I think this whole MPK issue could be taken care of quite easily if GM's actually did something about it. How many times do I gotta hear about how ol' Talorhoho of Garuda MPK'ed yet another party/alliance and he's still around?
I don't work for SE and I'm not sure exactly how they like to enforce thier policy, but after the 500th GM call about people like Talorhoho MPK'ing people...I think it's time to take a little action against the individual(s)...don't you agree?
Maybe you should hire a squad of GMs that only investigate MPK issues? They could moniter people who have been accused consistently of MPK. I'm sure it's hard for a GM to moniter suspected MPKers when they got a whole bunch of other issues to respond to and resolve.
As for changing play mechanics, I think it's not a good idea. For the most part, the gameplay is wonderful in FFXI and making drastic changes to the system to specifically halt MPK could, and possibly will, hurt people more than you could imagine.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 10:34:28 2005 by Reizel
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- Suggestions for changing the MPK system
Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#603
Nov 05 2005 at 10:30 AM
35 posts
I just wish they would change that fact that a monster turns yellow when i switch pets...everytime i do this...the gilsellers steal my claimed NM during pet switches..then they laugh at me. Sometimes i hate being a BST for this reason.
#604
Nov 05 2005 at 10:40 AM
A lot of these ideas may have been said already, but I'll say what I think as well. I've been playing EQ2 for quite a while now and think they have a great way of all this working.
So my suggestions are this:
Give monsters certain chase distances depending on the type and such.
After the distance has been reached / the players with agro zone the monster should become non agro until it returns to it's spawn location. And non link as well! (EQ2 also makes them unattackable while runing back) (I do like the idea about them kinda zoneing back to it)
If bound monsters will attack people around them, don't add those people to the hate list so if they step away from the mob it will stop attacking them right away and when it becomes unbound it will run after whoever bound it. This way people can just walk away a little and it will ignore them again.
Also they have it so that when a monster reaches it's spawn point after having run back it immediately goes back to 100% hp before it becomes attackable / agro.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 11:03:07 2005 by WanderingBard
So my suggestions are this:
Give monsters certain chase distances depending on the type and such.
After the distance has been reached / the players with agro zone the monster should become non agro until it returns to it's spawn location. And non link as well! (EQ2 also makes them unattackable while runing back) (I do like the idea about them kinda zoneing back to it)
If bound monsters will attack people around them, don't add those people to the hate list so if they step away from the mob it will stop attacking them right away and when it becomes unbound it will run after whoever bound it. This way people can just walk away a little and it will ignore them again.
Also they have it so that when a monster reaches it's spawn point after having run back it immediately goes back to 100% hp before it becomes attackable / agro.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 11:03:07 2005 by WanderingBard
#605
Nov 05 2005 at 10:41 AM
I do believe that people should at least read some of the thread before replying, since most of the suggestions are all basically the same.
For instance:
Mentioned at least more than 5 times in posts immediately preceding. Reading the thread, I can't see anything that I need to say that has been said, which may be a thing we'd want to all give a shot.
Keeping the suggestions and ideas concise and not flooding the thread with repeated posts that say the same thing will drown out the few posts that may have something different and potentially important to say.
For instance:
Thepalace wrote:
At the top of my list is probably the least succesful for MPK, but one of the most absurd that it's possible..
Suggestion: Bound monsters attacking any and every player near them. This is just stupid, and pointless. There is no practical purpose for this game mechanic, and yet it is there. Get rid of it.
Suggestion: Bound monsters attacking any and every player near them. This is just stupid, and pointless. There is no practical purpose for this game mechanic, and yet it is there. Get rid of it.
Mentioned at least more than 5 times in posts immediately preceding. Reading the thread, I can't see anything that I need to say that has been said, which may be a thing we'd want to all give a shot.
Keeping the suggestions and ideas concise and not flooding the thread with repeated posts that say the same thing will drown out the few posts that may have something different and potentially important to say.
#606
Nov 05 2005 at 10:43 AM
8 posts
SE won't get rid of gil sellers. They pay money to play everymonth, so they won't permaban them...
#607
Nov 05 2005 at 11:02 AM
Can we keep the suggestions limited to ones involving MPK please?
Not all MPKers are gilsellers, SE doesn't have the manpower to station GMs at NM spawns (multiply camped NMs per server by number of servers then muliply that number by 3 [takes three people to man an NM in 8 hours shifts], and you'll get an astronomical number), and remember, the only way to stop the sale of gil is to get rid of the people purchasing it. You ban the gilsellers, they'll just come back. And while may of them seem to be Chinese, thinking they all live is China is just ignorant.
There are some really great ideas in here that are getting lost due to suggestions that have nothing to do with MPK. Many of the non-MPK ideas are good, but this poor guy from SE who has to read all this is gonna get overwhelmed.
Not all MPKers are gilsellers, SE doesn't have the manpower to station GMs at NM spawns (multiply camped NMs per server by number of servers then muliply that number by 3 [takes three people to man an NM in 8 hours shifts], and you'll get an astronomical number), and remember, the only way to stop the sale of gil is to get rid of the people purchasing it. You ban the gilsellers, they'll just come back. And while may of them seem to be Chinese, thinking they all live is China is just ignorant.
There are some really great ideas in here that are getting lost due to suggestions that have nothing to do with MPK. Many of the non-MPK ideas are good, but this poor guy from SE who has to read all this is gonna get overwhelmed.
