Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow

Welcome to the forums. You can see by my rating I'm not much of a veteran on these boards. I do however, despise MPK. And that is tied directly in with GilSelling and Opportunism.

Suggestion: Hire me as a GM. Give me the responsibility to root out MPK'ers whether gil sellers or opportunistic players trying to clear out an area. Let me be the executioner. Let me have enhanced GM powers... i.e. Pull out my trusty sword/bow/axe/dagger, whatever and dole out damage to the offending party. Damage which, based on level of damage done, determines the fate of the offender.. jail time to ban.. (I'm just under 6 figures in income, so you'll have to pay well)

Suggestion: Keep the aoe as is. There are other zones to pt in besides the ones being most predominantly complained about. The problems are no where near as bad in those alternate locations. For low to mid levels anyway.

Suggestion: Leave the BST job alone. If the GM's do their job, and are provided the tools to do their job adequately, MPK'ing Bst's can be gotten rid of.

Suggestion: When a train hits the zone, all mobs within a certain radius of the zone, (the one's closest to the actual zone point) get warped back to their spawn point. The remaining stragglers get to walk back, and cause a little excitement on the way. NO aggro for like 2 min's, but then, anyone who saw the train go by would be ready for them.

Suggestion: (I have been MPK'd twice. Once by an unnamed BST, who no longer plays and once by a KNOWN Gilseller and his cronies. I was MPK'd because I was (with my pt) close to where an HNM pops. He and his cronies went in, grabbed every skele and other mob they could, trained them past us, and throughout the low end of the zone. GM was called. Nada. Nuttin. Zip. Zilch.) []So, either get the useless GM's to do their job, eradicate Gil sellers, which will eradicate a BUNCH of MPK'ing, or see Suggestion #1 above[/][]So, either get the useless GM's to do their job, eradicate Gil sellers, which will eradicate a BUNCH of MPK'ing, or see Suggestion #1 above[/].

Thanks for coming in.. Hope to hear more from the developers!!

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Titan - Dilligaf - Hume - Sandy
60rng/34war/33nin/32sam/28mnk/18drg/17thf/13pld/13rdm/11blm/10bst
Flikted - Elvaan - Sandy - 37war Retired
Retardaru - Taru - Sandy - 37blm Retired (maybe)

I think it's awesome that you guys are asking for feedback.. and I know some people have commented on this before, but I'm going to pipe in and ditto it. Instead of changing the game, how about actually enforcing the rules? If people knew MPKs would have consequences, they wouldn't do it. As is, I am a fairly law abiding citizen, but if someone pissed me off, I wouldn't think twice about MPKing them - because I know there would be no repercussions. If you guys actually enforced the rules you set forth, it wouldn't be nearly the problem it is now.

For the record... the same applies to gilselling. If you didn't allow it, it wouldn't be a problem. (and yes, it IS a problem!)

I have not posted to this site in a very very long time, that beening said on the topic of MPK. To me the problem is not the fact of MPK, basically why do people MPK because it potential can be a short cut to making them gil. User will try to "steal" a mob from a player to get the drop and sell it. So this is a gil based problem, and usually applies to NM/HNM situations. The link/aggro system is pretty much fine the way it is (its part of the game); but how players abuse this system, and why they abuse it is at the heart of the problem. GM monitoring great idea, most likely not 100% in SE best interests (labor and cost). As of late the decision for SE to make certain items Rare/Exe has reduced/cured the problem with those particual items (i.e. Archer rings, Peacock charm, Emperor's Hairpin). I would concede this is not a viable solution for all, but may be a solution for many. So to me the problem is really not the MPK but is the gil system and rewards system. BCNM fights are great solutions, isolated battle fields, and access to these areas requiring unlocking quests to get access are also nice ideas to me.

In reference to trains, that is a decision on the person pulling the train, and the party that puller is pulling for. "Do I drag all these things back to the zone to save my skin and possible K.O. others or just take a K.O.". It is unfortunate but most players think save my own skin (keep going with the xp)and drop the beasties on others to deal with. Leveling areas with a high density of parties and linking mobs this becomes a real issue (i.e. Garlaige Citadel,Yuhtunga Jungle). There are good pullers and very bad pullers, by changing the aggro system that will be taking out some of the stratagy of the party dynamics(that is my opinion).

My final note on this is my pure hatered for RMTs and people who buy gil on-line. Of the 2 the later irrates me more, because it is they who allow the RMTs to have a business. I have hours of venom on this, but I will keep that out of this thread.

I expect some flames for this post, so let em fly.

Edit* The Shadowbind "trick" should be a reason for banning the player. (I assume SE has logs to verify these types of actions and could take action after the incident).

