NM & HMN Suggestions
I like the ballista style idea for NM and HNM. Once a NM is claimed the party/allainace is still visible but no player or mob "outside" the battle can interact with the players or the NM. This means no spells, no linkshells, no tells/shouts, no AOE, no joining, ect from "outside". It also means no warping out or zoning the NM, the battle continues until the NM or all the players involved die. Players "outside" the battle will be able to watch as in ballista.
If the players fail to beat the NM, no one is able to claim the NM until it has healed to full; and a random period of time has passed(say 2-5 minutes). The NM will return to it's closest normal area as it heals.
The unclaimable NM is free to lash out at players close to the it, those players will be free to warp or zone, but can't claim the NM. The NM will not chase or attack players that continue to move away from it.
This will have the effect of clearing out players camping spawn areas, and players using various tactics to hold or kite NM. The fact that players can't leave the battle without winning or dieing should stop people from d/cing on purpose too. These suggestions should stop people MPKing for NM/HNM
Link Suggestions
The maximum number of mobs that will link to form a "train" should be limited. And there should a maximum limit of mobs that can occcupy a given volume of space. This will stop a huge number of mobs piling up at the zone (such as the crabs in Kuftal Tunnel). Only so many mobs will approach each other and additional mobs will move away.
Unless claimed; hate should transfer from the mob chasing the party to the mobs in front of the party after x number of seconds(say 10) to keep huge trains ending up at zones. This will actually pull mobs from the zone areas deeper into the zone. (as in the shouts of the beastmen calling others in front of you to get you before you get away). The mobs that were in the train will then go back to their normal areas after the xfer their hate to others.
No more than 4 or 5 Beastmen should "train" on a player. And "too weak" beastmen should not train or link at all, in fact they should move away from the source of aggro in a link situation unless cornered.
Mobs that are zoned should only agrro members of the party/alliance that zoned them, until they have returned to their normal areas or moved more than 10 seconds away form the zone(this part would be tough). These suggestions will reduce MPK at zone lines.
BST Suggestion
Using "leave" on a pet should cause the former pet to flee at maximum speed away from the BST for atleast 30 seconds. It should be marked in a fashion as a former pet(such as making the name dark blue) it should not link or aggro until it has healed to full and is done fleeing. This should stop MPK by BST pets.
GM Suggestions
GMs should have the ability to quickly investigate complaints of MPK. There should be a special catagory of GM call for MPK that includes time and area the call was made from. So that a GM can see imediatly if 25 people are reporting MPK in Crawler's Nest at about the same time. And players should also be able to see that 25 people in their area have reported MPK(maybe similar to an emote).
When a player makes a GM call for MPK it should automatically send the last 10-20 lines from their log with the GM call. And players reporting MPK should be forced to rest (unless dead in which case they can not homepoint or accept raise/tractor), until released by a GM. Players would be safe from aggro once frozen, but unable to do anything but rest to keep them from leaving the zone, this should cut down on false claims of MPK.
Also give the players the abilty to see what order in the que for GM call they are for MPK reports. Either a status symbol with a number on it or a line of text in the log saying you are #12 in the que.
Players that have been punished for MPK should carry some sort flag to make other players aware of how they play, and the same with false reports of MPK. This will make a GMs job easier hopefully and make players happier.
editied for better readablity
Edited, Fri Nov 4 03:43:31 2005 by Karit
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Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#328
Nov 04 2005 at 1:30 AM
5 posts
THANK THE GOOD LORD SE IS INTERACTING WITH THEIR COMMUNITY, THANK YOU VERY VERY VERY MUCH
As for the MPK thing i think the no aggro until they get to their spawn point thing is a good idea. When you guys get done with this project for gods sake, please fix THE BIG PROBLEMS WITH YOUR END-GAMEby visting www.theorderls.com and looking what some of those people post, you have about 50% of your players that live for end-game activity and there is little content, and the little that is out there is unfair at some points. I am VERY glad you are interacting with your community and I hope you actually do something about BIG issues.
As for the MPK thing i think the no aggro until they get to their spawn point thing is a good idea. When you guys get done with this project for gods sake, please fix THE BIG PROBLEMS WITH YOUR END-GAMEby visting www.theorderls.com and looking what some of those people post, you have about 50% of your players that live for end-game activity and there is little content, and the little that is out there is unfair at some points. I am VERY glad you are interacting with your community and I hope you actually do something about BIG issues.
#329
Nov 04 2005 at 1:33 AM
I know as a smn i've near MPK'd ppl because of several unfixed bugs smn would love to have fixed. 1 involves when youre soloing and your avatar dies, the game not recognizing it so you have to run and hope to be far enough away when the game realizes your pet is dead to let you resummon. This usually ends up dragging some potentially aggro mobs, or a train if unlucky to follow you across the zone and then kill others on the way back. The 2nd is similar, if a smn is lagging at all the game thinks theyre are at spot a, the screen shows them at spot b and if you start to summon a pet the game catches up and you fail the cast resulting in a similar scenario to the first one. Easy fix. If you have a move-fail as smn make it happen immediately instead of 15 sec later when all thats left to you is to run and endanger anyone nearby. 3rd has been mentioned, smn usually solo bombs, and innocents can get caught in self destruct. If a bomb is claimed its self -destruct or hypothermic combustion shouldnt damage anyone but the claimer or their party.
Edited, Fri Nov 4 01:59:22 2005 by Nicolette
Edited, Fri Nov 4 01:59:22 2005 by Nicolette
#330
Nov 04 2005 at 1:33 AM
Wow. This is great. :)
MPK only tends to happen in two places... (1) where people are competing to claim a Notorious Monster and (2) when experience parties and beastmaster exp parties are competing for the same mobs.
