ok what is PMK?
Well my idea is prity much the same as others here but there are
1.) Restrict the number of mobs that can link, keeping the train small for number of resion like making sure farmers are not been too gredy with the mobs so others can farm or lvl up and to stop a bottle neck of mobs at the zone point (I head about this problem and a GM had to come and clean it out in the Crawlers nest)
2.) Stoping mobs from agroing others after there have been zoned till there reach there orignal spot again.
3.) making sure others not involved in the fight what so every not to get damage or hit from a mobs speical attacks or attacked at all.
4.) Beast to have say a 30 sec cooling down perated before it could agro the bst.
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- Suggestions for changing the MPK system
Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#553
Nov 04 2005 at 10:32 PM
Quote:
Suggestion: make it so that when someone claims an unclaimed mob it loses all hate for everyone except the claimer. This is to stop the terrible situation where person A is fighting a mob, gets a link, then player B claims the mob with one ranged attack or something then runs off. Poor player A then ends up being beatzed up by a mob that he can't fight back.
I can't agree with this enough. Please implement this.
#554
Nov 04 2005 at 10:49 PM
5 posts
Personally I liked the idea that someone suggested of when someone zones a mob, or a train, the mob/train run into the wall for the zone and reappear in their orginal start points/area. This would be extremely helpful for exp. places that constantly have people zoning links.
#555
Nov 04 2005 at 10:54 PM
13 posts
Suggestion: +Fun.
Lots of people have stated: "Have a GM stationed near NM spawn points in order to take action if needed"
My tagline onto that would be - Have the GM bind and make targetable the MPK'r. Ballista Garliage Citadel? 64 campers vs. 1 idiot MPKer. Heck, have them after death force Home Point and lose XP.
Dunno, just for fun, but one way of negating the problem and allowing a little "fun" revenge for the attempt.
Lots of people have stated: "Have a GM stationed near NM spawn points in order to take action if needed"
My tagline onto that would be - Have the GM bind and make targetable the MPK'r. Ballista Garliage Citadel? 64 campers vs. 1 idiot MPKer. Heck, have them after death force Home Point and lose XP.
Dunno, just for fun, but one way of negating the problem and allowing a little "fun" revenge for the attempt.
#556
Nov 04 2005 at 11:33 PM
It's nice to see a Square-Enix representative coming here! I hope to see you more often, and I hope my suggestion isn't so far down that you've stopped reading.
Some suggestions already on this thread that I agree with:
Suggestion: Monsters that are currently being fought and have hate for a player should *not* go unclaimed. Right now it's pretty easy to kill other characters just by stealing claim. Suggestion: Monsters should only attack person who has hate when bound, not just anyone that's close. Suggestion: Monsters shouldn't aggro for 1-2 minutes after they've been dragged or released a certain distance from their spawn point. Simply having them not aggro until they're back at the spawn might be too extreme. Suggestion: Monsters released by a Beastmaster (perhaps limited to one per Beastmaster) should remained claimed for 1-2 minutes after release. Suggestion: There should be a limit to the amount of monsters that can link. Suggestion: Monsters should give up chasing a player after a certain distance or amount of time. Suggestion: High-demand NM's should become more available. The challenge should be in defeating the monster, not waiting for a spawn and outclaiming competitors.
Also, I would suggest:
Suggestion: Beastmasters should be able to Charm monsters on which other players have called for help.
Some of these other suggestions are just really bad, in my opinion:
Anti-Suggestion: Monsters shouldn't link with other monsters currently being fought. Anti-Suggestion: Monsters, even if claimed, should link to monsters being fought by higher level players. Anti-Suggestion: Aggressive monsters shouldn't be able to be released by Beastmasters. Anti-Suggestion: Misplaced monsters should despawn or return home at a fast pace.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 09:53:15 2005 by Gomek
Some suggestions already on this thread that I agree with:
Also, I would suggest:
Some of these other suggestions are just really bad, in my opinion:
Edited, Sun Nov 6 09:53:15 2005 by Gomek
#557
Nov 04 2005 at 11:34 PM
1 post
Hmmm... I myself have skipped quite a few pages... too much to read. Anyway like what some people say why poeple MPK. Gil > Money > Greed.
My sugguestion, is that you will need to add some sort of quota based rules on characters. Seeing the same groups of ppl camping NMs and selling same items in the AH, gets abit frustrating. Someone posted that items from NMs should become "More" rare, but in my opinion that wont solve the problem, as the "gilfarmers" will still continue camping and killing NMs and maybe MPK people in the process. In the end result, makes the item harder to get for the person that actually wants use item.
Here are some general rules that i just thought of:
- A character only can kill/claim a NM once per X days/weeks
- Repeated NMs farmers will start to see the NM less frequent (i.e. hidden from the characters point of view), but actually the NMs do show up on Non-NM farmers
- Other rules that I havent thought of.
These rules may reduce the urge of MPKing ppl in those areas
In the end, we bought this game to have fun. Not to earm money =P
My sugguestion, is that you will need to add some sort of quota based rules on characters. Seeing the same groups of ppl camping NMs and selling same items in the AH, gets abit frustrating. Someone posted that items from NMs should become "More" rare, but in my opinion that wont solve the problem, as the "gilfarmers" will still continue camping and killing NMs and maybe MPK people in the process. In the end result, makes the item harder to get for the person that actually wants use item.
Here are some general rules that i just thought of:
- A character only can kill/claim a NM once per X days/weeks
- Repeated NMs farmers will start to see the NM less frequent (i.e. hidden from the characters point of view), but actually the NMs do show up on Non-NM farmers
- Other rules that I havent thought of.
These rules may reduce the urge of MPKing ppl in those areas
In the end, we bought this game to have fun. Not to earm money =P
#558
Nov 04 2005 at 11:34 PM
This post goes off of the MPK topic, but I believe that it contains important issues that should be thought about.
Suggestion: Make it impossible to call for help on notorious monsters. If someone calls for help on a notorious monster, the onlookers will still just wait for the person that CFHed to die, then claim and kill the notorious monster. There are many accidents regarding HNMs where people accidenly call for help, when there is no reason to. In many people's opinions, it's better off for a group to wipe, than to CFH.