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player: Tadooi and Tadooii
Server: Slyph

Edited, Fri Nov 4 11:08:03 2005 by Tadooi

I see you have alot of replies so im not sure if you'll get around to this but i think the hardest part for you is you should make some clear examples of people known to do this regulary. the most unpsetting thing about camping a HNM for hours only to be MPK'd is the people who do it are in "GM Jail" for 10 minutes then back to thier game. just down right delete their charactor or take away any items they got from the kill. Delete their accounts on them, there all gil sellers anyway. ps everyone on the server finds out who MPK's the hard way im sure GM's know who it is to.

I forget who posted that, it was back on page 2 or 3. This is definitely a good idea. This reduces the need to have GMs patrol spawn points (and times) of all Highlvl NMs.

Suggestion Mob Linking System: If mobs are trained by someone (who gathered hate) then that person leaves the dungeon, the mobs return to their original spawns w/o linking. -OR- suggestion 1. on intimidation thing. I like that alot.

And in the end if there are enough GM resources available, or Perhaps they can take up players (after doing 1 on 1 interviews) to sit in on 24hr NM spawns(and all high lvl NMs). These players would have a direct contact method with their Supervising GM to report any MPK and lagging out problems from people fighting ontop of a HNM' alliance' tank, etc. <- this was also suggested somewhere on page 2 or 3, but its a goodie too.

Welcome to Allakhazam. Thank you for taking the time to come ask the community for input directly, and listening to our suggestions.

I haven't read the entire thread, so my apologies if my suggestions have already been mentioned:

Suggestion: Make it so AOE Attacks will only affect those characters that are on the mob's hate list.

AOE attacks such as Self-Destruct, Goblin Bombs, and the AOE Drain that undead do are often the cause of MPK. It's too easy for someone to claim a mob with a powerful AOE, bring it over to where another party is fighting, and simply wait for the mob's AOE to do its damage. Even a relatively weak AOE can cause major problems if you're fighting a difficult battle of your own, or if many weaker mobs are brought over at once.

By having the AOE affect only those on the mob's hate list, it should eliminate MPK, while still allowing the mob to attack people outside of the party that is fighting it. This is important, because if the mob's AOEs are restricted to only those in the party/alliance that is fighting it, it becomes possible to have an invincible healing team by simply putting all your RDM and WHM outside of your main alliance. Instead, if the restriction is for those on the hate list, healers outside the alliance would still be vulnerable to AOE attacks if they cure anyone in the main alliance.

This shouldn't cause a problem for MPK though, since you would have to physically attack the mob, or cast a spell on the MPKer in order to get on the mob's hate list. If you're silly enough to do that, then you're asking for the MPK anyway, and since you're actually assisting the MPKer, it's not really an MPK. It's your own fault for getting involved.

Suggestion: Add an additional "Recovery" state for monsters that will eliminate Aggressive behaviour, and alter the Link Behaviour.

Currently there are only two states for mobs. Claimed (Red/Purple Name) and Unclaimed (Yellow Name). Similarly, charmed mobs are either Unclaimed (Yellow) or Charmed (Cyan). MPK is possible because when mobs go from Claimed to Unclaimed, or Charmed to Uncharmed, those mobs can link with the mobs that other parties are fighting, or if they are aggressive mobs, they can choose to attack another party.

If an additional "Recovery" state was added, this problem could be eliminated, without affecting the current link/aggro system, which works well when there is no outside interference from other players. I see it working like this:

1) A mob spawns in an Unclaimed state. After a brief inactivity period, it becomes active, and will link and aggro. It will link with Claimed Mobs, and mobs in the new Recovery state.

2) When the mob is claimed, it goes to the Claimed state (Red/Purple name). At the moment that it is claimed, it sends out a "Help Me!" signal to other mobs in the area. Any mobs within range that are permitted to link will do so.

3) When the mob is unclaimed (due to death, warp, Leave, etc), instead of going to the Unclaimed state, they enter a new Recovery state. The mob's name will turn a new colour while in this state. In this state, the mob will not link with claimed mobs or other mobs that are in the Recovery state, and it will not aggro. It will, however, respond to the "Help Me!" signal that is sent out when a mob first goes from Unclaimed -> Claimed and will link with that mob. When in the Recovery state, the mob will move towards its spawn point, and recover health. It won't exit the Recovery state until it has both Full Health, and is near the area where it spawns. The mob can be claimed while it is in this state, and when it is claimed, it will send out a "Help Me!" signal, just like an Unclaimed Mob will.

