I tend to think that ther person doing the MPK is the problem, not the mob. The mobs are under their programme mechanics and they aggro wherever they are has important contribution to the thrill of this game.
My suggestions are:
Establish the crime scene evidence
(a) MPK usually happens in specific areas under a definite condition of HNM or NM spawned. SE may develop a log programme to record activities during these moments without much difficulties. MPK usually results in a lot of mobs trained and a lot of players KOed. They are conditions to look for upon reviewing the log. I dont think its that difficult to do so. The GMs have been around for so long, I dont think they can monitor that many locations plus they need to response to player's call for help from time to time.
Make the punishment to the MPKer painful and unforgetful
(b) the jailing system of restraining a player from playing for a few days are not strong enough. Besides, its known gil sellers played and handled multi-accounts by multi-ppl, of course. With strong evidence from log, the punishment to the MPKer can be in the range:
(1) striped of the most valuable weapon or armor in his bags, storage and mog house O.O);; ; and/or
(2) pay a fine equal to certain percentage of/or all the gils at hand; and/or
(3) striped of all but 3 most valuable armors in his bags, storage and mog house; and/or
(4) convicted offender is down lvl by 5; and/or
(5) including any of the above, but spread to his whole user account, i.e. striped of the most valuable weapon or armor in his or his mules bags, storages and mog houses; and so on
(6) repeated offender should be banned from the game. SE has not publicized its serious action against wrong doers for a long time =P .
Spread the Action to the MPK Core
(c) All Linkshells (as MPK LS may have multiple LSs to shift around) hosting the offender(s) including their members will be forfeited of getting any drops from NM, HNM for a certain period of time. Everytime a LS member logs into equiping this LS will receive a system generated message.
(d) Player checking on their LS will automatically received the system generated warning on undesirable behaviour of this LS. This will be on for a longer period of time than (c).
My 2 cents, not to start a flame war.
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Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#278
Nov 03 2005 at 10:26 PM
Having never come across MPK in the game first hand I don't have too many suggestions.
However, after trying to camp for some O.Kote in Castle Ostrazja i can safely say that I think Squaresoft should be focusing on preventing the situations that cause MPK in the first place, like the constant camping of this NM by RMT participants. I'm sure there are a lot of players who get to this particular camp for Ochiudo's Kote (Mee Deggi the Punisher) and strongly consider resorting to MPK tatics to clear RMT traders from the area.
If you fail to take action in removing these players from your games there's always going to be a reason for people to consider MPK.
However, after trying to camp for some O.Kote in Castle Ostrazja i can safely say that I think Squaresoft should be focusing on preventing the situations that cause MPK in the first place, like the constant camping of this NM by RMT participants. I'm sure there are a lot of players who get to this particular camp for Ochiudo's Kote (Mee Deggi the Punisher) and strongly consider resorting to MPK tatics to clear RMT traders from the area.
If you fail to take action in removing these players from your games there's always going to be a reason for people to consider MPK.
#279
Nov 03 2005 at 10:30 PM
One suggestion that I haven't read so far in the first few pages and last few pages of this thread... (If it's a repeat, sorry)
Suggestion: If you're going to station GMs at certain NMs, it might be best to just drop them at the most popular ones (Mee Deggi, Serket, Roc, etc) but only based on the amount of complaints you get. It's not necessary to have a GM camping Simurgh every day if the MPK stops.
Suggestion: If you catch people MPKing, please do something about it right there on the spot! Those that are victims would love nothing more than to see a GM appear and warp the offender to jail immediately. It would really really enstill some more faith in the power of the GMs, and the image of them would go up dramatically. :) Esepcially if it's an offender who has done the same several times in other areas.
Suggestion: If you're going to station GMs at certain NMs, it might be best to just drop them at the most popular ones (Mee Deggi, Serket, Roc, etc) but only based on the amount of complaints you get. It's not necessary to have a GM camping Simurgh every day if the MPK stops.
Suggestion: If you catch people MPKing, please do something about it right there on the spot! Those that are victims would love nothing more than to see a GM appear and warp the offender to jail immediately. It would really really enstill some more faith in the power of the GMs, and the image of them would go up dramatically. :) Esepcially if it's an offender who has done the same several times in other areas.
#280
Nov 03 2005 at 10:32 PM
jmakovec wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
Quote:
Make the THF ability Flee automatically shed hate/aggro so they can't train mobs since the intent of the ability is to escape from things, not kite or train I assume. Or at least make it that after a certain distance is obtained betweent he mob and the PC, aggro is lost.
Acctually, in some scenarios, acctualyl quite a few end game, with Dynamis as an example, the point of flee IS to kite the monster around, if Flee shed hate, THF would essentialy loose their purpose in Dynamis, as they would no longer be able to allow a death pull to occur.
Well that's the players taking advantage of an ability for strategic purposes IMO. I doubt the ability was designed for kiting monsters. Otherwise why wouldn't they name the ability "Sprint" instead of "Flee" which to me means get the hell out of there.
Maybe modify my suggestion to lose aggro in regards to a group of links. The only reason I suggested it, is because they would be the only ones with the ability to survive Suggestion 1.
Edited, Thu Nov 3 15:59:20 2005 by jmakovec
How would that work in dynamis tho? some runs you have a nin/thf use flee on some pulls and kite them in a loop.
#281
Nov 03 2005 at 10:44 PM
Quote:
3. Make darn sure that monsters cannot go yellow during anytime a fight is ensuing by the people that legitaemly claimed the said monster in question.
Won't fix MPK but it'll shure fix alot of end-game drama BS
#282
Nov 03 2005 at 10:48 PM
Scholar
27 posts
If a mob that was zoned or was chasing someone should have a diffent color on there name like GREEN >>>>> to represent a mob going back to his position...