The second situation can be handled by either making beastmaster someone that parties want to be on the good side of... or by making the presence of exp parties something that beastmaster would want to encourage. I don't have beastmaster levelled too far, but I feel very bad when exp parties and beastmasters can't work together for each other's benefit. I go out of my way in my exp parties to encourage the party to work with the beastmaster, rather than in competition with them....more people would do this with the slightest incentive.
Maybe to solve the first situation, multiple NM's that drop competing items of similar usefulness to certain jobs. instead of one must have item that's only dropped by one NM once a week.... provide alternative items that may not be as amazing, but passable substitutes. That will lower prices a little bit, and make the competition for some NM's drops a little less animous.
MPK only tends to happen in two places... (1) where people are competing to claim a Notorious Monster and (2) when experience parties and beastmaster exp parties are competing for the same mobs.
The second situation can be handled by either making beastmaster someone that parties want to be on the good side of... or by making the presence of exp parties something that beastmaster would want to encourage. I don't have beastmaster levelled too far, but I feel very bad when exp parties and beastmasters can't work together for each other's benefit. I go out of my way in my exp parties to encourage the party to work with the beastmaster, rather than in competition with them....more people would do this with the slightest incentive.
Maybe to solve the first situation, multiple NM's that drop competing items of similar usefulness to certain jobs. instead of one must have item that's only dropped by one NM once a week.... provide alternative items that may not be as amazing, but passable substitutes. That will lower prices a little bit, and make the competition for some NM's drops a little less animous.
#331
Nov 04 2005 at 2:05 AM
wow all this reading for you guys looks like quite a task.
As far as my 2 cents go, on Kujata you don't see many "Chinese Gil farmers/sellers" in low lvl area's anymore thanks to changes made to certain Notorious monsters in those area's. Area's currently of concern and of threat are high lvl or endgame area's in Sea Serpents Grotto, Temple of Uggalepih and or in Garliage Citadel.
These area's are the homes of certain Notorious monsters that drop items for high lvl equip such as Siren Hair, the Thf Knife, and other nice items. All of the monsters are camped night and day 24 hrs a day 7 days a week and within 1 min of server restart after any maintenance by groups such as the notorious JL group, Cherep's group, the Zhanshi group, and a group of miscelanious "CGF" which camp Zuug the Whitehearted in SSG.
Although JL and Zhanshi are not mainly known for mpk, the group in SSG is hostile toward any legitimate player who chooses to camp items rather than purchase from them off the Auction house. These are the enemy, and when players are mpk'd by these enemies we can do nothing about it. GM's often respond to calls with annoyed attitudes and behave as if they have a God complex. They are not helpful and often jail the innocent in favor of the enemy.
This is where you are losing people the GM's do not have a working understanding of game mechanics, they do not know the TOS, and they appear to support the Enemy 100%. This leads us to believe that the GM's and SE itself are in leage with the CGF in order to make profits under the table at our expense. With a company as large as your own you should know appearance often is everything in business, when people call a GM this is the appearance an uneducated and uninformed GM convey's.
[GM] hi i'm sorry about the mpk that has happened to you today. What seems to be the problem.
[Player]These people just killed my party we were fighting an NM and they just kept coming with more and more enemies.
[GM] I'm sorry to hear that did they say anything or did you do anything.
[player] no but as soon as we died they took the nm and are killing it now.
[GM] I'll investigate this and thank you for calling.
..
investigation
[GM} hello you have been reported for MPKing what is the problem.
[CGF] {I don't speak any english}
[GM] would you like me to send for a Japanese GM?
[CGF] {I don't speak any Japanese}
[GM] umm okay
[CGF] I don't like [player] LS they MPK. Steal {Notorious Monster} us our {camp}
This conversation is a summary of a conversation recorded in a screen shot after members of my ls were jailed for being mpk'd while fighting Charybdis.
A good solution would be to avoid MPK from ever happening again once a monster is agro'd and linked and brought to another area. Perhaps once a monster moves into another room or more than a certain distance away from it's normal spawn area once the agressor is dead the monsters inherit spawning sickness and move off back to their spawn points blind and deaf to other players. once they reach their spawning radius they once again will agro and attack players as normal.
Similar to the way Guardian crawler behaves, it is green once it spawns in, and will not agro immediately. And monsters that have just been generated will not link to other monsters of that type for a certain period. To make things fair also on Notorious monsters what if once a party/group is killed by the monster or HNM being fought it goes green for a cool off period during which time the monster will regenerate to full health and reset all timers. During this time it may not be engaged attacked or agro'd. With enemies returning to thier spawn points in the case of normal mobs it would be good to allow people to claim normal mobs returning to home, but once they claim the mob can once again link and agro immediately.
By this method it would become impossible for anyone to train, MPK anyone to destructive ends and will encourage more to farm.
As for CGF i'm sure anyone who has played this game for any ammount of time can give you a list of the notorious Gil farmers/sellers.
And for GM's the response to do you play this game at all. Should not be "yes I do I play a very high lvl Character" we know our own and we can tell a complete noob from a seasoned player. The GM's now are a joke you can go on any HNM linkshells website and see posts about the useless and ineffective gM's.
I and several others get tired of playing whenever we can and getting nothing done because individuals monetarily attached to our game of choice decided that they will be exclusive providers and price setters of items.
That has been my 2 cents SE I hope to God you do something about these things.
As far as my 2 cents go, on Kujata you don't see many "Chinese Gil farmers/sellers" in low lvl area's anymore thanks to changes made to certain Notorious monsters in those area's. Area's currently of concern and of threat are high lvl or endgame area's in Sea Serpents Grotto, Temple of Uggalepih and or in Garliage Citadel.
These area's are the homes of certain Notorious monsters that drop items for high lvl equip such as Siren Hair, the Thf Knife, and other nice items. All of the monsters are camped night and day 24 hrs a day 7 days a week and within 1 min of server restart after any maintenance by groups such as the notorious JL group, Cherep's group, the Zhanshi group, and a group of miscelanious "CGF" which camp Zuug the Whitehearted in SSG.