Suggestion: Make it impossible to perform exp denial with spikes effect. Party A (Lv. 20) is fighting a monster, and person B (Lv. 50) cures a person from party A, making the monster attack person B. If person B has a spikes effect on, and the monster manages to hit them, then person B is considered to have help kill the monster, and party A will get no experience points. If people dont know about /blockaid, this can be a problem.
Suggestion: Remove the gilsellers. There are infamous sellers on Pandenonium that monopolize the same notorious monsters every day. I believe they have been reported many times for monopolization, and yet they're still there. It's hard enough to make gil, it's even harder to deal with the inflation that the gil buyers create. If someone is reported for monopolization, monitor their activity to see if it's true, then confront them on it.
Suggestion: Make it equally easy for all jobs to claim monsters. How is someone whose fastest claim is dia supposed to compete with the characters that have provoke, charm, stun, etc? Were some jobs meant to be able to claim monsters more quickly than others? My suggestion is to make a claim ability useable by all jobs that gives that person claim over a monster, without aggroing the monster. The player would then have a few seconds in which to properly claim the monster with an ability, spell, auto-attack, etc.
Suggestion: Make it impossible to call for help on notorious monsters. If someone calls for help on a notorious monster, the onlookers will still just wait for the person that CFHed to die, then claim and kill the notorious monster. There are many accidents regarding HNMs where people accidenly call for help, when there is no reason to. In many people's opinions, it's better off for a group to wipe, than to CFH.
Suggestion: Make it impossible to perform exp denial with spikes effect. Party A (Lv. 20) is fighting a monster, and person B (Lv. 50) cures a person from party A, making the monster attack person B. If person B has a spikes effect on, and the monster manages to hit them, then person B is considered to have help kill the monster, and party A will get no experience points. If people dont know about /blockaid, this can be a problem.
Suggestion: Remove the gilsellers. There are infamous sellers on Pandenonium that monopolize the same notorious monsters every day. I believe they have been reported many times for monopolization, and yet they're still there. It's hard enough to make gil, it's even harder to deal with the inflation that the gil buyers create. If someone is reported for monopolization, monitor their activity to see if it's true, then confront them on it.
Suggestion: Make it equally easy for all jobs to claim monsters. How is someone whose fastest claim is dia supposed to compete with the characters that have provoke, charm, stun, etc? Were some jobs meant to be able to claim monsters more quickly than others? My suggestion is to make a claim ability useable by all jobs that gives that person claim over a monster, without aggroing the monster. The player would then have a few seconds in which to properly claim the monster with an ability, spell, auto-attack, etc.
#559
Nov 04 2005 at 11:56 PM
8 posts
This is quite a long thread and I have only read about a third of the posts, so please take that into consideration if I have suggested something that has already been suggested. I am also a lowbie, so I have no experience with HNMs and the like. In saying that, pardon me if some of my suggestions are already implemented in the game and I am simply ignorant of that. I also do not believe that changing the game mechanics entirely to eliminate the possibility of MPKing will work. Rather I am suggesting incremental changes that will discourage player behaviour, not change the game drastically.
Suggestion: Tweak the hate mechanism. Make distance traveled decrease hate. So if a mob simply links with another, after a while it will not have any hate left, so it will stop chasing the horde. This would also apply to players running away from a mob. Say they catch aggro, run away, and are being hit. The effect should be that after a certain amount of hate is shed, the hate the mob gets from whatever (hitting the player?) reaches zero, and the mob just stops.
Suggestion: Tweak the linking mechanism. Instead of mobs just all following one that is after a player, make it have a chance of following that mob. The factors that should influence the chance should be if they are within sight/sound/smell radius of the player, and how much hate the mob that they would link with has.
Suggestion: Change the way that mobs react when they transition from claimed to unclaimed. They should be "dazed" for a few seconds, perhaps like 10. They are completely non-aggressive during this period unless someone does something that has a direct effect on that mob (such as shooting it with an arrow). After this period, they simply wander back to their original roaming area, but at the maxium speed for that mob. If they are still aggressive and linking, then they still are during this period.
Suggestion: Change detection mechanisms. First of all, why in the world is smell so underused? Anyway, have a reduced detection range when a mob is moving. Doesn't this just make sense? For example, when you are walking, it is harder to hear footsteps 20 feet behind you. For sight based mobs, the cone shrinks, for sound based mobs, the radius shrinks... and there are no smell based mobs. As soon as they come to a stop, it goes back to normal.
Suggestion: Change the way a GM call works. Instead of just being stuck in a que, where the people currently being dealt with are being told that they have no proof, meanwhile, your proof is occuring and it will be way to late by the time a GM makes it there, have stuff logged. All chat, nearby occurances, and the like so that a GM will actually have material to review when they get there. Don't log everything all the time, but log when a GM call is made (perhaps with a maximum of 30 minutes), and don't delete it until a GM has seen it. Perhaps that would allow for some actual enforcement. On a side suggestion, perhaps this feature could be separated from a GM call, so that if you think you are going to be MPKed, you can use it, and if nothing happens, a GM is not called and the logs are deleted an hour later. Also allow dead people to use these features.
Suggestion: Let the GMs maintain a presence in the different worlds. I have never even seen a GM in my year of playing, although I have been told that some people were calling GMs. If they were more visible, perhaps they would be taken a bit more seriously. Instead of them communicating primarily through /tells, let them appear and /say what they have to say. A warning to a player might not mean anything, but a stern warning to that player overhear by all the players in /say range might make the person think more carefully about it. That would also instill some faith in players who have never even seen a GM that rules are there and will be enforced.
Other than that, I would just like to say {Thank you} for listening. It is quite refreshing to get some confirmation that SE want input from it's player base.
Suggestion: Tweak the hate mechanism. Make distance traveled decrease hate. So if a mob simply links with another, after a while it will not have any hate left, so it will stop chasing the horde. This would also apply to players running away from a mob. Say they catch aggro, run away, and are being hit. The effect should be that after a certain amount of hate is shed, the hate the mob gets from whatever (hitting the player?) reaches zero, and the mob just stops.