#283
Nov 03 2005 at 10:52 PM
16 posts
i actually call my idea from previous FF's, and standard turn-based RPG's.
make it like a zone. once someone attacks it, everyone in alliance is pulled in, eliminating any MPK problems. its either kill or be killed. if you win, win or lose you respawn in a certain area in the original zone alive or dead. sounds confusing, right?
ok, breakin it down.
ex: Behemoth's Dominion... KB pops, PLD vokes, everyone is pulled into another area, like a BC. nobody can cure you, nobody can do anything to you, because they can't see you. you're gone, as if you zoned. now, if you win, everyone is spawned back to F-7, which in Behemoth's Dominion is just at the mouth of a tunnel.
if you happen to lose, everyone respawns at that same area, only dead, and the HNM is up for grabs again, respawning where it should, at 100% hp.
now. for regular mobs and things in the EXP field.... i'm gonna create a scenario.
you and your party are fighting birds at Bibiki Bay. everything's going well, until you get a link. I, as the Red Mage, would end up sleeping the add and continuing with the previously engaged monster. now, as many of you know, Bibiki Bay is almost always cramped with 4-6 parties there, making exp monsters scarce. Another RNG comes along, and sees a bird. he quickly uses a ranged attack and runs back to camp. this causes the monster to wake up and attack me. great. so, claim from party A changed to party B should be direct. all hate should be wiped from the first group, and all hate should go to the first person who attacked the monster, who then sends it back to his party.
just a couple of suggestions.... =)
make it like a zone. once someone attacks it, everyone in alliance is pulled in, eliminating any MPK problems. its either kill or be killed. if you win, win or lose you respawn in a certain area in the original zone alive or dead. sounds confusing, right?
ok, breakin it down.
ex: Behemoth's Dominion... KB pops, PLD vokes, everyone is pulled into another area, like a BC. nobody can cure you, nobody can do anything to you, because they can't see you. you're gone, as if you zoned. now, if you win, everyone is spawned back to F-7, which in Behemoth's Dominion is just at the mouth of a tunnel.
if you happen to lose, everyone respawns at that same area, only dead, and the HNM is up for grabs again, respawning where it should, at 100% hp.
now. for regular mobs and things in the EXP field.... i'm gonna create a scenario.
you and your party are fighting birds at Bibiki Bay. everything's going well, until you get a link. I, as the Red Mage, would end up sleeping the add and continuing with the previously engaged monster. now, as many of you know, Bibiki Bay is almost always cramped with 4-6 parties there, making exp monsters scarce. Another RNG comes along, and sees a bird. he quickly uses a ranged attack and runs back to camp. this causes the monster to wake up and attack me. great. so, claim from party A changed to party B should be direct. all hate should be wiped from the first group, and all hate should go to the first person who attacked the monster, who then sends it back to his party.
just a couple of suggestions.... =)
#284
Nov 03 2005 at 10:58 PM
Would also like to add, the fact that you are here in person as an official representative for SE to the fanbase is outstanding. I believe it does mean alot to the players that SE is aknowledging problems and looking for a way to fix them, on a down to earth person to person way. Definantly a support booster.
#285
Nov 03 2005 at 11:01 PM
i think making NMs spawn all over the map like normal monsters would stop mpking a little and cut down NM camping....because if they spawn all over the map no one can really camp them and since no one can really camp them it will cut down mpking because finding one would be the luck of the draw -_^
#286
Nov 03 2005 at 11:02 PM
First, I'd change the aggro range of monsters like Robber Crabs. I mean, someone can easily claim one, and pull 70k or so (rough estamate) to the zone, where they come back and kill everyone. Yes, taking links of the game would be bad strategy-wise, but at least make it so that monsters don't suddenly lose hate and killing other people.
#287
Nov 03 2005 at 11:06 PM
1 post
ya could make a arrgo zone thats a bit larger than spawn zone, like say the spawn zone for a gob is 3x3 and the argo range of a gob is 1 then make a arrgo zone that is 5x5 and has the spawn insied so monsters can only arrgo when ppl are within the proper zone, i dont know your code for ffxi but mabey adding a statment like
"If (GobSpot Player = True) and (GobCheck <> TooWeak) and (PlayerInGobArrgoZone = True) then
GobArrgoPlayer = True
Else
GobArrgoPlayer = False
EndIF"
============
= =
= ++++++ =
= + + =
= ++++++ =
= =
============
sorry bout they gramer and fact that this was pretty crapily thought ou but its ben a long day and i cant thinks straight
hope this helps some
"If (GobSpot Player = True) and (GobCheck <> TooWeak) and (PlayerInGobArrgoZone = True) then
GobArrgoPlayer = True
Else
GobArrgoPlayer = False
EndIF"
============
= =
= ++++++ =
= + + =
= ++++++ =
= =
============
sorry bout they gramer and fact that this was pretty crapily thought ou but its ben a long day and i cant thinks straight
hope this helps some
#288
Nov 03 2005 at 11:16 PM
Ok it's time I put my few cents in. First off I would like to express that I read the first 30 or so comments, then realised this thread is 6 pages long and over 400 posts and stopped. So here are MY few cents.
FIRST AND FOREMOST
I want to express the importance of the SE representative to read every post. If it is necessary to put someone solely on the task of this then please do so, I feel its THAT important. I believe the biggest single problem that causes lack of trust between S-E and its subscribers is that we as a community feel it nearly impossible to interact with SE and feel that our comments and cries for help are being completely ignored. THANK YOU for this thread.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MY COMMENTS
1)suggesgionPlease fix it so that if a mob is BOUND it will not attack people directly next to it that it previously has no hate towards. Far too many times MPKers bind mobs next to people fighting NM's and then they get clobbered by mobs that are NON-AGGRO anyways.
2) suggesgionI like the system of impleementing a way to see where your GM call is in the que. I place a call and get "There are 34 GM calls before you". I then have no way of knowing the status of my call 10 minutes later and no way of knowing if the GM is soon coming. Am I now 15th in line?? 2nd?? still 28th?? I have no idea. Please fix this.
3) suggesgion ---THE BIGGIE--- For the love of the Godess Altana and all thats holy please do something about mijin gakure trains. If John Doe claims a beastman Notorious Monster mob with a very desireable drop rate for example some other person with ninja main will almost always then proceed to aggro 15-20 other beastmen (or more) in the immediate vicinity and run to where John Doe is fighting his mob for his pretty shiney treasure drop, and then detonate himself. With a giant KABOOM he loses his aggro and John Doe suddenly has 20 more beastmen linking on his Notorious Monster claim...... I'm sure you can see what the end result of this scenario is.