Although JL and Zhanshi are not mainly known for mpk, the group in SSG is hostile toward any legitimate player who chooses to camp items rather than purchase from them off the Auction house. These are the enemy, and when players are mpk'd by these enemies we can do nothing about it. GM's often respond to calls with annoyed attitudes and behave as if they have a God complex. They are not helpful and often jail the innocent in favor of the enemy.
This is where you are losing people the GM's do not have a working understanding of game mechanics, they do not know the TOS, and they appear to support the Enemy 100%. This leads us to believe that the GM's and SE itself are in leage with the CGF in order to make profits under the table at our expense. With a company as large as your own you should know appearance often is everything in business, when people call a GM this is the appearance an uneducated and uninformed GM convey's.
[GM] hi i'm sorry about the mpk that has happened to you today. What seems to be the problem.
[Player]These people just killed my party we were fighting an NM and they just kept coming with more and more enemies.
[GM] I'm sorry to hear that did they say anything or did you do anything.
[player] no but as soon as we died they took the nm and are killing it now.
[GM] I'll investigate this and thank you for calling.
..
investigation
[GM} hello you have been reported for MPKing what is the problem.
[CGF] {I don't speak any english}
[GM] would you like me to send for a Japanese GM?
[CGF] {I don't speak any Japanese}
[GM] umm okay
[CGF] I don't like [player] LS they MPK. Steal {Notorious Monster} us our {camp}
This conversation is a summary of a conversation recorded in a screen shot after members of my ls were jailed for being mpk'd while fighting Charybdis.
A good solution would be to avoid MPK from ever happening again once a monster is agro'd and linked and brought to another area. Perhaps once a monster moves into another room or more than a certain distance away from it's normal spawn area once the agressor is dead the monsters inherit spawning sickness and move off back to their spawn points blind and deaf to other players. once they reach their spawning radius they once again will agro and attack players as normal.
Similar to the way Guardian crawler behaves, it is green once it spawns in, and will not agro immediately. And monsters that have just been generated will not link to other monsters of that type for a certain period. To make things fair also on Notorious monsters what if once a party/group is killed by the monster or HNM being fought it goes green for a cool off period during which time the monster will regenerate to full health and reset all timers. During this time it may not be engaged attacked or agro'd. With enemies returning to thier spawn points in the case of normal mobs it would be good to allow people to claim normal mobs returning to home, but once they claim the mob can once again link and agro immediately.
By this method it would become impossible for anyone to train, MPK anyone to destructive ends and will encourage more to farm.
As for CGF i'm sure anyone who has played this game for any ammount of time can give you a list of the notorious Gil farmers/sellers.
And for GM's the response to do you play this game at all. Should not be "yes I do I play a very high lvl Character" we know our own and we can tell a complete noob from a seasoned player. The GM's now are a joke you can go on any HNM linkshells website and see posts about the useless and ineffective gM's.
I and several others get tired of playing whenever we can and getting nothing done because individuals monetarily attached to our game of choice decided that they will be exclusive providers and price setters of items.
That has been my 2 cents SE I hope to God you do something about these things.
#332
Nov 04 2005 at 2:12 AM
I hate to be the negative one
but...
No aggro until mob returns to spawn is just opening up a huge door of exploits. I'll gladly make the most of it, but I think its pretty silly what you can do in the end.
Reading and dealing with MPK claims should be sufficient. Viking on Asura has been jailed many times for MPK'ing, yet they keep coming back.
Sort it out.
but...
No aggro until mob returns to spawn is just opening up a huge door of exploits. I'll gladly make the most of it, but I think its pretty silly what you can do in the end.
Reading and dealing with MPK claims should be sufficient. Viking on Asura has been jailed many times for MPK'ing, yet they keep coming back.
Sort it out.
#333
Nov 04 2005 at 2:16 AM
way too much to read. Hope I'm not repeating something already mentioned.
my suggestion on MPK:
make mobs not agro players immediatly when entering a zone (be it from a connected zone, teleporting in to a crystal or outpost or returning to a home point after death or warp.)
Many times I have zoned into areas such as dunes, crawlers nest or Garlage and been killed before my screen even displays the area much less the mobs sitting there waiting for hapless victims to zone in.
All I am asking for is give us a fighting chance to see the mobs and try to zone back out before we are killed. Another solution would be to allow sneak/invis to stay on when zoning, but I don't see this ever being changed.
my suggestion on MPK:
make mobs not agro players immediatly when entering a zone (be it from a connected zone, teleporting in to a crystal or outpost or returning to a home point after death or warp.)
Many times I have zoned into areas such as dunes, crawlers nest or Garlage and been killed before my screen even displays the area much less the mobs sitting there waiting for hapless victims to zone in.
All I am asking for is give us a fighting chance to see the mobs and try to zone back out before we are killed. Another solution would be to allow sneak/invis to stay on when zoning, but I don't see this ever being changed.
#334
Nov 04 2005 at 2:21 AM
12 posts
make it so the same person(s) can not kill the same (H)NM within two 24 hour consecutive pops could help control gilsellers and monopolyzin, if you cant get the NM theres no point or reason to mpk
#335
Nov 04 2005 at 2:24 AM
Scholar
23 posts
Personally i think the frist 3 suggestions posted by the rep were great. If everyone with hate zones then the mob doesnt aggro till its home, thats great, of course we would want to make sure it requires everyone who had hate to zone. normal party hate rules still apply. Some have said this leads to lazyness and thfs just zoneing, thus far this is pretty much how it happens anyway so whats the difference.
bst idea, also great. Bomb mobs especially shouldnt effect other pts. BSts tend to kill lots of people in the citadel with bomb mobs.
as far as posting GMs. obviously we cannot post GMs everywhere but there are obvious trouble zones. Maybe make it possible for GMs to know when the ultra rare and highly contested HNMs are going to pop. Also in other obvious problem areas. This hopefully can get rid of MPKers, Gil sellers and the idiots who mpk gilsellers and make the problem worse.