Suggestion: Tweak the linking mechanism. Instead of mobs just all following one that is after a player, make it have a chance of following that mob. The factors that should influence the chance should be if they are within sight/sound/smell radius of the player, and how much hate the mob that they would link with has.
Suggestion: Change the way that mobs react when they transition from claimed to unclaimed. They should be "dazed" for a few seconds, perhaps like 10. They are completely non-aggressive during this period unless someone does something that has a direct effect on that mob (such as shooting it with an arrow). After this period, they simply wander back to their original roaming area, but at the maxium speed for that mob. If they are still aggressive and linking, then they still are during this period.
Suggestion: Change detection mechanisms. First of all, why in the world is smell so underused? Anyway, have a reduced detection range when a mob is moving. Doesn't this just make sense? For example, when you are walking, it is harder to hear footsteps 20 feet behind you. For sight based mobs, the cone shrinks, for sound based mobs, the radius shrinks... and there are no smell based mobs. As soon as they come to a stop, it goes back to normal.
Suggestion: Change the way a GM call works. Instead of just being stuck in a que, where the people currently being dealt with are being told that they have no proof, meanwhile, your proof is occuring and it will be way to late by the time a GM makes it there, have stuff logged. All chat, nearby occurances, and the like so that a GM will actually have material to review when they get there. Don't log everything all the time, but log when a GM call is made (perhaps with a maximum of 30 minutes), and don't delete it until a GM has seen it. Perhaps that would allow for some actual enforcement. On a side suggestion, perhaps this feature could be separated from a GM call, so that if you think you are going to be MPKed, you can use it, and if nothing happens, a GM is not called and the logs are deleted an hour later. Also allow dead people to use these features.
Suggestion: Let the GMs maintain a presence in the different worlds. I have never even seen a GM in my year of playing, although I have been told that some people were calling GMs. If they were more visible, perhaps they would be taken a bit more seriously. Instead of them communicating primarily through /tells, let them appear and /say what they have to say. A warning to a player might not mean anything, but a stern warning to that player overhear by all the players in /say range might make the person think more carefully about it. That would also instill some faith in players who have never even seen a GM that rules are there and will be enforced.
Other than that, I would just like to say {Thank you} for listening. It is quite refreshing to get some confirmation that SE want input from it's player base.
#560
Nov 04 2005 at 11:58 PM
12 posts
To stop the MPKing I think the following needs to happen. Now, this stuff may have already said, but I am too lazy to read all the pages. BST pets should NOT be able to aggro others after being uncharmed, until they are in their normal spots. AoEs should only hurt the person, party, or allience that is engaged to the monster.
And when dealing with badass monsters like King Behemoth, Nidhogg, the whole crew, people shouldn't be able to move into a certain area of where the monster is until it is unclaimed. I remember hearing of a time the Flying Linkshell of Cerberus MPKed a group of people fighting Smurgh just by lagging them so badly. So if you can keep others from these HNMs while they are claimed, it'll help the ones fighting it have a smooth system, unless they just have a bad internet themself.
And when dealing with badass monsters like King Behemoth, Nidhogg, the whole crew, people shouldn't be able to move into a certain area of where the monster is until it is unclaimed. I remember hearing of a time the Flying Linkshell of Cerberus MPKed a group of people fighting Smurgh just by lagging them so badly. So if you can keep others from these HNMs while they are claimed, it'll help the ones fighting it have a smooth system, unless they just have a bad internet themself.
#561
Nov 04 2005 at 11:59 PM
Someone else may have suggested this before, but here goes:
Suggestion: Automated users profiling for RMT activity, and monitor them closely for rule infractions.
While RMT may be difficult to prove conclusively and directly in-game, stepped up enforcement against bot’ing, MPK'ing, and other rule breaking activities on characters/accounts used by RMT companies will reduce griefing and RMT activities--both reductions highly desirable.
Key Characteristic:
Every RMT company must have at least one account which share this characteristic:
Total value of Gils and items going out of account (from all characters on the account) is substantially greater than amount coming into the account.
Gils are easy to count, and the average Auction House and Bazaar transaction prices over time can be taken as the market value for items. Track every trade, Bazaar sale, and AH transaction.
The Search, Part I:
Randomly profile users (not everyone, since that'd likely overload the servers), and flag high volume transaction accounts with large inbalance of total value in-flow and out-flow. Then, select a few accounts from there for closer monitoring.
The Search, Part II:
And, once S-E has a list of flagged accounts, additional profiling then can be run to determine association; which other accounts does the flagged account communicate with on regular basis, who do they send and receive large amount of Gils from, for example. Then, those accounts can be flagged for additional monitoring as well.
The Search, Part III:
Once association has been establish, do a in-flow/out-flow on the each grouping; no matter how much RMT's shuffle Gils and items from one account to another, ring in enough number of accounts used by one company, the out-flow will greatly out-balance the in-flow.
So, from Part I to Part III, is a strategy for identifying RMT's from one 'hot' account to a number of related accounts. Accounts flagged in Part III, then, should come under close scrutiny. (And, punished, if rule-infraction--MPK or otherwise--can be proven.)
Best of all, the close monitoring can be done with good return on investment (amount of GM/admin time per flagged account) since the profiler should have identified only likely candidates.
Keep the Goal in Mind:
RMT companies are sneaky, clever, fast thinking, and highly motivated. They run bot farms and use a multitude of accounts, shifting their loot constantly to avoid detection. If S-E play to their strength of cat-and-mouse games, S-E will lose most of the time.
System wide monitoring based on their defining characteristics (rather than any specific activities) is the way to identify them quickly and efficiently, and flagging them for scrutiny is the first and most critical step in reducing the problem they cause to the player community.
Edit:
One badly phrased sentence. >_>;
Edited, Sat Nov 5 00:12:40 2005 by IfritnoItazura
Suggestion: Automated users profiling for RMT activity, and monitor them closely for rule infractions.