4) suggesgion- When people train many many mobs to a zone they will slowly walk back to their home point and link or aggro whatever is in their path back to their pop point. This is highly irritating and causes endless turmoil and pain. Perhaps if a person zones a mob and loses aggro this way the mob will then be sent back to its pop location immediately.
Example. John Doe's party is in garliage citadel upper lvl fighting bats and beetles when suddenly Jane Smith runs by with 2 magic pots and 3 fallen mages in trail. When Jane Smith finally zones to safety into Saremunglue Champlaign (horrible spelling) instead of the 2 pots and 3 fallen mages walking back to their home point and passing through John Does experience party, have them instaantly RE-POP at their pop point. This way they will NOT pass by innocents and they will not cause undue MPK deaths in John Does experience party.
Example 2. We shall call this *the gobbie bomber* scenario
John Doe is looking for fun at the expense of everybody gaining experience in Yhoater Jungle. John Doe is a high lvl White Mage. John doe proceeds to Teleport-Yhoat himself and then aggro as many goblins as he can then run them to the Yhoater/Yuhtunga Jungle line and zones. All hell breaks loose in the several experience partys and many deaths ensue. John Doe is a jackass and thinks this is funny, and proceeds to do this once every 5-10 minutes Real Life time for about half an hour straight or more. John Doe then after having his fun logs out before a GM call can be commpleted and is gone for the rest of the night. If the Goblin's RE-POPPED instead of waled back after John Doe zoned, all of this pain could have been avoided.
5) Suggesgion PLEASE fix the bug where during the course of a fight already claimed mobs can turn yellow and someone else can claim them. This is a bug and needs fixing. Nuff said.
6) Suggesgion Something similar to suggesgion number 4 but with Beastmaster's Pets after RELEASE.
Example. John Doe is a beastmaster looking for trouble in Crawler's Nest. He charm's a Doom Scorpion and then proceeds to run into the main room number one and RELEASE. I'm sure you see where this is going, please find a way to prevent this.
In closing, please consider what the puiblic has to say. I'm sure we can make this game much better than you alone could =^..^=
FIRST AND FOREMOST
I want to express the importance of the SE representative to read every post. If it is necessary to put someone solely on the task of this then please do so, I feel its THAT important. I believe the biggest single problem that causes lack of trust between S-E and its subscribers is that we as a community feel it nearly impossible to interact with SE and feel that our comments and cries for help are being completely ignored. THANK YOU for this thread.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MY COMMENTS
1)suggesgionPlease fix it so that if a mob is BOUND it will not attack people directly next to it that it previously has no hate towards. Far too many times MPKers bind mobs next to people fighting NM's and then they get clobbered by mobs that are NON-AGGRO anyways.
2) suggesgionI like the system of impleementing a way to see where your GM call is in the que. I place a call and get "There are 34 GM calls before you". I then have no way of knowing the status of my call 10 minutes later and no way of knowing if the GM is soon coming. Am I now 15th in line?? 2nd?? still 28th?? I have no idea. Please fix this.
3) suggesgion ---THE BIGGIE--- For the love of the Godess Altana and all thats holy please do something about mijin gakure trains. If John Doe claims a beastman Notorious Monster mob with a very desireable drop rate for example some other person with ninja main will almost always then proceed to aggro 15-20 other beastmen (or more) in the immediate vicinity and run to where John Doe is fighting his mob for his pretty shiney treasure drop, and then detonate himself. With a giant KABOOM he loses his aggro and John Doe suddenly has 20 more beastmen linking on his Notorious Monster claim...... I'm sure you can see what the end result of this scenario is.
4) suggesgion- When people train many many mobs to a zone they will slowly walk back to their home point and link or aggro whatever is in their path back to their pop point. This is highly irritating and causes endless turmoil and pain. Perhaps if a person zones a mob and loses aggro this way the mob will then be sent back to its pop location immediately.
Example. John Doe's party is in garliage citadel upper lvl fighting bats and beetles when suddenly Jane Smith runs by with 2 magic pots and 3 fallen mages in trail. When Jane Smith finally zones to safety into Saremunglue Champlaign (horrible spelling) instead of the 2 pots and 3 fallen mages walking back to their home point and passing through John Does experience party, have them instaantly RE-POP at their pop point. This way they will NOT pass by innocents and they will not cause undue MPK deaths in John Does experience party.
Example 2. We shall call this *the gobbie bomber* scenario
John Doe is looking for fun at the expense of everybody gaining experience in Yhoater Jungle. John Doe is a high lvl White Mage. John doe proceeds to Teleport-Yhoat himself and then aggro as many goblins as he can then run them to the Yhoater/Yuhtunga Jungle line and zones. All hell breaks loose in the several experience partys and many deaths ensue. John Doe is a jackass and thinks this is funny, and proceeds to do this once every 5-10 minutes Real Life time for about half an hour straight or more. John Doe then after having his fun logs out before a GM call can be commpleted and is gone for the rest of the night. If the Goblin's RE-POPPED instead of waled back after John Doe zoned, all of this pain could have been avoided.
5) Suggesgion PLEASE fix the bug where during the course of a fight already claimed mobs can turn yellow and someone else can claim them. This is a bug and needs fixing. Nuff said.
6) Suggesgion Something similar to suggesgion number 4 but with Beastmaster's Pets after RELEASE.
Example. John Doe is a beastmaster looking for trouble in Crawler's Nest. He charm's a Doom Scorpion and then proceeds to run into the main room number one and RELEASE. I'm sure you see where this is going, please find a way to prevent this.
In closing, please consider what the puiblic has to say. I'm sure we can make this game much better than you alone could =^..^=
[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
#289
Nov 03 2005 at 11:20 PM
Hello Akhore, many of us appreciate you coming here to hear our ideas on resolving MPK.
Many of the ideas I read are good ones, I have a few myself.