Finaly enforce your own rules. MPKers tend to get off with a slap on the wrist and then are back in action to mpk the next day. Obvious and uncontested MPKers like a half dozen Gilsellers on every server, a full dozen dopes who mpk the gilserllers, and losers who even confess and brag about their crimes like Palidor can be banned on site and their accounts deleted.
bst idea, also great. Bomb mobs especially shouldnt effect other pts. BSts tend to kill lots of people in the citadel with bomb mobs.
as far as posting GMs. obviously we cannot post GMs everywhere but there are obvious trouble zones. Maybe make it possible for GMs to know when the ultra rare and highly contested HNMs are going to pop. Also in other obvious problem areas. This hopefully can get rid of MPKers, Gil sellers and the idiots who mpk gilsellers and make the problem worse.
Finaly enforce your own rules. MPKers tend to get off with a slap on the wrist and then are back in action to mpk the next day. Obvious and uncontested MPKers like a half dozen Gilsellers on every server, a full dozen dopes who mpk the gilserllers, and losers who even confess and brag about their crimes like Palidor can be banned on site and their accounts deleted.
#336
Nov 04 2005 at 2:32 AM
I didn't get to read all the suggestions. Only the first 2 pages.
So here goes.
Perhaps a system like World of Warcraft. I've only played a little bit of WoW, on my friends account.
But I noticed that in the game if you get aggroed, linked, etc. That if you run away far enough from the mobs. That they will give up, and stop chasing you.
Perhaps you should assign each mob, an aggro/travel range. Like each Mob will not travel outside aggro range, unless they are claimed.
Mobs linked, will not go outside their aggro-range/circle.
If someone claims a mob, then zones it. Make it so that it can't aggro anyone until it goes back to it's designated aggro-range/circle.
If I'm not clear about this, here is an example:
Garliage Citadel. You pull/claim a Bat. Since you claimed that bat, that bat is allowed to travel outside its aggro circle. Another bat links to your Bat. However since that Bat is not claimed by you. Once you take the Bat that you claimed outside the other Bat's aggro range. The unclaimed bat will give up on you and go back into it's aggro circle.
Then say you zone the Claimed bat. The claimed bat goes back unclaimed, and will not aggro/link onto anyone until it gets back to it's home/aggro circle.
This would give the players the ability to really camp at a certain place and not fear being aggroed/linked onto.
You still have to worry about links/aggro in HNM. But at least you can move your claimed mob out of the link/aggroed mobs circle and get it off you.
Edited, Fri Nov 4 02:55:46 2005 by TianSan
So here goes.
Perhaps a system like World of Warcraft. I've only played a little bit of WoW, on my friends account.
But I noticed that in the game if you get aggroed, linked, etc. That if you run away far enough from the mobs. That they will give up, and stop chasing you.
Perhaps you should assign each mob, an aggro/travel range. Like each Mob will not travel outside aggro range, unless they are claimed.
Mobs linked, will not go outside their aggro-range/circle.
If someone claims a mob, then zones it. Make it so that it can't aggro anyone until it goes back to it's designated aggro-range/circle.
If I'm not clear about this, here is an example:
Garliage Citadel. You pull/claim a Bat. Since you claimed that bat, that bat is allowed to travel outside its aggro circle. Another bat links to your Bat. However since that Bat is not claimed by you. Once you take the Bat that you claimed outside the other Bat's aggro range. The unclaimed bat will give up on you and go back into it's aggro circle.
Then say you zone the Claimed bat. The claimed bat goes back unclaimed, and will not aggro/link onto anyone until it gets back to it's home/aggro circle.
This would give the players the ability to really camp at a certain place and not fear being aggroed/linked onto.
You still have to worry about links/aggro in HNM. But at least you can move your claimed mob out of the link/aggroed mobs circle and get it off you.
Edited, Fri Nov 4 02:55:46 2005 by TianSan
#337
Nov 04 2005 at 2:39 AM
17 posts
Suggestion #1: Respect your customers.
Suggestion #2: Why the hell do I camp 3-4 [ REAL LIFE HOURS ] and am not sure that I'll get the item if I was lucky to claim the NM.
Suggestion #3: If I got the item once, then why the hell do I get it twice? did I sold it? fine, then I can buy it back or I shouldn't sell it. So, if anyone got the item then he/she NEVER EVER get it as a drop again, plus more drop rate.
Suggestion #4: instead of solving the MPK system and you may mess up the game-play, try to fix things that let ppl MPKing:
1- More camping spot.
2- no link in crowded zones. [ don't mess up with agro, it makes the game much better ]
3- More drop rate
Suggestion #5: More drop rate & Less pop time for NMs that drop rare/ex. ppl quit the game without getting a chance to get such items, and they may won't quit if they got it.
Suggestion #6: Hope you really listening not just trying to show the ppl that you're and you do what you already planed.
[Please forgive me][English][I can speak a little]
Thank you
Suggestion #2: Why the hell do I camp 3-4 [ REAL LIFE HOURS ] and am not sure that I'll get the item if I was lucky to claim the NM.
Suggestion #3: If I got the item once, then why the hell do I get it twice? did I sold it? fine, then I can buy it back or I shouldn't sell it. So, if anyone got the item then he/she NEVER EVER get it as a drop again, plus more drop rate.
Suggestion #4: instead of solving the MPK system and you may mess up the game-play, try to fix things that let ppl MPKing:
1- More camping spot.
2- no link in crowded zones. [ don't mess up with agro, it makes the game much better ]
3- More drop rate
Suggestion #5: More drop rate & Less pop time for NMs that drop rare/ex. ppl quit the game without getting a chance to get such items, and they may won't quit if they got it.