While RMT may be difficult to prove conclusively and directly in-game, stepped up enforcement against bot’ing, MPK'ing, and other rule breaking activities on characters/accounts used by RMT companies will reduce griefing and RMT activities--both reductions highly desirable.
Key Characteristic:
Every RMT company must have at least one account which share this characteristic:
Total value of Gils and items going out of account (from all characters on the account) is substantially greater than amount coming into the account.
Gils are easy to count, and the average Auction House and Bazaar transaction prices over time can be taken as the market value for items. Track every trade, Bazaar sale, and AH transaction.
The Search, Part I:
Randomly profile users (not everyone, since that'd likely overload the servers), and flag high volume transaction accounts with large inbalance of total value in-flow and out-flow. Then, select a few accounts from there for closer monitoring.
The Search, Part II:
And, once S-E has a list of flagged accounts, additional profiling then can be run to determine association; which other accounts does the flagged account communicate with on regular basis, who do they send and receive large amount of Gils from, for example. Then, those accounts can be flagged for additional monitoring as well.
The Search, Part III:
Once association has been establish, do a in-flow/out-flow on the each grouping; no matter how much RMT's shuffle Gils and items from one account to another, ring in enough number of accounts used by one company, the out-flow will greatly out-balance the in-flow.
So, from Part I to Part III, is a strategy for identifying RMT's from one 'hot' account to a number of related accounts. Accounts flagged in Part III, then, should come under close scrutiny. (And, punished, if rule-infraction--MPK or otherwise--can be proven.)
Best of all, the close monitoring can be done with good return on investment (amount of GM/admin time per flagged account) since the profiler should have identified only likely candidates.
Keep the Goal in Mind:
RMT companies are sneaky, clever, fast thinking, and highly motivated. They run bot farms and use a multitude of accounts, shifting their loot constantly to avoid detection. If S-E play to their strength of cat-and-mouse games, S-E will lose most of the time.
System wide monitoring based on their defining characteristics (rather than any specific activities) is the way to identify them quickly and efficiently, and flagging them for scrutiny is the first and most critical step in reducing the problem they cause to the player community.
Edit:
One badly phrased sentence. >_>;
Edited, Sat Nov 5 00:12:40 2005 by IfritnoItazura
#563
Nov 05 2005 at 12:08 AM
I don't know if this has been suggested, but how about a system where parties still have to compete for the claim but once the nm/hnm is claimed it becomes like an instanced battlefield with no time limit, but with the increased toughness over tiem still applying. The battlefield could be available to anyone in a linkshell, or just the alliance that has claim. The people observing the fight could still see the fight while the other group fights, but the group fighting can't see the other people or other mobs. This allows other people to see strategies being used.
#564
Nov 05 2005 at 12:12 AM
17 posts
** Important **
IF the trained mobs won't agro/link, then the zoning spot will be overcamped and the game will be so easy. No puller needed cuz anyone will zone the mobs and the parties around will pick up mobs one by one. This will mess up the game.
** MPK **
MPKing actually is using a game/mobs features to hurt others. If you fixed/modified the current features then they will use the new ones again and may bring horrible situation than MPKing.
** IF **
IF you really listening, then create a poll about what ppl want to see. not asking a public question. I bet more than 90% want you to react against MPKers than modify the play style.
personally, I don't think SE care about their customers, never did. But if you want to change, then I'll be the first one who'll be so so so so happy for that.
#565
Nov 05 2005 at 12:21 AM
Scholar
22 posts
ssuggestion: i would like just to see GMs at all the big HNMs where 99% of true MPKs come from. people wont MPK or even try to MPK on HNMs like Fafnir, Nidhogg, KB and others if theres a GM sitting there watching the fight. we all make bad pulls and have to zone that shouldnt make the zone a free area so you can ***** foot it around.
#566
Nov 05 2005 at 12:42 AM
Suggestion: Everything is fine as is.
#567
Nov 05 2005 at 1:04 AM
17 posts
Suggestion: If larger areas, such as Crawler's Nest, where there is a very large range of levels for mobs, are divided into "Level Areas" so when a mob is brought out of the area it will not link with the lower level mobs. Also they will lose hate on the person running away when they are too far from their own area. This will help stop the trains to the entrance made of one or two Soldier Crawlers blended in with tons of Worker Crawlers.
#568
Nov 05 2005 at 2:01 AM
Scholar
34 posts
Suggestion: I think the biggest Problem is for one is GM's. Give them the power to do something. You can create a special system, where when a NM/HNM pops, the server records all activity in that area (which i'm sure it records all activity anyways) Which GM's can access. Instantly to see what happened.
Suggestion: I've been MPKed in non NM/HNM situations. When a level 70 player. Trains in Giddues 40-50 Yagudo's for no reason, and zone's them. And shuts down the zone for 30 mintues while having to wait for the Yagudo's to walk back 3 times, and I call a GM and the GM does NOTHING! Is completely wrong. This is a clearly a Violation of the User Agreement.
Final Fantasy XI User Agreement.
Article 3
(c) The interference with or disruption of the Game or the PlayOnline Service or any servers or networks connected thereto, or the failure to obey any procedures, policies, regulations or other requirements of any networks connected to the PlayOnline Service
That is a disruption of the Game. IT clearly falls into this category. The agreement says "The interference with or disruption of the game or..." That clearly States a violation, if its disrupting the game By training thats disrupting, or like the DDOS attacks.
Suggestion: Either for the Monsters to only be allowed to be pulled away from their "Home Point" for a certain distance, but a resonable Distance so party's can still pull.
Suggestion: Change the bind/shadowbind method, where it attacks anyone standing next to it. It should only attack the party members that have the monster engaged.
Suggestion: Remove Outside AOE damage/non-damage debuffs to parties not engaged. Like the Orcs Battle Dance, or A failed Goblin Bomb toss. This should only Effect, the party fighting the monster, and not surrounding players/parties, or the person currently with agro, (ie. a powerleveler, a random person running by and helps and heals a person of the party to save them). Debuff's should also follow the same rule. Like Mandrago's Dream Flower shouldn't sleep other nearby parties. This would help so greatly in parties having to be spread out more, and it would make the game less bothersome having to worry, if the other party starts moving to close.