#608
Nov 05 2005 at 11:07 AM
22 posts
Gil Sellers kill the fun of the game. makes all of us that do it the hard way waste so much time Farming, harvesting, minning, logging. i would really like to see something do about this. might want to add something to the playonline program that acts like a virus scan. to prevent use of other programs while running. also have a log system that can be interviewed by SE staff. see what players are doing, have tag system to bring players to the attention of staff. also Should Perban gilsellers from the game. they totaly ***** up the market which is just as big a part of the game as exp, crafting, questing, mission, or anything else. hunt down these people that hurt the game for the rest of us. as for the other sugest in the thread good job all
Gamer The Enforcer of LS TheNoBodys
World garuda
Gamer The Enforcer of LS TheNoBodys
World garuda
#609
Nov 05 2005 at 11:13 AM
Because this post is now 12 pages (soon to be 13) I figured I'd summarize the general ideas so far so that people don't have to read all of it. These ideas are not my own, nor do I agree with all of them. This is just a summary postaru.
Issues directly pertaining to the MPK system:
1) Bind/Shadowbind/Worms attacking people for whom they have no hate just because they can't attack the person for whom they have hate.
Suggested Solutions:
A) Make it only attack party/alliance members of the person who has hate.
B) Make it only physically attack people it has hate with
C) Don't fix it
2) Notorious Monsters going temporarily unclaimed, only to be claimed and either /help-ed or just held until the alliance that was previously fighting it is destroyed.
Suggested Solutions:
A) Make monsters not go unclaimed until everyone in an alliance who it has hate for is dead.
B) Make monsters unclaimable unless they're at full health or agro
C) Make monsters lose hate for everyone except for the claimer inthis situation.
3) Linking System being abused for MPKs
Suggested Changes:
A) Make monsters not link until they're back to their spawn point
B) Make monsters not link until they're back to their spawn area
C) Make monsters not link until they're back within a certain distance of their starting point.
D) Make monsters not link
E) Make monsters not link on people they can't detect
F) Limit the number and distance monsters can be trained
G) Limit the distance monsters are willing to move as links without someone doing something to gain hate to them.
H) Have monsters follow players and despawn after the player zones, only to respawn back where they started
I) Make linking dependant on level, so monsters pulled by high level players couldn't link onto lower level parties.
J) Limit number of links based upon relative levels.
K) Make monster movement speed proportional to number of monsters linked on the same person
L) Make monster level related to number of monsters attacking the same person, so a person with a train of 10 monsters that are regularly level 33 would be hit as if the monsters were 43
4) Aggro System being abused for MPKs
Suggested Changes:
A) Make monsters not aggro onto people who are engaged with an NM
B) Make monstrs not aggro onto people fighting other monsters that have "killer" traits against them.
C) Adjust the "Flee" Job ability so that people can't intentionally string together aggro monsters they have no intention of fighting.
D) Make monsters not aggro until they're back to their spawn point
E) Make monsters not aggro until they're back to their spawn area
F) Make monsters not aggro until they're back within a certain distance of their starting point.
G) Make it so forced pop NMs do not aggro people outside the alliance that spawned them
H) Have monsters not aggro new parties for a short time after it kills someone/a party.
I) Add a high-level WHM spell that eliminates or reduces aggro within a given area.
J) Add an item with a similar effect, but only for one target.
K) Make monster aggro proportional to size of party and levels. So an entire aliance of 75s would not be attacked by a lone level 67 monster.
L) Make the distance a monster is willing to follow someone on aggro proportional to their relative level.
M) Make sure monster hate does drop to 0 after a long enough time.
N) Make people who were aggroed and linked on not get party hate for it.
O) Make AoEs just gain hate for the party member who did it, not the rest of the party.
P) Suggestion D-G with a name color change for the monster.
5) BST Release Issue/Ideas
Suggestions:
A) Have a time delay before released pets aggro again
B) Make a monsters' ability to aggro related to the distance from their spawn point
C) Make monsters only aggro the BST who released them until they return to their spawn point.
D) Add a 2 minute cooldown on Tame
E) Make released monsters not agro until they've returned to their spawn point.
F) Eliminate the xp penalty, so that Releasing monsters isn't necessary and accidental MPKs are far less frequent.
G) Make BST Pets unclaimable until they're back to aggroing
H) Put a "Flag" similar to a linkshell pearl over a current BST pet name
6) Zoning MPKs
Suggestions:
A) Have monsters return to their spawn point more quickly when zoned.
B) Apply a previously mentioned aggro or linking.
C) Put an "Aggro time delay" into effect so that groups would have a chance to avoid monsters that are zoned.
D) Add different zone points between areas, some with no strategic advantage for XP parties. This would make those zone points used for trains
7) AoE Accidental Deaths
Suggestions:
A) Make monster's AoEs only effect people whom they have hate for.
B) Make monster's AoEs only effect people in a party that has hate
C) Don't change it
D) Standardize it
8) Lag MPKs
Suggestions:
A) Add a player filter similar to a chat filter, and possibly a larger way of organizing groups
B) Make claims on monsters in crowded zones similar to Ballista
9) Karma System
Suggestions:
A) Add an NPC that people can report MPK perps. to, the more someone is reported, the worse his karma gets.
10) Players being Charmed and killed maliciously
Suggestions:
A) Make charmed players only attackable by those currently fighting the monster who charmed them
11) GM Prevention
Suggestions:
A) Station a GM at every NM where people frequently report MPKs at spawn time
B) Have GMs make occassional checks on frequently reported MPK NMs, and inflict stricter punishment for MPKs
C) Give GMs the ability to negate drops from monsters if they witness an MPK attempt
D) Create a GM appeals court to standardize serious punishments and make the guilt of perma-banned parties assumed.
E) Hire a few more GMs to take some stress off the current ones.
F) Give GMs the ability to instantly kill monsters that are brought in MPK attempts.
G) Add the ability to check your GM call's status
H) Have Action Logs so GMs can check all the actions in zone and see exactly what happened before a reported MPK.