Suggestion #6: Hope you really listening not just trying to show the ppl that you're and you do what you already planed.
[Please forgive me][English][I can speak a little]
Thank you
#338
Nov 04 2005 at 2:49 AM
Scholar
17 posts
Suggestion: I like the idea of GMs being present for all the NM/HNM trouble spots. This idea is also wildly impractacle. I suggest something like the vanadiel-cam on the FFXI website's main page. At the pop of all the troublesome NMs a camera can activate and record a portion of the fight. This recorded video can then be called as evidence by any GM when responding to a charge of an MPK. The video wouldn't have to stay on the server long: maybe only until the next pop of that NM.
Kinda like TIVO, only instead of dishing out reruns, it dishes out sweet, sweet, justice.
I realize that the problem with this is information storage space, and length of recording: I understand some fights can last for hours and even days, thus making recording them in totality completly unrealistic.
Perhaps you could allow players to initiate the cameras themselves, thus allowing them to record the MPK in progress. The problem with this is that it could too easily be missused to crash the FFXI servers.
Suggestion: I like the idea of city guards, kinda like Everquest had. This would provide a kind of safety zone around cities at least, and if outpost guards joined in then there would be a safety zone in just about every region. Maybe the guards can only engage on mobs that have been "call for help"'d on and then link onto any other mobs that have the player that called for help on its hate list.
Because how unrealistic is it that when i'm getting chased by a fairly deadly train (say 4 wights and 2 bogys in valkrum) the outpost guards just look on with cold disdain in their eyes as i bleed to death on their shoes. Not fun or realistic at all.
Oh, and before I forget, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU Mr. Square-Enix Representative for finally making first contact with us.
I assume that through continued interaction, my urge to abduct you, tie you to a chair, and rant at you about my joys and grievances over this game will eventually subside.
Kinda like TIVO, only instead of dishing out reruns, it dishes out sweet, sweet, justice.
I realize that the problem with this is information storage space, and length of recording: I understand some fights can last for hours and even days, thus making recording them in totality completly unrealistic.
Perhaps you could allow players to initiate the cameras themselves, thus allowing them to record the MPK in progress. The problem with this is that it could too easily be missused to crash the FFXI servers.
Suggestion: I like the idea of city guards, kinda like Everquest had. This would provide a kind of safety zone around cities at least, and if outpost guards joined in then there would be a safety zone in just about every region. Maybe the guards can only engage on mobs that have been "call for help"'d on and then link onto any other mobs that have the player that called for help on its hate list.
Because how unrealistic is it that when i'm getting chased by a fairly deadly train (say 4 wights and 2 bogys in valkrum) the outpost guards just look on with cold disdain in their eyes as i bleed to death on their shoes. Not fun or realistic at all.
Oh, and before I forget, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU Mr. Square-Enix Representative for finally making first contact with us.
I assume that through continued interaction, my urge to abduct you, tie you to a chair, and rant at you about my joys and grievances over this game will eventually subside.
#339
Nov 04 2005 at 2:59 AM
I think all you people are little whiny ******** Oh make the game easy so I can level up faster. Take away everything that could kill me. Make benediction a 5 min recast and remove all hate from it. Make invincible a 30 second recast and total hate. Make all WS do 9999 damage. Take out all mobs in the zone except for the one that I'm fighting. Everytime you set your HP you get a automatic reraise. Make it so you can refresh that reraise just by getting signet. Make it so I can use my level 42 SAM in my level 20 SMN avatar fights. Make Ethers 50 gil a peice just like in the first FF. Make it so that I get NM items just by killing the mobs that spawn the NM I need. Make all NMs 100% drop. Make all NMs spawn every five mins. Sell Beastman Seals for 1 gil a piece and Kindred Seals for 10 gil a piece from NPCs in the Tenshido. Make it so I can own the pirates on the Selbina/Mhura ferry with my level 1 RDM.
I know, how about a PvP where you can just run up to any person on the server at any time and kill them. Then once you kill them you have the ability to take all of their gear. That should stop all MPK attempts. ****.
I know, how about a PvP where you can just run up to any person on the server at any time and kill them. Then once you kill them you have the ability to take all of their gear. That should stop all MPK attempts. ****.
#340
Nov 04 2005 at 3:04 AM
2 posts
In the past year and a half, MPK hasnt really been a PVP problem for me its been more NPC vs ME. The biggest example is in Valley of Sorrows, no matter what your fighting someone always aggros a giant azz bird and the AoE attack is one that seems constant, and due to the lack of space to fight safely surrounding parties tend to have to deal with that AoE as well, and of course the cases of death caused by them. Another issue with the MPK system is people going out running around a mob so it aggros and bringing it back to camp while they zone, killing surrounding parties. So yes having the mob non-aggroable until it reaches its spawn point would cut that down. As far as AoE from other parties mobs, well to me its annoying and we all wish that it could be kept to that party only i.e. if a mob uses Posionaga II or Diaga III that can knock some HP off but it doesnt affect surrounding parties, so why should AoE be any different......I read further up someone mentioning a BST's pet not being able to aggro surrounding parties. To me thats not really an issue if its a "used" pet cause you can easly take 2 secs to kill it, cause the moment it aggros it doesnt regen anymore. But for pets that are mischarmed and the BST zones that can go back to having it non-aggroable until it reaches its spawn point. Thats really all i can think of for parties being attacked by AoE or aggro from others peoples reasons. As far as being aggroed in your own pt cause you caused Thunderga III and hit 3 other mobs, well you deserve to die do to the lack of noticing your surroundings before you cast that. For BST well your on your own. If you cant charm a BST tough, if you know you can and have difficulties charming it even after you have charmed 5 other mobs of the same family in front of it, get used to it just run around and recharm.