Suggestion: If not my suggestion earlier about having mosnters have a set distance. Then any mobs Trained to zone, or wherever, after the person they have agro on is gone. As soon as they lose agro on the person they was chasing. That Monster is de-spawned. This will prevent any method or problems with the monster running back to its "Home Point" and attackign any innocent players in its path. Or If it was to warp back, it would cause a problem with a party pulling, or somone running by getting surprised by a link. I think some method of De-spawning the trained monster would be best. Like Monster A loses agro on Player A and is de-spawned. And it to be set for a quicker respawn (so some jerk just can't train a bunch of mobs in an area and force them to despawn and take the full normal time to respawn). Like say 10-15 seconds after its de-spawned by a train it its re-spawned at its normal position.
Suggestion: For GM's when a NM/HNM is poped to be notified, and 1 GM be taken to that spot to watch the activity, when that NM/HNM becomes engaged they would be notified, so they are able to go and watch activity. From there they can decide if its needed to stay and watch for possible MPKers or to leave (ie, Stray Mary, The worm in East Ronfanue, would not be nesicary to be watched.) GM's would also have the ablity, to De-spawn/Re-spawn a NM/HNM, and or the Abillity, to remove who has it claimed, and set it so the GM has it claimed, till the issue is resolved. (Note the GM can be Invisible up till this point) Also for the GM to beable to quickly freeze those players involved so they cannot leave. In the case of De-spawn/Re-Spawn, The NM/HNM could be Re-spawned after it was decided who properly claimed first the NM/HNM already engaged on the Player(s)/Party(s) that were the rightfull owners to the orginal NM/HNM. Or for the GM to stay and just watch the situation and just re-spawn the monster normal for it to be claimed by the proper person. And deal with anyone who does not follow instructions by either warping them to jail, or just out of the area, or any punishment deemed nessicarry.
I think what it comes down to for a big part is. THE GM'S ARE NOT UPHOLDING THE RULES/REGULATIOSN ALREADY SET BY SE/POL. I do not belive howerver its their fault. They only do what they are told. This is a problem. When things are clearly a violation of rules and nothing is done. Of course people get mad. I know i've made 4-5 GM calls for things that are clearly a Violation like getting MPKed and nothing was ever done. This has to change or no matter What method's the Development team does. It will never stop the problems at the root 100%. If you steal something from a store, and you get reported to the police. And the police do nothing, are you going to think, "Well maybe I shouldn't do that again I might goto jail or something else" No, you just going to do it again. Unless clear action is taken against people doing things to effect other's gameplay then nothign will be resolved. Ever.
Suggestion: I've been MPKed in non NM/HNM situations. When a level 70 player. Trains in Giddues 40-50 Yagudo's for no reason, and zone's them. And shuts down the zone for 30 mintues while having to wait for the Yagudo's to walk back 3 times, and I call a GM and the GM does NOTHING! Is completely wrong. This is a clearly a Violation of the User Agreement.
Quote:
Final Fantasy XI User Agreement.
Article 3
(c) The interference with or disruption of the Game or the PlayOnline Service or any servers or networks connected thereto, or the failure to obey any procedures, policies, regulations or other requirements of any networks connected to the PlayOnline Service
That is a disruption of the Game. IT clearly falls into this category. The agreement says "The interference with or disruption of the game or..." That clearly States a violation, if its disrupting the game By training thats disrupting, or like the DDOS attacks.
Suggestion: Either for the Monsters to only be allowed to be pulled away from their "Home Point" for a certain distance, but a resonable Distance so party's can still pull.
Suggestion: Change the bind/shadowbind method, where it attacks anyone standing next to it. It should only attack the party members that have the monster engaged.
Suggestion: Remove Outside AOE damage/non-damage debuffs to parties not engaged. Like the Orcs Battle Dance, or A failed Goblin Bomb toss. This should only Effect, the party fighting the monster, and not surrounding players/parties, or the person currently with agro, (ie. a powerleveler, a random person running by and helps and heals a person of the party to save them). Debuff's should also follow the same rule. Like Mandrago's Dream Flower shouldn't sleep other nearby parties. This would help so greatly in parties having to be spread out more, and it would make the game less bothersome having to worry, if the other party starts moving to close.
Suggestion: If not my suggestion earlier about having mosnters have a set distance. Then any mobs Trained to zone, or wherever, after the person they have agro on is gone. As soon as they lose agro on the person they was chasing. That Monster is de-spawned. This will prevent any method or problems with the monster running back to its "Home Point" and attackign any innocent players in its path. Or If it was to warp back, it would cause a problem with a party pulling, or somone running by getting surprised by a link. I think some method of De-spawning the trained monster would be best. Like Monster A loses agro on Player A and is de-spawned. And it to be set for a quicker respawn (so some jerk just can't train a bunch of mobs in an area and force them to despawn and take the full normal time to respawn). Like say 10-15 seconds after its de-spawned by a train it its re-spawned at its normal position.
Suggestion: For GM's when a NM/HNM is poped to be notified, and 1 GM be taken to that spot to watch the activity, when that NM/HNM becomes engaged they would be notified, so they are able to go and watch activity. From there they can decide if its needed to stay and watch for possible MPKers or to leave (ie, Stray Mary, The worm in East Ronfanue, would not be nesicary to be watched.) GM's would also have the ablity, to De-spawn/Re-spawn a NM/HNM, and or the Abillity, to remove who has it claimed, and set it so the GM has it claimed, till the issue is resolved. (Note the GM can be Invisible up till this point) Also for the GM to beable to quickly freeze those players involved so they cannot leave. In the case of De-spawn/Re-Spawn, The NM/HNM could be Re-spawned after it was decided who properly claimed first the NM/HNM already engaged on the Player(s)/Party(s) that were the rightfull owners to the orginal NM/HNM. Or for the GM to stay and just watch the situation and just re-spawn the monster normal for it to be claimed by the proper person. And deal with anyone who does not follow instructions by either warping them to jail, or just out of the area, or any punishment deemed nessicarry.