I) Give GMs more tools to determine whether there was an MPK.
J) Have GMs be visible some of the time
K) Make it easier to call GMs
12) General MPK points
Suggestions:
A) Make more items Rare/EX
B) Make rare items obtainable in different equally difficult but non-MPKable ways
C) Add more forced spawns and ENM/BCNMs with great drops
D) Split /blockaid into /blockaid and /blockinvites, so invites can still be recieved while blocking aid.
E) Add a feature that would let a player turn off the /help command so accidents couldn't happen.
F) Make certain high-demand NMs spawn more often
G) Add a /unclaim command that would let alliance members unclaim monsters voluntarily
H) When a group gets claim on a big NM they're warped to another battlefield to kill it.
Other Issues and Suggestions:
1) Detection System
Suggestions:
A) Make scent aggro instead of just tracing
B) Adjust scent tracing so that it's always possible to lose agro
C) Make monsters that detect with both sight and sound turn for shorter-range visual confirmation before they aggro
D) Make scent related to linking
E) Make the spell Blind reduce the ability of sight tracers to track players, but still increase hate
F) Make players immune to detection for a short while after loading the zone so that they don't accidentally zone into a huge goblin train.
2) Farming
Suggestions:
A) Add some deterent for high levels farming in crowded levelling zones.
3) Further Organization
A) Add a system that allows for alliances of alliances, If this was the case people could make Linkshell organization for large battles job specific
Ok, I summarized specific suggestions up to the fourth page and all the common suggestions. There were a lot, but this is the general idea.
Issues directly pertaining to the MPK system:
1) Bind/Shadowbind/Worms attacking people for whom they have no hate just because they can't attack the person for whom they have hate.
Suggested Solutions:
A) Make it only attack party/alliance members of the person who has hate.
B) Make it only physically attack people it has hate with
C) Don't fix it
2) Notorious Monsters going temporarily unclaimed, only to be claimed and either /help-ed or just held until the alliance that was previously fighting it is destroyed.
Suggested Solutions:
A) Make monsters not go unclaimed until everyone in an alliance who it has hate for is dead.
B) Make monsters unclaimable unless they're at full health or agro
C) Make monsters lose hate for everyone except for the claimer inthis situation.
3) Linking System being abused for MPKs
Suggested Changes:
A) Make monsters not link until they're back to their spawn point
B) Make monsters not link until they're back to their spawn area
C) Make monsters not link until they're back within a certain distance of their starting point.
D) Make monsters not link
E) Make monsters not link on people they can't detect
F) Limit the number and distance monsters can be trained
G) Limit the distance monsters are willing to move as links without someone doing something to gain hate to them.
H) Have monsters follow players and despawn after the player zones, only to respawn back where they started
I) Make linking dependant on level, so monsters pulled by high level players couldn't link onto lower level parties.
J) Limit number of links based upon relative levels.
K) Make monster movement speed proportional to number of monsters linked on the same person
L) Make monster level related to number of monsters attacking the same person, so a person with a train of 10 monsters that are regularly level 33 would be hit as if the monsters were 43
4) Aggro System being abused for MPKs
Suggested Changes:
A) Make monsters not aggro onto people who are engaged with an NM
B) Make monstrs not aggro onto people fighting other monsters that have "killer" traits against them.
C) Adjust the "Flee" Job ability so that people can't intentionally string together aggro monsters they have no intention of fighting.
D) Make monsters not aggro until they're back to their spawn point
E) Make monsters not aggro until they're back to their spawn area
F) Make monsters not aggro until they're back within a certain distance of their starting point.
G) Make it so forced pop NMs do not aggro people outside the alliance that spawned them
H) Have monsters not aggro new parties for a short time after it kills someone/a party.
I) Add a high-level WHM spell that eliminates or reduces aggro within a given area.
J) Add an item with a similar effect, but only for one target.
K) Make monster aggro proportional to size of party and levels. So an entire aliance of 75s would not be attacked by a lone level 67 monster.
L) Make the distance a monster is willing to follow someone on aggro proportional to their relative level.
M) Make sure monster hate does drop to 0 after a long enough time.
N) Make people who were aggroed and linked on not get party hate for it.
O) Make AoEs just gain hate for the party member who did it, not the rest of the party.
P) Suggestion D-G with a name color change for the monster.
5) BST Release Issue/Ideas
Suggestions:
A) Have a time delay before released pets aggro again
B) Make a monsters' ability to aggro related to the distance from their spawn point
C) Make monsters only aggro the BST who released them until they return to their spawn point.
D) Add a 2 minute cooldown on Tame
E) Make released monsters not agro until they've returned to their spawn point.
F) Eliminate the xp penalty, so that Releasing monsters isn't necessary and accidental MPKs are far less frequent.
G) Make BST Pets unclaimable until they're back to aggroing
H) Put a "Flag" similar to a linkshell pearl over a current BST pet name
6) Zoning MPKs
Suggestions:
A) Have monsters return to their spawn point more quickly when zoned.
B) Apply a previously mentioned aggro or linking.
C) Put an "Aggro time delay" into effect so that groups would have a chance to avoid monsters that are zoned.
D) Add different zone points between areas, some with no strategic advantage for XP parties. This would make those zone points used for trains
7) AoE Accidental Deaths
Suggestions:
A) Make monster's AoEs only effect people whom they have hate for.
B) Make monster's AoEs only effect people in a party that has hate
C) Don't change it
D) Standardize it
8) Lag MPKs
Suggestions:
A) Add a player filter similar to a chat filter, and possibly a larger way of organizing groups
B) Make claims on monsters in crowded zones similar to Ballista
9) Karma System
Suggestions:
A) Add an NPC that people can report MPK perps. to, the more someone is reported, the worse his karma gets.