#341
Nov 04 2005 at 3:04 AM
All the suggestions have been named.
Direct communications from an english-speaking representative from SE?
I am in shock.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Direct communications from an english-speaking representative from SE?
I am in shock.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
#342
Nov 04 2005 at 3:05 AM
Scholar
48 posts
Quote:
Ever heard of shifts?
~Blix
~Blix
You really thought I was suggesting that Square would hire a person to sit there for 24 hours straight. You're as bright as the previous guy. I don't think they're going to hire that many people in general. Not unless they double the monthly fee, so they can afford X amount of employees times Y number of legitimate troubles spots times X amount of servers. Don't think so.
#343
Nov 04 2005 at 3:09 AM
Suggestion: Once a BST pet has been charmed and then the leave ability used the Pet remains in a "passive" mode for a certain amount of time. If it is an aggressive mob then let the BST retain a small amount of hate so once the timer is up the pet will aggro the BST if he/she is near.
Suggestion: With the NM's etc once a person/party attacks it why not whisk the monster and party to a BCNM style battleground. (kinda like what happened in FFVII - X)This ensures there can be no mpk, and no other players interfering with party's battle. The only way the people can leave the battle is if they win, or the party is defeated.
Suggestion: the NM's/HNM's only drop rare/ex items (admittedly very desirable items)
Suggestion: Make better use of the Deoderize spell/potion. Its nearly useless atm. Many a time ive got aggro and ran away from the mob casting deodorise to throw it off me but not succeding.
Suggestion: With the NM's etc once a person/party attacks it why not whisk the monster and party to a BCNM style battleground. (kinda like what happened in FFVII - X)This ensures there can be no mpk, and no other players interfering with party's battle. The only way the people can leave the battle is if they win, or the party is defeated.
Suggestion: the NM's/HNM's only drop rare/ex items (admittedly very desirable items)
Suggestion: Make better use of the Deoderize spell/potion. Its nearly useless atm. Many a time ive got aggro and ran away from the mob casting deodorise to throw it off me but not succeding.
#344
Nov 04 2005 at 3:20 AM
Quote:
4) More instanced fighting/forced spawns! ENM's were a wonderful idea and part of the reason I love the CoP expansion so much. They make it impossible to MPK. Forced spawns should despawn after the spawning party has been wiped.
Now I admit I only read the 1st and last page (so forgive me if this was said already, just rate me down and move along karma meanie heads!) but I saw this and went... YES! Instead of putting ??? on it like normal things, you can use a different symbol to spare walker bys from getting sucked into the "oooo a ??? thingy!" phase.... as I know I often get into x.x Or maybe you have to trade a rare/ex item to the ??? to spawn it as we have to do with many, just dont make it so hard to get! Don't do this with all of the nm, but look at your logs SE... you can't possibly tell me you me that you don't see a trend in the areas that a GM is called too in the cases of MPK reports... and if you really dont... look at the message boards more people!!!
The specific server forums are flooded with not only reports of MPK but the people who do them, many with other people on the servers backing up to the claims that these paticular people are big meany heads and with proof! (btw ima cute taru i can talk like this and get away with it ;.; ) IMO atleast 75% of all MPK's are because of greedy, stupid, gilsellers, who ruin the game for everyone! Put an end to a reason for selling gil and you will have a solution to ending MPK's.
My suggestion: I read some posts about limiting the amount of gil you can hold, I don't see this happening. Buuuuuut if you UP the ways of getting gil while putting a limit on how much you can sell things for in AH that may work. It is common knowledge that getting gil in this game is one step above going to the dentist... atleast for me :(... making it easier to get gil negates the fact that people will want to buy it. Having more MOB's drop more gil (say on a if its an IT it drops this much gil, if its a DC it drops this much, so on and so forth, or something like this) while saying you cant sell things in the AH for more then I dunno 10mil, will help stabalize the economy... cause trust me the economy in FF is SHOT! Theres things in the AH for like 100,000,000+... honestly... who has that much gil from legitimet farming? Btw if you do, what is our secret man ><.... If we can get gil a little easier while at the same time not having to spend it all on one piece of equipment, we can put gil sellers out of business, which would make the good players of your wonderful game cheer, shout, and want to eat ice cream ^-^
Yes my idea is very flawed, you can nit pick it or toss it completely. I just think that a good way to cut down MPK is to cut down on the reason people MPK in most cases... to get the drop for the gil ... if we can get gil easier... then we wont have to kill each other for it.
#345
Nov 04 2005 at 3:21 AM
Scholar
44 posts
I do not want to see this game become World of Warcraft. While I realize that MPK is an issue, and have had to deal with this myself many times, some of the ways these things can be done are neccessary to make the game what it is.
Things that do not make the game what it is:
Shadowbind/Bind aggro.
Mobs claimed by another player continuing to attacking you.
Suggestion: Make it harder for a mob with aggro on you to become unclaimed. Running a certain distance ahead of it, or not being engaged aren't good enough reasons for you to lose the claim.
Suggestion: Ensure that when a party is fighting multiple mobs that all mobs being fought remain claimed by that party or alliance.
Suggestion: Going along with this, please work on the way BST works with pets. BSTs losing a claim on Ose due to charming another mob, a Dragoon using Jump on Ose, and Ose continuing to destroy the BST leads to you not feeling great about this game, or the human race for that matter.
One of the things people keep suggesting to get rid of bothers me. Please consider that one thing that does characterize and seperate this game from others is:
Competition.
Edit: Grammar
Edit: Addition
Edited, Fri Nov 4 03:32:16 2005 by ages
Edited, Fri Nov 4 03:35:26 2005 by ages
Things that do not make the game what it is:
Shadowbind/Bind aggro.
Mobs claimed by another player continuing to attacking you.
