agree with everybody in the Bind=> aggro issue. Monster that are bound should only aggro the person who has claimed it and not attack anybody who is next to it at random.
How to fix this? My suggestion is to make it so if the person who has casted bind/shadowbind walks away from the Monster xxx distance, bind/shadowbind would become useless and resisted if casted a second time. Oh.. don't forget to make it so that the monster viciously hunts down however casted bind/shadowbind on it if and only if he/she has walked out of that xxx distance.

Second, have SE GM / developers research and check on the most camped HNMs. To be sincere in most of the normal NMs... much MPK doesn't occur. After drawing a line in which HNMs are the most camped make it so 1 GM, dedicated solely to this task, will randomly select to visit one of these HNMs when it pops.

Third, in regards of the huge train zoning, which I have been victim to.. or the "I die on your party or you with a monster and expect it to kill you or your party.". If the mob just walks to its spawn point without aggroing, how many people would aggro everything and zone back in to finish xxx quest or fight? Too lazy.
Why not take only 1 part of this solution?
Make it so the mob will walk away some certain distance without being an aggro mob. If I bring a monster and die on a party, make so the monster will walk away from the party until the party is out of its aggro range and after that it will become again an aggro mob. Same system to be implemented on the zones. How would this help?
Well... as an example, people train crawlers out to the zone of Crawler nest, if it walks away just enough so the zone in area isnt in its aggro range, it would give the player the chance to cast sneak or invisible as needed. Meaning, the prepared player will survive and those who are not... are simply doomed.

- Reset hate on claim, i.e. Not getting thrashed by a mob you can't fight back against.

I agree with this just because that's how it should be in the first place.

- Bst pets shouldn't aggro til full health or return to spawn area.

Agree.

-Zoned mobs should behave as above (Left pets)

Three different situations need to be addressed with this:

1. An xp party gets links/adds and escapes from the dungeon.
2. Someone zones with a train of mobs.
3. Someone binds a mob next to a player and then warps away.

A hate reset and no aggro til return solves these problems, IF the mobs in a zoned train will not link if aggroed. Otherwise, the zone is kind of held hostage waiting for those mobs to get back to their spawn points.

I hate to see mob behavior changed, but unless there's another way to prevent the bind/warp mpk tactic, it seems necessary.

Title of post > Suggestions for changing the MPK system

So your saying, when making the game, you(SE) made a system to MPK people? I cant say that was very smart ^^;;

Maybe a better title would of "Suggestion for preventing MPK" >.>

Other then that, i have very little to add

when i played DAOC the monsters would return to their spawns before they would attack anyone, the one problem with this is that someone could technically take alot of the zone and train it to the begining.

Hi SE representative, thanks for valunig our opinions. This was a nice gesture. The community really needed SE to support their game by being more attentive to what players need/want.

Suggestion: GMs should just take a more active role in the FFXI. Police roam the streets in real life. Sometimes they aren't right there at the scene of the crime as it happens but they'll be there asap. I would feel a lot more safe if a GM were there for the spawn and duration of a fight of certain HNM.

Suggestion: I also wish that SE took more of a stance against MPK. I know more people getting suspsnded or banned because of something trivial as cussing in public or using windower than someone deliberately MPK.

Suggestion: If party/player/alliance has claim on a monster and wipes out, the monster should regen to 100% HP before anyone else can claim it.

Yes, using 3rd party programs and openly cussing at someone are things that players should not be doing but the focus of SE seems to be elsewhere when it comes to MPK.

I'm going to say no to the non-active monsters after zoning. If you zone mobs and those mobs turn around to kill someone. That is MPK, intentional or unintentional, and should be dealt with. This goes back to my point on SE having more of a zero-tolerance MPK policy.

If you are fighting Fafnir and PlayerA "accidentally" zones spiders and your alliance dies and the LS of PlayerA takes claim of Fafnir, is that really accidental?

The MPK issue is largely revolved around the HNM scene. Being MPK in exp party is not as severe as being MPK while having Fafnir at like 10%.

I didn't read through the whole forum to see if these ideas already have come up:

1: A mob shouldn't be able to attack someone outside of the party attacking it. One reason is that if a mob is purple to someone outside the party that has hate, the mob is able to attack that person, while he can't attack back. Another is that if a party has a powerleveler, the mob will attack the PL from the hate from cures. This would seem like a good thing since the mob does less damage to a high level PL, but it also means that as a tank, I get less skill ups for shield/parry. Also makes it so that noobs level up too easily and ruin parties at higher levels. Part of the charm of this game is that it's challenging. Most newer games can't say that. (I guess that's another issue besides MPKing, but I thought I'd mention it)

2: I know AoE has been mentioned, but I want to say that specifically the mandragoras sleep attack shouldn't affect parties outside of the one it's fighting. Places in Yhoator and Yhutunga are overcrowded, and getting slept is tough enough when it's just one mandy doing it.