10) Players being Charmed and killed maliciously
Suggestions:
A) Make charmed players only attackable by those currently fighting the monster who charmed them
11) GM Prevention
Suggestions:
A) Station a GM at every NM where people frequently report MPKs at spawn time
B) Have GMs make occassional checks on frequently reported MPK NMs, and inflict stricter punishment for MPKs
C) Give GMs the ability to negate drops from monsters if they witness an MPK attempt
D) Create a GM appeals court to standardize serious punishments and make the guilt of perma-banned parties assumed.
E) Hire a few more GMs to take some stress off the current ones.
F) Give GMs the ability to instantly kill monsters that are brought in MPK attempts.
G) Add the ability to check your GM call's status
H) Have Action Logs so GMs can check all the actions in zone and see exactly what happened before a reported MPK.
I) Give GMs more tools to determine whether there was an MPK.
J) Have GMs be visible some of the time
K) Make it easier to call GMs
12) General MPK points
Suggestions:
A) Make more items Rare/EX
B) Make rare items obtainable in different equally difficult but non-MPKable ways
C) Add more forced spawns and ENM/BCNMs with great drops
D) Split /blockaid into /blockaid and /blockinvites, so invites can still be recieved while blocking aid.
E) Add a feature that would let a player turn off the /help command so accidents couldn't happen.
F) Make certain high-demand NMs spawn more often
G) Add a /unclaim command that would let alliance members unclaim monsters voluntarily
H) When a group gets claim on a big NM they're warped to another battlefield to kill it.
Other Issues and Suggestions:
1) Detection System
Suggestions:
A) Make scent aggro instead of just tracing
B) Adjust scent tracing so that it's always possible to lose agro
C) Make monsters that detect with both sight and sound turn for shorter-range visual confirmation before they aggro
D) Make scent related to linking
E) Make the spell Blind reduce the ability of sight tracers to track players, but still increase hate
F) Make players immune to detection for a short while after loading the zone so that they don't accidentally zone into a huge goblin train.
2) Farming
Suggestions:
A) Add some deterent for high levels farming in crowded levelling zones.
3) Further Organization
A) Add a system that allows for alliances of alliances, If this was the case people could make Linkshell organization for large battles job specific
Ok, I summarized specific suggestions up to the fourth page and all the common suggestions. There were a lot, but this is the general idea.
#610
Nov 05 2005 at 11:14 AM
Well, I won't directly say "gilseller" here, but I think they are somehow related to the real problem behind MPKs: lack of consequences.
To illustrate my point, I'll use my "driving down the road" analogy. The posted speed limit is 45 miles an hour. Nobody ever drives 45 miles an hour, because police won't even start looking at pulling people over until they go over 50 miles an hour. So on this street, 5 miles per hour over the limit is how far you can go before you get the reaction of law enforcement. Now say that the nobody sees or hears of the police pulling over anybody. Now people try 10 over the speed limit, then 15, and so on. Eventually that street sign that says 45 miles an hour is a joke because people go whatever speed they want to.
I hope the point was made well enough. A large part of the problem isn't the mechanics of the MPK, it's the fact that FFXI feels to more than a few people to be completely lawless.
Analogy guide:
Car: Player's account
Street: FFXI
Speed limit: ToS
Police: GMs/SE
To illustrate my point, I'll use my "driving down the road" analogy. The posted speed limit is 45 miles an hour. Nobody ever drives 45 miles an hour, because police won't even start looking at pulling people over until they go over 50 miles an hour. So on this street, 5 miles per hour over the limit is how far you can go before you get the reaction of law enforcement. Now say that the nobody sees or hears of the police pulling over anybody. Now people try 10 over the speed limit, then 15, and so on. Eventually that street sign that says 45 miles an hour is a joke because people go whatever speed they want to.
I hope the point was made well enough. A large part of the problem isn't the mechanics of the MPK, it's the fact that FFXI feels to more than a few people to be completely lawless.
Analogy guide:
Car: Player's account
Street: FFXI
Speed limit: ToS
Police: GMs/SE
#611
Nov 05 2005 at 11:20 AM
Suggestion: Make ALL EQUIPMENT drops from Notorious Monsters Rare/ex. the exception to that rule would be ENM, Beastman Seal and Kindred Seal Burning Circle fights.
I'd say make everything from NM's rare/ex but that would majorly stink for any kind of crafter.
Edit:
Suggestion: Make all equipment drops from any mob NM or not rare/ex...not only would that stop a lot of MPK and gilsellers it would let crafters earn some gil for a change since dropped armor or weapons can't be sold on AH.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 11:38:36 2005 by Obakemono
I'd say make everything from NM's rare/ex but that would majorly stink for any kind of crafter.
Edit:
Suggestion: Make all equipment drops from any mob NM or not rare/ex...not only would that stop a lot of MPK and gilsellers it would let crafters earn some gil for a change since dropped armor or weapons can't be sold on AH.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 11:38:36 2005 by Obakemono
#612
Nov 05 2005 at 11:33 AM
4 posts
Suggestion: Since SE already has a live feed camera in game, why don't gms just have multiple open watching nm spawns. It would be logical to have all the current ones up considering they have a "Better then good" chance of catching it. If a problem arises on the camera then bam they can log in and get there otherwise they just sit back and monitor it.
Response to suggestion: Make mobs go back to point of orgin that fixes the group problems that arise from train, intentional MPKs, and accidental MPKs.
Response to suggestion: Make mobs go back to point of orgin that fixes the group problems that arise from train, intentional MPKs, and accidental MPKs.