Bind/Shadowbind
This was suggested many times, this will help greatly. Both accidental and intentional occasions of this can cause a lot of unwanted grief. Binding player/party/alliance would be the subject of attack on a bound monster, not a passerby.
Link Claiming
This was suggested a lot also, very popular among Real Money Trade employee players at NM camps.
Quick Suggestion on that: Either adjust so that hit or miss, claiming a linked monster when another player/party is fighting a monster/NM will have hate on the claiming party. (that was probably suggested awhile back, I forget if it was.)
Now here are a few suggestions or ideas of mine.
Suggestion: Self destruction moves should only hit the claiming party. Suggested many times by people, but it should be stressed, but the obvious exception is Dynamis.
Suggestion: Change the GM policy to make a more flexible response to legitimate calls on MPK, ToS (Terms of Service) violations, RoC (Rules of Conduct) violations, anything. Harassment is another reason why people MPK - retaliation to being harassed. A lot of players don't have faith in GMs to make calls about harassment, they just take the law into their own hands. Just PLEASE, make it so we can have faith in our GMs!
Suggestion: Many people suggest about placing GMs at highly sought after NM pops to watch for MPK or grief tactics. A good idea but this will spread manpower too thin, especially when the spawns are closely synchronized on several servers, or pop windows overlap on server to server. This will horribly increase the workload on server resets.
However, one suggestion stood out as I read - have some of the players themselves act as lesser GMs. You wouldn't speed with a Police Car right near you witnessing the act happen, would you? This is a great idea in my opinion - a player conscripted police force.
Nobody in the right mind would attempt MPK with a Police Chocobo in the vicinity. Bleh, it's something new, likely won't work or be a popular idea. But in closing, only so many areas can be covered by GMs without destroying their response time to other calls.
All in all, whether my ideas seem rediculous or not, the real key here is to make it so that it is harder to MPK in the first place, and to make it known that if you MPK you will be severely punished swiftly.
Edited, Fri Nov 4 02:49:21 2005 by AsratheShady
Many of the ideas I read are good ones, I have a few myself.
Bind/Shadowbind
This was suggested many times, this will help greatly. Both accidental and intentional occasions of this can cause a lot of unwanted grief. Binding player/party/alliance would be the subject of attack on a bound monster, not a passerby.
Link Claiming
This was suggested a lot also, very popular among Real Money Trade employee players at NM camps.
Quick Suggestion on that: Either adjust so that hit or miss, claiming a linked monster when another player/party is fighting a monster/NM will have hate on the claiming party. (that was probably suggested awhile back, I forget if it was.)
Now here are a few suggestions or ideas of mine.
Suggestion: Self destruction moves should only hit the claiming party. Suggested many times by people, but it should be stressed, but the obvious exception is Dynamis.
Suggestion: Change the GM policy to make a more flexible response to legitimate calls on MPK, ToS (Terms of Service) violations, RoC (Rules of Conduct) violations, anything. Harassment is another reason why people MPK - retaliation to being harassed. A lot of players don't have faith in GMs to make calls about harassment, they just take the law into their own hands. Just PLEASE, make it so we can have faith in our GMs!
Suggestion: Many people suggest about placing GMs at highly sought after NM pops to watch for MPK or grief tactics. A good idea but this will spread manpower too thin, especially when the spawns are closely synchronized on several servers, or pop windows overlap on server to server. This will horribly increase the workload on server resets.
However, one suggestion stood out as I read - have some of the players themselves act as lesser GMs. You wouldn't speed with a Police Car right near you witnessing the act happen, would you? This is a great idea in my opinion - a player conscripted police force.
Nobody in the right mind would attempt MPK with a Police Chocobo in the vicinity. Bleh, it's something new, likely won't work or be a popular idea. But in closing, only so many areas can be covered by GMs without destroying their response time to other calls.
All in all, whether my ideas seem rediculous or not, the real key here is to make it so that it is harder to MPK in the first place, and to make it known that if you MPK you will be severely punished swiftly.
Edited, Fri Nov 4 02:49:21 2005 by AsratheShady
#290
Nov 03 2005 at 11:21 PM
13 posts
I would like to say something about binding a target. If u make Bind where it doesn't attack ppl close by and u fix AoEs to where it only affects the ppl engaged on it, then u first have to fix the claim/unclaim thing. Case in point: my ls claimed Bune, but we had to kite him a few times because he was destroying our tanks. It was alot of ppl standing around waiting to steal it if it went unclaimed. They were very close to him, and some of them died from AoEs and Bind. We also got MPKed 4 times by these ppl. Once was a failed attempt, the thf didn't make it to the top floor, lol. Now, if u are soloing Ose or some other NM like that, u are already doing something dangerous, and u shouldn't fight it around exp camps. There are 3 camps in Lab of Onzozo, u shouldn't justify fighting him in the so called "safe" spot. You are the one taking the risk, not the exp party. Another thing is if u are watching a NM/HNM fight, then be alert. Don't stand by Serket and get made when u get AoEd and poison. I've been lvling in GC a few times when Serket spawned and my pt stopped and waited until it died. My point to AoE's and Bind is fix the claim/unclaims first, then make Bind not attack surrounding ppl and AoEs party/alliance dmg only.
I like the idea of zoned mobs not aggro/link until they get back to their original spot, but what if someone wants to grab one for exp/farming purposes while they head back? Would the train pick back up or could u pick one off at a time? I think, if it's possible, what u could do is make mobs in the area of a NM not aggro/link for 1hr after a NM/HNM spawns. Maybe even make the non aggro/link period the time from spawn until HNMs berserk.