I think what it comes down to for a big part is. THE GM'S ARE NOT UPHOLDING THE RULES/REGULATIOSN ALREADY SET BY SE/POL. I do not belive howerver its their fault. They only do what they are told. This is a problem. When things are clearly a violation of rules and nothing is done. Of course people get mad. I know i've made 4-5 GM calls for things that are clearly a Violation like getting MPKed and nothing was ever done. This has to change or no matter What method's the Development team does. It will never stop the problems at the root 100%. If you steal something from a store, and you get reported to the police. And the police do nothing, are you going to think, "Well maybe I shouldn't do that again I might goto jail or something else" No, you just going to do it again. Unless clear action is taken against people doing things to effect other's gameplay then nothign will be resolved. Ever.
#569
Nov 05 2005 at 2:09 AM
Suggestion #1: Expand the Alliance system so that Alliances of Alliances are possible (Batillions?) People need not be able to see the status of anyone outside their own Alliance, but they would be together for organization purposes. Then, create a "player filter" similar to the current chat filter, so you can turn off players outside of your Batillion/Alliance/Party. When you did this, their character data would not be loaded, thus MPKs caused by sitting on top of claimed HNMs until the tanks lagged out would not be possible. There should probably be an additional chat filter for "non-Batillion chat," in case communication was still necessary or desired. If these were combined with /blockaid it would be completely impossible for non-Batillion members to affect Batillion members in any way.
Suggestion #2: Make monsters outside their spawn area not agro people in a Batillion currently engaged with an NM. You could rationalize it by saying they'd be intimidated by the NM. This would retain the fun of some of the NMs where half the challange is dealing with local links, yet make it impossible to MPK with monsters that shouldn't be near the NM anyway (Serket comes to mind).
Suggestion #3: Do random spot checks of HNMs by GMs in invisible mode. You don't have to patrol every spawn, that's illogical and impractical. If you randomly patrol NMs and start deleting characters for attempted MPKs then people would be much less likely to attempt it. No matter how good a drop is, it can't be worth it to a gilseller to risk their character on an MPK attempt. Have the GM capture video of the happening, for a reason, see the next suggestion.
Suggestion #4: Make a "GM Appeal Court." If someone wants to appeal a serious GM punishment decision, send the appeal to a court where the chat log and video of the offense is reviewed. Then Judgement will be passed by a jury of GMs. This will both standardize punishments among GMs and permit GMs to be more strict in their punishments, because their correctness will be unquestionable if the person fails the appeal and assumed if the person does not attempt it.
Suggestion #5: I would like to echo the previous frustration with Bind and Shadowbind. I'm not sure if it's still true, but I'm fairly sure Worms (who have auto-bind) will also attack anyone near them when someone is Ranged Attacking/Fighting them with magic. I remember dying once that was as RDM where I rested in the Maze of Shakrami and a worm popped next to me. A ranger started killing it, but ended up with me dead.
Thank you very much for your willingness to accept suggestions, and I hope that this was helpful for you. I would limit illogical and unnecessary changes to the aggro/linking system. I do approve of making the monsters more intelligent though.
Suggestion #2: Make monsters outside their spawn area not agro people in a Batillion currently engaged with an NM. You could rationalize it by saying they'd be intimidated by the NM. This would retain the fun of some of the NMs where half the challange is dealing with local links, yet make it impossible to MPK with monsters that shouldn't be near the NM anyway (Serket comes to mind).
Suggestion #3: Do random spot checks of HNMs by GMs in invisible mode. You don't have to patrol every spawn, that's illogical and impractical. If you randomly patrol NMs and start deleting characters for attempted MPKs then people would be much less likely to attempt it. No matter how good a drop is, it can't be worth it to a gilseller to risk their character on an MPK attempt. Have the GM capture video of the happening, for a reason, see the next suggestion.
Suggestion #4: Make a "GM Appeal Court." If someone wants to appeal a serious GM punishment decision, send the appeal to a court where the chat log and video of the offense is reviewed. Then Judgement will be passed by a jury of GMs. This will both standardize punishments among GMs and permit GMs to be more strict in their punishments, because their correctness will be unquestionable if the person fails the appeal and assumed if the person does not attempt it.
Suggestion #5: I would like to echo the previous frustration with Bind and Shadowbind. I'm not sure if it's still true, but I'm fairly sure Worms (who have auto-bind) will also attack anyone near them when someone is Ranged Attacking/Fighting them with magic. I remember dying once that was as RDM where I rested in the Maze of Shakrami and a worm popped next to me. A ranger started killing it, but ended up with me dead.
Thank you very much for your willingness to accept suggestions, and I hope that this was helpful for you. I would limit illogical and unnecessary changes to the aggro/linking system. I do approve of making the monsters more intelligent though.
#570
Nov 05 2005 at 2:15 AM
16 posts
Suggestion: As previously posted, the situations where an MPK occurs should be compiled first; and resolutions to the problems should be sought thereafter. The idea is to correct problems, and not create more.
Suggestion: Keep a log of situations where people intentionally MPK other players. Create and implement a rule system that has escalating steps of punishment, and TAKE ACTION against the players who do not follow these guidelines. Make the rules clear and precise, and available to anyone and everyone.
Suggestion: Log excessive amounts of gil trading and sending. Try to figure out where the gil is being harvested from, who its being sold by, and take the appropriate action. Too many times have good players been MPK'ed by RMT players who are making a living off a virtual world which you have created, reaping benefits which are not for them to take.
Suggestion: Keep a log of situations where people intentionally MPK other players. Create and implement a rule system that has escalating steps of punishment, and TAKE ACTION against the players who do not follow these guidelines. Make the rules clear and precise, and available to anyone and everyone.
Suggestion: Log excessive amounts of gil trading and sending. Try to figure out where the gil is being harvested from, who its being sold by, and take the appropriate action. Too many times have good players been MPK'ed by RMT players who are making a living off a virtual world which you have created, reaping benefits which are not for them to take.
#571
Nov 05 2005 at 2:18 AM
I must admit, this focus on MPK could go VERY wrong if handled incorectly. I do not think the the solution will be found in changing anything about any Job Ability.