#613
Nov 05 2005 at 11:39 AM
Scholar
23 posts
Suggestion: If HNM, such as Serket, is claimed by a party or alliance and is wiped. the HNM is automatically despawned just like the NM gobs at the crags. that way if someone does MPK a group no one gets the mob. Also the party/alliance takes no exp lost.
Suggestion: (here's a fun one) all HNM has the ability to use charmga/breakga. try to MPK while petrifed or have to flee from a charmed player.
Suggestion: (here's a fun one) all HNM has the ability to use charmga/breakga. try to MPK while petrifed or have to flee from a charmed player.
#614
Nov 05 2005 at 11:55 AM
Seems theres only a few ideas that make any viable sense in this thread. Starting with the first OP ones.
-Trains don't agro until they're home
-AoE should only affect people on the hate list. (with the exception of NM's
-BST pets shouldn't agro others until home
and i must say these ones were also great ideas
-"Too Weak" mobs will NOT LINK. I'd like to see someone with the balls to tain-MPK now. Also it will stop high lvls from train-farming in popular exp areas.
-Monsters will stop chasing someone with Flee, if they get far enough away from the monster. (make this short, so people can't flee-train Easy Prey+ if the previous idea is implemented.)
I think this party-agro-protection thing is a good idea. Providing it's deactivated if the party starts killing something. Like sneak/invis.
But forget WHM, this should be a skill for BST. It would make more sense, and BST desperatly needs some active abilities past 35. the job gets so unmotivating after that point, its why i quit the game the first time. Plus it would help BST get a little more PT love.
-----------
Most other suggestions ive heard in the first pages seems rediculous overcomplicated ideas that are solved by the original idea of "Let the mobs go home before linking again". Poeple saying its not a good idea because now you can just train stuff out of your way and warp, mnaking the area safe for a while, can still be done currently, if you train to an isolated spot... so i dont think this argument against it is valid.
All the ideas in the OP are major good fixes. Fixing the claim-loss and bind bug will also go a long way. And like most have said, those damn GM's need to start taking action. Maybe pay them on customer satisfaction rather than # of processed calls...
Im so sick of GMs. I have reported countless bots and cheaters with every ability to actively prove it to the GM, and the GM wont even hear of it, just "We have ways of determining this". Oh yeah, message them and if they reply, they're not bots? thats BS, everyone knows they have auto reply and alarms that call them to the PC when they get a tell. People have lost all faith in GMs. And i know its beside the topic, but GM responses need to be changed bigtime. They need to start banning dammit, SE needs to realize how they're losing way more business from 20 people quitting from frustration, than kicking a single account causing them constant grief.
If i was the type of person to need to MPK, i would do it all day long without fear of GM punishment. Its just rediculous how useless they are. Basically all they can do is pat you on the head and say "there there" or warp you when youre stuck in a bug on a map. I want to be able to rate my GM, and have them fired if too many ppl rate them as not having taken sufficient action. Its so sickening to report a cheater and see them continue to play happily weeks after, when they should be banned outright.
-----------------------
I have to say that a lot of ideas in this thread are so obviously self-serving ideas that have nothing to do with MPK. Example, people asking for monsters to not link to a pull. Come on, that'll not eliminate MPK, it'll elimintae needing brains to pull.
Getting rid of the exp penalty that BST gets with a pet? What the heck? Thats so stupid, then why would a BST even want to get to lvl 35, if we wouldnt need to {Leave} for full exp. Please, stop trying to use this oppertunity for input as a chance to change the game to make your life way too easy. I dearly hope SE has the sense to realize whichof the suggestions are obvious attempts at pacifying the game.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 12:25:59 2005 by RattyBatty
Edited, Sat Nov 5 12:35:41 2005 by RattyBatty
-Trains don't agro until they're home
-AoE should only affect people on the hate list. (with the exception of NM's
-BST pets shouldn't agro others until home
and i must say these ones were also great ideas
-"Too Weak" mobs will NOT LINK. I'd like to see someone with the balls to tain-MPK now. Also it will stop high lvls from train-farming in popular exp areas.
-Monsters will stop chasing someone with Flee, if they get far enough away from the monster. (make this short, so people can't flee-train Easy Prey+ if the previous idea is implemented.)
Quote:
8b. Suggestion:Introduce an item/spell that gives some sort of "Sanctuary" effect when being worn/cast. Mobs will not aggro to those in area of effect (or person with effect). Yellow aggroed mobs should lose hate quickly within area.
-> In undead areas, a similar spell for perhaps whm will be good. (eg. Turn Undead from D&D)
-> Lasts 1 min or so
-> In undead areas, a similar spell for perhaps whm will be good. (eg. Turn Undead from D&D)
-> Lasts 1 min or so
I think this party-agro-protection thing is a good idea. Providing it's deactivated if the party starts killing something. Like sneak/invis.
But forget WHM, this should be a skill for BST. It would make more sense, and BST desperatly needs some active abilities past 35. the job gets so unmotivating after that point, its why i quit the game the first time. Plus it would help BST get a little more PT love.
-----------
Most other suggestions ive heard in the first pages seems rediculous overcomplicated ideas that are solved by the original idea of "Let the mobs go home before linking again". Poeple saying its not a good idea because now you can just train stuff out of your way and warp, mnaking the area safe for a while, can still be done currently, if you train to an isolated spot... so i dont think this argument against it is valid.
All the ideas in the OP are major good fixes. Fixing the claim-loss and bind bug will also go a long way. And like most have said, those damn GM's need to start taking action. Maybe pay them on customer satisfaction rather than # of processed calls...
Im so sick of GMs. I have reported countless bots and cheaters with every ability to actively prove it to the GM, and the GM wont even hear of it, just "We have ways of determining this". Oh yeah, message them and if they reply, they're not bots? thats BS, everyone knows they have auto reply and alarms that call them to the PC when they get a tell. People have lost all faith in GMs. And i know its beside the topic, but GM responses need to be changed bigtime. They need to start banning dammit, SE needs to realize how they're losing way more business from 20 people quitting from frustration, than kicking a single account causing them constant grief.