Also, alot of parties set their camps in front of zones and in pathways. I think they should make a Run Away! button that would automatically shout Run Away! or let ppl know u are zoning a mob(s) and it would pop up in your compass like the Call For Help! mobs do. I understand why ppl camp at the entrance like GC and Valley of Sorrows, but i don't understand why ppl camp in the pathways like Ule? Range and Boyahda Tree. Those places aren't particularly "safe" and are very prone to having returned zoned mobs. I don't think ppl should get in trouble for accidently zoning mobs (except Crawler's Nest, it's kinda silly to see a Soldier, Rumble, etc when u walk in, make the floors zones where mobs don't go past it). MPKing, as i know it, is a malicious act to kill other players. You are not trying to kill other ppl when u run away, just trying to save yourself. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
I like the idea of zoned mobs not aggro/link until they get back to their original spot, but what if someone wants to grab one for exp/farming purposes while they head back? Would the train pick back up or could u pick one off at a time? I think, if it's possible, what u could do is make mobs in the area of a NM not aggro/link for 1hr after a NM/HNM spawns. Maybe even make the non aggro/link period the time from spawn until HNMs berserk.
Also, alot of parties set their camps in front of zones and in pathways. I think they should make a Run Away! button that would automatically shout Run Away! or let ppl know u are zoning a mob(s) and it would pop up in your compass like the Call For Help! mobs do. I understand why ppl camp at the entrance like GC and Valley of Sorrows, but i don't understand why ppl camp in the pathways like Ule? Range and Boyahda Tree. Those places aren't particularly "safe" and are very prone to having returned zoned mobs. I don't think ppl should get in trouble for accidently zoning mobs (except Crawler's Nest, it's kinda silly to see a Soldier, Rumble, etc when u walk in, make the floors zones where mobs don't go past it). MPKing, as i know it, is a malicious act to kill other players. You are not trying to kill other ppl when u run away, just trying to save yourself. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
#291
Nov 03 2005 at 11:21 PM
Man is it really true GM's work with gil sellers, i read it some where in here but i couldnt find it again to quote it. If thats true maybe we need to fix corruption first.
#292
Nov 03 2005 at 11:25 PM
I haven't seen anyone mention this, so here I go.
Making mobs drop the good stuff more would make people camp the mobs less, and in turn, lessen the harshness of camping a 21-24 hour pop, for weeks, and then killing it, and not getting the freaking drop (while other linkshells sulk and find a way to hate on you for claiming said NM). This is one of the reasons MPK happen anyway. People want items hnm drop, but rarely, even get a chance to CLAIM the mob never the less ACTUALLY get the drop. So you camp NM the next day, and you don't get claim, then the next day, you get claim, and no drop, so you camp the next day, and lose claim, so you camp the next day, and get claim but no drop. Let's not even discuss HQ HNMs. LMAO. You get my point here? Who in their right mind has the time to dedicate themselves in this fashion EVERY SINGLE DAY? IMHO its a great way for SE to make more money from us, but its sooo annoying.
Example, Kraken Club. I couldn't tell you how many hours/days I've WAISTED camping this NM, for it to only drop shall shells, and to only add a few more names to my /blist. Someone recently tried to MPK us with wsnm there, but 3 of us killed it for 126 xp lol. Was a long fight needless to say.
I mean, who in their right mind WANTS to camp a NM for over a month, for 10 hours everyday, only to come up with NOTHING WORTHWHILE? I don't want to do this, but the game is designed to only drop a very, very low rate on some items, everyone wants. I'm not saying make the Kraken Club drop 70% of the time, but COME ON! At least 30% would get alot of the people camping the NM, out of there and doing something else with their time.
People MPK because the get ill. People MPK at NM spawns. I'd say 90% of MPK happen because of NM. Change NM where they actually drop the items people are camping them for, and show us that the rare drops aren't only a fairy tale told by the already rich and greedy. Even if you moved all super expensive items to bcnm, and made NM drop ex/rare, it wouldn't change much unless people could actually get the drop. Sure you could make Lord of Onzozo drop a ex/rare club, but unless it actually dropped it, there would be the same MPK attempts, the same drama, etc etc.
Maybe I'm slightly off topic by saying this, but me and my friends wasited sooo many beastmen seals trying to get a peacock charm, we're like 0/34 now. ; ; The peacock charm isn't a rare drop, but yet, the erase/ utsusemi NI are the rare drops. The peacock charm is the IMPOSSIBLE drop. So we are now trying to get more beastmen seals, which takes FOREVER.
Anyway, thanks for the chance to dicuss this with you. I hope you take my comments seriously. Quite a few of us quit camping NMs all together, simply because we feeled "Nerfed". We never get uber drops, ever. Not even a lousy D. cloth from King Arthur.
I really don't feel right saying this, but WoW named mobs are not heavily camped, because, they drop alot more than in FFXI. But here I am comparing an apple to an orange, so take this last comment with a grain of salt. I will admit I quit WoW and came back to FFXI, but I do miss actually getting the drops I'm looking for.
BTW, on Ramuh server, the price history of the Astral Signa, shows 2 purchases. One last year in 2004, and one in 2005. 2 have been sold through the auction house, 2 in the history of our auction house. This is the BS I'm talking about. Why even bother WANTING this item? You, me, your mother, and your sister, will never get this, ever. Its a dream to even think about it.
Edited, Thu Nov 3 23:56:41 2005 by Linuac
Making mobs drop the good stuff more would make people camp the mobs less, and in turn, lessen the harshness of camping a 21-24 hour pop, for weeks, and then killing it, and not getting the freaking drop (while other linkshells sulk and find a way to hate on you for claiming said NM). This is one of the reasons MPK happen anyway. People want items hnm drop, but rarely, even get a chance to CLAIM the mob never the less ACTUALLY get the drop. So you camp NM the next day, and you don't get claim, then the next day, you get claim, and no drop, so you camp the next day, and lose claim, so you camp the next day, and get claim but no drop. Let's not even discuss HQ HNMs. LMAO. You get my point here? Who in their right mind has the time to dedicate themselves in this fashion EVERY SINGLE DAY? IMHO its a great way for SE to make more money from us, but its sooo annoying.
Example, Kraken Club. I couldn't tell you how many hours/days I've WAISTED camping this NM, for it to only drop shall shells, and to only add a few more names to my /blist. Someone recently tried to MPK us with wsnm there, but 3 of us killed it for 126 xp lol. Was a long fight needless to say.
I mean, who in their right mind WANTS to camp a NM for over a month, for 10 hours everyday, only to come up with NOTHING WORTHWHILE? I don't want to do this, but the game is designed to only drop a very, very low rate on some items, everyone wants. I'm not saying make the Kraken Club drop 70% of the time, but COME ON! At least 30% would get alot of the people camping the NM, out of there and doing something else with their time.