Suggestion: Make it harder for a mob with aggro on you to become unclaimed. Running a certain distance ahead of it, or not being engaged aren't good enough reasons for you to lose the claim.
Suggestion: Ensure that when a party is fighting multiple mobs that all mobs being fought remain claimed by that party or alliance.
Suggestion: Going along with this, please work on the way BST works with pets. BSTs losing a claim on Ose due to charming another mob, a Dragoon using Jump on Ose, and Ose continuing to destroy the BST leads to you not feeling great about this game, or the human race for that matter.
One of the things people keep suggesting to get rid of bothers me. Please consider that one thing that does characterize and seperate this game from others is:
Competition.
Edit: Grammar
Edit: Addition
Edited, Fri Nov 4 03:32:16 2005 by ages
Edited, Fri Nov 4 03:35:26 2005 by ages
#346
Nov 04 2005 at 3:22 AM
Suggestion: I don't think it would mess up gameplay to much if you reprogrammed pulled mobs and linked mobs to only keep hate for the person/party who pulled/linked them untill said person is either dead or has killed the mobs. If the mobs live and player dies durring link, like many who mpk do, the mobs do not link or pick up hate with any other player again until they return to home' position.
#347
Nov 04 2005 at 3:24 AM
suggestion:
please take community suggestions with great care. people en masse are not known for shrewd decision-making.
please take community suggestions with great care. people en masse are not known for shrewd decision-making.
#348
Nov 04 2005 at 3:29 AM
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,091 posts
Quote:
Get rid of that bind/shadowbind MPK thing. Whenever a player binds a mob next to another player, the monster just attacks that person. What makes it even worse is that the monster name is purple, so the player being attacked can't do anything about it. If he heals himself, he gets more hate. At this point, whoever bound the monster just sits back and watches the player get worked. Please, just get rid of this. It seems like a bug to me.
seriously, move the hell out of the way...something is bound and hitting me, i move the hell out of the way.
if you wanna get rid of mpks, input a pk system in the areas where the mpks tend to happen more often than not, sky large nm camps etc. let me destroy those who try to mpk me, thats fair to me. i remember UO had a criminal/murdere system so that if you did certain actions you became "grey" and thus were attackable.
#349
Nov 04 2005 at 3:35 AM
Sorry if I repeat anything, but I can' read the whole Thread :)
Lets analyze the situation a bit more:
Possibiliys to MPK
- Beastmaster Charm & Release
- Train Mobs to Zone
- Train Mobs to Camp and die / warp / escape to make mobs linking OR aggro.
- Bind a mob next to a party
- Use other mobs AoE attack to deal damage to the other PT.
Reasons to MPK
- Stealing a NM
- Revenge for a stolen NM, if you loose claim for a short time and another party whos spamming stun, flash, chi blast or anything else on it.
- Freeing a camp... I already was in Situations (for example in Kahzam) where there was a big lack of camps, and a PPL trained a few Gobs in our camp and died. We all died or had to zone. When we came back the player who died and his party took over our camp.
- For fun... yes thats bad but there are people who MPK for fun. In Kuftal Tunnel we camped @ Cape Terrigan zone, a player had nothing better to do then run in, grab some Craps and zone. He said "Isn't his fun" and so on... lucky he got banned.
- By accident... if a puller makes a bad pull gets a link and so on and tries to zone it.
- Beat down competeing farmers. If you are on items or scrolls farming tour for example in Oztroia or Beadaux, there are people who are dominating the drop mobs and some of them MPK you for disturbing their farming or competing on their mobs.
For all this problems a solution has to be found
My 2 cents on this
My first thought was: add a hidden status effect to a mob, every hit, spell or "try to hit" (miss) will refresh the status effect. The Status effect does nothing else but blocking all "Detect by" Abilites... but with this methods there are several Problems:
- This Status effect should apply to all links, too.
- You can train a mob easily without hitting him for two minutes (Bind, Sleep), so if you WANT to mpk someone you could do.
A Monsters cool down timer must start when it losses hate / aggro of the initial aggroer (through zoning, warping, dieing).
Unfortunately this would maybe solve the Problem about MPKing at (H)NMs. Not the problem (in my eyes it is one) about Garlaige or Crawlers Nest for example. People can make very very long trains, so a two minute cool down would make the mobs move a bit more away from entrance, but like it always is there is one single idiot (sorry) who runs in and trains it again.
I like the idea more that a monster must get back to its Spawn area to aggro again. Like, when a Monster spawns it generates a (invisible) circle of a few meters around its spawn point. Only if the monster is in this area it is able to aggro. The problem with this method is, that it should only apply on certain monsters. Maybe if GMs analyze the Situation more, which mobs are used to mpk and where. Or add this feature zonewise where the MPK rates are highest. Cause if this applies to every mob this would make Dynamis very easy, maybe too easy. If you can reraise directly after you died without any aggro.
For the Bind aggro... monsters who are binded shouldn't attack people who haven't generated a certain amount of hate. This should only apply to normal Mobs and not to NMs, cause I think this would make the Shadowbind / Bind Technique in Gods much easier, cause it could be that it doesn't aggro player anymore that are not in Alliance.
AoE damage... if yout limit this only to party/alliance members this would be a too big change. I think if Kirin/God fight as well as exp camps. If something like the mandy sleep AoE wouldn't effect all PT members, or a Goblins Suicide Bomb Toss I see PTs campe next to each other like chicken in a stable...
Another thought what could reduce the MPK ammount... make people fighting certain (not every!) NM immune to aggro for the duration of the battle. Okay... this is a very silly thought, but maybe you can work with it.
About the comment I read about the "light" in the GM Central as warner befor a NM pops. This should be taken very very carefully... I can imagin that someone has a tool soon then to see when what NM popps where... {No, thanks}.
If you need any beta testers for the System. I think many players would be lucky if they are allowed to MPK some GMs fighting a HNM (only for Testing of course) XD
Just kidding.