If i was the type of person to need to MPK, i would do it all day long without fear of GM punishment. Its just rediculous how useless they are. Basically all they can do is pat you on the head and say "there there" or warp you when youre stuck in a bug on a map. I want to be able to rate my GM, and have them fired if too many ppl rate them as not having taken sufficient action. Its so sickening to report a cheater and see them continue to play happily weeks after, when they should be banned outright.
-----------------------
I have to say that a lot of ideas in this thread are so obviously self-serving ideas that have nothing to do with MPK. Example, people asking for monsters to not link to a pull. Come on, that'll not eliminate MPK, it'll elimintae needing brains to pull.
Getting rid of the exp penalty that BST gets with a pet? What the heck? Thats so stupid, then why would a BST even want to get to lvl 35, if we wouldnt need to {Leave} for full exp. Please, stop trying to use this oppertunity for input as a chance to change the game to make your life way too easy. I dearly hope SE has the sense to realize whichof the suggestions are obvious attempts at pacifying the game.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 12:25:59 2005 by RattyBatty
Edited, Sat Nov 5 12:35:41 2005 by RattyBatty
#615
Nov 05 2005 at 12:02 PM
22 posts
How about when Beastmen cast -ga spells they get attacked my mobs, as for the MPK how about leaving like it is ever think about how many people dont want change?
#616
Nov 05 2005 at 12:15 PM
15 posts
make it instant ban. and give the person that was mpk'd the lost exp back. i cant tell you what lvl i'd be if i was nvr MPK'd i'd probly be lvl 70+ in my favorite jobs
#617
Nov 05 2005 at 12:15 PM
Scholar
19 posts
1) Shadowbind/bind has to go.
2) Make the punishment harsh for MPK and when someone is given this punishment make it known. RMT MPK for gil, jail time or down time cost them RL money. There needs to be a place to see these punishments taken effect. As for the non-RMT player that MPK, well I don't think any of them want down time. Problem is we all know we "could" do it and get away with it.
2) Make the punishment harsh for MPK and when someone is given this punishment make it known. RMT MPK for gil, jail time or down time cost them RL money. There needs to be a place to see these punishments taken effect. As for the non-RMT player that MPK, well I don't think any of them want down time. Problem is we all know we "could" do it and get away with it.
#618
Nov 05 2005 at 12:17 PM
22 posts
I guess you suck at pulling then, knowing whats around you, what links and does or does not aggro is just part of the game. I'm down for no change.
#619
Nov 05 2005 at 12:18 PM
*Suggestion:*
When dragoons use hate-shedding abilities, mobs they had hate on should not link with others' mobs, but return to their spawn point.
* *
An alleged gilseller tried to mpk me in Castle Oztroja this way when I claimed Quu Domi the Gallant. He trained about 5 Yagudo on me while I was fighting the nm, and at the time I was low enough that it was a very close call. I was furious and called a GM, but... well.
I think he and his friends camp Amemet now.
#620
Nov 05 2005 at 12:23 PM
Suggestion: My biggest suggestion is to deal with the reasons why people exploit mpk. Altering the mpk system is not going to help anything if the underlying game problems are not remedied first. I think it would actually make things worse in giving gilsellers and monopolizers better reign and control over NMs. From what I know, mpk happens far more often in relation to gaining gil in an over inflated economy than it does from the moron who doesn't know how to play. NMs being the #1 target for mpk problems. Fix the economy (crystals should not break when your crafting over cap!), make a wider range of opportunites/methods to obtain NM drops, and take the general stress and woes out of making the literally billions of gil it takes to get ahead in this game, and I truely believe you will see less mpk. One last thing, please please please hunt down and ban the gilsellers. Their involvement in the ruination of FFXI in combination of no forthright actions against them forces honest plays to feel the need to turn to mpk to deal with the problem.
If push comes to shove and the mpk system has to be changed, I think that xp loss should be set to zero and open pvp or a duel system like in other mmorpgs should be instated. At least then we'd be able to directly settle differences with idiots and gilsellers on our own without GM involvement.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 13:00:07 2005 by HawkPhoenix
If push comes to shove and the mpk system has to be changed, I think that xp loss should be set to zero and open pvp or a duel system like in other mmorpgs should be instated. At least then we'd be able to directly settle differences with idiots and gilsellers on our own without GM involvement.
Edited, Sat Nov 5 13:00:07 2005 by HawkPhoenix
#621
Nov 05 2005 at 12:27 PM
22 posts
I aggree that MPK'n exp parties is pretty low so how about treat that situation as harshly as you do racism, you can tell when it's accidental because most legitimate people will /sh train to zone or somethin you know, so how about those with no respect for others get 2 instances where it isnt legitimate and a GM gets involved and after that no more account, racism is the same 2 instances and your gone. But I will reitterate that im aggainst changing aggro/link relationships in the game.
#622
Nov 05 2005 at 12:28 PM
a thought has crossed my mind..
in addition to my original thought of freezing a player in place to publicly humilate them when they are found guilty of an offense... force them into community service..
let lower level people sign up a list for tasks such as..
their first walk to Jeuno before getting a chocobo license..
or getting their tele-crystals, or even commit them to something as boring or remedial as having to walk around zone's raising people.. Valkurm comes to mind.. can't count the hours I've spent there throwing random cures around and running to raise a fallen player.. or even an occasional warp II or tele.(free mind you... only thing I take pymnt for are tele's when I'm farming gil. Trying to do that whole help thy neighbor thing.)
make sure the "criminal" cannot trade or accept gil or lot on loot or interact with anyone except their "client" and mobs that person may encounter, and x-amount of tasks as opposed to time..when a violater is frozen.. they can choose from a list of services required.. anonymous player names on both ends to prevent later harassment... and when they choose the service they wish to perform warp both players to the "client's" mog house... if the client accepts the service at that time.
after walking a player from Bastok, or Windy all the way to Jeuno to start their leveling in Qufim, or get their chocobo quest accomplished..
force offenders to provide acts of kindness to make up for the "crime" that they've commited..