My personal opinion is that the solution would be best found in either the agro system or in monitoring softwares.
If a mob is draged beyond it's normal roaming area and the person/s who have hate with the mob all die/warp/tele/Leave/whatever then having it not agro others till it returns to it's normal area seems to be a pretty strong step in the right direction. This will stop many of the trains/MPK from hampering others.
As far as monitering softwares, I am not aware of exactly how much in game info a GM is able to access. I have seen many players cry MPK or even say that they would call a GM for MPK when none has ocurred. I have also seen others get away with MPK due lack of info to accuratly determain if MPK has occured.
BST take a lot of grief over MPK. I have been in many pt where someone has threatened to call MPK on a BST just because they were in the area and did not like sharing mobs with them. False MPK claims should carry the very same penalty as if they has commited a MPK themselves. If a BST were to use Leave then I think mobs should return to their normal spawning area before agroing anyone else. This could help resolve many of the issues involving BST and accurate/false claims of MPK.
There are a lot of players out there do not play fair (gil buying, MPK, griefing, etc.) These player often complain the loudest. All that I would ask is that SE consider everything very closely and try their best to not change how any job functions due to this. The problem does not lie in how the Jobs function but in how the players play the game.
My personal opinion is that the solution would be best found in either the agro system or in monitoring softwares.
If a mob is draged beyond it's normal roaming area and the person/s who have hate with the mob all die/warp/tele/Leave/whatever then having it not agro others till it returns to it's normal area seems to be a pretty strong step in the right direction. This will stop many of the trains/MPK from hampering others.
As far as monitering softwares, I am not aware of exactly how much in game info a GM is able to access. I have seen many players cry MPK or even say that they would call a GM for MPK when none has ocurred. I have also seen others get away with MPK due lack of info to accuratly determain if MPK has occured.
BST take a lot of grief over MPK. I have been in many pt where someone has threatened to call MPK on a BST just because they were in the area and did not like sharing mobs with them. False MPK claims should carry the very same penalty as if they has commited a MPK themselves. If a BST were to use Leave then I think mobs should return to their normal spawning area before agroing anyone else. This could help resolve many of the issues involving BST and accurate/false claims of MPK.
There are a lot of players out there do not play fair (gil buying, MPK, griefing, etc.) These player often complain the loudest. All that I would ask is that SE consider everything very closely and try their best to not change how any job functions due to this. The problem does not lie in how the Jobs function but in how the players play the game.
#572
Nov 05 2005 at 2:34 AM
The only thing I could honestly think of to get rid of the MPK system is for a GM to be able to "replay" the situtation by extracting the log of all action happening to all players in question in the area. This should allow the GM to take nessicary action against whomever, and further allowing them to suspend such players doing these things. There are times that MPKing are "accidental" and if that's the case, the person in question would have to be able to explain him/herself in like fashion. There's nothing you can do without actually taking away from the dynamics of the game.
This would be the only thing that actually doesn't take away from the game itself.
This would be the only thing that actually doesn't take away from the game itself.
#573
Nov 05 2005 at 2:44 AM
3 posts
I have several ideas, please feel free to respond.
1) When a monster or monster train is zoned they should do one of the following:
a) Go after anyone in the zone on their hate list.
b) Their name changes color to pink, this means that they have entered a state in which they return to where they were aggro'ed without attacking people on their way back. The color is to let people know that the monster(s) have been zoned and are returning to whence they came. While in this pink state, the monsters can be attacked and claimed by other players and monsters that normally link with the attacked target will link and attack the person who claimed it, this is regardless if they are pink or yellow. When they return to where they were first aggro'ed they will turn yellow and life will go on.
-Note: A few other things; This also happens when the player zones via warp or escape, is logged off somehow or dies.
I think this would pretty easily clean up the MPK factor, whether it is on purpose or not and that way we wont need to station GM's all over the world on every server... which in my opinion is a waste of man power. They have better things to do like help out and deal with gilsellers instead of policing the people who may or may not attempt to MPK.
If anyone posted these things already I am sorry but 6 pages is a lot of stuff to read and well... I did not.
2) MPKing is bad at HMNs, so following #1 would allow you to fight the HNM without worry of MPK and if you all die fighting it or otherwise lose claim (maybe zoning the monster) other people can still claim it without having to worry about aggro from other zoned monsters.
3) MPKing is a part of the game right now and if you don't like it maybe you should wait until there is some kind of resolve instead of complaining which gets you no where except on peoples blacklist. And for those of you who MPK, please stop it is rude and shows that you are childish and really have no respect for people who do things fair and square, no need to be a poor sport. After all it is just a game, please play nice and have fun!
Edit: Yes like 3 seconds after posting.
4) As for AOE, players should still be hurt by it, as for linking yes they should still link and the guy who posted below me is onto something, for those 24+hr spawns, maybe you should have an icon like signet that doesn't allow you to kill that monster for a few days maybe, give an error when you try to attack it.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 03:04:02 2005 by MablungGaruda
1) When a monster or monster train is zoned they should do one of the following:
a) Go after anyone in the zone on their hate list.
b) Their name changes color to pink, this means that they have entered a state in which they return to where they were aggro'ed without attacking people on their way back. The color is to let people know that the monster(s) have been zoned and are returning to whence they came. While in this pink state, the monsters can be attacked and claimed by other players and monsters that normally link with the attacked target will link and attack the person who claimed it, this is regardless if they are pink or yellow. When they return to where they were first aggro'ed they will turn yellow and life will go on.
-Note: A few other things; This also happens when the player zones via warp or escape, is logged off somehow or dies.
I think this would pretty easily clean up the MPK factor, whether it is on purpose or not and that way we wont need to station GM's all over the world on every server... which in my opinion is a waste of man power. They have better things to do like help out and deal with gilsellers instead of policing the people who may or may not attempt to MPK.
If anyone posted these things already I am sorry but 6 pages is a lot of stuff to read and well... I did not.
2) MPKing is bad at HMNs, so following #1 would allow you to fight the HNM without worry of MPK and if you all die fighting it or otherwise lose claim (maybe zoning the monster) other people can still claim it without having to worry about aggro from other zoned monsters.