4) If a mob is aggroed, but not claimed (For example, when you just walk too close to a Goblin), it will go from an Unclaimed state to this new "Recovery" state while chasing its prey. Unclaimed mobs may still link with mobs in this state.

For BST pets, the same rules above apply, but instead of the "Claimed" state, it's the "Charmed" state.

This should eliminate MPK, while not affecting the current system too much. Basically, this new state targets the two specific ways to MPK someone by pulling a mob near them then losing hate:

1) It's a linking mob that links with what they are fighting. This is eliminated because the mob will enter a Recovery state, and in this state it is not permitted to link with Claimed mobs. It can only link with unclaimed mobs, and those mobs that are being pulled (changing states), not mobs that are currently being fought (staying in "claimed" state, even if "claim" moves around a bit like it does in an alliance).

2) It's an aggro mob that aggros the party. This is eliminated, because the mob will enter a Recovery state, and will no longer aggro unless it is attacked.

As a side effect of this solution, since the "Recovery" state has a different colour name, Beastmaster Pets that are recovering after being released will have a different colour name. This will help prevent people from pulling BST pets for XP, since it will be clear that the mob is not fully recovered, and may not grant XP when killed. Its sometimes difficult to see on the HP bar whether the mob is at 99% or 100%. The name colour change associated with the new state will make it perfectly clear.

Suggestion: Bound mobs should only attack people on its hate list.

Another way to MPK people is to claim a mob, bring it over to the people you wish to kill, and Bind it. When the mob is bound, it will lash out at anyone that is in range. This should not be possible. The mob should continue to lash out at anyone that is in range that is on that mob's hate list (which would cover everyone in the party with claim, and anyone outside the party who is assisting that party with cures, etc). But it shouldn't lash out at players that aren't actively involved in a battle with that mob.

Suggestion: Claiming a mob should reset hate, if the mob is claimed by someone that is not currently on the mob's hate list and not in a party/alliance with someone on the mob's hate list.

Another way to MPK someone is to get claim on a mob that they have a substantial amount of hate on. For example, if Player A repeatedly casts Sleep on a mob, they build up a substantial amount of hate. Player B comes along, and attacks the sleeping mob, causing it to wake up. Since Player B did not deal much damage to the mob, it continues to attack Player A, since Player A has more hate. If the mob were to reset hate when it is claimed by a person that is not on the hate list, it would eliminate this problem.

There is potential for abuse though, since the party's tank is unlikely to be on the hate list for a mob that a mage has been sleeping over and over again. When the tank claims the sleeping mob, it would reset hate...

To solve this, the hate should only be reset only if the mob currently has no hate for the person claiming (so outside healers can't reset hate by temporarily claiming the mob), and the person is not partied with someone that has hate (so if the tank for the party claims the mob when the party is ready to fight, the mage that's been sleeping it will still have hate).

A good idea President, except that RMT will just bring a lvl 1 mule to get the next "Limited" item, sell it, delete the char, create a new one for the next camp.

Customized Aggressive Personalities

Trying find one solution for MPKing in general is futile because MPK
Happens for many reasons. Purposely or accidental, the solution needs to be
Adjusted to be relevant for the situation and aggressive behavior needs to be customized for each type of monster. Meaning, "what pisses these
Monsters off in the first place?"

Starting off in lower levels of game play and working up to higher
levels. I'll give examples of way's the monster's aggressiveness can be altered to control MPK.

Examples
_________________

1. Goblins -
Terrorizing game play from the Dunes till the Jungle. Many deaths are
The result of accidental MPK, some are on purpose. However, the nature of
The game and a goblins behavior is simple. Scavenge all day, look for
Weaklings and take em out. They'll chase you across the span of Vana'diel if they could. If you chain a group of these to the zone, they may kill you.
Then when you are dead, they'll kill the next person they see, and so on.

Solution: When a monster(s) is zoned to another non-city area, or
Position within the same map zone far away from it's spawn point. Behavior
Should stay the same as it is except the period of time it takes for the
monster to become aggressive again should be extended. Perhaps the Goblin is tired from chasing or its busy chatting with it's friend about the noob he just chased down and killed. Fact is, game now leaves little time for a person to react to a chain of mobs that shouldn't be where they were
accidently/purposely brought to and more time needs to be allotted for that.

More creatively, when a Gob is zoned into a city area, like Selbina or
Khazam, in my opinoin these zones are realitvely open for anyone/anything to
walk into. What is preventing monsters from walking into these zones and
destroying the entire city? A magic force field? I think not. City Gaurdian
type NPCs would be the more logical choice. Maybe they come out automatically when a player zones an aggressive monster. Or maybe the
Player activates something similar to the "call for help" option while zoning.