Make their character unplayable until they have achieved X amount of tasks, or have been frozen in public on display for x amount of time.
This would help lower lvl players, encourage community activity, force them to care for another player.. even for a short while..
might even founder a few friendships.. what a big part of this game is all about..
we "party" together to accomplish a task, and /befriend people we want to get to know, and /alliance ourselves with those we trust, and link up with people with similar interests.. let us not forget that this game is about teamwork, and making new relationships.. too often people are falling into the "me, me, me" attitude and thus begins the cycle leading to MPK'ing..
but give the GM's more power to do things such as this..
and hey.. if PVP is what a player wants.. let them join a server that does nothing but.... mayve you could set up a test server to try it out that would be nice..
in addition to my original thought of freezing a player in place to publicly humilate them when they are found guilty of an offense... force them into community service..
let lower level people sign up a list for tasks such as..
their first walk to Jeuno before getting a chocobo license..
or getting their tele-crystals, or even commit them to something as boring or remedial as having to walk around zone's raising people.. Valkurm comes to mind.. can't count the hours I've spent there throwing random cures around and running to raise a fallen player.. or even an occasional warp II or tele.(free mind you... only thing I take pymnt for are tele's when I'm farming gil. Trying to do that whole help thy neighbor thing.)
make sure the "criminal" cannot trade or accept gil or lot on loot or interact with anyone except their "client" and mobs that person may encounter, and x-amount of tasks as opposed to time..when a violater is frozen.. they can choose from a list of services required.. anonymous player names on both ends to prevent later harassment... and when they choose the service they wish to perform warp both players to the "client's" mog house... if the client accepts the service at that time.
after walking a player from Bastok, or Windy all the way to Jeuno to start their leveling in Qufim, or get their chocobo quest accomplished..
force offenders to provide acts of kindness to make up for the "crime" that they've commited..
Make their character unplayable until they have achieved X amount of tasks, or have been frozen in public on display for x amount of time.
This would help lower lvl players, encourage community activity, force them to care for another player.. even for a short while..
might even founder a few friendships.. what a big part of this game is all about..
we "party" together to accomplish a task, and /befriend people we want to get to know, and /alliance ourselves with those we trust, and link up with people with similar interests.. let us not forget that this game is about teamwork, and making new relationships.. too often people are falling into the "me, me, me" attitude and thus begins the cycle leading to MPK'ing..
but give the GM's more power to do things such as this..
and hey.. if PVP is what a player wants.. let them join a server that does nothing but.... mayve you could set up a test server to try it out that would be nice..
#623
Nov 05 2005 at 12:36 PM
22 posts
Why not {Run Away!} if the mob is bound get a head start to the zone. The easiest solution is do not go afk and pay attention to whats going on around you. oh yeah and {Run Away!}
#624
Nov 05 2005 at 12:41 PM
25 posts
I have been playing for over a year now and usually play daily
People get mad and MPK Because of camps being over crowded. /NM's being over camped and too many trying to get claim for too long and someone else getting one they've been camping for after they just zoned in 1 munite ago. /and of course some other player being an *** and harassing another player/party/alliance.
Please forgive if any ideas are reposts but they are good ideas
Suggestion:
Monster staying claimed: To party/alliance/player until death/warp/zone/charm/tame
Suggestion:
Monster going unclaimed: due to death/warp/zone of party/alliance/player Monster will walk back to Spawn point normal speed without any stopping/pausing and will not aggro or link for 30 seconds
Suggestion:
Beastmaster Leave/Tame monster will not agro/link for 1 munite and will stay in one spot for 15 seconds then walk back to spawn point as normal stopping and pausing
Suggestion:
Bound monsters have more hate to person that bound them and will only attack other party members that have created enough hate through Cures/Damage/Provoke
Suggestion:
Increase EX Items and the Drop percentages of monsters that drop those items and quest items Trying to get a dropped item and then camping/killing it ridiculous amounts of times isn't fair to other players causing them to wait even longer. IE. someone kills it 8 times no drop on the NM's and people that go questing for people to help and kill for hours or even days to even see something like their Papyrus drop so they can break lvl 50.
Suggestion:
More places to Harvest/dig/log/mine in same area /other areas to get same items as current ones
Suggestion:
EXP bonuses for areas that don't get camped often. X amount of time passes since X amounts of partys have been EXPing there when you zone in a system message will tell you how much of an exp bonus you will receive for camping there. If it's camped regularly no EXP bonus.
Suggestion:
Used in FFX A "Monster Arena NPC" that would sell or trade you a Key Item to pop the NM they wanted to kill. You kill it or die from the battle you must go back and buy/trade/quest another key item from that npc. Could also make NM drop a death certificate you have to give back to the Monster Arena NPC to get your reward.
This should kill off quite a bit of bot users
Suggestion:
A NM drop Storage NPC for EX Items you received from killing NM's
Edited, Sat Nov 5 13:00:52 2005 by MrCastle
People get mad and MPK Because of camps being over crowded. /NM's being over camped and too many trying to get claim for too long and someone else getting one they've been camping for after they just zoned in 1 munite ago. /and of course some other player being an *** and harassing another player/party/alliance.