People MPK because the get ill. People MPK at NM spawns. I'd say 90% of MPK happen because of NM. Change NM where they actually drop the items people are camping them for, and show us that the rare drops aren't only a fairy tale told by the already rich and greedy. Even if you moved all super expensive items to bcnm, and made NM drop ex/rare, it wouldn't change much unless people could actually get the drop. Sure you could make Lord of Onzozo drop a ex/rare club, but unless it actually dropped it, there would be the same MPK attempts, the same drama, etc etc.
Maybe I'm slightly off topic by saying this, but me and my friends wasited sooo many beastmen seals trying to get a peacock charm, we're like 0/34 now. ; ; The peacock charm isn't a rare drop, but yet, the erase/ utsusemi NI are the rare drops. The peacock charm is the IMPOSSIBLE drop. So we are now trying to get more beastmen seals, which takes FOREVER.
Anyway, thanks for the chance to dicuss this with you. I hope you take my comments seriously. Quite a few of us quit camping NMs all together, simply because we feeled "Nerfed". We never get uber drops, ever. Not even a lousy D. cloth from King Arthur.
I really don't feel right saying this, but WoW named mobs are not heavily camped, because, they drop alot more than in FFXI. But here I am comparing an apple to an orange, so take this last comment with a grain of salt. I will admit I quit WoW and came back to FFXI, but I do miss actually getting the drops I'm looking for.
BTW, on Ramuh server, the price history of the Astral Signa, shows 2 purchases. One last year in 2004, and one in 2005. 2 have been sold through the auction house, 2 in the history of our auction house. This is the BS I'm talking about. Why even bother WANTING this item? You, me, your mother, and your sister, will never get this, ever. Its a dream to even think about it.
Edited, Thu Nov 3 23:56:41 2005 by Linuac
#293
Nov 03 2005 at 11:25 PM
Scholar
44 posts
I would like to see SE remove the Call for Help options on HNM's and Wyrms. Nobody, and I mean nobody calls for help on these things on purpose, unless it is to either MPK or steal a mob and ***** someone over. Nothing is more frustrating than fighting a Wyrm for an hour to see someone accidentally call for help when trying to disengage, and with all the lag it happens a lot easier than it should. Or at a king camp an ls with too few members to actually kill the mob claim it when it goes yellow and calls for help to give their ls more time to show up. So I would suggest to remove the call for help option from Impossible to Guage mobs. My 2 cents.
Edited, Thu Nov 3 23:50:14 2005 by Briste
Edited, Thu Nov 3 23:50:14 2005 by Briste
#294
Nov 03 2005 at 11:28 PM
11 posts
MOB AI could be modified to "think" that if they are linking to a player who's provoking, but not hitting them, then it must be some sort of trap, and therefore stop pursuing unless the player stops and starts seriously fighting them.
#295
Nov 03 2005 at 11:30 PM
Suggestion/comments
First things first, there are only two reasons why MPK exists, and those reasons are:
1) To get the claim on a monster which has been claimed by another group.
and
2) To get revenge on a group or individual by causing them to loose experience points and waste their time (the time it takes them to die, time it takes them to get raised, time it takes to get unweakened, you get it).
The solution to #1 is so painstakingly simple that I have no idea why it still exists. To solve the problem, all you must do is station a GM at all king camps during their spawn windows and, upon request, at lower camps also. GM's would need the power to take control of the situation which I am sure they have anyway. This would in no way lower response time from GM's either, as they could still help people with problems while observing the camp.
Oddly, the solution to #2 isn't that shocking either. People MPK for revenge simply because there is no alternative. If somebody was making fun of you, or just being annoying, you can't do anything about it. You just have to sit there and take it, or MPK. To fix this, FFXI needs a more instanced PvP system.
Diorama-whatever was indeed a good start, but...well, here is an example. Say I'm leveling my BST in my favorite spot with only enough monsters to support 1 person. I have a search comment up indicating where I am and what I'm killing. Suddenly, another BST comes a long. No harm done really, I can deal with it...until the other BST decides to start releasing monsters on top of me and trying to kill me. What am I suppose to do? Tell them to meet me in jeuno for a ballista that we may have to wait 2 hours to enter? Hell no, I'm going to fight fire with fire and drop some pets on them.
By allowing players to battle eachother anywhere, the "revenge mpk" would be eliminated. It wouldn't have to be all out player killing either, you could have it as a sort of duel where both players must agree to fight.
Well, to sum it up, my suggestions are: place a GM at king camps during pop windows and create a much more instanced PvP
Now for my random comments.
To be honest, I didn't read the full page-gave up half way through page 1. Despite that though, I did see a few things which would make the game far too easy in many places (specifically dynamis and cop wyrms).
One of these suggestions was something along the lines of "monsters will not agro when they have been zoned until they return to their spawn point". While good for low level exp zones, this would make clearing dynamis much easier. The only challenge in say, beaucidene, is killing off the boss before the mobs you train to the zone return. If they would simply walk past you, you would have nearly unlimited time to kill the boss.
There is actually one suggestion I saw which would have an opposite effect on dynamis, which would be making it harder.
Somewhere I saw something like "limit the amount of monsters that can be trained, and how far they can be trained". Again, using beauciden as an example, you would possibly not be able to train all the mobs away from the boss, and not far enough away. It's not just that one dynamis though, jeuno for example you usually have a THF perfect dodge/flee from the palace to the zone, get the boss, and run back around past allowing you to pull it from the train before they go die far away. By limiting the distance monsters could be trained, you would greatly reduce the time you have to clear dynamis jeuno.
Those two suggestions are also both highly beneficial, and highly negative for cop wyrms (based on which one). The major problem you encounter during Vrtra is adds. If you could just train them to the zone and not have them aggro anyone, you could easily just have a dedicated person to pick them up when they return (after leaving your mage/weakened line alone) to train them back, simplifying this encounter beyond belief. Tiamat on the other hand, it would make harder. A popular strategy is to zone the corses during night time, and if you couldn't pick them all up, that would be an issue.