3) MPKing is a part of the game right now and if you don't like it maybe you should wait until there is some kind of resolve instead of complaining which gets you no where except on peoples blacklist. And for those of you who MPK, please stop it is rude and shows that you are childish and really have no respect for people who do things fair and square, no need to be a poor sport. After all it is just a game, please play nice and have fun!
Edit: Yes like 3 seconds after posting.
4) As for AOE, players should still be hurt by it, as for linking yes they should still link and the guy who posted below me is onto something, for those 24+hr spawns, maybe you should have an icon like signet that doesn't allow you to kill that monster for a few days maybe, give an error when you try to attack it.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 03:04:02 2005 by MablungGaruda
#574
Nov 05 2005 at 2:44 AM
2 posts
I have a suggestion that would help some MPK and also resolve allot of complications with NM's. Here is a list of things to look at.
1. There is a bot issue with most of the popular NM's out there. People find a way of getting the upper hand so they are able to obtain items they want. MPK’n in the process out of greed/frustration
2. People camp over and over same NM making it almost impossible to get for some items you want. People are not able to gain full experience/limits of the game. There fore they MPK out of greed/frustration.
I have come up with a way to minimize the situation at hand. I think players who were fighting the battle when the NM fell should experience a type of downtime from that particular NM. (Say 24hrs) depending on spawn length. This would living some things up and allow multiple players/shells to get the claim. This would also prevent Gil sellers from farming NM's for long periods of times, and allow others in on the hunt.
Example:
(A) Shell camps Fafnir, and get claim and kill. Anyone in that party would not be able to claim him or fight him for 24 hrs. (monster also will not agro or due damage to those players in effect of the downtime)
(B) Shell would not get claim but have a chance at him the next spawn time.
(C) Shell would not get claim but have a chance at him the next spawn time.
Now, yes if the shell was large enough they could farm 2 parties and still get claim consecutive days, but like I said this would prevent some greed/frustration which in turn would help prevent MPK.
Questions/Comments much appreciated:
By Tibal 75Rng – 75thf on Hades
1. There is a bot issue with most of the popular NM's out there. People find a way of getting the upper hand so they are able to obtain items they want. MPK’n in the process out of greed/frustration
2. People camp over and over same NM making it almost impossible to get for some items you want. People are not able to gain full experience/limits of the game. There fore they MPK out of greed/frustration.
I have come up with a way to minimize the situation at hand. I think players who were fighting the battle when the NM fell should experience a type of downtime from that particular NM. (Say 24hrs) depending on spawn length. This would living some things up and allow multiple players/shells to get the claim. This would also prevent Gil sellers from farming NM's for long periods of times, and allow others in on the hunt.
Example:
(A) Shell camps Fafnir, and get claim and kill. Anyone in that party would not be able to claim him or fight him for 24 hrs. (monster also will not agro or due damage to those players in effect of the downtime)
(B) Shell would not get claim but have a chance at him the next spawn time.
(C) Shell would not get claim but have a chance at him the next spawn time.
Now, yes if the shell was large enough they could farm 2 parties and still get claim consecutive days, but like I said this would prevent some greed/frustration which in turn would help prevent MPK.
Questions/Comments much appreciated:
By Tibal 75Rng – 75thf on Hades
#575
Nov 05 2005 at 2:44 AM
1 post
The ideas everyone has presented are all very good; however, one thing that I would disagree with is increasing the movement speed of a monster to its original position. Some mobs such as mandragoras return to their original spawn points quickly while others, ghosts for example, move very slowly.
I believe this is an element of Final Fantasy that adds to the uniqueness of the gameplay which I and many others may utilize as a Beastmaster. When fighting certain monsters for experience points, beastmasters can drag a monster with slow return speed to a desired camp and cycle through that pet indefinately without having to chase it down and risking potential death during pet swapping.
That's my input ;)
I believe this is an element of Final Fantasy that adds to the uniqueness of the gameplay which I and many others may utilize as a Beastmaster. When fighting certain monsters for experience points, beastmasters can drag a monster with slow return speed to a desired camp and cycle through that pet indefinately without having to chase it down and risking potential death during pet swapping.
That's my input ;)
#576
Nov 05 2005 at 3:06 AM
42 posts
I play White Mage, I personally dont care about MPKer's they have never effected me at all to much except for horrible failed attempts where I continue to laugh at them.
Suggestion: Release all the beastmen spells to white mages. Banishaga 3 and diaga 2 would be lovely. we dont do alot of damage with these spells anyways, but anything helps. Helps
WHM's be undead killers like we should be and instead of manaburn parties (5 blm 1 bard) we will have (5 whm and 1 brd) oh that would be nice.
Suggestion 2: INCOME TAX if you make 40 000 000 gil selling kracken club via trade, or AH if you have a +40 000 000 profit at the end of the day your subjected to 85% tax if you make 100 000 gil a day you get 10% tax if you make 1 000 000 in a day you get 50% tax. This would drive down the prices to normal human levels.
Suggestion 3: please make it so there is refresh body armor for whm besides nobles, like what drk and blm have, there is no way in gods green earth that anyone in their right mind could possess nobles and esp. the +1 with having a shred of a social life.
Suggestion: Release all the beastmen spells to white mages. Banishaga 3 and diaga 2 would be lovely. we dont do alot of damage with these spells anyways, but anything helps. Helps
WHM's be undead killers like we should be and instead of manaburn parties (5 blm 1 bard) we will have (5 whm and 1 brd) oh that would be nice.
Suggestion 2: INCOME TAX if you make 40 000 000 gil selling kracken club via trade, or AH if you have a +40 000 000 profit at the end of the day your subjected to 85% tax if you make 100 000 gil a day you get 10% tax if you make 1 000 000 in a day you get 50% tax. This would drive down the prices to normal human levels.
Suggestion 3: please make it so there is refresh body armor for whm besides nobles, like what drk and blm have, there is no way in gods green earth that anyone in their right mind could possess nobles and esp. the +1 with having a shred of a social life.
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