Please forgive if any ideas are reposts but they are good ideas
Suggestion:
Monster staying claimed: To party/alliance/player until death/warp/zone/charm/tame
Suggestion:
Monster going unclaimed: due to death/warp/zone of party/alliance/player Monster will walk back to Spawn point normal speed without any stopping/pausing and will not aggro or link for 30 seconds
Suggestion:
Beastmaster Leave/Tame monster will not agro/link for 1 munite and will stay in one spot for 15 seconds then walk back to spawn point as normal stopping and pausing
Suggestion:
Bound monsters have more hate to person that bound them and will only attack other party members that have created enough hate through Cures/Damage/Provoke
Suggestion:
Increase EX Items and the Drop percentages of monsters that drop those items and quest items Trying to get a dropped item and then camping/killing it ridiculous amounts of times isn't fair to other players causing them to wait even longer. IE. someone kills it 8 times no drop on the NM's and people that go questing for people to help and kill for hours or even days to even see something like their Papyrus drop so they can break lvl 50.
Suggestion:
More places to Harvest/dig/log/mine in same area /other areas to get same items as current ones
Suggestion:
EXP bonuses for areas that don't get camped often. X amount of time passes since X amounts of partys have been EXPing there when you zone in a system message will tell you how much of an exp bonus you will receive for camping there. If it's camped regularly no EXP bonus.
Suggestion:
Used in FFX A "Monster Arena NPC" that would sell or trade you a Key Item to pop the NM they wanted to kill. You kill it or die from the battle you must go back and buy/trade/quest another key item from that npc. Could also make NM drop a death certificate you have to give back to the Monster Arena NPC to get your reward.
This should kill off quite a bit of bot users
Suggestion:
A NM drop Storage NPC for EX Items you received from killing NM's
Edited, Sat Nov 5 13:00:52 2005 by MrCastle
#625
Nov 05 2005 at 12:53 PM
One more thing since this thread has me interested.
In Dynamis Jeuno after the Dynamis boss is defeated I don't know if SE is aware of this but there is a bug that causes a sort of blindness to players still in the zone.
The Glitch as it is referred to by HNM/endgame groups, starts after the Dynamis boss is dead, typically groups run back to the entrance and hide in the moghouse for protection then pull the boss to that area to kill it. After the death the entire zone becomes overloaded with super statues that spawn 6-8 mobs each that are much harder than before.
Although that is intentional what i'm sure isn't intentional is the inability of players to see other members of their alliances, or their Allies. Engaging any of the newly spawned statues is suicide no matter how large your group, the game practically mpk's you right there at a time at which defeat seems the least practical thing.
We can't see anyone around us, I get /assist calls and can't target because I can't /assist what I can't see. This glitch effects Draw distance and targeting, whm's can't land cures and can't see to raise dead comrades. Blm's can't nuke a target they can't see. Please do something about that, in a way you'd be fixing SE's MPK attempts on large groups.
I've lost so much xp to that glitch and even been humiliated as the timer ran out on our hourglass and was dumped dead into the streets of jeuno after we won. That is just wrong, and it's an MPK issue that is on you guys since the glitch has been around since FFXI was jp only.
How about fixing it, you are basically ruining what is viewed as prime farming time, drops are increased, more mobs are out, it's well deserved time for a job well done. Last time my ls did Jeuno we took our time through the zone and killed everything and somethings twice before fighting the boss, which ironicly beating that gets you 20 mins more to farm. Instead we just threw our hourglasses away and left. Fix the glitch please.
In Dynamis Jeuno after the Dynamis boss is defeated I don't know if SE is aware of this but there is a bug that causes a sort of blindness to players still in the zone.
The Glitch as it is referred to by HNM/endgame groups, starts after the Dynamis boss is dead, typically groups run back to the entrance and hide in the moghouse for protection then pull the boss to that area to kill it. After the death the entire zone becomes overloaded with super statues that spawn 6-8 mobs each that are much harder than before.
Although that is intentional what i'm sure isn't intentional is the inability of players to see other members of their alliances, or their Allies. Engaging any of the newly spawned statues is suicide no matter how large your group, the game practically mpk's you right there at a time at which defeat seems the least practical thing.
We can't see anyone around us, I get /assist calls and can't target because I can't /assist what I can't see. This glitch effects Draw distance and targeting, whm's can't land cures and can't see to raise dead comrades. Blm's can't nuke a target they can't see. Please do something about that, in a way you'd be fixing SE's MPK attempts on large groups.
I've lost so much xp to that glitch and even been humiliated as the timer ran out on our hourglass and was dumped dead into the streets of jeuno after we won. That is just wrong, and it's an MPK issue that is on you guys since the glitch has been around since FFXI was jp only.
How about fixing it, you are basically ruining what is viewed as prime farming time, drops are increased, more mobs are out, it's well deserved time for a job well done. Last time my ls did Jeuno we took our time through the zone and killed everything and somethings twice before fighting the boss, which ironicly beating that gets you 20 mins more to farm. Instead we just threw our hourglasses away and left. Fix the glitch please.
#626
Nov 05 2005 at 1:02 PM
If you really want to fix the problem, then fix the reason that people do it. People want the abj from monsters that have insanely long spawn times (12-24 hours) when other abj drop from mobs that pop from ??? up in sky. If you were to make the mobs (King Behemouth and other land gods) a forced pop that you had to farm up pop items from short spawn NM's like you do in sky, a huge amount of the problem would go away. If myself and 20 other ppl in my ls have been sitting in a zone for 3 hours waiting for a spawn only to have it claimed by someone else, why wouldn't I MPK them to get claim? As far as trains to zone's go, how about a invincible NPC at every zone that simply d2's any aggro mob that gets to close to zone.
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