Lets analyze the situation a bit more:
Possibiliys to MPK
- Beastmaster Charm & Release
- Train Mobs to Zone
- Train Mobs to Camp and die / warp / escape to make mobs linking OR aggro.
- Bind a mob next to a party
- Use other mobs AoE attack to deal damage to the other PT.
Reasons to MPK
- Stealing a NM
- Revenge for a stolen NM, if you loose claim for a short time and another party whos spamming stun, flash, chi blast or anything else on it.
- Freeing a camp... I already was in Situations (for example in Kahzam) where there was a big lack of camps, and a PPL trained a few Gobs in our camp and died. We all died or had to zone. When we came back the player who died and his party took over our camp.
- For fun... yes thats bad but there are people who MPK for fun. In Kuftal Tunnel we camped @ Cape Terrigan zone, a player had nothing better to do then run in, grab some Craps and zone. He said "Isn't his fun" and so on... lucky he got banned.
- By accident... if a puller makes a bad pull gets a link and so on and tries to zone it.
- Beat down competeing farmers. If you are on items or scrolls farming tour for example in Oztroia or Beadaux, there are people who are dominating the drop mobs and some of them MPK you for disturbing their farming or competing on their mobs.
For all this problems a solution has to be found
My 2 cents on this
My first thought was: add a hidden status effect to a mob, every hit, spell or "try to hit" (miss) will refresh the status effect. The Status effect does nothing else but blocking all "Detect by" Abilites... but with this methods there are several Problems:
- This Status effect should apply to all links, too.
- You can train a mob easily without hitting him for two minutes (Bind, Sleep), so if you WANT to mpk someone you could do.
A Monsters cool down timer must start when it losses hate / aggro of the initial aggroer (through zoning, warping, dieing).
Unfortunately this would maybe solve the Problem about MPKing at (H)NMs. Not the problem (in my eyes it is one) about Garlaige or Crawlers Nest for example. People can make very very long trains, so a two minute cool down would make the mobs move a bit more away from entrance, but like it always is there is one single idiot (sorry) who runs in and trains it again.
I like the idea more that a monster must get back to its Spawn area to aggro again. Like, when a Monster spawns it generates a (invisible) circle of a few meters around its spawn point. Only if the monster is in this area it is able to aggro. The problem with this method is, that it should only apply on certain monsters. Maybe if GMs analyze the Situation more, which mobs are used to mpk and where. Or add this feature zonewise where the MPK rates are highest. Cause if this applies to every mob this would make Dynamis very easy, maybe too easy. If you can reraise directly after you died without any aggro.
For the Bind aggro... monsters who are binded shouldn't attack people who haven't generated a certain amount of hate. This should only apply to normal Mobs and not to NMs, cause I think this would make the Shadowbind / Bind Technique in Gods much easier, cause it could be that it doesn't aggro player anymore that are not in Alliance.
AoE damage... if yout limit this only to party/alliance members this would be a too big change. I think if Kirin/God fight as well as exp camps. If something like the mandy sleep AoE wouldn't effect all PT members, or a Goblins Suicide Bomb Toss I see PTs campe next to each other like chicken in a stable...
Another thought what could reduce the MPK ammount... make people fighting certain (not every!) NM immune to aggro for the duration of the battle. Okay... this is a very silly thought, but maybe you can work with it.
About the comment I read about the "light" in the GM Central as warner befor a NM pops. This should be taken very very carefully... I can imagin that someone has a tool soon then to see when what NM popps where... {No, thanks}.
If you need any beta testers for the System. I think many players would be lucky if they are allowed to MPK some GMs fighting a HNM (only for Testing of course) XD
Just kidding.
#350
Nov 04 2005 at 3:36 AM
Aryden wrote:
Quote:
Get rid of that bind/shadowbind MPK thing. Whenever a player binds a mob next to another player, the monster just attacks that person. What makes it even worse is that the monster name is purple, so the player being attacked can't do anything about it. If he heals himself, he gets more hate. At this point, whoever bound the monster just sits back and watches the player get worked. Please, just get rid of this. It seems like a bug to me.
seriously, move the hell out of the way...something is bound and hitting me, i move the hell out of the way.
Yeah, you form an exp party in CN, and be in the middle of a fight with a link when a BLM binds a lizard on your party and you tell me t move instantly before I start getting whacked. Get a clue, don't be so dense, and quit trying to derail this thread with needless smartass comments.
Final Fantasy XI: MIDGARDSORMR ♥
75:W A R// ::retired::
World of Warcraft: Crushridge [H]
Oztroja:D R U I D
75:W A R// ::retired::
World of Warcraft: Crushridge [H]
Oztroja:D R U I D
#351
Nov 04 2005 at 3:42 AM
A couple of thoughts from a professional game designer who loves playing FF11
1) Make it so that linked/claimed mobs by other parties don't aggro any alliance fighting NMs and HNMs until they have returned to thier original spawn position after becoming unclaimed.
2) Any initial attack on an unclaimed monster from a person or party other then the one to last attacked it will cause all previous hate to be erased. (checking last attacker is to make sure that a party doesn't disengage and re-engage to erase hate)
3) AOE moves from all none HNM monsters should affect only the party that is fighting it.
4) Bound monsters should not attack any players unless they have sufficient hate
1) Make it so that linked/claimed mobs by other parties don't aggro any alliance fighting NMs and HNMs until they have returned to thier original spawn position after becoming unclaimed.
2) Any initial attack on an unclaimed monster from a person or party other then the one to last attacked it will cause all previous hate to be erased. (checking last attacker is to make sure that a party doesn't disengage and re-engage to erase hate)
3) AOE moves from all none HNM monsters should affect only the party that is fighting it.
4) Bound monsters should not attack any players unless they have sufficient hate
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