2. Aggressive Beast Type Monsters -
Bats, Crawlers, Flies, Beetles, crabs etc. Common mobs from level 35
and up. These are not intelligent creatures. Their behavior, plain and simple "You walked into my nest, now you must die." And all their friends share the same opinion.

Solution: You stirred up the nest (spawn point) you must pay. Of
course! You walk into the Lion's den, you'll get hacked to shreds. This doesn't necessarily mean the mobs need to chase you across the entire zone.
Aggressive beasts only attack you for being too close to their nest.
So, maybe they only chase you away a decent distance from their nest, but
Not wander off too far because they have to go back and protect their nest
From more predators. Then when on their way back, they are away from the
nest so only attack after they are challenged. Exception of course, to the Mobs who may be out hunting, like Tigers.

3. HNM
These seem to be the main issue. However, these are the rare circumstances. And rareness calls for unique customization.

Solution: These bad boys need to cause an up-roaring behavior in the Monsters of the surrounding area. But customized to the situation. For example: if a Queen bee was an HNM, then perhaps all the bees in the area would aggro anything to protect it. But in other cases I think the surrounding area monsters should become fear stricken and unable to act in their normal behavior. Maybe they run in circles like under some kind of histeroanima spell and they don't enter a certain area around the HNM. Or maybe they get some kind of a "beast sense" where a few minutes before the HNM spawn they start acting crazy.

4. Releasing

Solution: They should dissapear, like a summon.

Ok I've rambled enough.

Edited, Fri Nov 4 11:50:20 2005 by Oddyseus

There are a lot of great suggestions on here that I won't repeat. Here are my two cents, tho! ^_^

Suggestion: Take MPK calls much more seriously. Obviously you can't believe 1 or 2 random calls. However, when there are 10+ ppl all telling GM's that someone is MPKing toss them in jail.

Suggestion: A lot of MPKers seem to be RMTers. Here's a radical idea. Make it more like EQ where gil buying is acceptable thru an approved SE website. Seems to me that would make for a lot less MPKing. Then you'd only have to deal with the psychopaths trying to ruin the game for everyone. Plus, SE would be reaping the profits of those too lazy to go and earn their own gil like the rest of us do.

Everyone says the GMs need to be more active, but nobody has made a reasonable suggestion for how they can be more active. Having GMs posted at these NM spots continually will mean fewer GMs will be available to deal with all the other problems, and having them come in at random times when the NMs are spawed will mean only a small percentage of the total MPKers (the ones who were there at the same time as the GM) will be caught. Plus, both of these solutions only look at the problem with MPKing during NM battles, not MPKing as a whole.

Suggestion: Obviously, the GMs can't respond instantly to any call (unless it's a very slow day, but on average they'll have a queue). However, when someone is reported for MPK, particularly when someone is reported by mulitple users or on multiple occasions, the GMs can make a note of the user who was reported and keep track of them to observe them when they MPK again. If the user was reported as having MPKed while farming normal monsters, watch that player the next time they farm that area (or, if the player is still farming when the GM call reaches the top of the queue, watch them right then). If the user was reported as having MPKed during an NM battle, watch that user the next time they are fighting that NM. The more reports that a user has against them, the more often they should be tracked. That way, the GMs can focus on catching the worst repeat offenders, and those who have been reported falsely (or those who have only MPKed once and will never do so again) can be ignored. Perhaps one GM at a time could be dedicated to watching those users, leaving the other GMs to continue dealing with other problems.

HI if you're still reading ...

My main concern is "Accidental mpk". Typical example is whilst fighting a mob you get a link, sleep the link and it turns yellow again. If someone else (non party/alliance) attacks the mob it will awake and more often than not have more hate on the sleeper than the new attacker. This means you are being attacked by a mob you can't attack/sleep etc.

-The one to two minute immunity from zoned mobs is a great idea. Walking into Garliage and having 15 bats attack you all at once bites.

-The mob walking all the way back to its spawnpoint w/o aggroing is a bad idea. The parties in the area should just get together and kill the zoned mob...teamwork people!!

-This is the answer: If a person aggroes a mob, and decides to bind/release/hide near another player, where that mob is in aggro radius, that mob should use a drawing-in ability similar to the Mimic's ability to keep a player from running away, until the other player (the passerby) is safely out of aggro range. This forces people who get aggro to deal w/their mobs w/o involving innocent passerby's, and allowing the innocent a few seconds to figure out how to survive. It shouldn't be to hard to make a code that senses aggro range and activates the drawing-in ability as soon as one of the above mentioned ja are used.