Ofcourse, a combination of the two would be nice for low level content, it would be very detrimental to the end game community. It's not like the end game community is small either, as most people now have atleast one job at or nearing 75.
While neither of these are really a big deal for an experienced linkshell, for a group who is just starting out, it could mean the difference between victory and defeat.
Ya...that was a lot of rambling O-o;
First things first, there are only two reasons why MPK exists, and those reasons are:
1) To get the claim on a monster which has been claimed by another group.
and
2) To get revenge on a group or individual by causing them to loose experience points and waste their time (the time it takes them to die, time it takes them to get raised, time it takes to get unweakened, you get it).
The solution to #1 is so painstakingly simple that I have no idea why it still exists. To solve the problem, all you must do is station a GM at all king camps during their spawn windows and, upon request, at lower camps also. GM's would need the power to take control of the situation which I am sure they have anyway. This would in no way lower response time from GM's either, as they could still help people with problems while observing the camp.
Oddly, the solution to #2 isn't that shocking either. People MPK for revenge simply because there is no alternative. If somebody was making fun of you, or just being annoying, you can't do anything about it. You just have to sit there and take it, or MPK. To fix this, FFXI needs a more instanced PvP system.
Diorama-whatever was indeed a good start, but...well, here is an example. Say I'm leveling my BST in my favorite spot with only enough monsters to support 1 person. I have a search comment up indicating where I am and what I'm killing. Suddenly, another BST comes a long. No harm done really, I can deal with it...until the other BST decides to start releasing monsters on top of me and trying to kill me. What am I suppose to do? Tell them to meet me in jeuno for a ballista that we may have to wait 2 hours to enter? Hell no, I'm going to fight fire with fire and drop some pets on them.
By allowing players to battle eachother anywhere, the "revenge mpk" would be eliminated. It wouldn't have to be all out player killing either, you could have it as a sort of duel where both players must agree to fight.
Well, to sum it up, my suggestions are: place a GM at king camps during pop windows and create a much more instanced PvP
Now for my random comments.
To be honest, I didn't read the full page-gave up half way through page 1. Despite that though, I did see a few things which would make the game far too easy in many places (specifically dynamis and cop wyrms).
One of these suggestions was something along the lines of "monsters will not agro when they have been zoned until they return to their spawn point". While good for low level exp zones, this would make clearing dynamis much easier. The only challenge in say, beaucidene, is killing off the boss before the mobs you train to the zone return. If they would simply walk past you, you would have nearly unlimited time to kill the boss.
There is actually one suggestion I saw which would have an opposite effect on dynamis, which would be making it harder.
Somewhere I saw something like "limit the amount of monsters that can be trained, and how far they can be trained". Again, using beauciden as an example, you would possibly not be able to train all the mobs away from the boss, and not far enough away. It's not just that one dynamis though, jeuno for example you usually have a THF perfect dodge/flee from the palace to the zone, get the boss, and run back around past allowing you to pull it from the train before they go die far away. By limiting the distance monsters could be trained, you would greatly reduce the time you have to clear dynamis jeuno.
Those two suggestions are also both highly beneficial, and highly negative for cop wyrms (based on which one). The major problem you encounter during Vrtra is adds. If you could just train them to the zone and not have them aggro anyone, you could easily just have a dedicated person to pick them up when they return (after leaving your mage/weakened line alone) to train them back, simplifying this encounter beyond belief. Tiamat on the other hand, it would make harder. A popular strategy is to zone the corses during night time, and if you couldn't pick them all up, that would be an issue.
Ofcourse, a combination of the two would be nice for low level content, it would be very detrimental to the end game community. It's not like the end game community is small either, as most people now have atleast one job at or nearing 75.
While neither of these are really a big deal for an experienced linkshell, for a group who is just starting out, it could mean the difference between victory and defeat.
Ya...that was a lot of rambling O-o;
#296
Nov 03 2005 at 11:33 PM
Suggestion: I would like to stress that more focus should be on the source of MPK rather than the end result.
1)An effective monitering system for repeat offenders for instance.
2)Harsh punishments. someone MPK's me, i don't want to see them on my server for a few days at least. increasingly drastic measures and cumulative sentances. (one time offense, ban for 3 days. second offense banned for 5 days and 10% of your total gil atm is reducted from your account. third offense 10 days ban, 20% total gil lost, and level reduction on the players highest job)
3) as it has been stated before, removing RMT players will solve 90% of problems as far as MPK. i believe NM and HNM should be the main focus, MPK in other instances are few in number and not much more than an inconvenience.
4) this is just a thought as far as my general feeling of the game rather than a suggestion. FFXI is the only place you can work so hard, put so much time and effort into a goal and have nothing to show for it.
1)An effective monitering system for repeat offenders for instance.
2)Harsh punishments. someone MPK's me, i don't want to see them on my server for a few days at least. increasingly drastic measures and cumulative sentances. (one time offense, ban for 3 days. second offense banned for 5 days and 10% of your total gil atm is reducted from your account. third offense 10 days ban, 20% total gil lost, and level reduction on the players highest job)
3) as it has been stated before, removing RMT players will solve 90% of problems as far as MPK. i believe NM and HNM should be the main focus, MPK in other instances are few in number and not much more than an inconvenience.
4) this is just a thought as far as my general feeling of the game rather than a suggestion. FFXI is the only place you can work so hard, put so much time and effort into a goal and have nothing to show for it.
#297
Nov 03 2005 at 11:38 PM
"FFXI is the only place you can work so hard, put so much time and effort into a goal and have nothing to show for it."
here here, I agree 100%
here here, I agree 100%
#298
Nov 03 2005 at 11:38 PM
3 posts
Well im a 73whm on Remora and been tring to camp serket with my hlnm/sky ls and to this day we cant grab him cause of gillsellers. One of our members wanted to mpk them because this mnk/nin always gets serket but we dont cause we r nice. Only reason I say that they are Gillsellers is because no madder what jobs we bring and or all the ppl we got they still get it and also they have no ls equip and they are annon. The other day another ls was there beside us and the Gillsellers came and with 5 min of being there they get it so the other ls MPK them and i tried to heal the mnk to be kind but could not do it. I think this is the way to solve that.
1 Is that if you get claim of a hlnm/nm that you cannot claim it again for 3-15days if you get drop and or if they mpk you after all is dead that nm will dissapear so that others CANNOT lay claim to it.
2. Station a GM at every spawn point of highly sought after
NM's (Simurgh, Roc, Serket, KB, Kirin, etc.) Give them the power to take control of situations like that and handle the linked monsters on their own. THATS IF it comes down to it or least have a GM video on those mobs.
3 This is from me. PLEASE PLEASE raise the drop rate of the Jaggedy-Ear Jack and other NM. I would like to have it before I level thief. without having lev 75thief.
4 Do like u did with the emperior fly and leaping lizzy make it Rare ex.
1 Is that if you get claim of a hlnm/nm that you cannot claim it again for 3-15days if you get drop and or if they mpk you after all is dead that nm will dissapear so that others CANNOT lay claim to it.
2. Station a GM at every spawn point of highly sought after
NM's (Simurgh, Roc, Serket, KB, Kirin, etc.) Give them the power to take control of situations like that and handle the linked monsters on their own. THATS IF it comes down to it or least have a GM video on those mobs.
3 This is from me. PLEASE PLEASE raise the drop rate of the Jaggedy-Ear Jack and other NM. I would like to have it before I level thief. without having lev 75thief.
4 Do like u did with the emperior fly and leaping lizzy make it Rare ex.
#299
Nov 03 2005 at 11:38 PM
I have friends who play EQ2 and WoW, here is how these games handled these issues:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Beginning of suggestions
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Suggestion: Mobs not agroing until they move back to their patrol/spawn area is great. But this can be taken advantage of. If someone doesn't like you, they can just train every monster you and your party are trying to exp off of. Now I don't know if we want monsters walking back to their home to be claimable. My idea is to make their name a special color and make them run 500% faster then they normally would till they reach home. This will prevent normal flow of the game for other players to be obstructed.
You don't want a high lvl THF to agro everything in the zone, zone and have the path clear for other players to walk through the zone while the mobs take their time getting back to home.
Suggestion: For any big HNM that has a long spawn time, there needs to be an ENM battle that matches it in style of fight and drops.
For example, an ENM such as "The tree King Fafnir" (I know the name is lame :P). This would be a fight with Fafnir. You don't want these fights to be accessible to everyone all the time. If you could only repeat the fight every 3 or 4 days, and have to quest a certain key item to access it each time. But don't make the quest too complicated or require killing a certain mob. This will just result in the same bottle neck of people all trying to get 1 thing. For monsters like Nidhogg or King Behemoth have the Fafnir or Behemoth ENM have a chance to obtain a key item to have access to Nidhogg or King Behemoth ENM. You would want the average chance of obtaining this to be every 7 or 8 ENMs a group does.
This system would open certain content of the game to more players. Everyone will have a chance to fight these monsters. But it won't make the items any less sought after because of the time restriction of 3 or 4 days between each fight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
End of suggestions
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I must apologies if someone else suggested the same thing. I was too lazy to read all 6 pages. I am so glad SE if finally asking us our opinion and discussing things with us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Beginning of suggestions
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Suggestion: Mobs not agroing until they move back to their patrol/spawn area is great. But this can be taken advantage of. If someone doesn't like you, they can just train every monster you and your party are trying to exp off of. Now I don't know if we want monsters walking back to their home to be claimable. My idea is to make their name a special color and make them run 500% faster then they normally would till they reach home. This will prevent normal flow of the game for other players to be obstructed.
You don't want a high lvl THF to agro everything in the zone, zone and have the path clear for other players to walk through the zone while the mobs take their time getting back to home.
Suggestion: For any big HNM that has a long spawn time, there needs to be an ENM battle that matches it in style of fight and drops.
For example, an ENM such as "The tree King Fafnir" (I know the name is lame :P). This would be a fight with Fafnir. You don't want these fights to be accessible to everyone all the time. If you could only repeat the fight every 3 or 4 days, and have to quest a certain key item to access it each time. But don't make the quest too complicated or require killing a certain mob. This will just result in the same bottle neck of people all trying to get 1 thing. For monsters like Nidhogg or King Behemoth have the Fafnir or Behemoth ENM have a chance to obtain a key item to have access to Nidhogg or King Behemoth ENM. You would want the average chance of obtaining this to be every 7 or 8 ENMs a group does.
This system would open certain content of the game to more players. Everyone will have a chance to fight these monsters. But it won't make the items any less sought after because of the time restriction of 3 or 4 days between each fight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
End of suggestions
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I must apologies if someone else suggested the same thing. I was too lazy to read all 6 pages. I am so glad SE if finally asking us our opinion and discussing things with us.
#300
Nov 03 2005 at 11:38 PM
this isnt a MPK issue but.... When your player is on merits and you die and delevel to 74 you go back to xp naturaly, but when when you go to xp and you regain lvl 75 it jumps back into merits leaving you wiht about a 100xp buffer. I would just like to be able to turn off merits when im lvl 74 so when i xp and hit lvl 75 it stays on xp
#301
Nov 03 2005 at 11:38 PM
Maybe initiating some sort of "Safe Zone" near each zone would work. For example. Selbina zone was always a prime target from Goblin Trains and many people would zone into the Dune already dead, and undeserving of that. Let's say for instance, that area past the gate, right before the selbina zone would be one of these "safe zones" and mob(s) trained there would either halt at that gate, or be allowed into the gate, but would no aggro anyone else until they again stepped outside that area.
Just a thought.
Edit: Sorry if this idea was previously posted... 6 whole pages of ideas is A LOT to read through >.<
Edited, Thu Nov 3 23:55:36 2005 by SirGanon
Just a thought.
Edit: Sorry if this idea was previously posted... 6 whole pages of ideas is A LOT to read through >.<
Edited, Thu Nov 3 23:55:36 2005 by SirGanon
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